Well That Was Weird

by Jeff on Sep 21, 2008 7:09 PM PDT in The More You Know Comment 67 comments

After going over a couple games' worth of numbers, I'm starting to get a feel for how to identify Brandon Morrow's pitches by how they look in the PITCHf/x data. His fastball, changeup, curveball, and slider all have distinguishing characteristics that make them pretty easy to tell apart if you know what to look for.

This afternoon, Morrow threw a handful of pitches that were a little more tricky. Pitches that kind of split the middle between what I'd expect of his curveball and what I'd expect of his slider. Pitches that make me wonder if they were mistakes, accidents in grip or arm action due to underuse. After all, he's still getting accustomed to throwing a bunch of breaking balls, right? It would make sense if he's struggling to repeat the same arm action every time.

Here's what those mystery pitches looked like:

If that's a mistake, then God help the world if Brandon ever gets things right.

It looks to the eye like a curveball, but there are indications in the data that it may have been a slider, or at least had slidey characteristics, so I'm not sure. I'd even be tempted to call it a splitter if Morrow hadn't said a little while back that he hasn't thrown one all season.

Who knows? Maybe it was the curve. Maybe it was the slider. What's important is that, whatever its identity, it looked pretty sweet.

More of these bendy things, Brandon. They make me feel naughty inside.

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Is that a gyro?

by Graham on Sep 21, 2008 7:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

a pita?

a ben franklin?

by mark sobba on Sep 21, 2008 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you saying that because you don't know what a gyroball is?

by Slurvey on Sep 21, 2008 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm guessing no.

MTV Cribs justifies most illegal music downloading.

by Brick on Sep 22, 2008 3:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Possibly

I’m not saying it actually was a gyro, and highly doubt it was intentional if it was, but I think a slider is the pitch that could accidentally be thrown as a “gyroball”, if it’s thrown incorrectly.

by chrisisasavage on Sep 22, 2008 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Since

a gyro supposedly spins along the axis of the pitches trajectory, I think it’d be possible for a slider to accidentally have such a spin. If the pitcher pulls their fingers instead of letting the ball spin off of it, I could see how it could spin along such an axis.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, if you want to see a gyroball like pitch, use a wiffleball. I’m not sure it’d be that easy to throw one with a hardball, but with a wiffle, it’s not hard to get the gyroball spin.

by chrisisasavage on Sep 22, 2008 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Probably not.

Too much vertical break for a gyroball.

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http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting

by Kyle Boddy on Sep 22, 2008 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't understand how that pitch has slider characteristics

From my untrained eye it looks like it breaks straight down

by Fogel on Sep 21, 2008 7:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

And 6 inches towards the RH batter's box

by Graham on Sep 21, 2008 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

So how does that show slider?

by Fogel on Sep 21, 2008 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Horizontal movement.

The camera angle might also be weird

by Graham on Sep 21, 2008 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would say I miss dead center field cam

Except that hey have it in St. Louis and it is sweet.

9=8

by JI on Sep 21, 2008 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

A little bit of horizontal movement in towards the hitter, if you can believe it

also it has certain acceleration and spin properties that aren’t worth getting into. But it’s quite literally right there in between.

by Jeff on Sep 21, 2008 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well I can't believe it and won't

by Fogel on Sep 21, 2008 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't see how the hell that can be breaking towards the hitter unless that's a foul tip

by Graham on Sep 21, 2008 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know what to tell you

Presumably the computers are smarter than I.

by Jeff on Sep 21, 2008 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is why instant replays are bad for baseball

by Fogel on Sep 21, 2008 7:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You'd know this one better than I would:

How far into the strikezone does pitchF/X track?

by Graham on Sep 21, 2008 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The break is 10" and the Pf/x is 4" according to gameday.

But it notes it as a slider and I’m still fascinated by this pitch please be a secret pitch and not a fluke.

by Slurvey on Sep 21, 2008 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I believe it's at the front of the plate

by Jeff on Sep 21, 2008 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

So I guess there are the following explanations for me seeing movement to the right

1) Foul tip
2) Bad camera angle (aka I can’t see)
3) Morrow can throw a pitch that switches break direction while in the strike zone.

I like option 3 but I don’t think it’s right.

by Graham on Sep 21, 2008 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hope it option 3 too.

It looked like a clean miss to me so maybe it’s 2 if not 3 and 1 or maybe it’s a combo of all 3. =o

by Slurvey on Sep 21, 2008 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah there goes my spelling sliding more than this pitch.

