Attention, Mr.'s Silva & Baker
by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 11, 2008 12:09 PM PDT
in Miscellaneous
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PrintBad teams play bad. Telling a bad team to play better is like telling an apple to knit.
Quit claiming that players who worked hard enough to make it all the way to the Majors Leagues suddenly stopped caring and come to terms with the fact that they just aren't very good.
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How the hell would you know
Have you ever been in a major league clubhouse? Jerk.
by Graham MacAree on Aug 11, 2008 12:16 PM PDT reply actions
That's modern society for you, where effort is more important than contribution
and everyone is equal, so effort therefore EQUALS contribution.
Mr. Incredible had it right: it’s just another way to celebrate mediocrity.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
haha...
Tell that to the Tank kings, Mr. Manny Ramirez and Mr. Randy Johnson that last half season he was with the Ms.
You mean
the Manny Ramirez who hit .400/.500/.727 in his last 15 games before Boston traded him? The guy tanked by being the best hitter on earth for two weeks?
Or the Randy Johnson who had a 3.35 FIP in 1998 and was striking out 12 batters per nine innings.
The media narratives about stuff like this are almost never true.
by davidcameron on Aug 11, 2008 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I actually do think Manny was "tanking" after a fashion.
Not in the sense of performing poorly on the field (whenever he’s out there he’ll play to the best of his abilities), but rather in the sense of taking himself out of games against good pitchers and in causing scenes and clubhouse drama.
The Randy Johnson thing is complete bullshit, though. That guy never gave up on anything in his life.
"Maybe Chief has to go and grab somebody from his neck and throw him into the wall."
To be honest...
My comment was rather tongue-in-cheek, I should’ve let my sarcasm shine through a bit more. I was listening to KJR this morning and that’s all Mitch in the Morning seemed to talk about with Jason Stark.
I guess next time I won’t try such a thinly lackadaisical jab.
I hope you were as drunk as I was this morning.
I went to work still drunk from Sunday. My hangover started kicking in at 10:00am. So I decided to start drinking.
Does this make me a bad person? Or just enlightened?
It makes you inconsistent
if you stay drunk, there’s no hangover.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
Freddy sans the Mary Tyler Moore spoof hopefully
Sorry, but I cannot afford being linked to that bag of bones. It’d drop my cool factor from 0 to -20 right quick.
Though I can understand why Mitch would get the impression
1998 Houston Astros 10 1 1.28 11 11 4 4 0 — 84.1 57 12 12 4 3 26 116
1998 Seattle Mariners 9 10 4.33 23 23 6 2 0 -- 160.0 146 90 77 19 11 60 213
Horrible posting of statistics there.
But the Mariners were favorites to win TEH AL WEST!
Clearly lack of effort and “White Line Fever” are the reasons this team currently has the same record after 118 games as the 2004 Mariners. Thank God we have people like Silva calling the team out for playing bad. Thank God for Baker for backing him up. This is just what we need to go on a 12-game winning streak so we can only be 16 games under .500.
Speaking of “16” that just happens to be our Elimination Number. We’re going to be the first team eliminated from playoff contention by far.
I can see through your thinly veiled knitting reference...
Bad leadership!
Good God
That “additional comment” that Baker made to Brett is possibly the most blatantly condescending and blog-hating thing I’ve ever seen him write.
That man is threatened by those who know more and is desperately clinging to the buoy that clubhouse access provides in hopes that he doesn’t drown.
What a shitty, shitty blog entry.
Fuckin' Richie Sexson man!
Wow.
For Brett Miller, in the comments thread, how am I “enabling” Silva? He said what he did in front of me and a bunch of other reporters. We didn’t coach him. These are his feelings, spoken by a guy, who, unlike you, is a part of the team. You might think you know more than he does about the inner workings of the Mariners, but you don’t. That’s a fact. Admit I’m wrong? About what? About reporting on what Silva said and saying that - having followed this team up-close all season - I agree with him? How is that wrong? Better yet, how would you be in a position to know?The fact that you, or other fans, some of whom run blogs, have a problem with what he said really isn’t my concern. Do you want me to tell you this season has been about “poor talent” as opposed to underachievement? That “poor talent” won 88 games last year. So, unless you’re prepared to admit that the 2007 M’s should have won only 65 games, this year’s team is an underachiever.
You’re still stuck in the “I was right” and “you were wrong” mode. That’s for kids. Those of us paid to figure out what’s wrong with this team and actually talk to people who are a part of it - both on and off the record - have moved on and been trying for months to tell you that this whole season’s failures run deeper than a non-producing first baseman or right fielder. It’s a collective inability to rise to the occasion when it matters.
