Just go away Carlos
by MFAN on Aug 9, 2008 12:24 AM PDT
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I don't think there is anything to say. You're the one with the 4-13 record and an ERA close to 6.
I understand that Silva is frustrated and maybe what he's saying is true, but it sounds pretty ridiculous after a game in which you gave up 5 runs.
This was my favorite quote from Silva: "Maybe Chief has to go and grab somebody from his neck and throw him into the wall and something's going to change,'' he said. "I'm very close to doing that, so write that down.''
Again, you're the one with the 5.93 ERA, someone should probably throw you into the wall.
Go away Carlos, you can keep the money.
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Seriously...
And the way that Baker is enabling this crap while taking pot shots at Ichiro is really, really annoying.
Fuckin' Richie Sexson man!
Baker isn't "enabling" this crap at all.
He’s merely letting Silva speak for himself. Do you doubt for even a second that Baker doesn’t think this is as hilarious and inappropriate as we do? All he’s doing is acting as a stenographer for Silva’s idiocy, which is his job: Silva’s giving him good (and stupid) copy, he’s publishing it because it’s obviously newsworthy.
"Maybe Chief has to go and grab somebody from his neck and throw him into the wall."
The "ERA is useless" talk can go too far.
When you have an ERA of 6.00 after playing 3/4 of a season, your peripheral stats can’t possibly be good enough to spin that into an acceptable performance.
Shit, I’d put xFIP on the back of baseball cards if it were my decision, but it makes you sound like an asshole (and Dave on USSM does this ALL the time in their comment sections) when you wrongly proclaim that traditional stats are completely removed from reality.
No, it cannot go to far.
ERA is not a good way to evaluate pitchers regardless of how big a sample size you have.
An ERA of 6 means its sucked to watch you pitch
An ERA of 6 and a record or 4-12 means you suck. I don’t need more stats to split hairs to tell me how much he has actually sucked.
by Edgar for Pres on Aug 9, 2008 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Basically the less I think about how good Silva actually is the better I feel
because I want to deny his existence as long as possible.
by Edgar for Pres on Aug 9, 2008 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
My thoughts are...
...that ERA is a VERY rough tool. Stone tools can sorta get the job done, but you relly want precision, machine cast tools…
They're not peripheral.
ERA is peripheral.
by Graham MacAree on Aug 9, 2008 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Rickey doesn't like your attitude Carlos.
You wanna trying grabbing somebody by the neck and throwing them against the wall Silva? Alright, might I suggest Adrian Beltre. Try it, see what happens.
"All I’ve ever done is be Juan Pierre when I wear this jersey. They’re sticking it to me this year for whatever reason. "
.280/.324/.316
~Juan Pierre
"Try it, see what happens."
Silva tweaks his back and Adrian laughs his arse off.
I'm getting this impression that Baker is actually one of the big causes of the "negative" clubhouse.
Sounds like this smarmy reporter is egging on a lot of backbiting and “throwing teammates under the bus” thing. Also giving a ton of biased coverage based on his “favorites” (who often suck btw).
The Mariner team would be better off banning this scumbag and troublemaker Geoff Baker from the clubhouse.
And Silva, just shut yout piehole and go away, you dumbass. Jeez can anybody be dumber than this guy?
Fuck Geoff Baker
/cue people saying “But but, he’s better than any beat reporter we’ve ever had! And he’s learning!”
"All I’ve ever done is be Juan Pierre when I wear this jersey. They’re sticking it to me this year for whatever reason. "
.280/.324/.316
~Juan Pierre
I think I'm off that train.
I still enjoy his stuff on occasion, but he’s been pissing me off a lot lately.
J.K.L.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 9, 2008 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions
He Was Getting Better Again
after beginning this season full to the brim with snark. Once the M’s began to play really badly a lot of his snark seemed to disappear. But recently it is returning and I’m wishing he would just stop with it already.
Baker annoys me
He’s trying to do too much. I appreciate his efforts but he’s become way too involved
Determined, Jonesing Commentor
Literally.
Since he’s the fattest Mariner of all time.
"Hole in one, eh?"
by Coach Owens on Aug 9, 2008 5:31 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you for clarifying; I was having difficulty understanding Alex's comment.
by Graham MacAree on Aug 9, 2008 5:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I liked this one right here:
"Maybe instead of moving a runner, they want to get a base hit just because of the numbers. Instead of to get a ground ball, maybe I want to strike him out because of my numbers, you know what I mean? That’s what we’re doing right now."
Those dirty son of a bitches. How DARE they want to get a base hit! Miserable bastards. And Carlos, quit lying, we all know you’re incapable of striking out anybody.
