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It occurred to me earlier that I've been saying "it occurred to me" a lot lately. It also occurred to me that, were it not for this website, I would've long since moved on from the Mariners and found something better to do with my time. I mean, take a game like today. Last place M's. Last place O's. No Felix. No Bedard. Plenty of Silva. Why bother? Why, on a gorgeous Sunday afternoon, would anyone in his or her right mind stay inside to watch this? Those of you who did that very thing - you guys are crazy. I mean, sure, it's baseball, and there were a handful of interesting players in the lineup, but while both baseball and Clement will still be there tomorrow, Sunday will not. Congratulations. You just wasted a chunk of your weekend watching a bad team defeat a bad team. If any friends or coworkers ask what you did today, you should probably lie to them.
Biggest Contribution: Jose Lopez, +16.1%
Biggest Suckfest: Carlos Silva, -11.6%
Most Important AB: Lopez funk blast, +19.7%
Most Important Pitch: Millar single, -15.8%
Total Contribution by Pitcher(s): -2.1%
Total Contribution by Lineup: +46.2%
Total Contribution by Opposition: +5.9%
(What is this chart?)
- Eight grounders, nine fly balls, eight line drives. Carlos Silva may very well be having the worst season of his career. In the first season of his four-year contract. You think it's bad now? I can't even begin to explain how bad it could be come 2011. A guy who's made a living off of standing near the cliff seems to be inching closer and closer to the edge with every passing start, and what's worse is that there's nothing we can do about it. We're locked right in to this toboggan ride to hell, and the only possible upside I can see is that we'll no longer get duped into saying "at least next year's team won't have this year's team's black holes," because one of those black holes will be Carlos Silva, and he's not going anywhere.
Fasten your seatbelts and put on a helmet. This bacon flume is just getting started. - Jose Lopez hit his ninth home run today and raised his OPS to .756. His strong 2+ weeks since the All Star Break have gone against his usual pattern of starting hot and ending cold, and considering how difficult it is for a player of his skillset to succeed in this ballpark, his progress hasn't gone unnoticed. Ever so slowly, it's beginning to look like he's finally delivering upon the raw talent we've always known he has.
Of course, we're faced with an interesting question. Lopez is a talented 24 year old putting up a career-high .756 OPS. One's first inclination is to assume that he's only going to get better as he approaches his 27-30 peak, thereby turning into one of the more productive second basemen in the league. However, his Marcel projection is a boring .277/.316/.401, dragged down in large part due to Lopez's awful, awful 2007. So which is it? As nice as it would be to ignore 2007 completely and focus on what Lopez has done for the past four months, that's not how this stuff works. We need to look at the whole picture, and the whole picture has as many valleys as peaks.
I'd love it if Lopez were turning a new leaf before our very eyes, but ever cautious, I remain unconvinced. The memories of seasons past still just linger too vividly for me to forgive and forget. He needs to keep this up for another two months, then he needs to keep it up again, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's put his hard times as far behind him as we'd like to think they already are.
Sure is good to see him actually hitting, though. It'd be nice if one of our young middle infielders actually panned out and turned into something worthwhile. God dammit, Yuni. - A year ago, 26% of JJ's fastballs came in at greater than 97 miles per hour. This year, he's down to 3%. The velocity isn't back, and the fact that JJ's started mixing in the occasional (bad) curveball suggests that he's trying to find other routes to success, because his normal one isn't working. And that makes me nervous, because if JJ's deviating from his usual gameplan, that speaks to a lack of confidence in both his stuff now and whether or not his stuff will return.
I'm not going to get ahead of myself. JJ's still trying to find himself after an up-and-down four months, and he's earned our patience. But if we're waiting on JJ before allowing Morrow to start getting stretched out, then I hope you're not in a hurry, because, to me, JJ's still got a ways to go. Funny how his season has basically mirrored the team's. - Why does it sound like the Mariners are basically taking it for granted that Morrow will make an easy transition? I've got news for you guys: moving to the rotation isn't as easy as taking a guy's bullpen ERA and adding a few tenths. There's a lot more to it than that. Like, say, being able to control an offspeed pitch so lefties don't just stand there and kill you. It's one thing to be confident in your high draft pick, but it's quite another to assume that he can get himself ready essentially overnight. The whole Morrow treatment isn't something teams normally do. We don't know how it's going to go. You'd think the team would want to be a little more conservative in its estimates. But anything to generate buzz, I suppose. God knows there's little else keeping people interested.
