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Around SBN: Knicks Beat Lakers With Familiar Strategy

46-80

Right. Whoops.

Not very long ago I endorsed RA Dickey as a candidate for the 2009 rotation, the idea being that he (or RRS, or Morrow, or some other low-cost scrub) would be able to slide into Jarrod Washburn's slot and provide similar ability for a fraction of the price. It was all part of my theoretical plan to cut costs where possible so that the organization could spend money to patch its biggest holes.

Well, a good chunk of time has passed since then, and while I'm all about giving Dickey more chances to right the ship over the rest of this dismal season, it's looking more and more like he just doesn't have what it takes. Like the only substantial difference between him and any other AAAA starter is that he chooses to allow his hits on a different pitch. A novel process is cool and all, but "novel" doesn't automatically mean "good", and at the end of the day, if the process doesn't work, it's generally time to look somewhere else.

Dickey is as novel as it gets - already a knuckleballer, he throws harder than any other primary knuckleballer in baseball history (I think), which makes him truly stand out from the crowd. But while this is all kinds of fascinating, his results blend in with the wrong kinds of names. His walk rate is high. He hasn't missed many bats. He hasn't generated many groundballs. He hasn't prevented line drives. He's been up and down as a starter, but the overall picture is one of a wreck, with today being just the latest car in the pileup. It hasn't been encouraging, to say the least.

Tim Wakefield is the default gold standard for knuckleballers, since he's the only other one for whom we really have a lot of information, and while it's probably unfair to compare Dickey to a group of peers with an n of 1 (so, group of peer), the numbers do not compare favorably.

-Wakefield is better at preventing solid contact
-Wakefield's knuckler has more variation in movement
-Wakefield's knuckler misses more bats
-Wakefield's fastball misses more bats
-Wakefield's knuckler finds the zone more often

And so on and so forth. The only clear advantage Dickey has over Wakefield is in generating groundballs, but that isn't nearly enough to make up for his other deficiencies. He's a worse pitcher, and the evidence that we've collected to date would suggest that he's rather significantly so.

In theory, Dickey is amazing. The idea that a guy can come at you with a butterfly and then follow that up with something in the mid-80s sounds like a sight to behold. But in reality, it hasn't worked that way. His fastball's been all right, but it's a contact pitch, as batters have only swung through 14 of 483 fastballs all season. And his knuckler has - to put it bluntly - been all over the place. It's gone for a strike on fewer than 56% of occasions, which is the same rate with which Brandon Morrow threw strikes in the first half last year (the first half in which he walked 33 batters in 32 innings). That's bad. That's bad command. And it's not like it's been a particularly effective pitch when it's found the zone, either; the line drive rate against Dickey's knuckler so far has been 20%, and it's missed a slightly below-average number of bats. Dickey is a knuckleballer, yes, but this fact is only of interest if his knuckleball does what previously successful knuckleballs did in their respective heydays. So far, Dickey's has not. It's just been a mediocre pitch that takes a more scenic route to its destination.

All of this is subject to small sample size variation. All of it. You'd probably be surprised how little a single season really tells you about a guy's true talent level. For this reason I'm not yet prepared to surrender all hope of Dickey becoming an effective pitcher down the road. But my optimism is a fraction of what it was when he first joined the organization, because all year long the question has been "to what do we regress Dickey's performance?", and so far the evidence suggests that just because he's a knuckleballer in the Major Leagues doesn't mean we should regress his performance to those of other knuckleballers in the Major Leagues. To do so gives Dickey the benefit of the doubt that his knuckler is on the same level as those of other guys who built a career around the pitch, and I'm not convinced that it is. We already know it's not on the same level as Wakefield's. Why should we believe that it's on Charlie Hough's, or even Steve Sparks'? That's kind of like regressing any lefty who throws a bunch of changeups to Jamie Moyer. God knows how many farmhands we went through proving that one wrong.