"All I’ve ever done is be Juan Pierre when I wear this jersey. They’re sticking it to me this year for whatever reason. "
.280/.324/.316
~Juan Pierre
I cant think of an example that relates to that comment..
he’s just making up stuff… using basic general complaints and applying them to this situation.. Dude is just embarrassed that he’s owed 48 million and is one of the worst starters in baseball..
I would love somebody to confront this guy and ask him how it’s his teammates fault when he went out there after we had a short winning streak, and gave up like 9 runs in the 1st inning vs Detroit.
His crybaby attitude would make a little more sense if the M’s were mailing it in. But we’ve just taken 3 od 4 vs playoffs team, and had some of our most exciting wins of the year. Then he goes out and puts the team in an immediate hole.
I hate this guy
If I was a worthless waste of $48M...
you better believe I’d be trying to deflect blame all I could too.
I’d love to have one of the customizable M’s jerseys with “El Gordo Bastardo” across the back and Silva’s number, but I just can’t hope he’ll be on the team long enough to make it worth buying.
Also "The Chief?" didn't we already have one of those?
www.cs.umass.edu/lfw/images/Freddy_Garcia/Freddy_Garcia_0001.jpg”/>
"All I’ve ever done is be Juan Pierre when I wear this jersey. They’re sticking it to me this year for whatever reason. "
.280/.324/.316
~Juan Pierre
Try that again
www.cs.umass.edu/lfw/images/Freddy_Garcia/Freddy_Garcia_0001.jpg”/>
"All I’ve ever done is be Juan Pierre when I wear this jersey. They’re sticking it to me this year for whatever reason. "
.280/.324/.316
~Juan Pierre
What the fuck? That's not how it looks in the preview....oh well you get the point.
"All I’ve ever done is be Juan Pierre when I wear this jersey. They’re sticking it to me this year for whatever reason. "
.280/.324/.316
~Juan Pierre
Not a Fan of Sabermetrics
that Carlos Silva
Not sure how this ended up down here
This comment was supposed to attach to Goose’s quote of Silva.
The problem isn't your teammate' heart, Carlos
The problem is your teammates suck. And you do as well. While you THINK you should be an awesome team if everyone was giving enough effort, the reality is last year’s team wasn’t as good as everyone thought it was, and the roster moves after the offseason (including you) just made this year’s team worse.
Now, go have a donut off the post game spread and STFU, OK?
by eponymous_coward on Aug 9, 2008 9:38 AM PDT reply actions
I bet it is Betancourt who Silva wants to throw to the wall.
The thing that bothers me the most from Silva is the whole pad the stats rant. Who is he trying to call out there? Ibanez? Beltre? Ichiro?
Gotta be Ibanez
That dirty selfish bastard is hitting homeruns and doubles instead of bunting and sac flies.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 9, 2008 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
The padding stats thing is retarded
I can understand why he would be frustrated with the defense, because it does make him look worse than he is (he still sucks though). But most of that rant is just stupidly trying to blame everyone but himself.
I hope he becomes such a “clubhouse cancer” that they jettison him early.
HIs defense doesnt make him look worse..
He stinks. He’s not an extreme ground baller (despite him apparently thinking he is), who is getting hurt by infield defense. He is just a terrible pitcher who gets hit hard, and is looking for any excuse possible, even if they make no sense, to make up for the embarrassment one must have for being paid 12 million per season, and being absolutely terrible
He sucks, but the defense makes him look even suckier
His BABIP against is .332, league average is around .300. So to some degree he’s either a victim of bad luck or bad defense, and my money is on bad defense. Raul Ibanez has been playing in left field.
Even when you account for this, he’s still bad. But he’s less bad than he first appears. As much as he sucks we do have a few defensive black holes out there, and he’s a contact pitcher who relies on defense.
And I'll bet...
...he’s not blaming the people who actually ARE hurting him on defense…(Um, Raul….)
You're somewhat right.
MLB average for BABIP is dead-on .300 this year (though it’s typically more in the .300-.310 range), but you can’t expect a guy like Carlos Silva to play down to that average. He’s a pitcher who gets a lot of line drives, and is an above-average (or even extreme, when he’s at his best) ground-ball pitcher. Line drives and ground balls are the two kinds of ball-in-play results that fall for hits the most, so there’s nothing wrong with expecting a ~.315 BABIP out of Silva.
He is suffering from a little bad luck/poor defense, and his LOB% has been pretty awful too. There’s reason to expect a little bounce-back. With the guys the M’s are going to depend on up the middle for the near future though, I don’t expect Silva to put up league-average numbers while he’s here.
No again.
Silva’s LD rate is roughly league average over time. Expecting a .315 BABIP out of Silva would be wrong.
No to you.
