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Around SBN: Jeremy Lin And How The Pac-12 Missed Him

Dead Horse 2: Pitching Through Injury

This started as a game recap to take place of Jeff's usual recap and then I just kept going on my first bullet point to the extent that it morphed into its own feature-length post

Miguel Batista took the mound last night and immediately showed his renewed health by tossing fastballs in the high 80s. Last season, 14.9% of Miguel Batista's pitches had a start speed of 93 mph or higher. This season that number is down to 9.2%. Combined with his always troubling walk rates, Miguel Batista is either finished or injured (could be both) but one thing for sure is that for now he is ineffective.

Mike Blowers brought up the matter in question on the post-game, calling Batista's continued pitching through adversity a good quality, one which is to be admired. He even named Batista as the star performer last night over someone more qualified (Beltre, Ichiro). To add to our dead horse pile here on Lookout Landing, this is total frak. Personally, I think it's a byproduct of trying to cross-apply traits from other sports to baseball. Gritting it through injury can be beneficial in more team-dependent sports where such behaviour can inspire teammates to give more effort. In a sport like football (either one) or hockey, that's useful because effort actually means something. In baseball? It's highly marginalized.

Furthermore, as Jeff has many times pointed out, it's damaging to the team's overall talent level. While a hitter can play through minor injuries without impacting the team too much, a pitcher is a lone representative on the mound. If he sucks, he makes the team worse and markedly so. People would like to hold it up as a virtue, that the player is mentally tough or that he wants to win so badly that he's willing to play through pain. But here's the thing, baseball is a team sport and if the player wants the team to win so much, then he should be looking for the best opportunity to help get those wins whenever possible and that means recognizing when you yourself are costing the team those wins.

Now, I don't deny that major league players want to win and want it badly, but at the same time, I'd like to propose a motivation for this behavior that I feel weighs on their actions as well: the fear of being replaced. Nobody wants to admit that they are slipping, that they are worse now than they used to be. People generally only grudgingly admit that there are people better qualified than themselves. I don't blame them for this, it's a survival instinct and it's rooted deep in our genetic profile.

I suspect that rooted in every top athlete's psyche has to be the fear that if they sit down for an injury and open up playing time to someone else, that someone else might prove to be better than he is and the athlete might lose his spot. It's an understandable fear, anyone who's played sports (which includes myself) can empathize with it, but let's call it for what it is at a base level, selfish. No matter the motivation (most players probably want to keep playing in order to contribute to the team's winning, a noble goal) the player is putting his own interests (continued playing) ahead of what might be best for the team overall.

Our culture seems to have a fetish for people that try valiantly against long odds, no matter the outcome. And we view players that don't exhibit that drive on the surface as weak-willed or uncaring. We hold up our Rudys and our Willie Bloomquists as examples of ideal work ethic while spending disproportionally little time acknowledging the greatness of the Alburt Pujols  or deriding the Erik Bedards for saying that they're hurt when people like Bedard and Pujols work just as hard as people like Willie Bloomquist. I don't propose to have a solution, or even to presume to call it a problem. I just want people to think more critically and not accept the media's portrayal at face value. Don't accept mine either. This is how I view it, nothing more or less.

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…I’d like to propose a motivation for this behavior that I feel weighs on their actions as well; the fear of being replaced.

should be

…I’d like to propose a motivation for this behavior that I feel weighs on their actions as well: the fear of being replaced.

good article

by great gonzalez on Aug 26, 2008 11:26 AM PDT reply actions  

I think it's a backhanded compliment.

When one writes well, it’s easier to spot the little mistakes. Plus it fit with the elite snobbery discussion.

I'll shut up lest you ban me like you banned butthol.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on Aug 26, 2008 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

And misused semi-colons need to be corrected.

It’s a pretty poncy puncutation piece in the first place. Misusing it makes one look like a total poser.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Aug 26, 2008 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, semicolons are like "whom"...

…if you aren’t absolutely certain of the correct usage, don’t use them at all.

by great gonzalez on Aug 26, 2008 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or you could just learn how to use them.

“Whom”, especially, isn’t hard. It’s an object.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Aug 26, 2008 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah...

“Learn how” to be “absolutely certain” :)

Your sig is hilarious.

by great gonzalez on Aug 26, 2008 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also...

…I didn’t mean “whom” is hard, just that misusing it looks pretentious, and it’s way better to just use “who” if you aren’t sure.

by great gonzalez on Aug 26, 2008 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

While I'd like to agree, I work with people whose entire job is to know grammar, punctuation, etc.