Fuck Geoff Baker.
"All I’ve ever done is be Juan Pierre when I wear this jersey. They’re sticking it to me this year for whatever reason. "
.280/.324/.316
~Juan Pierre
Baker's other hobby seems to be beating up strawmen.
The fact that you, or other fans, some of whom run blogs, have a problem with what he said really isn’t my concern. Do you want me to tell you this season has been about “poor talent” as opposed to underachievement? That “poor talent” won 88 games last year. So, unless you’re prepared to admit that the 2007 M’s should have won only 65 games, this year’s team is an underachiever.
Yea, because the teams in 2007 and 2008 are exactly the same.
But please. Just know this one thing: Silva’s comments may have surprised some folks in the blogosphere. But they were not much of a surprise to me, or plenty of others who have been around this team for any length of time.
Who’s surprised at Silva’s comments? Most of us are pissed off because a guy who’s getting paid $48 Million over 4 years that’s sucking badly this season is calling the team out for lack of effort (as opposed to just being bad).
We’re not still hung-up on who predicted what in March. We’ve moved on. We’re tackling the big stuff now. It’s not part of a mass conspiracy against you or blogs. It’s about trying to tell you stuff you may or may not already know.
Who in the world is talking about predictions in March? WE’RE the ones saying that this is a bad team. We’re not hung up on “this team was supposed to be a contender” or “this team was favored to win the AL West” or “this team lacks leadership, someone’s actually stepped up.”
No one cares about those projections because this team is underperforming all of them. No matter what we thought coming into this season we’ve accepted the fact that this is a bad team. We’re at a point where we’re just trying to see what parts we can use for the future (kids up, RRS/Morrow being converted to starter).
Come on, Baker. Let it go. This season is gone. Supporting people who call out the team doesn’t solve anything.
I usually don't respond to crap like that but I out-essayed him. I feel dirty for posting there in the first place
But he can be sure I’ll never do it again.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Aug 11, 2008 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Don't expect much of a response from Baker.
I’ve got five bucks that all you’ll get from him is a “Don’t let the virtual door hit you on the way out.”
Meh, he made himself look like enough of a fool already. Anything he says back just hurts his credibility.
As it is, I’m not going to indulge him anymore. That’s the end of it on my end
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Aug 11, 2008 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Calling him Pocket Lint was a bit much, wasn't it?
I mean, Geoff’s been awful lately, but he’s not really Finnigan bad, is he?
You're getting a rec from me here for the comments there.
Baker has really turned up the rhetoric recently, and it’s nice to see someone take him down a peg.
by Faux on Aug 11, 2008 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't light a match in his blog - the straw men will catch on fire
I gave up on his blog today. I think it will take a mass drop in readership to get it through to him that he’s focusing on the wrong things, and that he’s not actually reading what’s posted.
I wonder what the equivalent to Baghead Day is for a blog?
Extra work during the season....
There have been some references in the media hinting that Yuni is unwilling to put in “extra” work to improve on areas like bunting. Is this kind of work strictly voluntary and up to the player in question once the season is in progress? Shouldn’t a manager tell the player to show up early or plan to stay late to work on bunting drills?
by Man From Nantucket on Aug 11, 2008 1:55 PM PDT reply actions
Ultimately, the player has a lot of leverage
if replacing him and his production would be a giant pain in the ass, which in Yuni’s case it would be.
The blogosphere is falling apart
We need some good character posters to right the ship
We need more John Olerud type posters.
I hear that guy was a class act or something.
and you can play anywhere from commenter to moderator
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
I'll say it is.
Adam is ripping into Brett right now.
This is just one ugly event.
Yes I am
Because he deserves it.
Honestly, people – if you don’t like Baker’s analysis, don’ read the blog. It’s not that hard…
That blog post was borderline OK until Geoff decided to call Brett out in the main blog post entry.
That is hardly a classy thing to do. He could have easily ignored it and we could have been spared from this meaningless and petty blog war.
There’s plenty of blame to go around today.
You know...
Geoff puts up with a lot of crap. It’s a blog with his name on it, and just about everyday there’s some knucklehead on there demeaning him in some way. And 99 times out of 100, Geoff doesn’t respond.
But BrettJMiller called into question his journalistic integrity, and Geoff had every right to call him on it.
You know I rarely agree with Baker about anything, but I’m glad he stuck up for himself, even if he went overboard a bit.
Mr. Baker is pandering tabloid sensationalism as journalism.
How Mr. Silva feels about his team mates is not ‘news’. Getting a reaction, negative or positive, is the point of what Mr. Baker is doing. In the tabloids, any response is a good response, it simply means people are reading and paying attention. This is all that is necessary to sell ads.
