No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No
UPDATE: Larry Stone's source says that no Washburn/Bonser deal was ever discussed. And yet it's funny how, when you get down to it, that doesn't change a thing. If true, Bonser-specific points in this post are invalidated, but the argument stays exactly the same.
I don't know who Joe Christensen is but this is why sometimes people want to shoot the messenger.
The minute the Twins made the claim, they could have been stuck with the contract. That’s about $2.55 million for the rest of this year and another $10.35 million for next year.
...But that wasn’t enough for the Mariners. They are convinced Washburn has value on the trade market. The Yankees were willing to take the contract off their hands in late July, but the deal fell through because the Mariners wanted talent in return.
I received indications that the Twins offered Boof Bonser.
...
Oh no. I have indications the Mariners insisted on getting one of the Twins’ current starting pitchers. Yeah, like Nick Blackburn or Kevin Slowey. That, friends, is sheer lunacy.
Boof Bonser is a 26 year old righty with two years of service time and a career 4.70 tRA that's 5% above the league average. His 2008 salary is $0.4325m and he won't be eligible for free agency until the winter of 2012. Evidently the Mariners came to the conclusion that, in exchange for Washburn, he wasn't enough.
To summarize, Bonser:
-is better than Washburn
-is younger than Washburn
-is cheaper than Washburn
-is under team control for longer than Washburn
And somehow we were the ones to turn down the deal.
I'm not sure what the Twins were thinking here. I guess they're so desperate to fix their bullpen that they want to bump one of their starters to relief for the stretch drive. That's dumb, but whatever. What's important for the Mariners is that the opportunity was there to get rid of Jarrod Washburn, and the organization didn't seize it, because they believe that a fair price for Jarrod Washburn is somebody better, cheaper, and younger. Well, no, scratch that - Bonser is already better, cheaper, and younger. So they believe that a fair price is somebody even more better, cheaper, and younger. You know those stupid posts you'll see on message boards all the time that consist of ideas like "hey we should trade Richie Sexson for Joba the Yankees need a first baseman"? You know how you just skip over those comments and roll your eyes in disgust? The Mariners are trying to make that sort of thing a reality. And - surprise! - other teams aren't having it.
This isn't about having to pencil Washburn into the 2009 rotation. There's still a chance that the front office will be able to get rid of him over the winter. But
(1) there are far more #4/5 starters available for low cost during the winter than during the summer, and there's less desperation in the market
(2) in what ought to be a winter of change the last thing a new front office needs is to have to deal with a problem for which we already had an obvious and easy solution
(3) apparently this organization doesn't believe Washburn is someone you just give away
Yesterday this team made a horrible, unjustifiable decision. And whatever happens with Washburn from this point forward does nothing to change that. I don't care that there still exists some sliver of hope that we'll be able to get rid of him over the winter, because while that's a valid point, we could have gotten rid of him yesterday and never had to worry about him again, and we didn't. Yesterday, this front office was faced with the question "do you believe Jarrod Washburn is a $10m pitcher?" and their answer was yes. Actually, by turning down a deal for Bonser, their answer was "we believe he's worth quite a bit more than that." Jarrod Washburn.
Those of you who didn't think this was so bad - do you get it now? Do you get that this is as much about philosophy as it is about execution? Yes, the Mariners may still get rid of Jarrod Washburn during the winter, but every indication is that, despite mistake after mistake after mistake, this organization still doesn't have a clue how to evaluate pitching. Not a clue. They've learned nothing from Washburn. They've learned nothing from Batista. They've learned nothing from Silva. Nothing. They have learned nothing. This is our team.
Stupidity compounded by arrogance is among the most destructive forces on the planet.
0 recs |
152 comments
Comments
God damn it.
Didn’t you feel better believing the reporter was making shit up? I did.
OK – we know that this action is pretty impossible to justify, but we also know that LP is just sitting in the desk for a while. An empowered GM – ANY empowered GM – makes this trade. Yes, even Krivsky.
I’m still not sure if this particular case is a talent evaluation issue or if it’s more like organizational chaos. It’s not at all clear who’s doing what, or who’s empowered to do anything. That doesn’t make this feel any better, but it makes me hope that this particular form of clusterfuckery may be short-lived.
