In The Land Of The Binoculate, The One-Eyed Man Looks Like A Fucking Moron
It'd been a while since the last time this organization made me legitimately mad. If anything, until today they'd been taking strides forward, having ditched Bavasi, traded Rhodes, made room for Reed, and hung onto Ibanez. They weren't behaving themselves like the smartest organization in the world, but they didn't act incompetent, either, which was a step up, and enough to earn them the benefit of the doubt when they held onto Washburn through the July deadline. The way I figured, yeah, it would've been nice to unload him, but there wasn't much harm in calling anyone's bluff. If the Mariners just wanted to give him away, they could do it in August.
Well August is here. And so is Jarrod Washburn. For good. Because apparently myself and the Mariners don't see eye to eye.
The Twins were willing to take on Washburn’s contract, and Seattle could have dumped it on them. But the Mariners also wanted the Twins to throw in one of their current starters.
The Mets are interested, too, and the Mariners want Niese and/or Martinez or another top prospect, and New York doesn't have that many of those.
The Rockies also have expressed limited interest in Washburn, but they are in a little shock that the Mariners would ask for center fielder Dexter Fowler (.337, nine homers at Double-A) and right-handed reliever Casey Weathers (2-1, 3.15 ERA in 41 games of Double-A relief) in exchange.
The Jarrod Washburn talks between the Mariners and Yankees hit a standstill late Sunday afternoon. The Mariners want a solid prospect in return from the Yankees, in addition to having the Yankees assume the bulk of the $14 million owed to Washburn for the rest of this season and next.
It's no wonder we couldn't get rid of Jarrod Washburn. The only team that thinks he has any real value was the team trying to trade him.
Look at those four blockquotes and then try to convince me that Lee Pelekoudas and the rest of these guys aren't complete and utter idiots. Jarrod Washburn is not a good pitcher. Jarrod Washburn is not even a decent pitcher. Jarrod Washburn is a below-average pitcher set to earn more than ten million dollars next season. More than ten million dollars for a guy for whom the organization already has at least one cheap, equally effective in-house replacement. But as it turns out, this team either doesn't know or doesn't care. Or both. God knows they're stupid enough for it to be both.
The Mariners had their chance to dump Washburn's contract on Minnesota today and wipe their hands clean. A chance to just give him away, no questions asked. A chance to give themselves ten million more dollars to spend this offseason on a team that badly needs fixing. And they passed on the chance, because Minnesota wouldn't trade one of its current starters in return.
| Name | tRA | Age |
| Washburn | 5.16 | 33 |
| Baker | 4.34 | 26 |
| Blackburn | 4.40 | 26 |
| Liriano | 5.24 | 24 |
| Perkins | 5.01 | 25 |
| Slowey | 3.94 | 24 |
| Bonser | 4.33 | 26 |
What kind of thought process even goes into making that request? How do people capable of being so unfathomably irrational and dense ever end up running a Major League Baseball team? There are 30 teams in Major League Baseball. Give each one, I dunno, ten guys who know their shit when it comes to player evaluation, and you should be talking about the ~300 smartest player evaluation minds in the world. The top 300. The cream of the crop. There's so much demand for these positions that in theory every team should be run by some of the brightest baseball minds on the planet. But we know that's not how it actually works, because one of those 30 teams tried to get value back for Jarrod Washburn. I can't believe it. I can't believe these people are in charge of the Mariners. It's a wonder they can even tie their shoes in the morning without accidentally setting themselves ablaze.
The Mariners are living alone in a market that doesn't exist. To them, Jarrod Washburn is a heck of a pitcher who'd be a boon to any rotation, but then this is an organization that can't evaluate pitching, and hasn't ever been able to evaluate pitching for as long as I've been a blogger. Things don't work the way they think they work anymore. It's not an accident that we outbid the competition for Carlos Silva. It's not an accident that we outbid the competition for Miguel Batista. And it's not an accident that we outbid the competition for Jarrod Washburn. Even a few years ago, when Washburn first became a free agent, the Angels laughed at his desire for a long-term contract. And since then the league has only gotten more intelligent. Every team but ours has come to realize that you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a #5 starter. The Cardinals grabbed Kyle Lohse for $4.25m/1yr on March 14th. The Nationals grabbed Odalis Perez on a minor league contract in the middle of February. The Padres landed Randy Wolf for $4.75m/1yr and traded filler for Cha Baek. And so on and so forth. Teams aren't paying the kind of price for mediocre starters that they used to anymore because teams have come to realize that they're lousy investments.
It's not that guys like Washburn are devoid of any value. They do serve a purpose. It's just that giving them eight figures is such a gross and unwarranted overpayment that you end up doing yourself far more harm than good.
Steve: This sandwich is delicious.
Bill: It cost you eighty dollars.
Steve: But it tastes good.
Bill: You paid eighty dollars for a sandwich.
