Deadline Day
by Jeff Sullivan on Jul 31, 2008 1:12 AM PDT
in Seattle Mariners News, Regular
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PrintAnd so it's upon us. The big story is, of course, the whole saga with Manny Ramirez, but Pelekoudas shouldn't be worrying about that, because he's got a lot of work to do, and - as of this writing - less than twelve hours to do it. It's going to be a busy day. I don't think he'll be sleeping in.
If the Mariners are to get any value in return for Jarrod Washburn, today's the day it's going to happen. Not only would waiting until August reduce the amount of difference he could make for another team, but waiver rules make anything other than a simple salary dump highly unlikely. Waiting until the offseason wouldn't make much sense in this regard, either, since there'll be so many other arms floating around. Now's the last chance for Pelekoudas to try and turn Washburn into something useful for the future. I wish him luck. And I do think he can do it, provided he backs down from his unreasonable previous demands. Although I should take this opportunity to re-state that all I really want is for Washburn to go away. I just want his salary and roster spot to be available going forward. So I'll try not to flip out too much if he isn't moved today, just because it won't be our last chance to dump him.
Arthur Rhodes should be shipped away for the best offer. Hands down. No point in keeping him.
Raul Ibanez is drawing interest, but Pelekoudas has affixed a high price tag, and for good reason. Not because he's a good player, but because the Elias free agent rankings think he's a good player. If he gets moved, it's because another front office caved at the last minute.
Adrian Beltre is drawing interest, but there's maybe a 1-in-25 chance that someone out there ponies up enough to pry him loose.
JJ is drawing interest, but Pelekoudas isn't about to sell at a value trench, so he'll only get traded if another GM pays as if he's been pitching effectively.
Not much else going on. But being that we possess two of the most highly sought-after players on the market, today should be anything but dull.
Just don't do anything stupid, Lee. It's all I ask.
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Indeed.
I’d be happy to see all of those but Beltre get shipped off today, but if Beltre ended up returning us a few top notch prospects, I’d even take that. Oh, and you forgot about Vidro. Somebody? Please? For a hot dog vendor?
vidro would eat that hot dog vendor
as he would smell the dogs all over him and go insane with gluttony
I think you're asking for too much
Maybe we should hope for a move that’s not franchise crippling. That’s a start, from there we’ll gradually ease into moves that are just stupid, then maybe in a while to moves that are neutral.
It's funny what a season of misery can do for you
If anyone on the 25 man who isn’t Ichiro, Felix, Beltre, Lopez or Clement gets traded, I’ll not bat an eyelid.
Bring on the fun.
The english Mariner who isn't EnglishMariner --- P3 W1 L2 (.333)
Sponsor of Jamie Burke's baseball-reference page
You'd bat an eyelid for Clement?
And for Lopez? I figure if we get good value for them, I wouldn’t mind seeing them go. This team killed my soul a long time ago. Really only trading Ichiro could hurt me now. I guess Felix and Beltre would hurt, but at this point I kind of expect it.
The crappy moves this team makes have become the only love I know anymore.
by Smegmalicious on Jul 31, 2008 2:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Washburn
Stupid would be to take what the Yankees are presumably offering—that warm body “prospect” for the privilege of the Yankees getting Washburn’s warm body and all his salary (which the Yankees will probably pawn off on someone else for 2 prospects plus draft picks).
Larry LaRue made a good point in his latest blog notes: the whole point of trading ANY of the current M’s roster is to IMPROVE the Mariners, not just divest a contract.
Granted, “salary relief” is some kind of an improvement, on paper, but only if the M’s plan on using that money to BUY other players. If they got a decent player/prospect in return, that player could either be added to the roster or turned around for yet another player.
There’s a lot more that needs to be done in improving this team, but trading for a useful player is more of a jump start than trading for a cipher who probably won’t make it out of AA ball—which is how I interpret what the Yankees have been offering.
Dumping Washburn's salary does improve the Mariners
That’s 14 million more you can spend on players who don’t suck ass like Wash does.
Dumping Washburn's salary is good.
Getting any mid-level prospect in return while dumping Washburn’s salary is fantastic.
I am still holding out hope we can move Yuni somehow.
As I type this “Thunderstruck” just started on my boss’ pandora radio. God I miss you dominant JJ.
