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The Lookout Landing Style Guide

Despite all appearances to the contrary, Lookout Landing actually doesn't mind new posters.  The problem comes when new posters don't understand how we do things around here.  So, consider this a style guide for the newly-registered and first-posting LL person; hopefully these tips will help you become a contributor that brings something to the table, and will hopefully allow your entry into the admittedly high-standards world of Lookout Landing to be as easy as possible.

So, here's the basics - and they're phrased as absolutes intentionally:

1.  If you've never posted here before, always lurk before posting.  The "regulars" at this place have been here a long, long time, and most of them have forgotten more about baseball than you or I will ever know.  I would recommend reading everything (EVERYTHING:  main posts, FanPosts, FanShots, comments, everything) that's written here for 2-3 weeks before posting, and when you do post and/or comment, try to reflect the tone of the posts/comments you've read over the past few months. 

Don't make your first post an insult.  Let people get to know you before you let your inner snark monster out.

You will be OK as long as you, as the new person, don't assume you know more than the people that have been here a long time.  Respect the knowledge that's here, ask questions of it, and don't assume it's wrong because some dude at your office/bar told you that Derek Jeter's the best shortstop ever.  Which leads to...

2.  If you think something that someone said is wrong, feel free to challenge it - but if you do,  do so intelligently, with an argument backed up with more than "YOU SUCK OMG WHAT DO YOU KNOW'.  That approach will get you hounded out of here fast, and not just by the mods.

3.  Don't be afraid to be wrong; most of the non-analysts on here are proven wrong about some of the things they say.  If you are proven wrong, accept it with grace - you don't have to agree with it, but don't start a flame war because someone comes up with a refutation of something you said. 

3a.  Corollary to #3 - There's nothing wrong with being wrong.  Where some new posters have problems is when they don't accept that they're wrong (even when shown beyond doubt that they are, in fact, wrong) and then insist on keeping the argument going, for whatever reason.  Please don't be this person.  If you say things that can be proven wrong, and are then subsequently proven wrong, accept it and move on.

4.  Always use the subject line when making a comment.  Even if it's one word that leads into your post.  There are a few reasons for this, among them being that it makes comments easy to hide if necessary (while at work, some people don't want some of the more...shall we say, expressive images on their monitors for all to see), that it allows for easier moderation of comments, and that it just looks better.

5.  Always format your sentences properly.  "Properly" means capitalized first words of sentences and using commas, correct spelling, and correct punctuation.  It also means using paragraph breaks, so that your long discourse can be readable (this rule may seem overly pedantic, but it's pretty non-negotiable; if it does seem pedantic, you're probably in the wrong place).  It's easy to do, and it makes the place a much better resource.  And, last but not least, absolutely no text-speak.  Among other things, that does include LOL, OMG, and especially +1.

6.  If you post pictures, make sure they're small - large pics suck up resources and cause slow load times for those of us on antiquated work networks.  At the end of an image link, add the text "width-200>", without the quotes.

7.  Don't be lazy in your assumptions.  That guy at the office that told you Jeter's the best shortstop ever?  He's wrong, and anyone on here will point you towards concrete reasons why.  If you make an assumption based on the guy in your office, and are then shown why that assumption is wrong, see #3.

8.  Be open minded about what you don't know.  Be willing to be educated.

9.  When replying to a comment, please use the "Reply" button instead of starting a new comment thread.  This makes conversations much easier to follow.

10.  FanPosts have a minimum word count of 75 words.  If you have something to say in a FanPost, make sure that it contains 75 words pertaining to the topic which you want to discuss - a FanPost should not be "We should trade Ichiro" followed by "75 words" repeated over and over again to hit the 75 word limit. or any other random text as filler after your five-word FanPost.  Make your FanPosts count.  You get one free as a warning, then you're gone.

11.  Dissenting opinions are welcome, and should be encouraged, at Lookout Landing. 

HOWEVER. 