For some reason the Twins generously granted the Mariners a glorious opportunity to at least partially undo one of their greatest recent mistakes, and they passed it up. In so doing, they only confirmed that, while Bavasi may be gone, his legacy remains, and that this is an organization that doesn't understand the first, most fundamental thing about building a baseball team. This was a gimme. This was some higher power saying "hey you guys have been through enough, here, let me give you a break." And the Mariners didn't care. They just didn't care. Were this a college exam, the exam consisted of one question, and the question was "Spell the word 'blue'," and the multiple choice answers were (A) blue, (B) green, (C) yellow, (D) black, and the Mariners wrote "6" on their Scantron. This was the easiest test you could imagine, and the Mariners failed.
They failed.
Listen, Mariners. I know you're reading this. Fuck you. Fuck each and every one of you who either executed or stood idly by while somebody else executed any of the countless unforgivable decisions this team has made at the Major League level over the past several years. You don't deserve us. You don't deserve people who for negligible return pour their blood, sweat and tears into following your organization and writing about it every God damn day of the year. And while I'm sure you probably think there's nothing you could possibly do to jilt your most loyal and hardcore of supporters, keep pushing it. Keep pushing it and see. Before long there won't be anyone left.
15 recs |
244 comments
Comments
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The Cardinals grabbed Kyle Lohse for $4.25m/1yr on March 14th.
How does it feel to be outsmarted by a team who gave Joel Pineiro a multi year deal?
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 7:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Emotions in the last 20 hours

by Sports on a Schtick on Aug 14, 2008 7:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This is a dark fucking period.
With nary a flicker of light at the end of a long fucking tunnel.
Who is this guy?
by evanr on Aug 14, 2008 8:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Darker than a black steers tuchas on a moonless night?
You guys can always come over to the bay there’s still room for new fans.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 14, 2008 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
History Can Repeat Itself
And while I’m sure you probably think there’s nothing you could possibly do to jilt your most loyal and hardcore of supporters, keep pushing it. Keep pushing it and see. Before long there won’t be anyone left.
Just ask the Sonics, if they still existed.
Fuck you Chuck Armstrong. The game passed you by, and you are making everyone else suffer for it.
by G_ on Aug 14, 2008 8:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He spelled "Yale" with a six!
Good rant.
I’m of the mind that if we don’t hire a competent GM this winter, I’m through. I’ve managed to rid myself of a number of things I used to love this year, from the Achewood to the NBA. I bet I can handle the M’s too.
by katal on Aug 14, 2008 8:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It's easy enough to say.
But when it comes down to it, as much as we all hate the team and the decisions it makes, there’s too much invested for us to root for anyone else. Except the Rays
by CKel on Aug 14, 2008 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rays will make it easy
and I’ve long followed the Cubs as my “NL” team. I love the Mariners, but I’m willing to walk out of an abusive relationship.
by katal on Aug 14, 2008 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ticket buyers, and souvenir buyers = enablers.
by dpseadv on Aug 14, 2008 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree 100%
I’m not about to give my hard earned money to these people.
by SaberR on Aug 14, 2008 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i have set a personal record for most trips to Safeco this year.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't been this year
I had two chances but I restrained myself.
by SaberR on Aug 14, 2008 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My computer crashed about 2 seconds after I posted that.
After getting it back up, finally, I couldn’t get LL to load. Thought my rabble rousing comments got me super secret probation or something. Anyway, money is the only thing that gets these kind of peoples’ attention, especially when they are separated by an ocean. All I’m saying. (crosses fingers Mac doesn’t implode again!)
by dpseadv on Aug 15, 2008 12:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll never stop rooting for the Ms
but I sure as hell don’t have to care at the level I currently do. There’s so many other things I enjoy that might actually bring joy back relative to my investment.
by Matthew on Aug 14, 2008 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just remember that this time 3 years ago the Rays were in worse shape than we are in
Things can get better in a hurry, not trying to take this off topic but look at how quickly the situation improved for the Hawks.
by Robert on Aug 14, 2008 8:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Didn't they have a farm system or something...
and no big albatross contracts weighing them down?
by johnbai on Aug 15, 2008 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
FUUUUUUUUUUUCK these guys
HA HA HA, your Grandpa's an ASS!- Tourette's Guy (R.I.P)
by tootthekazoo on Aug 14, 2008 8:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Jeff's rant> Dave's rant
"All I’ve ever done is be Juan Pierre when I wear this jersey. They’re sticking it to me this year for whatever reason. "
.280/.324/.316
~Juan Pierre
by Goose on Aug 14, 2008 8:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Cameron has been dragging this team down for years.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus, USSM is much more professional than LoL.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't way for the day Dave finally comes completely unglued
by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 14, 2008 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The day Felix officially files for Free Agency.
"All I’ve ever done is be Juan Pierre when I wear this jersey. They’re sticking it to me this year for whatever reason. "
.280/.324/.316
~Juan Pierre
by Goose on Aug 14, 2008 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you missed my humor.