We need to get a real GM, and then hopefully the bad men will stop with the stabbing.
by marc w on Aug 15, 2008 11:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This may very well be the most important offseason in Mariner history.
I’m scared. Hold me.
by Jeff on Aug 15, 2008 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny how the last two offseasons were kind of the same way.
Each had huge potential to swing the franchise into a Indians like long-term winning plan.
Instead we traded for Jose Vidro and Horacio Ramirez and then sold the farm for Bedard and robbed our own bank for Silva.
But yes, this seems like the make-or-break winter. Another disaster of an offseason and it could be who knows how long until they can recover and, I suspect, it’s going to make 2009 hard to cover with any passion.
by Matthew on Aug 15, 2008 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lots of great writers/sports writers/poets/creative people have led lives cut tragically short.
Now I see so much more clearly why booze is fall back self medication of so many careers cut short.
by dpseadv on Aug 15, 2008 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't matter who our GM is
As long as Lincoln/Chuck are here.
by The Beer Baron on Aug 15, 2008 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So nothing to look forward to then for quite sometime
since niether one of those two are going anywhere.
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
by MfaninAlaska on Aug 15, 2008 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This assumes the offer for Bonser actually happened
We have only Joe Christensen’s word as evidence.
by Gomez on Aug 15, 2008 11:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We also have multiple people reporting that the Mariners wanted someone better than that
by Jeff on Aug 15, 2008 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A does not necessarily mean B
Now if other sources like those confirm we turned down an offer for Bonser, then okay, but I want more confirmation than some fish-hack named Joe Christensen before I assume we turned down Boof Bonser.
by Gomez on Aug 15, 2008 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boof Bonser doesn't matter
The return doesn’t matter.
The fact that we wanted the return matters.
by Graham on Aug 15, 2008 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A means that therefore an offer of B wouldn't be good enough
it really doesn’t make a difference one way or the other whether or not B actually happened.
by Jeff on Aug 15, 2008 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thus you're angry whether or not this actually happened
That’s fine.
by Gomez on Aug 15, 2008 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We've all seen the Mariners make some pretty dumb moves..
But at some point, seriously? Is something like this even conceivable? Can any one front office be this remarkably incompetent?
by CKel on Aug 15, 2008 11:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm trying to find a ray of hope here...
Is there any chance that this decision was made by Lee Pelekoudis, and Lincoln/Armstrong simply allowed him to make the call? This decision shows the same absence of logic as decisions made by Bill Bavasi. Please tell me that a new GM will have the authority to make better decisions without being hamstrung from above.
by Man From Nantucket on Aug 15, 2008 11:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I've been pretty apathetic all year..but I'm pretty fucking mad right now
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Aug 15, 2008 12:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm...
Un flambeau, Jeanette, Isabelle!
My layout.spellcheckDefault goes to 11
by PositivePaul on Aug 15, 2008 12:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think the combination.
You could argue mitigating circumstances for the extension, but couldn’t you do the same for this non-deal too?
by Graham on Aug 15, 2008 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the time I think you could've at least made an argument that Kenji was worth extending
by Jeff on Aug 15, 2008 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would have been an... interesting argument.
by Graham on Aug 15, 2008 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Given Clement's progress behind the plate or lack thereof
and also given that Kenji’s slow start reeked of BABIP fluke, I don’t think it would have been unreasonable to extend him for a year or maybe even two at a hometown discount under the assumption that he starts this year, is a part time guy next year and is the reserve catcher in 2010.
Obviously the FO had other ideas though
The ♥ Jose Lopez ♥ Watch - 147 H, 16 BB, 42 G Left
by seattlebruin on Aug 15, 2008 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hence "other ideas"
The ♥ Jose Lopez ♥ Watch - 147 H, 16 BB, 42 G Left
by seattlebruin on Aug 15, 2008 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously not for $24m/3yr
but Kenji’s extension was signed in, what, late April? At the time he had an updated Marcel of .274/.322/.418. That’s not too bad for an everyday catcher.
by Jeff on Aug 15, 2008 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Marcel really the tool to use to try to figure out whether a guy's in massive decline or not?
by Graham on Aug 15, 2008 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The idea is to predict what a guy's going to do going forward, right?