If you have a dissenting opinion, BE PREPARED TO PROVE YOUR POINT.  All-caps yelling and repeated expression of distaste for the people with whom you are arguing do NOT constitute "proving your point".  If you believe in something strongly enough to assert it at LL, be ready to demonstrate why you believe it, be ready to defend yourself logically, and keep #3 and #3a in mind at all times.

12.  Please stay on topic in the baseball-related threads.  There's generally a FanPost created every week or so called OFFTOP or Off-Topic Post Of The Day or some such thing - use those threads to discuss bands, movies, food, beer, anything that doesn't directly relate to baseball.  The off-topic posts are pretty free-form, but there are guidelines as to expected behaviors in this here thread.  Absolute third-rail no-no's:  Politics and religion.  There is pretty much a zero-tolerance policy for those two topics - even in the Off-Topic threads.

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Comments

Display:

Oh, and I've rec'd this fanpost.

I live in georegia but i dont see rusia no where not even sound but they says theres tanks should i be worrie-Yahoo Answers

by Phildopip on Sep 3, 2008 11:38 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't lurk for so long.

People shouldn’t be afraid to post when they want to – just use common sense when posting and follow the simple formatting guideline.

Also:

Beltre is fucking the man.

I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.

by EnglishMariner on Sep 3, 2008 11:39 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think you can post when you have a specific question about something.

I just think it’s best to not show up and try to become a full-fledged member of the community right off the bat.

J.K.L.

by acblue on Sep 3, 2008 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes.

I didn’t lurk really at all. I just jumped in and made myself look like an idiot. I figured I’d been around USSM for at least a year, so I was good to go.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Sep 3, 2008 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I lurked a whole season and made AND ass of myself.

Though I learned to look to see if they are invading before posting on another site, and not to flip out at bans.

I have eight watches. None of them are fake.

by RafaelCarmona22 on Sep 4, 2008 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good work!! It definitely would have helped me if I had had that to read the first day I was here.

I definitely didn’t lurk for 2-3 months before posting at all but I still mostly lurk and am starting to get more comfortable posting. And when I do I am not afraid to admit I am wrong if someone points it out (although in other situations I do not like to be wrong). I still am not a “regular” poster…probably next season haha. (I do lurk everyday)

Another thing I noticed about this community that I dont know if you mentioned is using text-speak or IM phrases such as “lol” are frowned upon. Apparently we like to sound intelligent here.

by Smith18 on Sep 3, 2008 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is there any way to require consenting to these terms during the registration phase?

I could be like those legal terms you consent to when you install new software. I know no one ever reads those, but at least we can say they were warned.

by csiems on Sep 4, 2008 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't specifically mention it

but there was enough about “proper grammar and spelling” that hopefully the message gets through. I could add it, though, if people think it’s necessary.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Sep 4, 2008 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You used 4 twice, ur retarded!

I know baseball, and I know numbrs. You should go back to your mothers bassment.

by marc w on Sep 3, 2008 11:43 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think it's important to note that even if you're wrong, if you try to be rational, we tend to be very understanding

if you think BA and RBIs are a good indication of offensive value, and you use these as evidence, we won’t mock you – we’ll just point you to proof that even something as rough as OPS is much better than BA and RBIs, etc.

by seattlebruin on Sep 3, 2008 11:47 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Unless it becomes a giant recurring theme.

Like for, some, people,,,

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Sep 3, 2008 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll totally mention comma splices.

Learn to use semi-colons, people.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Sep 3, 2008 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Quick rule of thumb for semi-colons!

Both parts can exist as stand alone sentences; Otherwise use a comma. If you want to get crazy technical about it, double space after the semi-colon.

"Have love... will travel." The Sonics.

by dpseadv on Sep 3, 2008 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your browser will automatically only display only one of the spaces.