And I’d say half of them know how to use whom properly. It’s just one of those things I don’t think a lot of Americans were taught at a young age. It’s hard for people adopt it later in life.

I think whom will be obsolete in a few decades anyway, so whatever. I won’t mind seeing it die.

by Teej on Aug 26, 2008 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Perhaps one day the Hollywood image of a ballplayer will disappear.

Perhaps people will call out pitchers who play through pain and realize that light-hitting, mediocre players don’t deserve the praise that has been heaped on them. Maybe then people will realize that “padding stats” actually benefits the team as a whole.

Until then, I’m stuck listening to Blowers spew off that shit.

by BrianL on Aug 26, 2008 11:36 AM PDT reply actions  

A great way to sum it all up.

Furthermore, Jeff is selfish for not admitting he’s injured in the best interest of himself for continued writing time. He has a fear deeply rooted in his genetic profile that Matthew will replace his writeups.

Needs MORE SUCK -- Strasburg '09!

by Double06 on Aug 26, 2008 11:37 AM PDT reply actions  

We're experimenting with roles over the final five weeks since it's a lost season.

We might get some young kids some playing time, and try to build toward next season as we face a winter of change.

by Matthew on Aug 26, 2008 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh God

you’re going to trade me, NOLA, JI, seattlebruin, and Robert to another blog for a single blogger, aren’t you?

by BrianL on Aug 26, 2008 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

You forgot Fogel.

I'll shut up lest you ban me like you banned butthol.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on Aug 26, 2008 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

What would this place be like without us?

I'll shut up lest you ban me like you banned butthol.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on Aug 26, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Quiet?

I'm The Alaskan, and I approve this message.

by The Alaskan on Aug 26, 2008 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not just a sports ethic, however, to work through pain.

It’s reflected in people’s inability to stay home sick from work, or take a vacation, or even take a lunch break. Anything along these lines is a weakness, and US culture demands strength at all times.

We want results now, hence, continuing to do our jobs even when weakened. We fail to look to the future and acknowledge that perhaps healing will make us better long-term. Instead we want whatever we can get in the moment. In this way, is it really surprising that Mariners are playing through pain?

I'll shut up lest you ban me like you banned butthol.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on Aug 26, 2008 11:38 AM PDT reply actions  

Surprising? No.

But it’s no less infuriating to me. And you’re right, it’s a rampant cultural trait that permeates many areas.

by Matthew on Aug 26, 2008 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

As cultural traits go, it's remarkably beneficial

So it doesn’t work so well in baseball…. meh.

by marc w on Aug 26, 2008 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

See, I would disagree.

I think there are many chronic illnesses that go along with working too hard, at a stressed out level. In addition, it affects social relationships and family life. To say it’s a positive cultural trait is not necessarily the case.

I'll shut up lest you ban me like you banned butthol.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on Aug 26, 2008 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

So many undefined terms, so little time.

Are you really advocating that people shouldn’t work if they’re not ‘feeling it’ on any given day? If not, then what’s ‘working too hard’ and who gets to quantify it?

People not coming in to work because they heard it was going to be cold or because they have a lot going on right now affects a hell of a lot, including the social relationships of their colleagues. How do you weigh that against the incremental utility gains from only working when you really want to?

by marc w on Aug 26, 2008 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think you took my comments and went to an extreme that I certainly was not aiming for.

But I don’t want to go too far down this road, as it is Matthew’s post and he’s asked us to tread lightly.

I'll shut up lest you ban me like you banned butthol.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on Aug 26, 2008 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm sorry, I cannot see the infuriating without the use of capital letters.

You’re going to have to spell it out for me.

I'll shut up lest you ban me like you banned butthol.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on Aug 26, 2008 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also

Workplaces and peers tend to look down on those who take time off to heal up. Some people have sick-time that’s respected, but most don’t, and most Americans would find their jobs threatened if they called out sick for a single day.

by Gomez on Aug 26, 2008 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

That sounds like hyperbole, but look at it the other way

people who take lots of sick leave at the first sign of a sniffle really are bad for organizations. Taking the ‘pitching through pain is bad for your career’ axiom in baseball and using it as a way to indict work ethic doesn’t make sense.

by marc w on Aug 26, 2008 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Actually, I'm not deriding it

I’m just illustrating the perspective from which we get the ‘players that don’t play through pain have girlparts’ mindset.

by Gomez on Aug 26, 2008 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Heh.