- By answering a Bryan LaHair walk with one of his own, Yuniesky Betancourt was able to keep the gap between their season BB totals steady at two. Bryan LaHair has played 14 games.
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Hrm.
It’s one thing to be confident in your high draft pick, but it’s quite another to assume that he can get himself ready essentially overnight.
And when he can’t do it overnight, they’ll lose confidence in him and make it even harder to succeed….
by rtang on Aug 3, 2008 7:27 PM PDT 0 recs
Also interesting:
They seem to be taking it for granted that JJ will get himself right soon enough to let Morrow quit closing and get stretched out.
What if JJ doesn’t get himself right?
Does this team ever consider the downside of stuff, or do they see everything as sunshine and lollipops?
by Jeff on
Aug 3, 2008 7:29 PM PDT
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In a sick way this is making me feel better about selecting Fields with our first pick.
by BrianL on
Aug 3, 2008 7:35 PM PDT
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by the time he's ready he'll have to prove that he's worthy
of taking the closer’s role away from Morrow.
by katal on
Aug 3, 2008 7:38 PM PDT
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I hope that's a rhetorical question
For being such a consistently awful team, they’re quite confident arrogant.
by katal on
Aug 3, 2008 7:37 PM PDT
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It depends on the subject
Some players in their eyes will never amount to crap, whether because of their talent or their character.
by Gomez on
Aug 3, 2008 7:44 PM PDT
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Looks like Soriano's injury prone again though.
Not that I’m defending that [COATHANGER} trade.
by Mariner John on
Aug 3, 2008 8:24 PM PDT
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The real question is what is the definition of "getting himself right"?
- Larry Stone @ Baker’s blog
“To be able go out and execute the split today was a very, very big step,’’ Putz said.“I think today was a really big step in making that decision (to put him back at closer) easier for them,’’ he said.
If they’re working to get Putz back in the closer’s role so that Morrow can be stretched out to start it sounds like they’re going to do it real quick….like within the next two outings quick.
by ThundaPC on
Aug 3, 2008 10:48 PM PDT
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I love the Silva picture..classic.
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Aug 3, 2008 7:46 PM PDT 0 recs
No, no, I watched it.
But then, I had a reason to. You crazies didn’t.
by Jeff on
Aug 3, 2008 7:50 PM PDT
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It angers me that they think Morrow's transition will be a cakewalk
Because I can’t help but think….Is this the reason they’ve waited so long? Because they think it will be easy? What leads them to believe this? The comparisons to RRS’s transition are completely unwarranted and it just makes me thing they’re still completely incompetent.
There isn’t enough time left in the season to really test his value as a starter unless they do this immediately, and even then it is probably not enough time…..and yet they wait for J.J.. It’s infuriating.
by OlSalty on Aug 3, 2008 7:54 PM PDT 0 recs
I think I'd rather see them shut Morrow down for the rest of the season
then send him to Venezuela to start.
by BrianL on
Aug 3, 2008 7:59 PM PDT
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I would too
Venezuela would show us absolutely nothing, he completely outclasses any competition there.
by OlSalty on
Aug 3, 2008 8:01 PM PDT
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I'm concerned about next June.
The M’s seem pretty cavalier about his arm, if he pitches in winter ball… I just don’t expect good things for his health next year. After reading a paper on the M’s record with pitchers and their health at USSM recently, I’m concerned. Putting it mildly.
by dpseadv on
Aug 3, 2008 9:06 PM PDT
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Joba
Is why they think this will be easy
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
by Sportszilla on
Aug 3, 2008 10:20 PM PDT
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Whatever. At least they're open to the idea of trying.
For once their stupid pays off in the right decision!
by Matthew on
Aug 4, 2008 12:08 AM PDT
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Yep.