It's a blog, dude.
I think of Baker’s blog like any other. No topic that would be discussed here should be beneath it. If he thinks people will take interest in it (and they certainly did), why not put it up?
Is it just me, or is this AJ trade looking worse every day?
by The Alaskan on Aug 12, 2008 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not going to defend Brett
but I’m not going to defend Baker either. The manner in which he defended himself was, as you put it, way overboard and drove that thread completely and utterly off-topic. There were ways he could have handled it that would have been far more professional than petty name calling and thinly veiled swipes at other blogging communities.
On the other hand (now that I’ve had a chance to reflect a bit) Brett was out of line, too. The “enabling” argument was a stretch at best and outright rude at worst.
However, the responsibility ultimately lies with Geoff to keep his community a somewhat civil place. His addendum to that blog post immediately cited another pointless flame war.
Like I said, there is plenty of blame to go around today.
Why do we care that Baker takes swipes at us?
Seriously, guys. This is a analytical community. Do we really care what a journalist thinks? If Baker wants to declare war on reality, so be it. But that doesn’t mean we have to give a damn. Give his ‘analysis’ the HH treatment and suddenly all the strife goes away.
It doesn’t matter.
Deep breaths.
Smile.
by Graham MacAree on Aug 11, 2008 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's the Angels SBN blog. Sort of the inverse of here.
We try not to talk about it, quote from it, or link it.
by Graham MacAree on Aug 11, 2008 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks.
Angels. Say no more, even though I keep telling myself that another decade or so of this kind of shit, and I’m going to switch allegiance, as my soul is already decidedly going to hell, being an A’s fan while I’m alive isn’t going to change anything. At least I’ll get to see a winner for a bit, and I’ll get plenty of the M’s in hell.
"an" analytical community
The ♥ Jose Lopez ♥ Watch - 146 H, 16 BB, 44 G Left
by seattlebruin on Aug 12, 2008 6:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Where is this happening? Your living room or a public place I can watch?
I wanna see it!! Jesus, I’m getting sucked in.
I really wish this town had some worthwhile reporters.
Where are our Hal McCoy’s, Si Burick’s, Red Smith’s?
Baker is a good reporter, it is his analysis that isn't good.
If he reported Silva’s rant without adding in how much he agreed with Silva and his passive agressive comments towards USSM/LL, there wouldn’t be any negative comments toward Baker.
Larry Stone is good.
Winter meetings.
That’s the best example of Good Baker.
Larry Stone is awesome.
Baker just needs to STFU and be a reporter.
"All I’ve ever done is be Juan Pierre when I wear this jersey. They’re sticking it to me this year for whatever reason. "
.280/.324/.316
~Juan Pierre
Why?
If you don’t like his analysis – don’t click on the link that says “Mariners blog.”
Since that’s the only place you’ll find analysis from Baker, it’s not that hard to do. His game reports are free of analysis.
It’s not that difficult. Grow up.
Ignoring Goose isn't that difficult either.
Take your own advice.
by Graham MacAree on Aug 11, 2008 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Is Baker the type to actively goad players into making statements?
This is what I’m sensing from people that post here and elsewhere, but I don’t read Baker’s stuff. I’m getting the impression my time is better spent elsewhere.
Brett's responded with an excellent post of his own.
"All I’ve ever done is be Juan Pierre when I wear this jersey. They’re sticking it to me this year for whatever reason. "
.280/.324/.316
~Juan Pierre
This is why I love it here
I can hear all about the steaming pile of trainwreck that is the Times and PI M’s coverage without actually having to read any of it.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
I am not convinced that was particularly effective.
Saying things like “You shouldn’t judge Yuni or Lopez just based on Silva’s comments, because you don’t know what’s in their heads” and “Carlos Silva is a fat arrogant jerk”... well, Baker’s not allowed to make judgments of people based on interactions in the clubhouse and watching the team, but fans are?
I actually agree (to some extent) with Baker’s thesis that this team has basically thrown in the towel at times (and certain players are sort of showing it). I also think the team’s talent level was WAAAAAAAY overestimated at the beginning of the year by folks like Baker, and it’s quite easy to use character-based reasons (“They don’t execute and have crappy attitudes”) as a primary explanation, when you see results that are so far out of expectations, than to go “perhaps our expectations of the team’s talent level were a bit off”.
