Pitching Mechanics: Brandon Morrow
Brandon Morrow stands 6'3" 185 lbs and was drafted 5th overall in the 2006 MLB amateur draft by the Seattle Mariners. A RHP, Morrow primarily relies on his plus fastball to get hitters out.
But how are his pitching mechanics?
about 1 year ago
Kyle Boddy
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Considering that his results have been good, I'd say there's a good chance they're fine.
J.K.L.
by acblue on Sep 10, 2008 10:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
For performance? Maybe. Long-term health, though?
Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting
by Kyle Boddy on Sep 10, 2008 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think you can make any assumptions about long-term health based on his mechanics.
J.K.L.
by acblue on Sep 10, 2008 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand.
I respectfully disagree. I invite you to read the analysis and what I’ve put forth if you’re open-minded.
I think there are enough anatomical similarities between humans to draw some conclusions based on physical timing flaws that have some correlation. Research goes on, and my website basically is keeping track of my work.
Do keep in mind that a man with a Ph. D in exercise physiology disagrees with you. I understand Graham has made a very interesting post (and one that I largely agree with, actually) about Biomechanics, and I’ve emailed him to hopefully speak with him at length about the issue.
My hope is that everyone is open-minded enough to read both sides of the argument and come to their own conclusions.
Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting
by Kyle Boddy on Sep 10, 2008 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've read you work, and I'm aware of Dr. Marshall.
I think we can learn things from pitching mechanics, but I don’t think any of them have to do with injury.
J.K.L.
by acblue on Sep 10, 2008 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great!
That is all I ask of people – to come to their own conclusions based on the data we have.
I hope that eventually my work comes to something conclusive about injuries, but if not, I don’t consider my time wasted. My personal history of arm troubles combined with the kids that I coach at the HS level drive me to figure something out about this crazy sport.
Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting
by Kyle Boddy on Sep 10, 2008 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't have data.
You have assumptions.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
by Faux on Sep 13, 2008 3:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's your stance on Kerry Wood or Mark Prior?
If I recall, all the so called experts loved him, including many that followed your revered doctor. He does nothing more than guesswork, just like the rest of you.
Read Graham’s post again, and then explain how exactly you agree with it and still spam this site with your crap.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
by Faux on Sep 13, 2008 3:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was wondering if you could tell me from whence you earned your degree in biomechanics
by Jeff on Sep 10, 2008 10:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I don't have one.
But this guy does. And he happens to form the basis of the analysis I do.
Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting
by Kyle Boddy on Sep 10, 2008 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wrote stuff on theoretical physics.
You should listen to me because I once read Isaac Newton.
by Matthew on Sep 10, 2008 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And yet we don't listen to you anyway
go figure
by seattlebruin on Sep 10, 2008 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
why does anyone listen to your stats if you didn't play the game?
ok, it’s not exactly the same argument, but still…
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Sep 10, 2008 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. Seriously?
I hope this is supposed to be sarcasm.
by Matthew on Sep 10, 2008 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please stop
Did you know that Nolan Ryan blew his arm out to end his career?
Clearly throwing a baseball really hard is dangerous. We all know this. There is very little else that we know.
by Sec 108 on Sep 10, 2008 11:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Please stop?
Clearly throwing a baseball really hard is dangerous. We all know this. There is very little else that we know.
You are correct. Does this mean that we should cease all research into the field, as you indicated by your title?
Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting
by Kyle Boddy on Sep 10, 2008 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a difference between research and this
by Jeff on Sep 10, 2008 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is?
Clearly you think my work is less valid than someone who holds an advanced degree in a biology-related field, and I understand. However, I do my best to read all the journals sourced by ASMI, to continue to work with high-level people at RPM Pitching who do understand joint loads and how to analyze high-speed video, and read as many anatomy texts as I can get my hands on.
For a layman, I do understand quite a bit. I don’t proclaim myself to be an expert, not in the least, Jeff. However, I daresay that the amount of material that I have read and digested goes further than most people in these fields simply because I am able to focus on one area of biomechanics – and that’s baseball.