I wish they were being smarter about this, but really, why be bummed? They might be going about this the wrong way, but at least they’re going about it.
J.K.L.
by acblue on
Aug 4, 2008 12:31 AM PDT
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Why?
Why, on a gorgeous Sunday afternoon, would anyone in his or her right mind stay inside to watch this?
Going outside between the hours of 2pm and 6pm requires a portable AC unit, 3 litres of water and the willingness to be dehydrated for the next two days. If I told any of my coworkers that I passed my Sunday afternoon in a way that did not involve a siesta, daiquiris and/or sports, they would wonder exactly what lies I was covering up.
I would do cartwheels over my name written in sand
by NOLAmarinergirl on Aug 3, 2008 8:10 PM PDT 0 recs
NOLA has JItis
The Jose Lopez Watch - 129 H, 16 BB, 57 G Left
by seattlebruin on
Aug 3, 2008 8:25 PM PDT
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Update those stats already. Penultimate fan? I think not.
by Susheel Ramasahayam on
Aug 3, 2008 9:41 PM PDT
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In my defense I've been drunk, hungover, or about to get drunk for the past 72 hours
The Jose Lopez Watch - 134 H, 16 BB, 51 G Left
by seattlebruin on
Aug 3, 2008 9:50 PM PDT
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What is Carlos Silva's tRA right now?
His FIP is only at 4.41, which is right around his career average, though his performance seems to be much worse. I don’t know what FIP’s flaws are, but it’s hard to believe he’s pitching at his career average even with our awful defense.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Aug 3, 2008 8:17 PM PDT 0 recs
I went to the game, so that's my excuse
Although the Dave tribute with special guest appearance by Edgar was awesome.
by Mariner John on Aug 3, 2008 8:26 PM PDT 0 recs
I was nursing a crippling hangover that would have killed a lesser man
A public health note: if you’re at a barbecue, and don’t feel like drinking beer/cider because you’d had too many of those Friday night…at said barbecue, after consuming several (rather tasty it must be said) Manhattans, if somebody gives you a glass full of something yellowish with fruit floating in it, and you say “what’s in this”, and they say “I dunno, but there’s lots of alcohol in it and it tastes really good”, you may want to say no thanks and switch to Corona or another light, buzz-maintaining lager instead.
This sensible thing which I describe? Nope, I did not do it. Thus, I have spent most of today on the couch, watching the TV and cursing the fact that my hair seems to make a noise equivalent to the reverse thrusters on a fighter jet every time I move on the couch.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Aug 3, 2008 8:59 PM PDT 1 recs
That last sentence was one of the best things I've ever read.
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Also, I'm always down for some online Grand Theft Auto IV or Rock Band. Gamertag: Phildopip
by Phildopip on
Aug 4, 2008 7:34 AM PDT
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I'm glad something good came out of that mess
I’ve never wished for death before, but yesterday came close. The only thing I could consume yesterday was Gatorade. Feeling much better today, though.
Note to Coach, if you’re lurking: Yes, it was worth it. I had a blast. No, I didn’t drive.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on
Aug 4, 2008 9:48 AM PDT
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I couldn't even get excited for a Felix start the other day.
God I hate this season.
One Vision, One Purpose
Peace Through Power
by Goose on Aug 3, 2008 9:37 PM PDT 0 recs
I usually get my money's worth with MLB.tv.
This year is an exception. I could probably count how many games I have watched in the last month on one hand. Felix is the only reason to watch this team and he hasn’t been great lately either.
by Wilder. on Aug 3, 2008 10:15 PM PDT 0 recs
Here's my problem with Felix Day
While the potential reward is substantially higher than the average game in this snoozefest of a season, the potential for anger/disappointment is also proportionally higher. When anyone else on the team plays poorly, I can shrug it off. When Felix does, I break things.
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
by Sportszilla on
Aug 3, 2008 10:22 PM PDT
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Triunfel's stealing ability
Probably should have put this in the minor league wrap up, but too late now.