My fault.
by SaberR on Aug 14, 2008 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's prescient.
If you love something, set it free. Or some sentimental crap, maybe that’s just a Sting lyric.
by dpseadv on Aug 15, 2008 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a fiancee
She occasionally reads the blog. I need her to not give the ring back.
by davidcameron on Aug 14, 2008 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Post it under a pseudonym.
Like, say DaveC or _Dave.
by Matthew on Aug 14, 2008 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is so close to being a Doctor Who reference.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
by Llewdor on Aug 15, 2008 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of which.
I was re-reading Dave’s Mariners Foibles just for kicks. Came across this little gem:
“Instead of being a solidifying force in the rotation, Washburn has given the M’s 445 innings with a 4.72 ERA in a terrific pitcher’s park since signing. Despite having to watch him implode in 2008, the M’s are on the hook for another $10 million in salary in 2009, and they’d be lucky to give Washburn away at this point.”
Posted on June 12th, 2008. This is in case people aren’t mad enough. No one expected this team to be able to give away Washburn this year. Yet, there were several teams willing to take Washburn AND his contract.
And Lee turned them down because they weren’t forking over top talent to get Washburn. Awesome.
Nevertheless, I continue to hold out for better times. As ridiculously stupid as holding on to Washburn is, Lee Pelekoudas is still just an Interm GM. I’d have to think they are serious when they said they want to see this team turned around. I always figured that Lee is just in a holding pattern until the Mariners get their new GM, which meant being gun-shy about selling off their “major” players (ie. Washburn, Ibanez).
But missing out on an awesome opportunity like this seems par for the course for this FO. Terrible.
by ThundaPC on Aug 14, 2008 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice rant, a la Denis Leary. Anger with a message.
Game boycott. Boycott’s work, power to the people. Bye Chuck A. and that other guy. Lee? Whatever. No fans, no gate, until the team gets some competent executives.
by dpseadv on Aug 14, 2008 8:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Life always sucks
If you’re a Seattle sports fan
by The Beer Baron on Aug 14, 2008 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shit!
I’ve been an M’s fan since there has been the M’s and this is probably the third biggest error they ever made.
First: Plummer as manager
Second: Signing Washburn
Third: Not trading him for a pile of dung and some salary relief
Fourth and yet to be made, but coming to a frickin’ dugout near you: Hiring Joey Cora to cry/manage the M’s next year.
I’m starting to hate this sport…..The M’s make the Darwin Award Winners look like qualiity breeders….
Fuck!
I killed a 12 pack just to watch it die...
by Dollar97 on Aug 14, 2008 8:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Signing Silva was probably worse than signing Washburn.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
by Llewdor on Aug 15, 2008 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They say the night is darkest before the dawn.
This is the longest night ever.
"All I’ve ever done is be Juan Pierre when I wear this jersey. They’re sticking it to me this year for whatever reason. "
.280/.324/.316
~Juan Pierre
by Goose on Aug 14, 2008 8:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
John Darnielle says
“Our friends say it’s darkest before the sun rises / We’re pretty sure they’re all wrong.”
Who is this guy?
by evanr on Aug 14, 2008 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
THE MOUNTAIN GOATS?!
I was pretty certain I was the only person to have ever heard of them.
by CKel on Aug 14, 2008 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're not
but that doesn’t change the awesomeness
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 14, 2008 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Mountain Goats rule.
I live in georegia but i dont see rusia no where not even sound but they says theres tanks should i be worrie-Yahoo Answers
by Phildopip on Aug 15, 2008 7:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually there's a bunch of us that are hardcore Mountain Goats fans
by johnbai on Aug 15, 2008 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it makes you feel better the nights on Pluto are probably longer
at least we aren’t Plutonians
by OlSalty on Aug 14, 2008 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank God the Premier League is starting this weekend
I can care a little less about this shitty team
by Scrupio on Aug 14, 2008 8:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Tottenham Hotpur is mine.
If your life had a face, I'd punch it in the balls.
by royalcurve on Aug 14, 2008 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
or, Hotspur.
If your life had a face, I'd punch it in the balls.
by royalcurve on Aug 14, 2008 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats a shame
What made you become a fan of the most disturbingly dreadful team ever? The Gunners are really exponentially better as a team.
by Scrupio on Aug 14, 2008 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a long story.
I am unable to support any other club. I even took a sidetrip from Scotland a few years back just to wander aimlessly around White Hart Lane. It’s sad, and I know it’s sad.
If your life had a face, I'd punch it in the balls.
by royalcurve on Aug 14, 2008 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a Gooner, I respect that
even though I think you’re woefully misguided, I can at least respect the obsession.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Aug 15, 2008 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, awesome!