At the time we had less than a month of 2008 information regarding Kenji’s skillset. That’s basically meaningless. I wouldn’t have extended him, but I think had the front office given him something like $8m/1 or $12m/2, it would’ve been somewhat justifiable.
by Jeff on Aug 15, 2008 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marcel isn't looking at career trajectories for catchers, it's looking at them for hitters
And it’s not looking at collapse potential either, but instead an average based on everyone (forgive me if I’m mistaken about how this works).
I’d guess PECOTA, say, would have been blaring alarms about early collapse.
by Graham on Aug 15, 2008 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You'd still be basing it on less than a month of information, though
by Jeff on Aug 15, 2008 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And a history of old catchers being bad.
by Graham on Aug 15, 2008 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right (Marcel does at least have a built-in age adjustment)
Kenji’s PECOTA projected EqA:
2008: .259
2009: .258
2010: .257
It’s not until the age 35-36 seasons that his player card really sees a substantial dropoff.
by Jeff on Aug 15, 2008 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
17%
Breakout: 34%
Improve: 70%
(I don’t know if these are even the least bit meaningful.)
by Jeff on Aug 15, 2008 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neither do I
Huh. That’s interesting.
by Graham on Aug 15, 2008 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Batspeed.
It seems to me like a scouting approach would be more useful to figure out if a player’s done or not. Either that, or maybe updated projections need to try to take into account some stat (ISO maybe?) that reflects batspeed. When a guy’s ISO plummets dramatically, like Kenji’s this year, it seems like a decent indication he’s done. Then again, Carlos Delgado says hi, so I don’t know.
by Milendriel on Aug 15, 2008 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you are going to base a contract extension on a player
shouldn’t it be prudent to get a bigger sample size then 1 month to evaluate whether he’s worth extending or not? The biggest problem with the extension in my view, is the timing of it. He’s aging, he plays a position notorious for not aging well, and out of the blocks he’s struggling with the bat. That’s not the time to give him an extension based on a prior seasons performance. Wait till June use 2 or 3 months worth of data.
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
by MfaninAlaska on Aug 15, 2008 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's hard to try and defend something I didn't support
I definitely agree with you. However, were I the Mariners’ PR rep, this is how I would’ve justified it at the time:
“We believe that Kenji Johjima is a solid everyday catcher whose rough April does little to change his forecast going forward. We think he can contribute and help make this a winning team both now and in the near future.”
$24m/3? Clearly excessive. But what I’m saying is that you could’ve made some sort of reasonable argument that Kenji was worth keeping around for another year or two, whereas no such defense can be made for the Washburn decision.
by Jeff on Aug 15, 2008 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Washburn's a consistent innings eater who solidifies the rotation.
Behind Felix, he’s been our go-to guy all season, and he’s really help to cushion the loss of Bedard.
by Graham on Aug 15, 2008 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that was key in Joe Posnanski's article about batting Vidro third:
I’m on record saying that the Indians should have Grady hitting third, but that’s a totally different thing … I think he’d be a better No. 3, but that’s just a baseball disagreement. I’m on record disagreeing with some of Trey Hillman’s moves, but again I always UNDERSTAND the moves
The M’s decision-making is just mind-numbing. I really want to believe it is impossible for a baseball-idiot to hold a position of authority in a Major League Baseball franchise, but they’re making it very difficult to believe that.
by great gonzalez on Aug 15, 2008 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think its actually easier to spin keeping Washburn
“he’s done exactly what we’ve expected him to do, eating up innings. With the uncertain status of Bedard going forward, the struggles of Batista, and the down season from Silva, Washburn has gone out there and done his job everytime he’s been called upon.”
And you are talking about him for one more season only…. Kenji you’ve got him for 3 more, when you had Clement and Johnson in AAA.. and Moore on his way up. The M’s had more options for replacement at catcher then they do or did for Washburn considering the Bedard injury status and the collapse of Batista.
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
by MfaninAlaska on Aug 15, 2008 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't mean I want Washburn.
That was just to show how you can spin keeping him.
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
by MfaninAlaska on Aug 15, 2008 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
God it's weird posing other peoples' hypothetical arguments
by Jeff on Aug 15, 2008 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff I think many people think you have got less funny
by Graham on Aug 15, 2008 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm enjoying this.