I hope it’s option 3 is what I meant to say.

by Slurvey on Sep 21, 2008 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

They would've noted it as a foul tip instead of a swinging strike if it were #1

I think it’s just hard for us to see. It’s kind of moving pretty quick.

by Jeff on Sep 21, 2008 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow look at us we're all admiring a pitch that we don't know what it is.

This is awesome.

by Slurvey on Sep 21, 2008 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or maybe the computer is wrong

by Fogel on Sep 21, 2008 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It might be

what really matters is that this pitch is awesome.

by Jeff on Sep 21, 2008 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wish I could pick this apart frame my frame and show you what I mean

Because to me the ball’s entering the zone on the inside corner and being caught right against the dirt in the middle of the plate.

Not being able to see what’s going on is a pretty reasonable explanation though

by Graham on Sep 21, 2008 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The ball entered the zone almost exactly in the middle of the plate

and if you look at where Kenji catches it and take into consideration the camera angle, I think the inside break is legitimate.

by Jeff on Sep 21, 2008 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll accept that

That angle sure is screwing with my head though

by Graham on Sep 21, 2008 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

From what I can see.

The ball seems to slide toward the right than break down as the hitter swings.

by Slurvey on Sep 21, 2008 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

he didn't release with his

pointer and middle finger on top, they were off to the top right. that’s how the slider gets its cutting movement.

MTV Cribs justifies most illegal music downloading.

by Brick on Sep 22, 2008 3:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even Brandon Morrow's mystery pitch is better than Felix's

by Matthew on Sep 21, 2008 7:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Uh.

That’s some pretty, pretty break.

by BrianL on Sep 21, 2008 7:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Pretty.

Very Pretty.

by Mariner Melee on Sep 21, 2008 7:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Holy shit.

Starting from right in front of the knees, it takes a nasty bite and drops down about a foot. Never thought I’d see a ball start out a curve and end up a slider.

by tyreni51 on Sep 21, 2008 7:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Maybe it's a Slurve!

I does have very erratic movement on it and I think it could be a gyro like Graham says. Whatever it is I like it if it’ll keep doing that.

by Slurvey on Sep 21, 2008 7:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I like this mystery awesome pitch.

Furthermore, I hope Felix takes notes.

by BrianL on Sep 21, 2008 7:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Someone else says throw more bendy things.

“That’s just in the learning process for Brandon,” Seattle manager Jim Riggleman said. “He’s been asked to go out and mix in some changeups and not just throw fastballs. He needs three pitches to be a starter. This was a good game for his development. He needs to build on this.”

by ThundaPC on Sep 21, 2008 8:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

TELL THAT TO FELIX YOU GODDAMN RETARD

by BrianL on Sep 21, 2008 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then why he did start the game off with so many FB?

And yeah tell it the Felix too.

by Slurvey on Sep 21, 2008 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Riggleman managed according to the thoughts he had during press conferences, I would wholeheartedly endorse him.

by Teej on Sep 22, 2008 12:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Except he pulled a Dusty Baker in this game.

by Wilder. on Sep 22, 2008 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Derek Jeter's speech in the last game at Yankee stadium was kinda cool.

Good on you Captain Intangibles.

"All I’ve ever done is be Juan Pierre when I wear this jersey. They’re sticking it to me this year for whatever reason. "

.277/.324/.316

~Juan Pierre

by Goose on Sep 21, 2008 8:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

It's nice that he said something to the fans there.

by Slurvey on Sep 21, 2008 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know the stadium was torn down in the 70s, and I know Yankees fans are generally assholes, but watching the final inning and the following celebration was very cool.

As easy as it is to hate on the Yankees and their fans, I would kill to live in an environment where the local baseball team was that important and that legendary. It’s hard not to be jealous while watching that stuff. I don’t necessarily want Mariner fans to turn into angry, drunken douchebags, but I could put up with that if they came attached to a perennial contender.

And yeah, Jeter’s speech seemed quite genuine.

by Teej on Sep 22, 2008 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The annoying thing about the Yankees

is that they manage to do everything right. Strip away all the press coverage and casual-bandwagoner fawning, and that organization knows how to do stuff like this well.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Sep 22, 2008 6:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hello M's fans

Got my tickets for tomorrows game. Going to be in Seattle for a couple of days. As a Angels fan visiting the Northwest, what should I see and do as a tourist? Going to the Space Needle, and the fish market to see the fish tossing, gonna get some garlic fries at the park, gonna go to Kurt Cobain’s former home. Any other hints? Is it cold up there? Bear in mind i’m from SoCal, what is warm to you, might be cold to me.

YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....

by halofolife on Sep 22, 2008 12:08 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Prior discussions

http://www.lookoutlanding.com/story/2006/7/14/133655/227
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2006/8/1/164929/7267
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2008/7/18/574200/visiting-safeco

The weather: http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/98101?from=hrly_topnav_undeclared

by Matthew on Sep 22, 2008 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you Matthew

Me and my kids should be able to stay busy during our visit, lets hope its a good game(Angels win LOL), should you ever come down here, feel free to hit me up for visitors advice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....

by halofolife on Sep 22, 2008 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Most of us are rooting for an Angels win.

But we root against the use of “lol.”

by Teej on Sep 22, 2008 12:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess if you have never done the Space Needle, you must go.

But let me warn you, it’s pricey and very underwhelming, especially if there is an overcast. I suggest having lunch at the restaurant because then the money you pay for the view go towards some food.

by Wilder. on Sep 22, 2008 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

As do I

Normally I never use terms such as LOL, OMG, IMO, however me and my oldest kid were talking, and I got caught up in the euphemisms and terminology of a 16 year old. Please forgive me. No sarcasm intended, I hate when I speak and talk like that. Just glad alot of you are pulling for an Angels win, been to Oakland and L.A., when the Halos play, L.A. is pretty hostile, Oakland is, well, Oakland is Oakland.

YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....

by halofolife on Sep 22, 2008 12:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

We're quite hostile, too, though. (Well, at least at this blog. Safeco is pretty tame.)

We’re only pulling for an Angels win out of our own self-interest (No. 1 pick). No offense to you, sir, but I think 99% of us pray at night for a spectacular, miserable failure by the Angels in the playoffs.

And as for the "lol"s and other such Internet shorthand, we’re not complete Nazis. We just pride ourselves on a higher standard. I think I speak on behalf of most LLers when I say that that OMG, LOL and other such nonsense is more than just an annoyance. It’s a green light for people to ignore the language and the common customs for gentlemanly discussion. If this were all taking place on a cell phone, there might be more sympathy, but we all have keyboards in front of us. Let us use them.

Finally, instead of posting a new comment every time, check out the “reply” button beneath comments, and use it when you want to respond to a certain comment. (See how this comment is indented beneath yours?) It’s quite an awesome to keep all the conversations threaded.

by Teej on Sep 22, 2008 1:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also,

no offense to your son at all, but now is the time to step in! Teach him the beauty of a comma, of a semicolon, of a quotation mark! Show him the way of the complete sentence, and expose him to all the evil things the comma splice has done to our society!

/editor up way too late

by Teej on Sep 22, 2008 1:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Psst, Teej.

One of the resident women up too early would like to let you know that halo up there never assigned a gender to the kid (or, actually, to his or her self).
Feminist lecture over. Return to your gentlemenly discussion.

I'll shut up lest you ban me like you banned butthol.

by NOLAmarinergirl on Sep 22, 2008 5:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Only men like baseball.

Duh.

by brayden04 on Sep 22, 2008 7:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I realized this after writing the comment,

but figured I had already gone off on enough of a tangent.

by Teej on Sep 22, 2008 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just making sure all lessons were taught.

I'll shut up lest you ban me like you banned butthol.

by NOLAmarinergirl on Sep 22, 2008 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you refering to my inability of puncutation usage?

We need an edit button.

by Slurvey on Sep 22, 2008 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey look, the screwball.

I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.

by EnglishMariner on Sep 22, 2008 4:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

That looks a lot like Carlos Marmol...

who throws a slider very similar to that Senor Ding-Dong’s Doorbell Fiesta mystery pitch Morrow threw there.

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http://www.examiner.com/x-425-Chicago-White-Sox-Examiner

by UribeAuction on Sep 22, 2008 7:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The more I look at the data

the more I think this was meant to be a slider.

by Jeff on Sep 22, 2008 10:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I've always wondered if this sort of pitch was possible.

Breaking pitches spin, and they spin around an axis. But why can’t that axis precess as the ball approaches the plate, thus changes the direction of break as it flies.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Sep 22, 2008 10:29 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Clement would never have caught that pitch

Johjima’s bat has been terrible this year (actually has hit only a litle better, which is sad though) but what with nailing guys trying to steal and his game calling/catching he may be the best opion we have at catcher next season.
That is, if the M’s really want Morrow (and Felix) to reach their full potential.

I wouldn’t be against them bringing in a veteran FA catcher if he was any good though.

by Sam Regens on Sep 22, 2008 10:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs