MorrowVSLincecum Mechanics
by truebl on Aug 15, 2008 3:33 AM PDT
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Printthree GIFs comparing lincecum and morrow's mechanics
the arm action and tempo are pretty similar, tim turns his back more, and morrow is more upright and morrow falls off to the left. but other than that they look quite similar to me. i dont know if the similarities between their mechanics have ever been discussed, but maybe someone with some pitching knowledge could compare the two, they at least seem to have the same tempo
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There's an edit button above the green "Comments" bar.
Please use it to put proper punctuation and capitalization in your post. It is barely readable, and I can almost guarantee that someone will pop in and tell you “Your post sucks, delete it” if you don’t.
You may have a great start to a diary, do you have any thoughts on the issue besides the base similarities? You should put those into the post itself as well.
I would comment further, but I don’t know much about pitching. It does look to me that I would rip my knee to shreds if I was that low and put sideways force on my knee like that. It doesn’t appear to have hurt him, though, so maybe it’s not that bad.
Also see this before you post this somewhere else and take anything to heart.
Sports Illustrated had an article on Lincecum's mechanics
They said that because of his small size he has to use his legs a lot more than most pitchers. He twists his torso back to get more torque. This allows him to reach the same velocity of the standard 6’5" 220 lb. pitcher, but with significantly less stress on the shoulder. Another thing the article pointed out was that on his stride he has a “secondary” stride. He lifts his ankle slightly so that he lunges toward the batter before letting the ball go. His stride is more than 100% his body height and most pitchers go about 70% of their height. Lincecum’s father video taped all of his game from Little League to college in order to tweak things to make a pitching motion customized for his body. I thought that was a pretty risky thing to do if you don’t know much, but he got it right. That’s basically all I remember from the article.
Well just by looking at his motion compared to Morrow's you can see how much longer his body remains closed
before opening up with his delivery. Also, he clearly comes much further over the top than Morrow does, which probably accentuates that vicious curve he throws. It sounds like his father really got it right, because people who stand 5-11, 170 were not meant to throw a baseball with that kind of velocity.
I’m starting to move more towards the “you know, it’s very possible that Tim Lincecum’s unusual motion will help him AVOID injuries in hi career” camp.
The ♥ Jose Lopez ♥ Watch - 147 H, 16 BB, 42 G Left
by seattlebruin on Aug 15, 2008 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Also, OP, it's a good idea and the gifs work well
but please use shift and break up your sentences in logical ways – makes it easier for the rest of us to read
The ♥ Jose Lopez ♥ Watch - 147 H, 16 BB, 42 G Left
by seattlebruin on Aug 15, 2008 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions
That's why it's the "very possible" camp
not an absolute one way or the other.
But yes we’ve already had this discussion so I’ll leave it at that.
The ♥ Jose Lopez ♥ Watch - 147 H, 16 BB, 42 G Left
by seattlebruin on Aug 15, 2008 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
It's very possible that Tim Lincecum will explode.
Many things are ‘very possible’
by Graham MacAree on Aug 15, 2008 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Why do you think I was so intentionally vague?
The ♥ Jose Lopez ♥ Watch - 147 H, 16 BB, 42 G Left
by seattlebruin on Aug 15, 2008 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
And I would say it's merely possible that Tim Lincecum would explode
not very possible
The ♥ Jose Lopez ♥ Watch - 147 H, 16 BB, 42 G Left
by seattlebruin on Aug 15, 2008 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
"not unpossible"
By the way, even if their mechanics are identical, what conclusions can be drawn from that? None?
by great gonzalez on Aug 15, 2008 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Essentially, yes
you can hypothesize, but there’s no real evidence one way or the other
The ♥ Jose Lopez ♥ Watch - 147 H, 16 BB, 42 G Left
by seattlebruin on Aug 15, 2008 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Jarrod Washburn looks like Keifer Sutherland.