You know there’s some serious buffoonery going on in the FO when a thread becomes dedicated to an attempt to understand what’s going on inside the minds of the people who run your favorite baseball team.
by Omerta on Aug 15, 2008 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't mean spin, though
I mean an actual, legitimate, sound defense. You can spin anything. But there is no intelligent way to defend keeping Washburn, whereas there was a somewhat intelligent way to defend keeping Johjima (although, again, not for that much or that long).
by Jeff on Aug 15, 2008 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only downfall to keeping Washburn
is the amount of money. If he was cheaper it wouldn’t be that big of an issue. He’s a solid back of the rotation guy. He’s consistent, but below average.
Now you can dump him and save the money, but you’re turning that money to an organization that has really not shown much ability to evaluate talent in a cost effective way.
Keeping Washburn means that money is off the books already so it can’t be wasted on another veteran with declining skills or below average ability…. it could also force the M’s to go younger at some positions to save money.
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
by MfaninAlaska on Aug 15, 2008 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Somehow...
…I don’t find “overpay Below Average Player so you can’t overpay Different Below Average Player” a very convincing defense.
by great gonzalez on Aug 15, 2008 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kenji Johjima, Apr 25
LD – .175
FB – .365
GB – .460
K% – .059
Kenji Johjima, Career
LD – .195
FB – .350
GB – .452
K% – .088
Yeah, it’s crazy stupid to give a 32 year old catcher 3/24 when your best prospect is a catcher, but given that even we thought it was a BABIP fluke (through 4/25 – BABIP = .206), but unless you’re looking at a more serious (e.g. PECOTA) projection, there’s no reason to think from his early numbers that he had hit any sort of massive decline
The ♥ Jose Lopez ♥ Watch - 147 H, 16 BB, 42 G Left
by seattlebruin on Aug 15, 2008 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There was really was no baseball reason to extend him
unless he turned in to Brian McCann or Clement completely flamed out.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 15, 2008 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That gives me a certain amount of satisfaction.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 15, 2008 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the time of the extension
Kenji was 32 year old catcher…. hitting .182/.232/.221.
Extending him at that time always seemed silly. A position noted for early decline because of wear and tear, a player struggling mightily with the bat… you could have easily held off on the extension until later in the year to see if he bounced back.
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
by MfaninAlaska on Aug 15, 2008 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crap now I gotta start drinking
Graham agreed with me finally.
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
by MfaninAlaska on Aug 15, 2008 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also forgot to mention Kenji got a nearly 3 million a year raise as well as the 3 more years when this happened.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Aug 15, 2008 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is thin bordering on stupid, but since this thread is conjecture based...
I’m putting it out anyway. Teams in states that have income tax often negotiate more money into a contract to compensate a player moving from a state without income tax. Like Texas going to New York. Now I’m getting thin here, but maybe a weakening dollar to the yen? Holy shit, I’m trying to be an apologist or defender of the FO with this and I feel kind of ill, but it’s a far out possibility for the raise. The extension… at his age I can think of nothing.
by dpseadv on Aug 15, 2008 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except Washington doesn't have an income tax
The ♥ Jose Lopez ♥ Watch - 147 H, 16 BB, 42 G Left
by seattlebruin on Aug 15, 2008 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think his point was the exchange rate in Joh's case
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Aug 15, 2008 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have a weak American dollar, I was thinking of what Joh is worth in Japanese yen.
Hey, thin ice is fun sometimes. In a situation of stupid like this, it’s hard to fail in thinking up reasons for said stupidity.
by dpseadv on Aug 15, 2008 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
American dollar is gaining strength back.
by Matthew on Aug 15, 2008 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha. Wait 6 months, get back to me on that.
History is a bitch, and the M’s are going to worth considerably less to other teams in winter trades than now. Desperation is a lovely thing when it ain’t you. Effing effete rich dilettante baseball wanna-be executives. You’d think they’ve cut their own throat by now, but they just keep making strides down the wrong side of the bell curve.
by dpseadv on Aug 15, 2008 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing is, there's a defensible defense for pursuing an extension PRECISELY at that moment.
And it’s that you use the player’s lack of leverage in that situation to get him to sign a team-friendly extension. Much like how I was begging for the team to ink Beltre to a discounted extension early this year when he was suffering through the same sort of BABIP-driven depressed stat line.