I noticed Tri stole another 2 bases tonight. That brings his season total to 28. Does anyone know if he has strong baserunning abilities, rather than just raw speed and the advantage of running on poor catchers’ arms?
by Fuckmikereilly on Aug 4, 2008 12:53 AM PDT 0 recs
Triunfel
Is an excellent athlete. He does not having blazing speed, but he projects to swipe some as he grows, matures, and climbs the ranks.
Its very much a combination of agressiveness, athletic ability, and poor catcher’s arms. He is also quite baseball-smart, so im sure he is taking advantage by picking up little things and milking them.
Unless he gets fat or something, he should be good for 15+ SB by the time he heads to the majors, but until his body grows out completely, the projection will differ from person to person. I do follow the minors heavily, particularly the Single A teams.
by Slica on
Aug 4, 2008 5:42 AM PDT
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From another point of view...
Jason Churchill, who I do trust in regards to scouting, says Triunfel ‘isn’t quite the overall athlete ARod was’, has above average speed, and rates his Speed/Baserunning as 55/65.
A scout he talked to claimed Triunfel is a ‘beast’ but isn’t quite the ‘premium athlete’.
Differeing perspectives, as its hard to project him clearly until he climbs a bit higher…
by Slica on
Aug 4, 2008 5:54 AM PDT
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This is why I went to play with godson today at the park instead of putrefying my eyes with Mariner baseball.
wlad for president '08
by wongguy on Aug 4, 2008 2:20 AM PDT 0 recs
I had a dream that Vidro hit 3 homers in a game.
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Also, I'm always down for some online Grand Theft Auto IV or Rock Band. Gamertag: Phildopip
by Phildopip on Aug 4, 2008 7:35 AM PDT 0 recs
Will Thompson is the coolest
And deserves a rec for that comment…
My layout.spellcheckDefault goes to 11
by PositivePaul on
Aug 4, 2008 12:16 PM PDT
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I'm not incredibly worried about Lopez.
It’s not all that unusual to come up at 20 and spend a few years being pretty bad. The important part is the “come up at 20” part- as long as you aren’t completely overmatched by the league.
One thing I wonder about is if Lopez would become the 3B if King Awesome got traded. That seems the most likely course of events to me, since Lopez is a bit marginal at 2B.
by eponymous_coward on Aug 4, 2008 9:41 AM PDT 0 recs
Triunfel should very well be the 3B in the long term. Id be shocked otherwise...
by Slica on
Aug 4, 2008 10:06 AM PDT
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If Beltre leaves, that could well be the path
Triunfel still needs to refine his defense, though.
by Gomez on
Aug 4, 2008 10:09 AM PDT
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Well, I suppose you COULD package Lopez in a trade.
That being said, Truinfel’s in A ball. Maybe he shows up in 2010, but maybe not.
I wonder if Lopez would have good trade value at this point (especially packaged with one of our overpriced arms whose deal expires after 2009, Washburn or Beluga Tits), and you could eke out 2009 with Tug Hulett at 2B or something.
The problem is the Mariner farm system really doesn’t have much surplus talent in the high minors post-Bedard. Thanks, Bill!
by eponymous_coward on
Aug 4, 2008 11:34 AM PDT
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Luis Valbeuna
wait, what am I saying? No, fuck that, NO TRADING LOAFIE!
I think he’s fine though – 2006 was his first season in the bigs, so it’s not unreasonable that pitchers just figured him out the second half of the season and he got tired from playing a longer schedule. In 2007 he started hitting poorly right in the middle of June – way before the break – through June 13 he was hitting .290/.332/.430 and then hit .226/.245/.303 from there on out. I think there’s reason to believe that Lopez had very off second halves for a reason in his first two seasons in the bigs, and that 2008 is a new leaf for him.
Also, he’s hit the ball hard all season this year, as his above average .217 LD rate can attest to. I think it’s only a matter of time before he starts hitting for the power we know is in him too – plus Safeco isn’t exactly helping since he’s a dead pull righty.