I don't know. It's impossible to say with any degree of certainty to what we should regress Dickey's performance, since the velocity with which he pitches as a knuckleballer makes him the rarest of the rare. Maybe the velocity makes him more subject to the same rules as everybody else. Maybe the velocity makes him better and his results so far are an anomaly. Maybe the velocity means nothing and he really should be compared to the other knuckleballers who've made it this far. I'm not sure. I don't think it's possible for anyone to be sure. All I can say is that, as much as I'm rooting for Dickey, and as much as I'd like to see him succeed, for 100 innings he's been bad, and I'm no longer particularly fond of the idea of letting him compete for an '09 rotation spot in the hopes he gets better. I'd be happy to keep him in the bullpen for continued monitoring and extra flexibility, but as a starter, I'm not sure anymore that his ceiling is really high enough to justify the risk. He needs to demonstrate more ability than he has all season, and now he's running out of time to open more eyes.

R.A. Dickey is, was, and will continue to be an interesting idea. But, like so many other interesting ideas the Mariners had coming into 2008, this one just hasn't worked out. Congratulations, R.A. I guess that means you belong.

8_20_08_medium

Biggest Contribution: Ichiro, +4.2%
Biggest Suckfest: R.A. Dickey, -35.5%
Most Important AB: Ibanez DP, -9.7%
Most Important Pitch: Pierzynski double, -9.2%
Total Contribution by Pitcher(s): -38.1%
Total Contribution by Lineup: -11.9%
Total Contribution by Opposition: 0.0%
(What is this chart?)

We're so bad.

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Here's the issue with Dickey's fast knuckler

The knuckleball gets its unpredictable movement from interacting with air currents between the mound and home plate. The faster the ball is moving, the less time it gets to do so, the less it ultimately moves, the less it fools batters, and the less effective the pitch is.

Wakefield’s knuckler moves great because he throws such a slow one. But Dickey actually has battled, since he picked up the pitch, with throwing the knuckler TOO hard, since he’s not giving the pitch enough time to interact with air currents before it gets to home plate, which makes it nothing more than an off-kilter suck pitch. Despite consistent efforts on his part to take some heat off of it, Dickey’s knuckler still moves too fast to be effective.

by Gomez on Aug 20, 2008 10:10 PM PDT reply actions  

Here's the weird thing

earlier today I would’ve agreed with you, but I went through all the PITCHf/x data, split Dickey’s knucklers into <70mph, 70 < 75mph, and >75mph, and it turns out that – at least so far – his fast one has been the best of the bunch.

Fast: 57% strike, 8% SwS, bunch of grounders
Medium: 57 strike, 8% SwS, low grounders
Slow: 52 strike, 4% SwS%, low grounders

His LD% is elevated on the fast one, but not by a large enough gap to make up the difference.

I’m beginning to suspect that Dickey’s knuckleball just isn’t very good. Regardless of how fast he throws it.

by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 20, 2008 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Interesting finds

That’s certainly a possibility. It’s a relatively new pitch to him and he picked it up late in life. Most pitchers who pick up the knuckleball late in their careers find little success with the pitch, because it takes so much work to master, and time/energy that an older pitcher doesn’t have as much of. There’s probably a low ceiling for how well he can throw it at this stage in his career.

The following isn’t anything more than a random idea off the top of my head, I admit… but he’s pitched as a knuckleballer predominately in two MLB parks: Rangers Ballpark and Safeco. Rangers Ballpark, of course, is a launchpad, and the air is generally hot, somewhat dry, and not that windy unless there’s a major storm coming into the DFW area. Safeco’s jet stream typically has the wind coming in from left field… which would have the wind coming over his right shoulder and blowing somewhat with the pitch towards home plate. As a knuckleball works best when it’s thrown into a prevailing wind, and worst when it’s thrown with the wind at the pitcher’s back… it could be possible his knuckler is affected by environments ill suited for the knuckler.

That’s honestly nothing more than an idea and would need more research on my part to confirm/deny it.

by Gomez on Aug 20, 2008 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's only made two starts in Arlington as a knuckleballer

The first was April 6, 2006 when he gave up 6 HR in 3 1/3 innings against Detroit. That was his last appearance in a Rangers uniform. The second was the July 31 start this year when he held the Rangers to two runs and one HR in 7 2/3 innings.