I pressed the space bar 15 times between the following two words: two words

by Inkara1 on Sep 3, 2008 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That   is   not   always   true

sometimes    you    can    beat    the    system

by Matthew on Sep 3, 2008 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I did not know this.

And I’d ask how you did that, but it probably involves being a coder. Or something very computer literate and technical.

"Have love... will travel." The Sonics.

by dpseadv on Sep 3, 2008 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Obviously.

I'll shut up lest you ban me like you banned butthol.

by NOLAmarinergirl on Sep 3, 2008 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's all about the HTML

I will insert several line breaks below with only the ENTER key.

Now I will do so using the <br> tag:








by Gomez on Sep 3, 2008 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

HTML    is the key.

&nbsp; = non-breaking space

by kericr on Sep 10, 2008 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This will likely lead to more confusion

Like, “How did you get the ampersand to display?”

by kericr on Sep 10, 2008 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which is annoying.

I always double space after a full stop, but browsers never show it.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Sep 3, 2008 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's an MLA/typing class habit I've never let go.

Only for some reason I’ve never noticed they don’t work here. Now I’m going to have to figure out what the
tag is, I don’t remember seeing that mentioned in my computer terms for the computer illiterate book.

"Have love... will travel." The Sonics.

by dpseadv on Sep 3, 2008 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh wow. Cool.

"Have love... will travel." The Sonics.

by dpseadv on Sep 3, 2008 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed, and I'd even go so far as to say that I would welcome slightly more dissenting opinion.

Provided, of course, that said dissent is phrased respectfully and leads to constructive discussion.

J.K.L.

by acblue on Sep 3, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It works, too.

Jeff and I disagreed about Dustin Pedroia’s value.

Jeff held that Pedroia isn’t good, and only looks good because of Fenway.

I held that Pedroia isn’t otherwise good, but Fenway actually makes him good because it suits his talents.

It’s a pretty fine distinction.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Sep 3, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

I keep trying, because lord knows we need more of it (here and USSM), but given the overall philosophical agreement, I’m afraid it might come off as hair-splitting. Still, more respectful dissent!

by marc w on Sep 3, 2008 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Added as #11 above.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Sep 3, 2008 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As well as the "width=200\>" on the image section?

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Sep 3, 2008 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Both will be added shortly.

Couldn’t remember the image thing but now I don’t have to look it up.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Sep 3, 2008 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I use width=150.

So, HA!

I live in georegia but i dont see rusia no where not even sound but they says theres tanks should i be worrie-Yahoo Answers

by Phildopip on Sep 3, 2008 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My img widths go to 211.

This signature space for rent.

by PositivePaul on Sep 3, 2008 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

At least it's only an image+ of 105.5.

Be open minded about what you don't know.

by Jed MC on Sep 3, 2008 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And considering positional adjustment...

…er wait, don’t…

This signature space for rent.

by PositivePaul on Sep 3, 2008 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes yes yes.

I live in georegia but i dont see rusia no where not even sound but they says theres tanks should i be worrie-Yahoo Answers

by Phildopip on Sep 3, 2008 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm

I actually wrote this at one point

by seattlebruin on Sep 3, 2008 1:22 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

This would have been nice to know... yesterday!

The SBN welcome guide is pretty ambiguous, and it’s hard to pick up the sense of ownership regular posters seem to have until you actually start participating. Until then, just reading this it looks like several groups of people that interact primarily with each other with occasional cross over. From the varied look of all the different SBN sites it’s not so easy to pick up on the individual tastes of each teams site.

"Have love... will travel." The Sonics.

by dpseadv on Sep 3, 2008 2:54 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That's the thing, really.

Many of the other SBN blogs have very lax (or nonexistent) standards regarding grammar, and similarly laissez faire approaches to enforcing the code of conduct. It doesn’t matter how smart the posters are, or how insightful/valuable/hilarious their comments are, they’re borderline unreadable. LL is the exception and I, for one, want to keep it that way.

J.K.L.

by acblue on Sep 3, 2008 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This site's a stickler for coherence.