Another ‘fan’ whose support of Arse is transparently based on recent W/L records.
by marc w on Aug 15, 2008 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gunners til I die
Really the opposite of the way the Mariners are run. Like they’re smart or something.
by Scrupio on Aug 14, 2008 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't the Premier League just end?
How do these soccer leagues differentiate between seasons?!
by Wilder. on Aug 14, 2008 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Word
Never poster here before, but read have read a lot. Word up.
Bringin' the outside heat.
by FizzleDrip on Aug 14, 2008 8:54 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
If only this part were true
Before long there won’t be anyone left.
I hadn’t watched an M’s game in about a week, until this weekend, and I turn on the game Sunday and there’s 30,000+ at the ballpark. Until the crappiest-run team in MLB starts drawing like the Expos in their last year in Montreal, things will never, ever change, and that depresses me more than anything, because I know it’ll never happen. If this edition of the M’s can keep drawing that many people, why should they change the way they run the team?
This team depresses me like no other. Bring on Saturday and the Premiership.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Aug 14, 2008 9:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No.
I still don’t get why people have this irrational hatred of the casual fan. The casual fan enables this team to turn around a hell of a lot quicker. The LACK of the casual fan allowed the Expos to CEASE TO EXIST. Haven’t we had enough of that around here?
Look, you can argue that the steady stream of revenue is an impediment to serious change, but losing a shit-ton of games, the new radio contract and, when it’s up, the new TV deal and simple age/time mean that the current president won’t be here forever. ANYONE can make money running the M’s, and plenty of people know it.
Given this, the M’s need to change because they’re blessed with advantages that 2/3 of the league would kill for. One of them is decent attendance, and that (plus the TV deal) will keep payroll high and allow the team to get decent FAs (if only they knew what a decent FA looked like). Yes, they can make money either way, but when making tons MORE money is so fucking easy, no one with a business background is just going to accept this much incompetence.
I really hope this isn’t wishcasting, but c’mon – I’d really rather not be the Twins: an admired, well-run franchise that’s put together with twine and duct tape, and is always 6 months from moving.
The casual fan means we don’t have to be the Expos. I don’t want to be the Expos.
by marc w on Aug 15, 2008 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Twins have a new stadium under construction
Contraction was a ploy to get a new stadium from the taxpayers, Pohlad and MLB got it, and now it’s not an issue anymore.
by ubelmann on Aug 15, 2008 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's cool, I'm glad for 'em.
I still don’t want to be the Twins. Great organization, good player development, etc. Still wouldn’t trade the M’s balance sheet for the Twins’ balance sheet.
by marc w on Aug 15, 2008 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't hate the casual fan in the least.
I get that they pay the bills, and my wife is the textbook definition of “casual fan”.
I hate the fact that the sheer numbers of casual fans cause a paralytic stasis in the front office. I know that the president won’t be here forever, but the pace of that “not foreverness” is not fast enough for any of us – it’s like a corporation whose balance sheet looks great on the surface but once you go the next level deep you see it’s all propped up with that twine and duct tape.
The Mariners are not going to be six months away from moving for a while now, so why should even those casual fans sit back and accept the world’s most poorly run baseball team?
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Aug 15, 2008 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, it's still not on the casual fans...
It’s the dopes who pay far too much attention to the casual fans.
You win a 100 games, you’ll GET the casual fans. It’s automatic.
It’s the dopey front office that doesn’t seem to get that. Or that you sometimes can take a short term loss for a much larger long term gain. BLame THEM for their paralysis, not the casual fans.
by rtang on Aug 15, 2008 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the point I was clumsily trying to make
I don’t blame casual fans for anything, it’s all on the front office.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Aug 15, 2008 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still say that they don't NEED to cause the stasis you're talking about
They showed up once the team built a stadium and won 116. Now, there’s nothing the team can do to be rid of them (thankfully).
So now, baseline revenue is X. This season has caused revenue to drop by Y.
Anyone can see that X is better than X-Y, so even if X-Y=a lot of cash there’s still plenty of reason for the front office to be concerned. The casual fans willingness to spend should not cause stasis! It might make movement a bit slower, but it also means that that we can avoid the 10-year nightmare of Pittsburgh/Kansas City.
by marc w on Aug 15, 2008 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I completely agree with you on that, believe me
I know they don’t NEED to cause that stasis, and your “X-Y = a lot of cash” is completely true, but all the anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that it has. Which is the root of my frustration.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Aug 15, 2008 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just remember...
…one of the things that HowChuck is looking for in a GM and a manager is to shut up and smile when their bosses do something stupid, even when ( or particularly when) the GM or manager knows infinitely more about baseball than Howie or Chuck.
by rtang on Aug 14, 2008 9:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My grandmother knows more about baseball than Howie or Chuck
and she’s been dead since 2003.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Aug 14, 2008 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just made the mistake of wading into Baker's blog comments.I feel so cold.