Beltre Update:
The Minneapolis Star Tribune reports that the Mariners have asked for Nick Blackburn, Scott Baker, Kevin Slowey, Glen Perkins or Denard Span as part of a package for Adrian Beltre.
The Twins apparently won’t go that far for Beltre. It’s possible they’re focusing more on Brian Roberts at the moment, but he’s a long shot as well. They are shopping Boof Bonser and Craig Monroe, but they have to know they’re not going to reel in a big fish with that kind of bait. Perhaps Mark Grudzielanek is within reach.
-Rotoworld.
Good job Lee, if you deal Beltre, we'd better be getting a package like that back.
One Vision, One Purpose
Peace Through Power
I put up a Rumor FanPost
because I figured we should use this thread for Mariners’ news to avoid breaking people’s computers.
Go Nova
Washburn/Rockies Update
The Seattle Post Intelligencer reports that the Rockies were “shocked” when the Mariners asked for both Dexter Fowler and Casey Weathers in exchange for Jarrod Washburn.
No wonder the Yankees backed out of the rumored deal for Washburn. The newspaper also notes that the Mariners asked for “Jon Niese and/or Fernando Martinez or another top prospect” from the Mets, which is even more laughable.
-Rotoworld.
Good God Mariners, if someone wants the guy and is willing to take on the salary do it regardless. Any prospect is just bonus!
Assuming this is not a strategy--its the Mariners so its an accurate assumption—once again they show the inability to evaluate talent.
Inability to evaluate talent?
Color me….shocked.
Raul will probably not be a Met.
Says Newsday:
Team officials were skeptical, however, on completing a deal for either one before today’s 4 p.m. non-waiver trade deadline. One person familiar with the situation flatly stated the Mets would not deal any of their top prospects – Fernando Martinez, Jon Niese, Eddie Kunz or Bobby Parnell – for what they considered to be a two-month rental.
Who puts 4 prospects on an untouchable list? It doesn’t look like we will matc with them for Raul or JJ
Go Nova
Who puts 4 prospects on an untouchable list?
A team that values them?
You think Triunfel, Aumont, Halman or Juan Ramirez are available?
Yeah that makes sense.
I was thinking thought that those are their only guys with much trade value.
Also if we were buying I’m sure that we would make mor guys avaiable.
Go Nova
No, but we're sellers.
Not really applicable. Other teams need to understand that trading Ibanez comes with type A compensation. If they’re not willing to at least come close to type A compensation in return, then why the hell would the Mariners ever trade him?
Because an org's #5-10 prospects should suffice?
The M’s are acting in negotiations like Washburn’s more than a functional #4.
They shouldn't suffice.
Two Gaby Hernandez’s is not worth Raul Ibanez.
Which makes sense since this whole subthread was about Washburn.
Wait, no it wasn’t.
That's strange list
FMart, and Niese are understandable. Kunz, if you squint really hard, he throws hard. But Parnell? He’s crap.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
Rhodes ----> Marlins
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/07/arthur-rhodes-t.html
By the way…which is the favored trade thread? I double posted this.
the other angels fan
Mariners here.
Everything non-Mariners in the other…thats my understanding.
Gaby Hernandez turned 22 on 5/21/08. 6'3" 215 lb RHSP
This year he was hit hard in AAA.
IP: 64.2
H: 94
R: 59
ER: 52
HR: 14
BB: 26
K: 54
GO/AO: 1.01
He’s now in AA.
IP: 23.0
H: 21
R: 11
ER: 11
HR: 3
BB: 4
K: 17
GO/AO: 0.96
Go Nova
Love this for the M's.
I’ve seen Hernandez pitch a few times and I really like him. Great pickup for the M’s! 1 for 1, let’s make it at least 2 for 2 by day’s end, please.
by andrewgolfsalot on Jul 31, 2008 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Was rated roughly the Marlins #5 prospect this offseason.
This is a few years old, so I don’t know how relevant it is. But, it’s something.
Fastball. Hernandez throws both a 2-seam fastball and a 4-seam fastball. The 2-seam fastball, while a very good pitch right now, is a pitch Hernandez is looking to improve and throw with more confidence. He’s looking to learn to throw it outside and tail back in, much like Greg Maddux does. He throws his 4-seam fastball in the 90-93 MPH range, topping off at 94-95 MPH. He throws his fastball inside to righties and away from the lefties. He has excellent command of his fastball and is able to locate it very well.
Other Pitches. Hernandez has a fantastic changeup he throws in the 79-81 MPH and has a ton of confidence it. He’s able to throw it to any batter in any count and it currently serves as his out pitch. Hernandez compliments his repertoire with a very good curveball, a pitch he’s been able to improve dramatically in his short time with the Mets. He was throwing his curveball in the 70-71 MPH range and it had a very loopy action. He has been able to tighten the break and now throws a sharp breaking curveball in the 75-76 MPH.
Pitching. Hernandez has a solid repertoire, great command, and is a student of the game. As good as those traits are, it is his competitiveness on the mound and his attitude that makes him better than most pitchers. He is a bulldog on the mound and goes right after batters with great confidence and command of his pitches.
by andrewgolfsalot on Jul 31, 2008 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That sounds great. Thanks man.
Holy shit a good trade!
This guy sounds like he could really be something. I’d be curious to see where he ranks in our system…
Nice job Lee!
Go Nova
Yea.
I’m sitting here thinking, “So, this is what it feels like to think we got the better side of a deal.”
Weird, weird feeling.
by andrewgolfsalot on Jul 31, 2008 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions
I can't remember the last time we made a good trade.
It’s been at least 2 years or so, if not more.
Go Nova
From what I've read:
He has a 93-94 mph four-seam fastball with good command.
Good changeup. Breaking stuff still needs development.
Had maybe #3-#4 potential.
As been noted he has been lit up lately, but he is still young. I dont see him turning into anything special, but its better than I expected for Rhodes…especially knowing how easy it is to come by relievers in the first round of 52 round baseball drafts. He was replaceable.
Hopefully they dont convert Gaby to relief as well.
Well....
....only if they give him a good, long look as a starter….
Although...
...if you think about it, if Gaby is turned into a reliever, you just turned a 37 year old, possibly declining LOOGY into a 22/23 year old reliever. Still a good deal.
Gaby's probably going to end up a reliever barring a huge, unexpected step forward in his development
But I totally agree: this was a pleasant value return on Rhodes.
Walks are somewhat high as a starter
But he’s certainly got an ability to miss bats. He’s kept the walks down in a small sample at AA this year: if he can show sustained control and still miss bats without too many gophers, then you could well have a potential SP.
So he'd be a starter with above average walk totals
that isn’t the kiss of death or anything.
He’s 22 and seems to be doing fine in AA, and his BB rate in the minors is actually rather low.
Incidentally, his K rate is below league average for the Southern League, so it remains to be seen if he can really miss bats in the advanced minors. Likewise, his walk totals are better than the league average – even last year when it was over 3BB/9. Even this year, just focused on his PCL stint – his BB rate was 3.62. PCL league average BB/9? 3.62.
I’m not too worried, given his age, but I just think it’s waaaaay too early to talk about him as a reliever. Like 3-4 years too early.
So far, he looks like a starter to me, and I’m sure they’ll give him every opportunity.
Right, RRS had moderately high walk totals
I’m not sure that we can even classify Gaby as having walk issues at this point. He’s league average at worst. What’ll he do at age 24? Who knows, but it certainly seems that when he’s at a level more age-appropriate, his walk totals are quite low. this year in AA, his second FSL stint, etc.
Yeah
My reaction to the M’s picking up ‘veteran presence’ for the bullpen was always annoyance; why spend $1.5m on a past-his-prime guy when you’ve turned unheralded guys like Sherrill, Green and Putz into incredibly valuable relievers?
But now, a part of me will always think that veteran grit is worth something on the market – or at least in the south florida part of the market.
If they want to keep doing that for one bullpen spot a year
that would be fantastic.
Wouldn't it?
One spot only, and of course it hasn’t worked with theJohn Parrishes, the Rick Whites and the Masao Kidas of the world…
No - the whole point here is that the trade partner cannot understand much about relief pitchers
We just need a old guy with a sparkly ERA, preferably by having his opportunities carefully chosen to create one (and some BABIP luck would help). A BABIP unlucky reliever does nothing for us. Even if the trade partner understood BABIP and would push to acquire a guy like Parrish, the asking price would be minimal.
I didn't mean using Parrish as trade bait last year.
I meant holding onto him and giving him another chance and oh hey, look what he did! Now he’s somewhat tradeable.
Aha! Gotcha
Would he have to sign a one-year deal to keep him? Or would he have been under team control absent his DFA?
We’ll see if the Pads can do something similar with Cha Baek.
This makes me so happy.
I would do cartwheels over my name written in sand
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Jul 31, 2008 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Just got home from work. Stuff's already pouring in. By the time I wake up around 5 pm or so, there's probably gonna be
a dozen trades to digest and a 1000 comments to read. Argh.
One Vision, One Purpose
Peace Through Power
I cant wait for a Washburn trade to not get done.
and Lee saying if only they had an extra three hours in Seattle it would have gone official.
When was this revealed?
Was it at a USSM/LL Feed?
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
The Seattle Post Intelligencer reports that the Rockies were "shocked" when the Mariners asked for both Dexter Fowler and Casey Weathers in exchange for Jarrod Washburn.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 31, 2008 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Here's the thing
First, the asking price reported is almost always going to seem high. Second, I have to agree with Geoff Baker on this point a bit, the Mariners will probably be able to dump the salary through waivers after the deadline anyhow, so why not shoot high? They can always come down from their demands, but you never have a chance to pull a Kazmir for Zambrano deal if you don’t ask for Kazmir, do you?
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
Washburn is living on borrowed time.
He’s not good, he hasn’t been pitching any differently, and the results are not going to last. I understand the thought process behind waiting, I just think it’s based on poor talent evaluation.
FanShots are underrated.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 31, 2008 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Best argument ever
A little part of me wants to believe he meant it
The english Mariner who isn't EnglishMariner --- P3 W1 L2 (.333)
Sponsor of Jamie Burke's baseball-reference page
I am sad that I couldn't be the first one to make this joke.
by JI on Jul 31, 2008 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Hawaiian. Don't you ever listen to Scott Van Pelt?
by andrewgolfsalot on Jul 31, 2008 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions
I try not to.
ESPN gives me a rash every time I’m exposed to it.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
Meh, as long as you go for the show, and avoid the analysis, it isn't THAT bad.
by andrewgolfsalot on Jul 31, 2008 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions
The show's the worst part.
Every episode of SportsCenter is two guys trying to out-cool each other’s catch phrases over highlights that they’re not really even paying attention to. Just tell me what happened and stop working your midlife crisis out on national TV, please.
And don’t even get me started on the Who’s Nows and the Titletowns.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
It's Berman and Patrick & Olbermann's fault.
If they weren’t so good (at the time), they wouldn’t have gotten so many copycats who ruined it. It’s like Pearl Jam (who were good at the time) and all the crappy Pearl Jam ripoff bands.
I'm with you
Kilborn was just a mild irritant. People post The Big Show-era Sportscenter tried to live up to that standard, not realizing that the reason Olbermann/Patrick worked so well is that neither one of them really gave a damn about sports reporting; they wanted to tell good stories in a funny way, and they did that better than anybody.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
ESPN sucks
but Scott Van Pelt is the man.
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Also, I'm always down for some online Grand Theft Auto IV or Rock Band. Gamertag: Phildopip
by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Jul 31, 2008 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Huh.
I tried to post a YouTube link, but it ate it.
We’ll try that again.
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Also, I'm always down for some online Grand Theft Auto IV or Rock Band. Gamertag: Phildopip
by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Jul 31, 2008 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions
SVP's mail slot at ESPN has a label reading
“The Real Scott Van Pelt”
Pretty Much...
Word is Griffey is going to play CF.
I don't understand
I just don’t. That’s a dumb decision even for Kenny Williams, and he’s made a few dumb ones.
If he really does play CF
Kenny Williams deserves to be fired on the spot.
IT seems to be a Bourque-esque nostalgia move
so Griffey can get a ring. What Kenny Williams doesn’t seem to understand is that Griffey may actually HURT (and by hurt I mean destroy) the Sox’ chances of getting that ring.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
And if somehow Chicago manages to win the World Series
I will weep with joy for days because Griffey finally got a ring. It will eclipse Bourque’s in my mind – I loved Bourque, but he’s no Junior.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
I love that this could single handedly cost them the division
I’m sad that it may cost us Strasburg.
by JI on Jul 31, 2008 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Indeed
Most retarded trade of the season no question, barring something unforeseen. Maybe the most retarded of the past few years.
