The Start He Wanted, And The Start He Needed
One of the downsides of knowing more about pitching than the Mariners is that, as much fun as it can be sometimes to rip into them about Washburn and Silva, I'm also acutely aware of when pitchers I like aren't quite pulling their weight. Armed with a 3.62 ERA and six consecutive quality starts, RRS was probably satisfied with how his rotation stint was going, but his raw performance hadn't actually been very good at all, to the tune of a 1.2 K/BB and a mid-6's tRA. Over his previous three games he'd allowed just seven runs despite walking twice as many guys as he struck out. As much as I wanted to be able to overlook the numbers in this one instance, I couldn't do it, not in good conscience. RRS had been pitching pretty poorly. Worse than Ryan Feierabend, worse than Jarrod Washburn, and even worse than Carlos Silva. Early, limited sample size aside, RRS' audition as a starter was not going as well as I'd hoped.
Thank heavens for tonight. For, tonight, RRS turned in a heck of a game.
It wasn't a dominant start by any means. RRS isn't going to dominate. But then, nobody expects him to. As I think I've said about a thousand times, all we want is for RRS to pitch like a fourth starter, and tonight, he pitched like a little more than that. Not only did he pound the zone with 77 strikes (67%), but he also kept 14 of 22 balls in play on the ground, something I don't think anyone expected him to be able to do when he first made the transition. That he struck out six hitters on top of all that actually reflects a bit of good luck, as he only missed a handful of bats, but his strikeout rate had that good luck coming anyway, and at the end of the night, RRS was staring at a sexy 7/2/1/6 final line. Solid pitching managed to yield him some excellent results, his first excellent results in nearly a month.
RRS' ERA as a starter now stands at 3.34. Unless something unlikely happens, it's funny how myself and the Mariners will take completely different approaches in arriving at the same conclusion.
Mariners:
-RRS has a starting ERA in the 3's
-RRS should be in the 2009 rotation
Me:
-RRS has a starting ERA in the 3's
-RRS' ERA as a starter is actually misleading, and in reality he's been pretty bad
-but has he deserved to be that bad? His ball% and swinging strike rates are fine
-therefore his K/BB as a starter is unsustainably low
-his ball in play profile is fine too
-but it's not, because home runs
-but the home run rate is flukily high and likely to regress
-accounting for probable regression, going forward indications are that RRS will be adequate, regardless of certain results to date
-RRS should be in the 2009 rotation
I'd complain that the Mariners are being too simplistic (and let's face it, that's exactly how they're going to think about this, or if nothing else how the current front office would think about this), but at least they're getting the right answer. RRS deserves to be a permanent part of this rotation. Or in the medium-term, anyway. And I don't much care how he proves it as long as he proves it. I'm just glad he's not mowing people down while getting enough bad luck to run an ERA in the high-Silva's. Given the way the rest of the season has gone, I'm actually kind of surprised that isn't happening.
It's interesting to take a look at RRS' numbers to see just how he's handled the transition from the bullpen to the rotation.
| Starting | Relieving | |
| Ball% | 35.9 | 37.3 |
| StSw% | 7.0 | 10.4 |
| GB% | 43.6 | 32.2 |
As expected, he's missing fewer bats, but this may be at least partially deliberate, as he's also throwing more strikes and generating way more groundballs, suggesting that in the interest of efficiency he's trying to get quicker outs. Which is a smart idea. Had I known that RRS was capable of keeping the ball on the ground at a league-average rate, I'd've been clamoring for this from the beginning. I just had no idea, and it'll take a little PITCHf/x investigating to figure out what he's changed in terms of approach to yield such dramatically different results. Groundball rates don't just change that much on their own. RRS is doing something he didn't do before, and I'd love to be able to figure out what. In the meantime, I'll just be happy that he's no longer using every ball in play to seed the clouds.
I'll cut myself off here. I don't really know what else there is to say. I'm happy to see RRS put up such a solid start against the team with the best record in baseball. I've always imagined that he was better suited as a starter than as a reliever, and my confidence didn't waver during his little recent stretch of mediocrity, but a start like tonight's really serves to boost my faith. The ability is there. Tonight, he showed it in spades. Good on you, RRS. May both yourself and your 70mph lollipop curve be rotation fixtures for many years to come.
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Thanks Jeff.
This is the post I wanted to read, with the stats and evidence I don’t have the experience to collate. RRS looked pretty good in person tonight.
This is where the other people that talk a lot of crap could actually be useful.
Could you imagine yourself with the access Geoff has, and could actually have questions like this asked? Especially instead of the generic “How were you feeling tonight? It looks like you did well.” BS.