I just made the mistake of wading into Baker’s blog comments. Someone, in all seriousness, wrote this:
OPS? why combine two fictiticious stats into one inane one? us ba or rbi
I have no words…
by Pet Rock on Aug 14, 2008 9:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We've had enough fun with that this week.
by BrianL on Aug 14, 2008 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That said
It still surprises me that there are so many people who don’t understand what the other two sets of numbers in the slash line are.
by BrianL on Aug 14, 2008 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Many people don't get a kick out of sifting through lines of data.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also many people are profoundly stupid.
by Graham on Aug 14, 2008 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No kidding.
All that means? How often do you avoid getting out? How far do you hit the ball when you do hit it?
Damn simple.
by rtang on Aug 14, 2008 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lack of interest is a consideration
unless they are acting like know it all pricks.
I watch every Seahawks game and I couldn’t name 75% of the players or all the positions on the field.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
John Morgan has helped me with my football knowledge deficiency.
However, the slash line is far, far, far less complicated than explaining the duties of a nickelback or the differences in the 3-4 and 4-3 defenses.
by BrianL on Aug 14, 2008 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said
unless they are acting like know it all pricks, don’t worry. You can enjoy a sport without being a minor expert on the subject.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was a dark place
They really don’t like Beltre.
by Pet Rock on Aug 14, 2008 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm giving Baker the HH treatment.
"All I’ve ever done is be Juan Pierre when I wear this jersey. They’re sticking it to me this year for whatever reason. "
.280/.324/.316
~Juan Pierre
by Goose on Aug 14, 2008 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that doug is one of us.
Or Adam being snarky.
by Faux on Aug 15, 2008 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"OPS? why combine two fictiticious stats into one inane one? us ba or rbi"
What? I… what?
by great gonzalez on Aug 15, 2008 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I apparently have no preview button, either.
by Pet Rock on Aug 14, 2008 9:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Copy-paste
With a little help from gin-tonic
by Pet Rock on Aug 14, 2008 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Name this Ex-Mariners starting pitcher!
SPLITS G GS CG IP H R ER HR BB SO W L SV HLD BLSV WHIP ERA
Season 17 0 0 25.0 23 9 7 1 1 11 1 1 0 1 0 0.96 2.52
by tyreni51 on Aug 14, 2008 9:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Beers + Copy and Paste = Contentment
But that’s close. It would be the current stat-line of one Horacio Ramirez. (After he was traded this season.)
by tyreni51 on Aug 14, 2008 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's pretty good.
We should pick him up in the offseason as a setup guy for JJ
by Pet Rock on Aug 14, 2008 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Mariners are idiots
for asking for one of the twins starters back, all of who have better tRA numbers then Washburn, then aren’t the Twins also pretty stupid for wanting him in the first place which would be a downgrade for them?
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
by MfaninAlaska on Aug 14, 2008 9:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Washburn is an asset if you ignore the contract.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff says he's a below average pitcher
How does that make him any kind of asset contract or no contract…. especially when every starter they have is better then Washburn and there are 6 listed before Washburn. It makes no sense.
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
by MfaninAlaska on Aug 14, 2008 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is a stable source of innings
and can survive 6 innings without getting destroyed. As a fifth starter that has value.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is below average valuable to the twins
when they have 6 other starting pitchers that are better?
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
by MfaninAlaska on Aug 14, 2008 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
10 million dollars worth of depth?
that seems like not a very smart move.
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
by MfaninAlaska on Aug 14, 2008 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Liriano insurance
*blocking the Yankees, White Sox
*going to the playoffs in a year where they were expected to lose
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because the Yankees can't pick him up?
And they don’t use tRA?
by Graham on Aug 14, 2008 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So if teams don't use tRA
and at least a few teams were interested in Washburn for the stretch run, wouldn’t it make sense (since he has some value) that at least a couple teams would still have interest in him during the off-season, when either the price can be lowered because the M’s have a new GM in place?
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
by MfaninAlaska on Aug 14, 2008 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps
but there is generally much less desperation in the offseason as opposed to now. This is the best chance they could have ever hoped for. To jettison Washburn in November you probably have to take on someone else’s problem.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't wait to see who we trade Batista for.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
God no
too many years.
You need a player that has one year and/or ~$7m left on his contract.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Needs different position unless Schmidt is being used as a setup man.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus Schmidt hasn't even pitched this year
so Batista (in the hands of someone not retarded) is probably a less bad player to have.
He still throws 90-92. He’s been pitching hurt and ,given an offseason of healing, he may regain enough control/command to be a not horrible relief pitcher next season.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's 2 MPH down from last year- he hit 94 regularly.