Silva’s LD% is a career 20.1%, though that number has been even higher the last four years. Most of us know that a quick-and-dirty way to find a pitcher’s (or hitter’s) projected BABIP is to take the LD% and add .120.
Given that Silva is an above-average groundball pitcher, and that groundballs fall for base hits more often than flyballs, you can even bump that up a bit for Silva.
Tell me again why expecting a higher-than-average BABIP from Silva is wrong?
Matthew knows better than you you idiot.
by Graham MacAree on Aug 9, 2008 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll wait for you to add something useful to the discussion.
Don’t worry, I’ll give it some time.
But it will be awesome for the rest of us
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
Since you have apparently never read LL before,
I don’t think it will be much of a loss when I get bored of you being a retard and just make you go away.
by Graham MacAree on Aug 9, 2008 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
RTFA.
I would make another bold prediction at this point, except for one caveat. We really don’t know how persistent the ability is among major league pitchers to manage the number of line drives allowed. In fact, the evidence I’ve seen would indicate that, once a major league pitcher reaches the major leagues, his line drive-stopping capability is pretty much the same as every other pitcher’s.In other words, the line drive is usually a result of the batter’s skill, and not a lack of the pitcher’s.
You do not apply the LD -> BABIP to pitchers.
Furthermore, Silva’s LD rate compared to league year-by-year:
2004 – 17.2 to 17.7
2005 – 19.2 to 19.5
2006 – 19.6 to 18.7
2007 – 19.0 to 19.1
In other words, the line drive is usually a result of the batter’s skill, and not a lack of the pitcher’s.
Although LD/BIA’s correlation coefficient is 0.56 or so from the work I did on tRA*
by Graham MacAree on Aug 9, 2008 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I feel like its always a little unnerving when we say we can apply the LD + constant = BABIP
to hitters but not pitchers. Isn’t that a little strange?
by Edgar for Pres on Aug 9, 2008 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not sure we can
I meant to put quotes around my subject line.
by Graham MacAree on Aug 9, 2008 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions
A couple things...
“Bold prediction”=/= conclusive evidence. It’s accepted that a batter has better control over his ball-in-play results than a pitcher, but hardly anyone worth a damn is still in the “pitchers have NO control” camp.
I’ll even accept for you that a pitcher doesn’t have any control over line drive outcomes, fine. I’ll make the leap to accept that, according to Fangraphs (not sure where your numbers come from), Silva’s had terrible luck over the course of 1100 innings. Fangraphs has him at 22.4/18.3/17.9/19.6/22.2/18.8/22.2 from 2002-2008.
Still, you can’t argue the fact that Silva is a groundball pitcher, and will give up a higher BABIP because of it. In 2007 ground balls had a 24% chance of becoming hits, while flyballs had a 15% chance and line drives were at 73%. Based on that, and the moderately shaky ground your “pitchers have NO control over line drives!” line is standing on, it’d be pretty stupid to expect a league-average BABIP out of Silva.
This is sort of like being told how to do structural engineering by a high school physicist.
by Graham MacAree on Aug 9, 2008 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh what is Silva's tRA+ (since I still can't actually look it up anywhere)?
by Edgar for Pres on Aug 9, 2008 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions
explain to me how it's wrong to expect a higher than average BABIP out of Silva...
and I’ll shut up. Tell me how ground balls AREN’T prone to higher BABIP rates, and I’ll be quiet. Until then, you’re just a smart-ass without anything to say worth my attention.
I never said a pitcher has no control over line drives.
I said you do not apply the LD + X = BABIP to pitchers. You don’t. It’s far more of a weak relationship than with hitters and even with hitters the LD + X = BABIP is a very rough guideline.
My numbers come Retrosheet, BIS and MLB.com depending on the year and are lower than yours because I listed line drives over all batted balls instead of line drives over BIP as most sites do.
Silva would be expected to give up a slightly higher BABIP because of GB tendencies if you look over his career. Problem is, he hasn’t been a groundball pitcher this season and even if he still was, expecting a .315 BABIP is way too high of an increase over average.
So getting back to Silva's performance this year
I don’t have the league average GB% for this year but I’m sure Graham and Matthew do. Last year it was 43.6%, so I’ll assume for now that it’s somewhere close to that.
Carlos Silva’s GB% this year is 44.2%, so unless league average GB% is substantially lower this year his babip should not be substantially (or even noticeably) higher than the league average even if we apply your logic. If his high babip is somehow his fault, it’s probably not because of the groundballs anyways.
It’s probably high because the defense behind him is bad, or he’s had bad luck.
Right...but when I first brought this up, we were talking about this year
And he argued that part of his abnormally high babip this year is attributable to him as a pitcher, while only part of it is due to bad luck or bad defense.
He was quite clearly an idiot who'd read a couple of articles on pitching and decided he was an expert.