While I wish you wouldn’t think less of someone simply because he doesn’t have a college pedigree, I unfortunately understand the argument. Still, I submit that the work I am doing does have at least some value and counts as research, even if it doesn’t meet your standards.
Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting
by Kyle Boddy on Sep 10, 2008 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're not trying to bag on you because of your pedigree
in fact, we really couldn’t care less. The point is that up this point nothing conclusive has been found one way or the other correlating pitching injuries with pitching mechanics. That’s not to say there aren’t valid concerns, as mechanics almost certainly influence a pitcher’s chances of getting injured – however, until we know enough to make some sort of substantive prediction it’s a waste of time to argue either way.
Certainly it’s worthwhile to examine a guy’s mechanics and compare him to a “standard” type, and there may be substantive evidence of mechanic’s impact on the flight of a ball (e.g. a guy’s stuff). This alone would make it worthwhile. It’s pointless though to speculate on whether or not a guy will get injured because of his mechanics or for a million other reasons.
by seattlebruin on Sep 10, 2008 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing is you do need a pedigree though
In order to be qualified to even research injury prediction through biomechanics, you need to be proficient in the following (off the top of my head):
Advanced materials engineering
Solid and soil mechanics
Linear algebra
Vector and tensor calculus
Anatomy
If you don’t have a deep, ingrained understanding of all of these things (and if Dr. Marshall understands transversely isotropic poro-hyperelastic material failure I will let Robert bite me again*), you aren’t qualified to even try to offer up and opinion. And if you do (hey that’s me) the opinion you come to is that we can’t predict injuries yet, and won’t be able to for a good length of time.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with looking at a pitchers mechanics and trying to analyse them. What’s wrong is drawing conclusions from them, presenting them as fact, and being treated as an expert when you are in fact not. What current internet mechanical analysis is doing is akin to an engineering technician seeing a forensic structural engineer take soil tests at building collapse sites, deciding that soil tests are the sole reason for the collapse, and starting a website dedicated to figuring out which buildings will collapse in the next 5 years based on the underlying soil conditions.
Except that would never happen because people aren’t dumb enough to believe a lab tech vs. people who actually understand how buildings work.
*Because he hasn’t been academically relevant since before I was born and hey we actually figured out bioengineering since then.
by Graham on Sep 10, 2008 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His delivery is alot safer than Lincecum...
Lincies’ talent is a upside to it though he’s the pitcher that is high risk high reward but it works so well but in the longterm it might end his career.
by Slurvey on Sep 10, 2008 8:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't you realize the huge jumps in logic you are making with statements like this?
>Mariners fans are pinning their hopes and dreams to this kid – and rightfully so. He’ll always be looked at as the kid taken over hometown hero Tim Lincecum, and while his pure stuff might not be as good, it’s certainly not far behind. Unfortunately, there’s a lot to worry about with Brandon Morrow compared to Tim Lincecum - Morrow’s late positioning at footstrike, his “grab” in the arm action which leads to looping, and his poor followthrough combined with a short history of shoulder problems leads me to wonder how well off he’ll be in the 2009 season when he’ll be expected to make a full season’s worth of starts.
Can you provide conclusive, causational evidence that anyone with these mechanics is at a higher risk for injury? If you can’t (and you can’t, because said evidence does not exist) what is the point of this whole exercise? Your conjecture is entirely worthless without it, in fact it’s worse than worthless, because you are negatively stereotyping pitchers with these mechanics and applying labels to them they do not deserve such as “high injury risk”.
Every pitcher in baseball is at risk for injury so it’s stupid to say “look at this guy with these mechanics, he got injured! That must mean anyone with those mechanics will get injured as well!”. Why those people got injured (as far as their mechanics are concerned) is something we can’t say with any certainty beyond that it probably had something to do with throwing a baseball really hard many many times.
by OlSalty on Sep 17, 2008 1:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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