But fine: Carl Pavano.
by eponymous_coward on Aug 14, 2008 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see how that makes sense since Pavano makes more money
and the Yankees cant be that desperate to unload him.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Schmidt as a PR, to replace Washburn
See, THAT’S why they didn’t trade him. Now that Gritty Bear is done for the year, they need Washburn to PR…
by eponymous_coward on Aug 14, 2008 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Less desperation
But more delusion. Someone might think that they are one pitcher away and that they have spotted a way to “fix” Washburn. If the Mariners were really just wiling to dump his salary for almost nothing in return, they might be able to get it done. Well, if they get a totally new FO, anyway.
by ubelmann on Aug 14, 2008 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doubtful
A team like St. Louis that typically builds it’s rotation around these type reclamation projects unusally spends next to nothing on the pitchers they try to fix.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm thinking of bad teams getting impatient
Not teams that consistently finish above .500 and have a WS in the recent past. It only takes one sucker, after all.
by ubelmann on Aug 14, 2008 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Washburn is essentially a rotation band-aid at this point
Overpaid, but you know what you’re getting – a back end starter who doesn’t get hurt, occasionally goes on a roll and sometimes gets his ass handed to him. That’s more useful in-season when teams are banged up and there aren’t any good pitchers left on the market than in the offseason when there are much better options for putting a staff together.
That said, I think you’re right in that most teams would be crazy to take him on due to his contract being so stupid. Might be worth it to NY right now, but they can grab all the free agents they like in October. Better for us to safely dump him now than hope we get something back for him later and risk being saddled with him.
by Graham on Aug 14, 2008 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if you are saddled with him,
its likely for less then a half season since he’d be in the final year of his contract, and would likely at that point draw more interest in a deal since a team wouldn’t be saddled.
At the point of the off-season, I think he becomes just as much a commodity as some of the free agents on the market because, it is a one year contract. Multiple teams aren’t going to be bidding on his services, and he could be package in a similar fashion to the Vidro deal where you send busted up prospects, or low level prospects and eat some salary.
I’m by no means in favor of keeping Washburn around, but with the situation the M’s are in, with Batista being as horrible as he’s been. The uncertainty of Morrow.. not alot of pitching depth in the minors, that just flushing him for the sake of it during the tenure of an interim GM seems like not as horrible as its portrayed.
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
by MfaninAlaska on Aug 14, 2008 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he becomes just as much a commodity as some of the free agents on the market because, it is a one year contract.
In a sense this is correct, but you are still going to have to eat some money or take on a negative asset to move him.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have the following pitchers available to start:
Felix, Bedard, Silva, Washburn, Batista, RRS, Dickey, Morrow.
Not to mention the good pitchers on the free agent market (Sheets, Burnett). I think dumping him to open up a rotation spot for Dickey or Morrow is a pretty easy call, because you’re going to get comparable production for 1/30th the price.
by Graham on Aug 14, 2008 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate Ben Sheets because he is ridiculously good.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
___________
Felix, Bedard, Silva,Washburn,Batista, RRS, Dickey, Morrow.
If you add Sheets my guess is that RRS goes to the pen.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't Dickey considered a Free Agent
because he was a Rule 5 pickup?
Not that I know how that whole Rule 5 stuff actually works.
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
by MfaninAlaska on Aug 14, 2008 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Mariners have the following pitchers to potentially be in their rotation for 2009, as of now:
Felix Hernandez
Erik Bedard
Jarrod Washburn
Miguel Batista
Carlos Silva
RA Dickey
Ryan Rowland Smith
Ryan Feierabend
Brandon Morrow
Call me crazy, but somehow, losing one guy out of those nine players during the middle of a season that’s toast anyway isn’t going to make me lose any sleep. Washburn is not demonstrably better than ANY of them, and he’s grossly overpaid. The Mariners could replace him with a late spring training signing, if they had to.
by eponymous_coward on Aug 14, 2008 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Needed more Feierabend.
Who, by the way, is Jarrod Washburn, except without an 11 million dollar contract for 2009.
by eponymous_coward on Aug 14, 2008 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not necessarily saying to keep Washburn
My only concern is just throwing him away for nothing… I think the problem was the M’s asked for too much in return, but that can change in the off-season.
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
by MfaninAlaska on Aug 14, 2008 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The possible reward of a B-prospect is massively offset by the risk of having to pay him $10M to pitch for us next year.
by Graham on Aug 14, 2008 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can buy several B prospects with ten million dollars.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reasoning with this FO is like reasoning with Homer Simpson's brain.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
10 Million dollars
can buy many peanuts.
by Pet Rock on Aug 14, 2008 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Explain how?
Fuckin' Richie Sexson man!
by TheBishop on Aug 14, 2008 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Money can be exchanged
for goods and services.
by Pet Rock on Aug 15, 2008 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
11 million to spend in 2009 isn't nothing.