If it is worse, it's certainly not 10x worse
They just traded two valuable prospects for 2 months of Griffey, trying to play defense, possibly in CF. That is awful.
Yeah, I actually think this trade is worse.
FanShots are underrated.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 31, 2008 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions
A bunch since Minnesota is laying way over their heads.
...that assumes Griffey sees any significant time. It also helps out the sox/Yanks because, hey, one less WC team to worry about.
by JI on Jul 31, 2008 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Sad
45% (of 6000+) think that Griffey is still an “elite player” according to the latest ESPN poll.
Either that or Kenny Williams voted 3,000 times.
I'm more like I am now than I've ever been.
Go figure
The percentage for Ohio is lower than the percentage for Washington (and Illinois). Shocking.
I'm more like I am now than I've ever been.
So Washburn to the Yanks is less likely
according to Rosenthal’s latest update the Yanks are now looking at a deal for Paul Byrd to replace Rasner in the rotation after being frustrated by the Mariners.
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
You're not serious are you?
Paul Byrd is horrid.
I'm assuming it's wordplay, because that wouldn't be an upgrade.
FanShots are underrated.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 31, 2008 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
That was cold.
Cold, but accurate. I remember that article too.
I root for the two worst teams in baseball, non-ironically.
Have you seen that rotation
Anyone who can save the bullpen an extra day is a huge plus. If it was my only option, and the price was right, yes.
To add
Wellemeyer, Carpenter and Wainwright all nice arms, but they’ve had their share of injuries this season and who know how many of them will make it to the finish line. Joel is horrible and the 5th spot has been worse than him. Adding arm, any arm, who can be less bad than Joel and absorb some inning should be a high priority even if it’s Paul Byrd.
debatable
and even so, Byrd is better than any of the sub replacement level crap they’re running out there. Byrd is the last guy on my list but he is an upgrade.
Byrd is a sub-replacement-level pitcher
by Graham MacAree on Jul 31, 2008 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
No kidding
He is capable of throwing strikes the alternative aren’t. I don’t know how you could look at that staff and say someone like Byrd wouldn’t help.
Paul Bryd would be a slight improvement on Miguel Batista
That’s about it.
by Graham MacAree on Jul 31, 2008 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions
You don't trade for a man with a -19 tROA at the end of July.
by Graham MacAree on Jul 31, 2008 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree.
There’s got to be somebody else the Cards could use.
Right. It's not whether Byrd is better than Boggs or Parisi (which he probably is)
it’s: is he better than John Wasdin or PJ Walters.
It would be like trading for Horacio Ramirez at the deadline last year
by Graham MacAree on Jul 31, 2008 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
You're right; Ramirez was pitching better last year than Byrd was this year.
by Graham MacAree on Jul 31, 2008 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Byrd has already thrown more innings, therefore better.
Plus control, moving to a big ballpark with excellent OFers.
You're fighting stats with anecdotes?
by Graham MacAree on Jul 31, 2008 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Wouldn't more innings mean he's hurting his team more?
Romanes eunt domus
by Last Fan Of Jose Lopez on Jul 31, 2008 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Except there are better alternatives for free
Jeff Weaver is the first that comes to mind
by Graham MacAree on Jul 31, 2008 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
But he's not white!
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Also, I'm always down for some online Grand Theft Auto IV or Rock Band. Gamertag: Phildopip
by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Jul 31, 2008 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Quick..someone get some powdered sugar and throw it at Raul. NOT WHITE ENOUGH
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Jul 31, 2008 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Do the Jays actually think they're contenders this season?
I don’t get it.
Even if they were, what does Raul give them that they don't already have on the bench in Matt Stairs?
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Meh. Who could the Jays offer?
Snider and that’s about it.
I would run home and bake Lee a pie with fresh berries in it.
I would personally deliver it with a hand-written ode to his genius.
(they could also offer Brett Cecil)
Why is the deadline at the end of the east coast's work day?
The entire trade deadline is yet another example of the east coast bias.
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