Yes, GBs get converted into outs less than FBs do, but it’s not a massive effect, or even one that’s manifested itself over Silva’s career. BABIP is far more defence and LD dependant than anything else.
by Graham MacAree on Aug 9, 2008 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions
No, no, no, Carlos.
You have it wrong. You’re not the Chief. You’re the
THIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEF!
My layout.spellcheckDefault goes to 11
Carlos Silva is Carlos Silva
But what worries me is that Baker seems to buy stuff hook-line-and-sinker (no pun intended) from veterans, especially the guys who aren’t good.
Many of you will laugh at Silva and accuse him of making excuses for his poor record and ERA. You would be dead wrong. Silva is the last guy to make an excuse for a poor performance. He isn’t saying anything that others haven’t mentioned privately throughout the season. He’s just the only one with the guts (and maybe the size) to say it in public. Put it this way, as he spoke, Felix Hernandez, a guy who’s pitched pretty well this year, was standing about two feet to Silva’s right listening to every word and smiling.
Of course in the audio, Silva clearly says this is not about his performance, but come on. The team is currently 4-4 on the homestand, 3-2 against contending teams. The day before Silva’s start featured a walkoff homerun by Raul Ibanez capping a pretty festive evening.
Suddenly a guy who’s only seen one win since April and currently leading the AL in losses (13) goes off on his teammates?
At least Washburn has the personality to go with his mediocrity. Silva’s just a grumpy jerk.
Exactly..
I could see if this rant came in the midst of a 10 game losing streak. But it isnt. I is coming during a stretch where the team has shown life and is playing hard. A 10 run inning vs Minnesota the other night. A comeback win the other night, capped with an Ibanez walk-off.
As I said before. This is the same guy that after the M’s were on a small hot streak. Came home to face Detroit, and got battered for 7 runs in the first 15 minutes of the game.
Here's what bugs me about this so much
Until Silva loses 40 or so pounds, he has no grounds to criticize anyone about their effort.
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
Looking at this picture...
I think Adrian should wear goggles for safety just in case one of those lower buttons pops off screaming toward third base like a rifle shot.
Riggleman's response is up, over at Baker's blog
and it’s freakin awesome
Riggleman highlight
“It’s almost like these blanket statements are made, and the perceptions are because you’re losing, you’re doing these things wrong. What it really comes to is we, like most teams, we take care of the little things. It’s big things. We’re not hitting good enough and we’re not pitching good enough. If somebody wants to hide behind, ‘Oh, we made a baserunner mistake or we didn’t move a runner over,’ ... and use the word selfish, you can try to act like, ‘That’s the problem right there. That will make up those 30 games.’ But, you know, you’ve got to hit better and you’ve got to pitch better.“When you’ve got something to say, don’t use the newspaper to say it.”
Riggleman is not my favorite manager but he won me over a little today.
Then there's this...
The one thing he was talking about, not using ground balls to move the runner, we’ve done a great job of that. But again, anytime you’re not successful at doing that, it’s the intent that you have to question. And I know the intention has always been to do that, but sometimes you don’t get the result. I know guys have always tried to do that, and sometimes you’re not successful doing it. You don’t intend to give up base hits and walks, but you give them up.
What is he even trying to say here?
But he was talking about moving up the runner
Was he saying that a walk or base hit is a bad thing when you’re trying to advance the runner?
Most of Riggleman's response is about Silva's comments, but this quote was great:
“One of the things that happens is there’s a lot of cliches in the game, and every team that I’ve ever seen that struggled, people will say they don’t do the fundamentals, they don’t bunt runners, they’re not hitting behind the runner to move runners over, they don’t do this, they don’t do that. You hear enough of that, and you look at the numbers, and you find out you’re right there where everybody else in baseball is in sacrifice bunts, advancing runners, and the fundamentals of the game.“It’s almost like these blanket statements are made, and the perceptions are because you’re losing, you’re doing these things wrong. What it really comes to is we, like most teams, we take care of the little things. It’s big things. We’re not hitting good enough and we’re not pitching good enough. If somebody wants to hide behind, ‘Oh, we made a baserunner mistake or we didn’t move a runner over,’ ... and use the word selfish, you can try to act like, ‘That’s the problem right there. That will make up those 30 games.’ But, you know, you’ve got to hit better and you’ve got to pitch better.
I actually made this face when I read Riggleman's statement.
Smart statements by members of this organization are few and far between. I’m happy t hear it.
J.K.L.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 9, 2008 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I totally missed that Thunda posted this above me.
But mine has an extra paragraph of Riggleman goodness, so I don’t feel so bad.
Wow, Riggs
Good on you. I still don’t like most of your in-game decisions, but that was awesome to read.
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