And the problem is that in the offseason, all the free agents flood the market. Which would you pick- Jarrod Washburn for 11 million, or Randy Wolf for 4.5 million?
by eponymous_coward on Aug 14, 2008 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If picking him up
lets them get rid of a Batista-esque pitcher from the bullpen, then it helps.
by Pet Rock on Aug 14, 2008 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think its time to apply this old favorite to the whole organization rather than a single former pitcher

by Fett42 on Aug 14, 2008 9:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We never used Thornton in a high leverage game.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Technically we hadn't been eliminated.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My clearest memory of Thorton was when I was at this game live
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SEA/SEA200504050.shtml
And we were beating Santana at the time.
by Fett42 on Aug 14, 2008 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Late
And it kinda pisses me off that Dobbs would be an asset to this team.
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not late if it a reply to the same thing
It’s just stupidity.
by Fett42 on Aug 14, 2008 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh and check out our starting infield the first time we beat Pedro:
Hansen
Lopez
Morse
Bloomquist
(after Sexson got ejected in the 3rd)
by Fett42 on Aug 14, 2008 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we all go the the park together
one day wearing Paper Bags with Washburn written on them in Sharpie?
by SaberR on Aug 14, 2008 10:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You can stand next to guys guys handing out 9/11 conspiracy pamphlets
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well played
Determined, Jonesing Commentor
by I'm NOT Corco on Aug 14, 2008 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now...
imagine this level of ineptitude, except that whenever any player gets good enough to make more than a minimum-wage dishwasher in salary, they get traded somewhere else. Oh, and the team plays in a domed stadium with 7,000 fans showing up to the game.
That was the Mariners in the 1980’s.
by eponymous_coward on Aug 14, 2008 10:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No, because I wasn't a beat writer, and the Interweb was still only used by researchers, mostly.
I did write an article for the local SABR publication bitching that there was this third baseman in Calgary they needed to call up, though, and pointing out the team needed OBP like the Mariner front office needs a brain transplant.
by eponymous_coward on Aug 14, 2008 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was pissed when I found out that Tartabull was once ours.
Tartabull/Griffey/Buhner would have kicked so much ass
9 = 8
by JI on Aug 14, 2008 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey we got Bankhead AND Kingery for that!
facepalm
Also, I liked the fact that Jose Tartabull said Danny must have gotten his power from his mom.
by eponymous_coward on Aug 14, 2008 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scott Bankhead was a decent MOR starter
And don’t forget we ALSO picked up the immortal Steve Shields in that deal.
by marc w on Aug 15, 2008 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff, you are the voice in my head.
Well said.
If your life had a face, I'd punch it in the balls.
by royalcurve on Aug 14, 2008 10:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Told you so : (
They actually value Washburn.
Jeff, if you got into the Seahawks a little bit more, you would be shocked the difference in Front Offices. The short period I was in Seattle due to NFL draft analysis (free trip), I went to a get together with a bunch of Seahawk fans, and the Seahawks were nice enough to send a couple front office execs to hang out, have a few drinks, and give out free stuff (I won a shirt). Bryce Fisher was also supposed to be there, but was traded a week prior.
Point is, the Mariners FO seriously dont care about the fans. They never have. Their arrogance has said it all. Their consistency says it all. With the Sonics leaving, it sorta hurts us even more, since we’re down to two teams. Mariners never had a summer threat to begin with, so there will always be butts in seats.
If they cared about the franchise, why was Johjima extended? Why would they continuously cripple the franchise? Whether it was for their personal opinion, the owner’s decision, or sheer stupidity, they have shown zero regret for anything they have done. They continue to lift their noses at the fans, refusing to listen to suggestion.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. Are they insane? Or collective assholes cashing easy paychecks ignoring the cries of a dying fanbase?
by Slica on Aug 14, 2008 11:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Its just scary thinking...
The Seahawks have arguably the most fan-friendly front office in the NFL. They really go all out for the fans and for the good of the team.
For example, if the Mariners ran the Seahawks, Shaun Alexander would still be in uniform. Whether you are pro-Alexander or not, the Hawks had the balls to let him go for the good of the franchise. The Mariners would of kept him to milk every dime from Hawk fans.
Money > Winning
by Slica on Aug 14, 2008 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff
Essay, but beautifully written I don’t post on LL often, but generally want AL West teams to excel (define that as mutilate, spindle, and trash the AL East and survive the AL Central). This season underscores how hard it is to keep on believin’.
Down here, we’ll lead the planet in runs scored, yet maybe give up 1,000 runs against. However bad your pitching assessment is, a couple of your rejects would start 2-3 for Texas. True, some kids are getting painful baptisms (4 of them). But for now, Padilla is about the only “starting pitcher” we’ve got. Lots of very young talent in the minors, but can’t cash any of ’em at the pay window yet.
Anyhow, I hope the M’s front office is overhauled. The only other AL West team I have rooted for in the past, and other than Adam’s, yours is the only SBN blog I follow.
Don’t give up crafting blogmatter telling it like it is.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Aug 14, 2008 11:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Jarrod Washburn's favorite Olympic event is women's gymnastics
by Nick S on Aug 14, 2008 11:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He's probably enjoying the chinese girls, I mean, women.