This is not to say that I think Silva’s rant was legitimate (he has no excuse, performance-wise, as he’s a quite large part of the giant pile of FAIL that is the 2008 Mariners)... but yeah, I do think there are problems with the team that go beyond talent. Of course, what this REALLY says is the Bavasi/Armstrong/Lincoln/Pelekoudas brain trust doesn’t know jack about “chemistry” OR “new school GM”.
by eponymous_coward on Aug 11, 2008 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm probably saying this in a convoluted manner but
I think there’s a difference between looking at a player making a fielding mistake as evidence that he isn’t trying (since players routinely fail despite their best efforts) and reading a player’s threats to assault a teammate as evidence of him being an asshole. If a guy takes a verbal shit on his teammates in the press, I’m pretty comfortable making judgments about his character.
I doubt Baker is coming to this conclusion just based on one fielding mistake by Lopez or Yuni
That being said, turning the team into Starting Pitchers vs. Middle Infield isn’t all that hot. When combined with the repeated throwing of Kenji under the bus… well, it’s ugly.
The part that scares me is that this might mean we’ll give away Lopez for nothing ala Carlos Guillen…
by eponymous_coward on Aug 11, 2008 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions
They haven't had a post in about a month
so maybe this’ll get ‘em back up and running.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
DOV's apparently AWOL tending to personal business
so I wouldn’t expect a post for the foreseeable future.
I'm actually pretty sad DoV hasn't posted anything new other than Scapular Loading
And what really astounds me is the actual Seattle Mariners blogosphere… For such a horrible team, I can’t think of another MLB team that has the kind of bloggers we have.
Dedication baby.
Now where’s my libation.
Far more to do with the tech nature of the city (also see A's blogs and the Valley)
than with the team.
Yeah definitely man.
I wouldn’t expect any less out of the Seattle area considering its technological roots, I just think it’s awesome. There are at least 5 sites out there, most of which have a distinct feel and crowd. I’m a tweener to be honest, I love information wherever it comes from. And there are so many awesome writers out here with great perspective, it’s really great being a blog fan around these parts. It seems as though there’s something for everyone. And even at that point, we all can come together as M’s fans.
Jesus I love sports. Not that this is a popular subject round these parts, but I will surely miss the Sonics. I kind of pride myself on being able to converse with all the sports crowds in seattle without feeling like a complete ass. I mean… I’m a huskie’s fan, a cougs fan, a sounders fan, a seahawks fan, mariners fan… and am still a sonics fan, even if they are in OKC.S’ok though, more energy to put towards my sarcasm towards this mariner’s “team.” I mean holy hell how many more people are gonna get thrown under the bus? Was Silva excluding himself from his BS? To me, the only pitchers that have been worth a grain of salt are The King, RSS, Morrow, and MAYBE just MAYBE Green.
Poor Loss Vulture.
Tech nature of the city?
I take umbrage at this statement. This town was primarily blue collar when the M’s arrived, with plenty of logging remnants still hanging on, fishing industry the same, and Boeing laying on massive layoffs, but plenty of Boeing engineers, techs, and workers still in the area. And that’s just King county, even today there’s more to this state than just Seattle and tech. And they sucked back then for a long long long time, and I’m seeing worse crap right now from so called sports writer’s than ever before. Silva’s statement? Not worth reporting. Not one fucking word. It’s only stirring the pot, nothing less nothing more. The Northwest had and has deep roots of equanimity, it takes quite a bit of bullshit to get most people I grew up with to respond in a rude manner. Usually people responded to rudeness by being polite to a fault, on their way out the door, and that was as loud as a slap to the face.
I think he's talking about the preponderance of numbers oriented blogs.
J.K.L.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 11, 2008 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Well that I get.
When working as a commercial diver, you don’t exactly have much time to be blogging. Anyway, I just spent the last hour catching up on a randomly selected selection of Mr. Geoff Baker and his Blog. Whuppity doo. Do, do, spells doo doo. I was so inspired to not liking his crap I even told him how much and why. Not only that, what I’m going to do about it. No sense in trying to change him as a person. I’m telling you, I really showed him what for and then some, his britches are gonna be warm for a week. Wheee!
You are missing the point of my statement.
What the city was like in 1977 doesn’t matter re: the quantity and quality of team-centric blogs that populate the internet today.
The Seattle area is far advanced technology-wise compared to most areas of the country. That has a direct correlation with internet usage and savvy and with that, an acceptance of and more participation in, blogs.
I see where I incorrectly emphasized the wrong pieces of that.
I was responding to the nature, for lack of a more proper phrase, of people’s response to the teams’ losing. And not only the type and class of people populating the city in 1977, but now. There are a vast number of people in the city that are not ‘tech’. And there are more people that are invested in this team than just within this city. This was what I was getting at, based on erroneously interpreting your statement, I stand corrected. I get a little touchy if I think I sense or even think I sniff social stratification. I’ll try and check it at the door, it’s your party.
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