If the Mariners had used Kenji’s shit April to extend another year at 5.5M, I would have called it a smart move on their part. Instead they crapped all over themselves.
by Matthew on Aug 15, 2008 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So...
Erik Bedard equals Tony Butler, Adam Jones, Kam Mickolio, Chris Tillman and George Sherill
therefore
Jarrod Washburn and his tab equals Nick Blackburn
by Frosty Raptor on Aug 15, 2008 12:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Starting pitching is so goddamnfucking overrated.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 15, 2008 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know what's amazing about this?
We happily traded Rafael Soriano for Horacio Ramirez 18 months ago.
by Graham on Aug 15, 2008 12:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Bonser = Soriano
Washburn = Ho?
against Vegas reliever Casey Hoorelbeke, whose ancestors clearly couldn't spell Hurlbeck properly.
by Christian on Aug 15, 2008 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ho was given a chance to make the roster in spring training this year....
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Aug 15, 2008 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But so has Rey Ordonez and Fernando Vina in recent years.
Ergo Miguel Cairo.
against Vegas reliever Casey Hoorelbeke, whose ancestors clearly couldn't spell Hurlbeck properly.
by Christian on Aug 15, 2008 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I'm saying is they actually considered it possible for Ho to make the roster this year after his 2007.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Aug 15, 2008 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and I am in agreement.
against Vegas reliever Casey Hoorelbeke, whose ancestors clearly couldn't spell Hurlbeck properly.
by Christian on Aug 15, 2008 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If so, at least they are consistent.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 15, 2008 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Soriano::undervalued as Washburn::overvalued.
Ho::overvalued as Bonser::undervalued.
If the Bonser rumours are true, this team has managed to go through two hilarious trade screwups using completely opposite strategies.
That takes some doing.
by Graham on Aug 15, 2008 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Although...
…in both cases they are undervaluing the young guy and overvaluing the veteran; not sure the strategies are opposite.
by great gonzalez on Aug 15, 2008 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I was getting at.
The way they value established starting pitchers is criminal.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 15, 2008 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Although...
(arguing with myself) HoRam wasn’t exactly a “veteran” at 26-27… though he did have four Major League seasons under his belt… I’m so confused…
by great gonzalez on Aug 15, 2008 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's also the overly-aggressive/under-aggressive thing going on.
And I’m not really sure Ho wasn’t a young guy.
by Graham on Aug 15, 2008 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ho had a steady track record of
~12-14 win seasons and a 4.50ish ERA, plus he had be hyped as a prospect. I wuld guess the M’s thought they were getting another Washburn who had room for growth.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 15, 2008 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He had 2 non-injured seasons in the majors.
by Graham on Aug 15, 2008 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Err... nevermind on the wins
but the ERA point stands. They figured if they could just keep him healthy…
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 15, 2008 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the sake of your health...
I dont think its a good idea for you guys to attempt wrapping your head around this.
With something as complicated as this, I think you would better suit your time trying to devise a plan to rob a few casinos.
by Slica on Aug 15, 2008 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
some doing
or some serious drug abuse.
against Vegas reliever Casey Hoorelbeke, whose ancestors clearly couldn't spell Hurlbeck properly.
by Christian on Aug 15, 2008 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If anything.
That just shows you how much of a difference a GM makes.
We’re not dealing Washburn until we get high-end talent in return.
We traded Jamie Moyer for what again?
by ThundaPC on Aug 15, 2008 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could this organization just be gunshy on making any trades?
The turnaround on pretty much any trade in the last 8 years has lead to nothing. Wouldn’t be surprised if the M’s were just scared of the repercussions. Doesn’t make it right, but just trying to understand this asanine mindset.
against Vegas reliever Casey Hoorelbeke, whose ancestors clearly couldn't spell Hurlbeck properly.
by Christian on Aug 15, 2008 12:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
They're gun-shy about trading veterans, but not kids
by Gomez on Aug 15, 2008 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and the remarks Steve Phillips will make about them on BBTN.
against Vegas reliever Casey Hoorelbeke, whose ancestors clearly couldn't spell Hurlbeck properly.
by Christian on Aug 15, 2008 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if the M's willingness to spend feeds this stupidity
But then again, Carl Pohlad owns the Twinkies.