JI/Robert '08!
by Fin on Aug 15, 2008 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Salvation is coming soon.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Aug 14, 2008 11:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I've never been more thankful for the Seahawks.
In a year where we’ve lost our NBA team and our MLB team is clearly run by delusional old men who don’t know a damn thing about the game, it is absolutely wonderful to have a team that A. is good, B. actually seems to care about it’s fans, and C. is headed up by an intelligent front office and a passionate owner.
by Omerta on Aug 14, 2008 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am flattered to see someone besides me use this.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Aug 15, 2008 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you Jeff
I don’t comment much, but that was the single greatest post I have ever read, about the team I love and hate so damn much. Thank you.
by Mauiners on Aug 15, 2008 12:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I sometimes wondered how the CUBS fans manage. Or Boston fans use to.
Honestly, it isn’t that hard to image what their pain must be like.
by mark sobba on Aug 15, 2008 12:39 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No, they've at least been competitive and reasonably well run at times - just horrifically unlucky
The ♥ Jose Lopez ♥ Watch - 147 H, 16 BB, 42 G Left
by seattlebruin on Aug 15, 2008 6:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Surely it should be have been "Bill" paying $80 dollars for the sandwich? ;-)
In all seriousness though, great writing: love it.
by Alex B on Aug 15, 2008 1:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Great rant but like the M's 25 man, no one here is going anywhere
by Gomez on Aug 15, 2008 8:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I haven't watched a game in almost three weeks.
I don’t have any in my plans, either. Instead, I’ve been watching a smorgasbord of East/Central games and getting to bed early. I feel much better. Watching good general baseball is better than turning on this team and being reminded how screwed we are in the long term. I can be a baseball fan and a LL participant w/o actually rooting for this team anymore. LL is pretty much the only thing still attaching me to this team anymore.
by Faux on Aug 15, 2008 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which belies the notion that this is the breaking point
by Gomez on Aug 15, 2008 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You love that word
This isn’t the breaking point. This is another step towards the breaking point. And the breaking point does exist.
by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 15, 2008 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we can all agree on what it is too
I don’t even have to say it.
by Gomez on Aug 15, 2008 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aside from the obvious one
there are several theoretically possible breaking points of which we can’t even conceive.
by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 15, 2008 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never said it was.
And for the record, I don’t agree there is a “breaking point”. Good or bad actions still arouse passion, anger or otherwise.
Jeff may shut it down when Felix goes onto FA, but he’ll still be a fan, because of anger.
It’s what’s after the anger is what kills the fandom. I’ve been angry at this team so many times, but lately I’ve been exactly as Jeff has described it so many times, in a type of apathy. It’s gotten to the point where I don’t really care what they do either way, because I know they aren’t going to go in the right direction.
Fandom on good teams is easy, you’re winning. Fandom on mediocre teams is almost as easy, there’s always a light at the end of the tunnel, that you’ll get better. Fandom on a team that actively roots against its’ own interests is the hardest thing to do, because that light is so small you can’t even see it. It takes special people, and I tip my cap every day to the fans of those teams.
by Faux on Aug 15, 2008 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the Mariners saying:
“If we had 10 million dollars and had another chance, we’d sign Jarrod Washburn next year”
That is phenomenal. They really think they can’t spend that $10 million any better? They were given that simple option and reiterated why they are fucking morons.
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Aug 15, 2008 9:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It gets a bit worse.
But that wasn’t enough for the Mariners. They are convinced Washburn has value on the trade market. The Yankees were willing to take the contract off their hands in late July, but the deal fell through because the Mariners wanted talent in return.
I received indications that the Twins offered Boof Bonser. Makes sense, as he is out of minor-league options, and the Twins would need to clear a spot for Washburn. As I wrote recently, Bonser is only 26, and it makes sense for a team that is way out of the race to let Bonser make 10 starts down the stretch.
http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/christensen/2008/08/15/sorting-through-this-waiver-madness/
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 15, 2008 10:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Just a bit.
I figured they were holding out for Liriano.
by Faux on Aug 15, 2008 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They wanted Slowey.
A 24 year old with a sub-4 tRA. At least they identified talent on the other team.
The problem is that they think Washburn’s as good as Slowey.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
by Llewdor on Aug 15, 2008 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't pick on little Jarrod!
Don’t be so hard on Little Jarrod. He has a sterling 7-21 record since last year’s All-Star break after all. One of the many real experts on the Mariner Fan Forum said it best when he stated : “Washburn would win 20 games on a good team if he got run support.” I had to think about that for a moment as ,according to my calculations, he is 23-41 since signing with the M’s. I believe it a bargain that it only has cost the Mariners 27 million to get 23 wins, That is about average for the league isn’t it? So be nice. We should all chip in and get little Jarrod and Silvia some nice participation ribbons for trying so hard for all of us. Oh, last question—what kind of sandwich was it.
by blackie44 on Aug 16, 2008 11:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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