Every other start he made for the Rangers in any park was as a regular pitcher; the July 31 start was the first time he had ever pitched in Arlington as a visiting pitcher. Since conditions play more of a role with the knuckleball than any other pitch, that’s an important distinction. Safeco is the only field in which Dickey has had more than two appearances as a knuckleballer.

by Inkara1 on Aug 21, 2008 12:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Good to note

I just threw it out there because I knew he took up the knuckler while still with the Rangers org.

by Gomez on Aug 21, 2008 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

To the numbers!

Fast
pfx_X: -1.7
pfx_Z: 0.8
StDev movement: 5.6

Medium
pfx_X: -2.4
pfx_Z: 1.7
StDev movement: 6.0

Slow
pfx_X: -1.2
pfx_Z: 1.8
StDev movement: 5.1

by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 20, 2008 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Graham's right, of course

the faster an object travels through a fluid, the more turbulent of a wake it leaves behind.

My theory would be that the faster he throws the knuckleball (e.g. he hasn’t completely mastered the pitch yet), the more it spins, and obviously the more it spins, the less it moves.

Don’t ask me to reconcile that with Jeff’s pf/x data, I really don’t know why the slow one would move less

by seattlebruin on Aug 21, 2008 6:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

This was my first Mariners game.

Not exactly the best experience, but I guess I shouldn’t have expected much better.

by BoUW on Aug 20, 2008 10:43 PM PDT reply actions  

That should get the attention of Armstrong and Lincoln

They need to make sure the fan experience is golden, regardless if the team sucks.

JI/Robert '08!

by Fin on Aug 20, 2008 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

True, but in this case

all they were responsible for was the on-field product. Not their fault that US Cellular is not a great place to watch a game. I’m probably just spoiled by Miller Park.

The best part of the game? A kid next to me tossed a ball to Washburn and then asked him to give it to Ichiro and have Ichiro sign it.

by BoUW on Aug 21, 2008 6:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Worst case scenario

he’s decent long reliever

Not too bad for free.

by JI on Aug 20, 2008 11:06 PM PDT reply actions  

He'd better be on the team next year, my GF bought a Dickey jersey.

And I want to go to a game with a hilarious, “My chickey loves Dickey” sign with her.

by Smegmalicious on Aug 20, 2008 11:15 PM PDT reply actions  

I love the little jump at the beginning of the WE chart..

It’s like.. Oh! Maybe… wait, that’s right, this is the Mariners. annnnnnnd WE plummets

by seattlesundevil on Aug 20, 2008 11:18 PM PDT reply actions  

Heh.

You could read this as “annnnnnd we plummets” like some sort of horrible lolcat speak.

I live in georegia but i dont see rusia no where not even sound but they says theres tanks should i be worrie-Yahoo Answers

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Aug 21, 2008 7:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

That was the jump from pitch one, I think.

And then came the abyss.

Finally, some recognition.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on Aug 21, 2008 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Fun Facts

- Mariners have to go 17-19 to avoid losing 100 games.
- This team is tied with it’s 2004 counterpart after 126 games. That team went on a 5-game winning streak followed by a 6-game losing streak before finally playing .500 ball.
- September baseball sees this team facing Yankees x3, Texas x5, and LAnaheim x8. Given that there’s nothing on the horizon that can give this team some renewed energy holy crap we’re gonna lose over 100 games.

by ThundaPC on Aug 21, 2008 12:03 AM PDT reply actions  

We can't possibly be worse than the Nationals.

Maybe if we could possibly underachieve its possible, and keep playing Bryan Lahair.

JI/Robert '08!

by Fin on Aug 21, 2008 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

SMOKE EM INSIDE

POUND THAT BUDWEISER MICROBREW

by Gomez on Aug 21, 2008 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

We've lost nine of our last ten games

and the Nats have still gained a game on us in the race for the top draft pick.

by katal on Aug 21, 2008 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Along with it
“Our baseball people have made the decisions they’ve made, which is why we’re in the fix we are, and we’re addressing that with the search for a new GM and everything else.”

Darn those baseball people! Let’s get some people in here who aren’t of the baseball type!

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Aug 21, 2008 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

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