The Jose Lopez Watch - 134 H, 16 BB, 51 G Left
by seattlebruin on
Aug 4, 2008 12:08 PM PDT
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BTW, since I forgot to mention it, June 13 was the date of his brother's accident
The Jose Lopez Watch - 134 H, 16 BB, 51 G Left
by seattlebruin on
Aug 4, 2008 12:10 PM PDT
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Well...
It’s not that I think Lopez should get run out of town on a railroad ala Carlos Guillen. More that the M’s are going to need holes fixed in a lot of places, and Lopez has value as a young player with upside who isn’t saddled with a large contract that could be used to add talent in other places on the roster.
Yes, the Mariners NEED these kinds of players, but they also need improved infield defense something fierce, as well as other holes patched, and I don’t think Yuni gets you much value in trade now that he’s in the middle of such a bad year, and really, a lot of our trade chips have various problems:
- JJ’s been injured
- Washburn and Batista suck
- Beltre has a rather large contract, even if it’s for one year
- Johjima really sucks
- Ichiro is arguably most valuable as a Mariner, plus has a huge contract
Really, if I was doing the cynical Billy Beane thing, I’d be seeing what I could get with Lopez as part of a package that lets me dump some salary and brings a prospect or three back. Certainly don’t give him away, but he’s arguably the closest thing we have to replaceable talent that could fetch a decent return.
by eponymous_coward on
Aug 4, 2008 12:38 PM PDT
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Well yeah, of course, from an unbiased POV that makes sense with Loafie
I just think that 2006-2007 is entirely plausible given what he went through and like not at his true talent level. I’d much rather hope for a rebound from Yuni or JJ to put into a deal, someone who really is replaceable – by Josh Fields for JJ or whoever the fuck you want to run out there for Yuni.
The Jose Lopez Watch - 134 H, 16 BB, 51 G Left
by seattlebruin on
Aug 4, 2008 12:41 PM PDT
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Oh, I agree.
The problem is that during the offseason, I don’t think JJ gets anywhere near what you’d get if he was healthy in 2009 and you traded him at the deadline (see: Rhodes, Arthur). Yuni’s also kind of damaged goods at this point.
by eponymous_coward on
Aug 4, 2008 12:52 PM PDT
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Lopez doesn't have the power to play 3B.
"Hole in one, eh?"
by Coach Owens on
Aug 4, 2008 12:01 PM PDT
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Let Wade Boggs know about that, while you're at it.
This is as dumb as saying Ichiro doesn’t have enough power to play corner OF.
Also, Lopez is 24. He’s likely to keep developing.
by eponymous_coward on
Aug 4, 2008 12:28 PM PDT
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No, Coach is right - Loafie doesn't really profile as a 3B
offensively or defensively. Yeah, of course you can try sticking him there, but that means you probably have to take another light bat to play at 2B unless Triunfel can stick there (which doesn’t make sense since you’d probably be better off with Loafie at second and Triunfel at third anyway)
It’s really helpful to have a power guy playing third since that’s typically one of the places you can put him on the infield where a bigger guys lack of speed doesn’t destroy you on defense. Plus, specifically with Lopez, I’m not convinced he has the arm to play third.
The Jose Lopez Watch - 134 H, 16 BB, 51 G Left
by seattlebruin on
Aug 4, 2008 12:31 PM PDT
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Well, Lopez isn't really situated to play 2B.
Your choices are really seeing if he can gun it at 3B, or moving him to 1B/corner OF, where he’d really have to crank it to be a productive player.
I think Lopez will turn into a .290/25/not many walks kind of player at his peak. That’s fine at 3B. Hell, that’s basically Adrian Beltre.
by eponymous_coward on
Aug 4, 2008 12:46 PM PDT
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Lopez will never be the defensive player Beltre is, though.
J.K.L.
by acblue on
Aug 4, 2008 1:09 PM PDT
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Lopez was average to above at 2B until this year.
He’s fine at 2B.
by Matthew on
Aug 4, 2008 2:12 PM PDT
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Boggs is an exception.
Look at the good third basemen in baseball. At least ~85% of them are or used to be big power guys.
"Hole in one, eh?"
by Coach Owens on
Aug 4, 2008 1:39 PM PDT
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