I was told that if I didn’t take my days off, I would be reprimanded.

This after two years, and only taking days off for my dad’s funeral.

Unfortunately, I like my job a lot more than the rest of my life.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Aug 26, 2008 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not really.

A lot of my job involves long running projects, and dropping everything for a few days knocks me off my stride, and getting caught up is harder than just gritting through a couple weekends a month.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Aug 26, 2008 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

OK well...

…I’m certainly not going to tell you how to do your job (between projects, maybe, tho?), but it is generally true that humans do their job better if they take regular time off. Even relatively infrequently.

by great gonzalez on Aug 26, 2008 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Same at my office.

If I show up sick, I’m in trouble.

by BrianL on Aug 26, 2008 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's part of the problem.

I don’t get sick. Haven’t had anything but allergies for as long as I can remember. My work lumps vaca and sick days together, and so I end up with 19 days + ~14 comp travel days at the end of each year. If I called out sick every once in a while, all the days added up at the end of the year wouldn’t look so bad.

The only reason they are pushing the issue is they got worried when they saw the fact that I was opening the building I was at last year at 0430 and closing it at 2200 for all of Q4.

Personally, I think it’s stupid. I’ll work as long as I have the energy, and I prefer to. I don’t expect it out of anyone else. If I felt overloaded, I would have taken a day off, or worked the set hours and let someone else close shop.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Aug 26, 2008 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

We used to get 14 days vaca.

And the “Honor System” for sick days. It only took one person to ruin that.

It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray

by Faux on Aug 26, 2008 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

My company just calls them "personal days"

so really it’s like having extra vacation, except they don’t get mad if you enter your time after the fact

by seattlebruin on Aug 26, 2008 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yet so is having to use all your vacation time as sick time when you have a genuine medical condition.

Requiring all vacation time to be gone before extended sick leave is used screws you over. Then when you go to actually use a vacation, there’s nothing there, and you have to take unpaid leave.

I'll shut up lest you ban me like you banned butthol.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on Aug 26, 2008 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

When I worked at Fry's I wasn't even told I got vacation time

And when I quit they mentioned how I just forfeited it all.

by Robert on Aug 26, 2008 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

My brother worked at the Sears automotive department

and was fired for attending his own high school graduation. Despite a three month advance notice.

by BrianL on Aug 26, 2008 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Man alive

Some employers are generous and flexible, and some are just fucked-up-stubborn against time off.

by Gomez on Aug 26, 2008 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was my brother's first job, and he was pretty upset about it.

Told him he was better off elsewhere, because an employer who does something like that is just going to screw you at every opportunity.

by BrianL on Aug 26, 2008 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes

Things like this show you who isn’t worth working for.

(Sadly, my mother stayed with the casino, as she didn’t have any other recourse. She’s still there, and they pay her far better than she’d make anywhere else)

by Gomez on Aug 26, 2008 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Western culture values effort over contribution.

Aside from promoting mediocrity, it also prevents us from measuring contribution effectively because people will try to incorporate effort into that measure, which is both unknowable and irrelevant.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Aug 26, 2008 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Replacement Level Blogger

I’m the replacement level blogger they fear. I’m here. I’m a grizzled vet among the Mariner bloggers.

And I have admin privileges. I’m Matthew’s worst nightmare.

by Steve Nelson on Aug 26, 2008 12:02 PM PDT reply actions  

Bah? Replacement level?

I can find better talent over the waiver wire.

by BrianL on Aug 26, 2008 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Than Steve Nelson?

Bite your tongue, you know not of what you speak.

by Graham MacAree on Aug 26, 2008 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

There's one.

I'll shut up lest you ban me like you banned butthol.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on Aug 26, 2008 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

No...

…as in: I should capitalize “lol”?

by great gonzalez on Aug 26, 2008 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, I get it, but that's not correct.

Also, original post references the “related links” in the original post, which includes “erik bedard is a manly man even though he speaks french”, which I thought was very funny.

by great gonzalez on Aug 26, 2008 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would like to take this opportunity to point out that I am not always against people playing through pain

Playing through pain is only bad if it (A) makes you worse than your replacement, and (B) jeopardizes your long-term health.

Batista pitching through pain was stupid because hurt Batista (and even healthy Batista) are unthinkably horrible. Beltre playing through pain is not stupid because he is not putting himself at further risk and he is still light years ahead of who would take his place.

by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 26, 2008 1:16 PM PDT reply actions  

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