I wanted to codify it as much as possible. One of the reasons this place works so well is that it assumes a base level of intelligence and linguistic proficiency.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Sep 3, 2008 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It isn't so much about coherance or proper sentence structure though.

It’s ability to be receptive. I’m a fairly competent wordsmith, I spent hours doing a couple rewrites on a fanpost. I also have a goofy sense of humor that isn’t for everybody. Now I can see something not being funny for everybody, or even funny at all, but having someone tell me I’m risking being ostracized for a literately adequate post is insulting. You mention new blood and dissenting opinions, but content isn’t so much discussed. Is this site being solely dedicated to math based content, to the exclusion of all else, or what am I missing? If someone doesn’t approve of a fanpost that is competently written and doesn’t contain vulgar or offensive language, then I’d suggest letting it be, and perhaps people out there that do appreciate them will find them. Otherwise your fan base for this site risks becoming static. Or maybe that is desired by the regulars, and I’m not saying that in a derogatory manner at all.

"Have love... will travel." The Sonics.

by dpseadv on Sep 3, 2008 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Defining acceptable content is not my desire, that's a slippery slope

and I prefer to leave that to the community as a whole. My point was to clarify community expectations as regards format and intent.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Sep 3, 2008 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just read the string containing the conversation that led to this post.

Wow that sentence seems convoluted. Anyway, holy Christ on a rubber crutch!!! now I can see where this originated. Good luck with this, but I’m not holding out much hope for you in cases like that one. You can issue a drivers license and people still go 90 mph down a dead end road.

"Have love... will travel." The Sonics.

by dpseadv on Sep 3, 2008 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Two thirds of this is bitching about Field Gulls.

Another rule: Post an OFF TOPIC post and talk about football, be sure to tag it sorry nola.
Just kidding.
Continue with the seriousness.

I'll shut up lest you ban me like you banned butthol.

by NOLAmarinergirl on Sep 3, 2008 6:19 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

True.

I like Field Gulls, and I lurk at many other SBN sites, but there can be only one Lookout Landing, and I am grateful that it covers my favorite team/purveyor of nightmares.

Field Gulls has got its own thing going on. Dig it.

by Omerta on Sep 3, 2008 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No offense to anybody that took part

but would it be possible to hide all the Field Gulls stuff above? I really want this to be a reasonably useful resource.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Sep 3, 2008 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Learn dead memes.

I'll shut up lest you ban me like you banned butthol.

by NOLAmarinergirl on Sep 3, 2008 8:43 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Not entirely true

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Washingtonhighways.org

by I'm NOT Corco on Sep 3, 2008 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorely underused.

"All I’ve ever done is be Juan Pierre when I wear this jersey. They’re sticking it to me this year for whatever reason. "

.277/.324/.316

~Juan Pierre

by Goose on Sep 3, 2008 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I concur

It’s been lost in the shadows since 2005

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Washingtonhighways.org

by I'm NOT Corco on Sep 3, 2008 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looks good

Also, always make sure you know the context of a meme before you try to make a joke about it (unless you’re coach).

by OlSalty on Sep 4, 2008 12:35 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

We can't all be Coach?

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Sep 4, 2008 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can we sidebar this?

Maybe under the wiki?

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Sep 4, 2008 9:36 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You have no shame haha

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Washingtonhighways.org

by I'm NOT Corco on Sep 4, 2008 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm an attention seeking hoor

ME ME ME ME ME!

I feel validated now.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Sep 4, 2008 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll validate you...

15 minutes of free parking as well.

by eponymous_coward on Sep 8, 2008 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is a new blog for SBN where there is some discussion on this topic.

Blog Huddle. Might be worth linking it there, it’s not my material and I’m not a regular, so I wouldn’t dream of it. It’s pretty good stuff and I think it would certainly be a positive for discussion.