Also, this is something that someone with “scouting” experience might be able to look into. Instead of focusing on the assertion that certain pitching motions cause injuries, a look at what could have changed in his motion between starting and relieving could give a clue on what he’s done differently.
But good luck getting past ego and idiocy, unfortunately. Hopefully you can get the info you need from pitch f/x.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
"An ERA in the high-Silva's"
That made me laugh.
The road to hell is paved with Mariners.
by .Taylor on Sep 23, 2008 9:30 AM PDT reply actions
"but at least they're getting the right answer."

(image partially stolen from here)
I thought about that but didn't want to dwell in the negative
not after RRS did really well for once.
by Jeff Sullivan on Sep 23, 2008 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions
We already know most of the good ideas they get come from bad processes
so in a season where so much has gone wrong that you’d think they absolutely have to change the way they go about building a team, I’m just happy when they stumble upon the occasional positive.
by Jeff Sullivan on Sep 23, 2008 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't see how they couldn't
no Bedard + reduced payroll + RRS ERA = near certainty, methinks.
by Jeff Sullivan on Sep 23, 2008 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions
I meant the
“they absolutely have to change the way they go about building a team”
part
Oh, yes.
Well if they don’t, that means they’ll hire somebody stupid, and somebody stupid would be sure to leave RRS in the rotation thanks to his sparkly ERA. So that’s something.
by Jeff Sullivan on Sep 23, 2008 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I meant for my sanity.
I cannot keep rooting for dumb luck.
When it's all you have I think you'd be surprised by the ease with which you acclimate
but yeah, if the offseason spits us out with a retread front office, shit’s going to get real.
by Jeff Sullivan on Sep 23, 2008 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I guess rooting was the wrong word.
I’ll always root for the Ms. But I doubt I’d emotionally invest myself in the team in that case. I’d just treat it like I did the early 90s Ms or the months of June through August before the first overall chase got actually exciting. General apathy. Yay for baseball. The Ms? Meh, not worth planning around.
Not emotionally invested in the early 90's M's? Blasphemy!
A batting title! We won a batting title! We finally finished above .500! A no-hitter!
We were going to be the team of the ’90s, I just felt it.
I was also between the ages of 5 and 10.
I loved baseball, but frankly my hatred for colored pencils and glue sticks occupied more immediate concerns over that timespan.
Those are prime emotional involvement years.
I loved Spike Owen for reasons wholly unrelated to his value as a baseball player.
I thought Mike Moore would win several Cy Young awards, because he won 17 games when I was 8. I was still happy to see him win a WS (and get a big 2b) with the A’s.
"Well, we really liked what we saw out of Estes in the spring"
"Here’s a guy who hasn’t been around the past few years, but worked himself back into game shape and is just putting the ball exactly where he wants to.
Yeah, I know the Arizona air may have affected Ryan’s curve, and I don’t want to use spring training stats as an explanation for this, but we really think he’d benefit by starting in Tacoma to continue to learn the role, and to continue to develop that breaking ball. We believe Ryan’s a part of our future, but we’re not going to just dump Shawn the way he’s throwing right now. We owe it to our fans to put a team on the field that’s in a position to win this division this year, and that’s what Shawn does – he puts us in a position to win. He’ll give Mel a break too, and he can be a sort of pitching coach to the younger guys in the rotation. "
A great start - I was looking forward to this post in the 6th inning last night.
Still, there were a hell of a lot of hard-hit balls last night, including a few on the lollipop curve (Willits single, for one). How many LDs did the PBP have him give up? He had a ton go foul, and I don’t know to what degree that’s a skill or not, but still – the Angels waited on the curve and hit it hard. The great part was watching RRS sneak in fastballs to catch the hitters who were sitting on the offspeed stuff – Chone Figgins, Teixeira – even Vlad.
One of my favorite games in a month – RRS pitched well, I thought Valbuena played solidly, and I knew I’d wake up to a recap of why this was RRS’s best start as a Mariner AND a new Rauuuuuuul gif. It’s not that this place is predictable, it’s that it keeps its promises.
Depending on which source you use, RRS only allowed one or two line drives, as well as a homer
there were a couple well-struck grounders, but if RRS pitches like that 30 times next season, he’s a hell of a value. Obviously.
by Jeff Sullivan on Sep 23, 2008 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Uhhhh....
that’s kind of odd.
Yet again, what we need around here is hit fx.
I would much rather that Mariner analysis than
this one…
RRS’ ERA as a starter is misleading, and has been pretty bad.
Jon Garland’s ERA and peripherals as a starter has been better.
Let’s sign Jon Garland and put RRS in the pen.
Now with 100% more Canuck.

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