Hmm…
by Frosty Raptor on Aug 15, 2008 12:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
So
Sexson waived, Melky Cabrera demoted.
And you say the Mariners dont know how to evaluate talent…
by Slica on Aug 15, 2008 12:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
To be fair, it was rumored that it could've been Milky or Gardner.
JI/Robert '08!
by Fin on Aug 15, 2008 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That Sexon contract coming off an injury like he had with his shoulder, way too high.
They were paying pretty close to peak value for damaged goods weren’t they? And I say ‘they’ now, because every missed opportunity that goes by for Wash to be gone, I’m realizing how high the stupid reaches on this team.
by dpseadv on Aug 15, 2008 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Geoff Baker and Silva are on the front page of VEB?
WTF
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 15, 2008 12:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If this is true, then I want to die.
A very simple if/then syllogism.
"Maybe Chief has to go and grab somebody from his neck and throw him into the wall."
by esoteric on Aug 15, 2008 1:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
LET ME REPEAT: IF THIS IS TRUE THEN CHRIST ON A FUCKING SHOESTRING I WANT TO DIE.
Or maybe I want this team to die. Or maybe I want Lee Pelekoudas to come down with Carlos Beltran’s Disease (symptoms: YOU FUCKING EXPLODE).
"Maybe Chief has to go and grab somebody from his neck and throw him into the wall."
by esoteric on Aug 15, 2008 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes I'm glad I don't own a gun
Seriously… Seriously… I just have no words for this.
by arbeck77 on Aug 15, 2008 1:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I have a few
Unsurprising.
Predictable.
Pathetic.
Sodo Mojo.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Aug 15, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
MOJO RISIN' DOOD!
Oh by the way, I was being sarcastic.
[/Homer]
"Maybe Chief has to go and grab somebody from his neck and throw him into the wall."
by esoteric on Aug 15, 2008 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You smell like an elephant's butt.
I live in georegia but i dont see rusia no where not even sound but they says theres tanks should i be worrie-Yahoo Answers
by Phildopip on Aug 15, 2008 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'M STILL ANGRY. GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRR
[rips own head off]
"Maybe Chief has to go and grab somebody from his neck and throw him into the wall."
by esoteric on Aug 15, 2008 1:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing
The FO turned down Bonser saying “No, we believe Washburn is worth more than a cartoon character.”
It’s the only thing that comes remotely close to making sense. Absolutely inexcusable.
I'm more like I am now than I've ever been.
by ralphie81 on Aug 15, 2008 1:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Shit like this makes me want to eat my own face.
How can an MLB FO be so fucking stupid?
Go Nova
by dbroncos31 on Aug 15, 2008 1:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
They make it really hard for us to cheer for this team.
Please have Antonetti or Ng or someone please save our mentally crippled organization. I mean, when our team is worse than the Nationals, that’s when you know there is an issue.
JI/Robert '08!
by Fin on Aug 15, 2008 1:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Why would anybody intelligent want to come here?
They are being set up to fail by Chuck and Cohort, unless I had an out in my contract to bolt if too much interference, it would career suicide wouldn’t it? Or at least a big setback?
by dpseadv on Aug 15, 2008 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I've read that before. And every day since the 'quick' turnaround is getting to be a deeper hole.
Or maybe my frustration and anger is clouding my judgement.
by dpseadv on Aug 15, 2008 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Generally
I only bother to post stupid jokes.
But if this is true, it is un-f’ing believable.
by Shawk on Aug 15, 2008 2:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Do we have any further confirmation on this?
by Gomez on Aug 15, 2008 2:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
In retrospect, your avatar was prescient.
"Maybe Chief has to go and grab somebody from his neck and throw him into the wall."
by esoteric on Aug 15, 2008 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Though expected, a part of me still feels like Nancy Kerrigan after she got Gillooly'ed...
WHY!?!?!?! WHYYYYYYY!?!?!? WHYYYYYYYYY!?!?
by SethGrandpa on Aug 15, 2008 2:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I wish I knew how to post pics.
I put the pic of Mary Decker-Slaney the moment after Zola Budd tripped her. The agonized look on her face pretty much exemplifies how I’m feeling about the M’s right about now.
by dpseadv on Aug 15, 2008 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like this.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Aug 15, 2008 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dammit
I was just gonna post that.
by The Beer Baron on Aug 15, 2008 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll never forget that. She was screaming 'Oh NO!! Oh NO!!' the whole time.