"Have love... will travel." The Sonics.

by dpseadv on Sep 4, 2008 9:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure that it's really sbnation-wide appropriate

because LL seems to be pretty much in the minority about most of these things. I don’t want to sound preachy and I certainly wouldn’t deign to tell blogs where I never spend any time (and really, apart from the occasional 30 second glance at Royals Review and DRays Bay, I don’t look at any other SBN blogs) how they should conduct their business; however, if people that post regularly on other SBN blogs want to link to this post to start a discussion that’d be fine by me. Even if you’re not a regular here, if you’re a regular somewhere that might get some benefit out of this, go ahead and link it.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Sep 4, 2008 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My SBN forays are similar to yours.

It reads like a blog for people (especially newbies such as myself) or bloggers in general to touch base and compare some notes. Kind of interesting. I’m thinking of it as a hub to spokes on a wheel. People making requests for alerts to responses on a post or string comment, content guidance beyond ‘be nice’ (made me think of this). Not much content yet so the shape of it is probably building, but then I’m not so sure how much the creators of these blogs get involved in that (hands on I mean). Probably varies based on the personality of the creator? Anyway, thought it might be a use it or ignore it, food for thought, spring board type of material for other blogs. I’m not to big on posting other peoples work, unless it is specifically meant for public consumption, like quoting a journalist or something. Your work meant for this group, do with it what you will, you know what I mean?

"Have love... will travel." The Sonics.

by dpseadv on Sep 4, 2008 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lots of other SBN blogs don't use the subject line, don't require capitalisation, don't harp on spelling and are fine with text speak.

They wouldn’t really appreciate this—I think some of them think LL is a little elitist. So what? We have excellent writers and so they hold the commenters to a high standard. This helps with the flow and helps with communication. It’s what makes LL stand apart and also why we’re the ones who need a style guide.

I'll shut up lest you ban me like you banned butthol.

by NOLAmarinergirl on Sep 4, 2008 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whoa now!

I never accused LL of elitism or commented on low or high standards! There was just a comment on this other blog looking for standards (as to which blog or blogs specifically I don’t know), I was just bringing it to pdb’s attention in a respectful manner. A guy could be an eloquent jerk and use Victorian english, which would be amusing and comply with certain standards and fail others, lots of gray areas when you get into it. But this was written in response to a specific type of post and following exchange. In skimming other blogs similar types of posts seem to be a problem for their communities, despite their differences from LL’s. ‘They’ covers a lot of different SBN blogs, maybe a couple would find this useful, and I didn’t feel it was my place to spread pdb’s work, that’s all I was saying.

"Steee-rike!" cries the umpire, and the westward course of empire flows unchecked. Paul O'Neil in SI.

by dpseadv on Sep 4, 2008 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

.
A guy could be an eloquent jerk and use Victorian english, which would be amusing

I believe this is almost written into our terms of service.

I'll shut up lest you ban me like you banned butthol.

by NOLAmarinergirl on Sep 5, 2008 7:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Victorian.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Sep 5, 2008 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kipling, Lewis Carroll, Bronte. You know, Victorian Era.

Not an intentional reference to Graham. I’m suddenly feeling a ‘whoosh’, as if I have missed the obvious…

"Steee-rike!" cries the umpire, and the westward course of empire flows unchecked. Paul O'Neil in SI.

by dpseadv on Sep 5, 2008 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Close enough.

I'll shut up lest you ban me like you banned butthol.

by NOLAmarinergirl on Sep 5, 2008 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

To clarify point 6, courtesy of Field Gulls,

And PREVIEW PREVIEW PREVIEW!!!!

You might have put a typo in width, you might be stupidly controlling width on a picture that’s more tall than wide (you can use height as a tag too by the way), you might be hotlinking to an image that won’t allow it, whatever. PREVIEW IF YOU USE AN IMAGE!

There’s no excuse. Laziness is not an excuse.

by Matthew on Sep 4, 2008 11:08 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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