Therefore he is awesome.
by great gonzalez on Aug 15, 2008 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
After watching these gifs for 10 or 15 minutes,
it looks to me as if Morrow and Lincecum both throw a baseball overhand while wearing a leather “mitt” on their opposing hand. In that vein, they’re very similar to both Nolan Ryan and Mark Prior.
by Teej on Aug 15, 2008 2:15 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Both seem to also wear baseball caps on their heads and at least one "5" on their backs
The ♥ Jose Lopez ♥ Watch - 147 H, 16 BB, 42 G Left
by seattlebruin on Aug 15, 2008 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Except doesn't he always get compared to Sandy Koufax??
by Graham MacAree on Aug 15, 2008 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I saw a film once of Koufax pitching next to a porcupine
and their mechanics were not at all similar. The porcupine just appeared bitter to not have thumbs.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
Yes, but...
It’s not a perfect comp, but it’s close. The main similarities between Koufax and Lincecum are:
- The very long strides; they both stride farther than the vast majority of pitchers
- Very strong hip/shoulder rotational separation; if you take the hips and say the Y axis is that running up the spine from the hips, both get tremendous Y rotation between the bottom of the spine at the hips and the top of the spine at the shoulders
The main difference I see:
- If you imagine that the axis from the back to the front of your hips is X and the axis running from one side to the other side of the hips is Z, it appears that Koufax twists more in the X axis (i.e. bends his spine to the side) while Lincecum twists more in the Z axis (bends his spine backwards). Since this is happening in conjunction with a major twist in the Y axis, it’s a bit hard to tell, and an animated diagram would greatly help in showing this, but you’ll have to bear with me. Imagine if Koufax were a righty – what you’d see at the point where his leading foot plants is his body bent back more towards 2nd base, while Lincecum’s back is bent more towards 1st base.
The result of this difference is that while both rotations in conjunction with the twist in Y produce a tremendous amount of torque as the spine un-coils and whips the arm around, Lincecum ends up being a little more over-the-top in his arm slot than Koufax (though Koufax is very high 3/4) and in Lincecum’s follow-through, that difference in twist axes pulls his back leg higher off the ground than Koufax.
There are some superficial differences in the look of their leg kicks as they stride forward, but this doesn’t appear to have much real effect on their body rotation and arm positioning.
It’s hard to tell from the reference I’m seeing how similar their forearm pronation is – it appears the Lincecum gets more pronation than Koufax, but without highspeed film breakdowns of Koufax there’s no way to know for sure.
They both appear to have good follow-through on their arms, and keep their glove arms tucked-in pretty close to their bodies.
I’m no biomechanics expert, with no medical training. Thus, while I read pitching mechanics blogs with some interest, I have no way of knowing if they have any idea what they’re talking about. But as a 3D character animator with a long-time fascination with pitching motions, I do feel I have a fairly good grasp of looking at pitching clips and distinguishing differences and similarities in pitching motions.
I liked the post.
Good job on the gif work, truebl.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
morrow /Lincecum
Thanks for the video. This is what I know, not much, about the differences. I am a big Lincecum fan. First, look at where he drops the ball, below his butt. Brandon does not go that far down and kind of flicks it at the bottom. Lincecum turns his shoulders almost parallel to third, Brandon’s shoulders do not move that far. Lincecum’s hips spin all the way around to the point that his belt buckle is point ing at home while the shoulders are still pointed to third. Both use their lower body to generate their amazing speed, Tim ends up on one foot in perfect balance while Brandon falls off toward first base. My son is a high school pitcher and after viewing Lincecum said: “He is a freak!” He is unbelievably flexible. Look at that finish again. Many scouts thought his unusual form would cause arm troubles but they were wrong. Brandon seems to put more stress on his arm. I will predict he will have arm troubles someday. Type in Lincecum mechanics to get a slow motion shot of this guy the Mariners could have had.
Couple differences
1. Lincecum’s forward stride is tremendous, probably as long relative to his height as any pitcher in the history of the game. Morrow has a pretty good stride forward, but it’s not nearly as long as Lincecum’s. As part of his longer stride, Lincecum kicks his leg farther out towards 3rd base, and his leg has a greater arc of swing into planting than Morrow’s.
2. While both Lincecum and Morrow get strong hip/shoulder separation twisting going on in their spine, Lincecum has a greater additional twist backwards; compare Morrow and Lincecum at the point where their leading leg plants – Lincecum’s spine is curving back towards 1st base much more so than Morrow’s; Morrow’s back is much straighter. This is the main reason Lincecum’s arm slot is higher than Morrow’s.
Aside from those two differences, their arm actions appear very similar, though it looks like Lincecum may have a little longer follow-through than Morrow.
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