First Olympics I remember, and the only event I clearly remember.
by dpseadv on Aug 15, 2008 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Holy crap....
- Larry Stone from Bakerland.
If you wondered about Jarrod Washburn’s reaction to not being traded, he wore it on his face as he walked into the clubhouse today. He did not look happy. And, it turned out, he wasn’t. He said he found out yesterday about the possible Twins’ trade about the same time he found out it wasn’t happening.
“I had mixed emotions,’’ he said. "I was happy and upset at the same time.”
The happiness came from the possibility of being traded to the Twins, which was just about the top team on his list of possible destinations. His home, he said, is an hour and a half drive away.
"If the rumors are accurate, it’s too bad,‘’ he said. "It would have been ideal. It would have been perfect. It would have gotten me to a place that’s contending and it’s in my own damn backyard.’’
On the rumors that the Twins were offering Boof Bonser, Washburn said: "If that was the case, how much more do you think you’re going to get? A young guy with a great arm who’s cheap.‘’
When even the FREAKIN’ PLAYER understands that he isn’t worth as much as management thinks he’s worth that’s just beyond terrible.
As I mentioned earlier, this is a pretty stark contrast in GMs, Lee and Bavasi.
Bavasi had Jamie Moyer, who the organization always saw as a Staff Ace, was dealt for spare parts on order to get Moyer to a contending team.
Lee, on the other hand, wants to turn all his junk into treasure and seems hell-bent on fleecing someone.
Lord, help us.
by ThundaPC on Aug 15, 2008 2:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I was calming down BUT THIS MAKES ME ANGRY ALL OVER AGAIN GAAAAAAAA
KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL
I’m as upset as I was when Felix got spiked, albeit with far more justification and a much different aftermath.
"Maybe Chief has to go and grab somebody from his neck and throw him into the wall."
by esoteric on Aug 15, 2008 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This.
Please stop. Oh, wait, I can turn off the computer. Stop reading the papers, anything to get off the ledge at this point. This is absolutely terrible. I’ve only seen front office personnel perform this badly when they want to kill attendance and move a team. Hey, holy shit!!
by dpseadv on Aug 15, 2008 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The worst thing about this
Is it makes me almost want Bavasi back.
I'm more like I am now than I've ever been.
by ralphie81 on Aug 15, 2008 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, you know what.
Great. Hey Washburn, go demand that the FO put you on irrevocable waivers.
by BrianL on Aug 15, 2008 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Washburn threw himself under the bus.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Aug 15, 2008 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly Washburn nixed the deal by invoking his NTC.
by Matthew on Aug 15, 2008 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The best part for me is that Washburn will call bullshit
On anything Lee, Howard and Chuck try to say about this.
Best case scenario is our ownership/management being outed as fools to the casual fan.
by Sec 108 on Aug 15, 2008 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fucking hilarious.
"All I’ve ever done is be Juan Pierre when I wear this jersey. They’re sticking it to me this year for whatever reason. "
.280/.324/.316
~Juan Pierre
by Goose on Aug 15, 2008 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know. . . I picked this team. I didn't grow up in Washington, the M's just happened to be the closest team.
Now, when I want to drop them from life it’s just too God damned late. I’m stuck with them, and rooting for any other team would just piss me off. Fuck this fucking team. Next time I fly to Seattle I am standing outside Safeco with a picket sign.
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
by thewyrm on Aug 15, 2008 3:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Name the game, I'll meet you there.
Hell, I’ll put up fliers all over town.
by dpseadv on Aug 15, 2008 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Christ, I shoulda' stayed in Montana.
J.K.L.
by acblue on Aug 16, 2008 12:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My question
is this…if this offer actually went down, and I honestly believe it did, who gets the Failboat points? The Twins for actually offering anything for Washburn other than salary relief, or the Mariners for turning it down?
I’m glad it didn’t happen. I don’t want Washburn for free, much less his salary or Boof for him.
Is Bill Bavasi secretly still in charge? Of both teams?
At any rate, thanks Seattle for not taking the deal.
Sincerely,
Jesse of Twinkie Town

by Jesse on Aug 16, 2008 7:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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