Ichiro Is Fine
I need to break up Matthew's little hot streak. Whose blog does he think this is?
Running down the table:
-Ichiro's swing rate on balls outside of the zone hasn't changed at all
-Ichiro's swing rate on balls inside the zone is a little down, but probably not significantly so
-Ichiro's made more contact on balls outside of the zone
-Ichiro's made just as much contact on balls inside the zone as always
-Ichiro's groundball rate is up
-Ichiro's line drive rate is down, but probably not significantly so
-Ichiro isn't lacking for infield hits
-More of Ichiro's balls in play are being turned into outs than ever before
The first thing you might guess is that hitting grounders at the expense of line drives is hurting Ichiro, but I think the opposite is true - this should be helping him. In his groin-grabbingly awesome 2004, he put up a GB% of 63.7 and a LD% of 18.4. Fly balls are what he really wants to avoid, and he's been doing that just fine. So this likely isn't the issue.
The next thing you might guess is that he's being hurt somehow by making more contact on balls outside of the zone, but (A) that seems weird, (B) his O-Contact% was 77.8% last year and he did just fine, and (C) his BABIP on balls outside of the zone is actually higher in 2008 than in 2007, at least according to Josh Kalk's combined PITCHf/x tool. The culprit here appears to be BABIP on strikes.
Another thing I've seen here and there every so often is the suggestion that opposing defenses are learning how to play Ichiro better. They're not. This is, has always been, and will continue to be stupid.
You could go through a laundry list of potential reasons why Ichiro's numbers are down, but just because he's a unique player doesn't mean there has to be a unique explanation. He's been unlucky. Despite zero convincing evidence that his skills are eroding, he's struggling to match his recent batting lines, and when you see that happen to someone luck should automatically be the first thing that comes to mind.
Adjust Ichiro's performance so far to that .353 '05-'07 BABIP and you've got yourself a .319 BA with a .377 OBP. In other words, business as usual. Barring something unforeseen, I expect Ichiro's numbers from this point forward to look a lot more familiar than they have to date. If his batting average between tomorrow and the end of the season isn't in or around the .310-.330 range, I'll eat a hat.*
1 recs |
93 comments
Comments
I thought we were trading him.
Give you're propers to the all time rec leader.
by JI on Jun 27, 2008 12:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
(The website won't let you customize an Ichiro 51 jersey)
Jl/Robert '08: Promise for a CoachCage tomorrow!
by Fin on Jun 27, 2008 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for posting this Jeff
I’ve been defending Ichiro to my Yankee fan coworkers, this will give me more ammunition.
by coolguyrob on Jun 27, 2008 12:18 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
And some more fire...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/canoro01.shtml
Also, missing out on the playoffs with the highest payroll in sports is pretty humiliating (no irony intended here, I hate the yankees)
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 27, 2008 1:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the yankees aren't going to miss the playoffs
unfortunately
by mr.smartypants on Jun 27, 2008 5:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're going to take the wild card from Boston or Tampa Bay?
Unlikely.
by marinator on Jun 27, 2008 7:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe he's never won an MVP.
Give you're propers to the all time rec leader.
by JI on Jun 27, 2008 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could his higher outside the zone contact imply weak contact of said balls?
Thus, the lower babip? He seems to make more contact with balls outside of the zone, but it doesn’t help him in this case. Or am I looking too far into the data?
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Jun 27, 2008 2:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Just an excerpt.
The next thing you might guess is that he’s being hurt somehow by making more contact on balls outside of the zone, but (A) that seems weird, (B) his O-Contact% was 77.8% last year and he did just fine, and© his BABIP on balls outside of the zone is actually higher in 2008 than in 2007, at least according to Josh Kalk’s combined PITCHf/x tool. The culprit here appears to be BABIP on strikes.
by Faux on Jun 27, 2008 4:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So it's both Ichiro and Beltre that are getting boned by luck?
Who did we piss off?
by Smegmalicious on Jun 27, 2008 3:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like we pissed off luck itself
by coolguyrob on Jun 27, 2008 3:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS LUCK
THEY NEED TO AIM WHERE THEY HIT THE BALL BETTER!
by BrianL on Jun 27, 2008 7:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Luck was on our side last year
So maybe its flipping us off this year.
by SaberR on Jun 27, 2008 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pythagoras.
As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball.
by acblue on Jun 27, 2008 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
any way to find out is BA on GBs?
I’ve heard tell he’s getting slow.
by mr.smartypants on Jun 27, 2008 5:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It should be on Bill James online
It was around .400 last year I believe.
by Fett42 on Jun 27, 2008 5:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
.259 on GB's
.300 for his career.
He’s not getting slow.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jun 27, 2008 7:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think this might have to do with being a CF between two wounded buffaloes?
Ichiro’s BABIP has always been higher than expected due to his speed and batting style. If he’s wearing down that is where it would show up first, no?
the artist formerly known as Mere Tantalisers.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jun 27, 2008 9:07 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He was fine last year.
Give you're propers to the all time rec leader.
by JI on Jun 27, 2008 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm...Jeff...what if he's actually beginning his decline phase?
I know it’s not a popular thing to say around here. Training regimen, Ichiro is a superhero, face of the franchise, blah blah blah…but I think right now that it’s equally plausible that Ichiro is in the beginnings of his decline phase. That doesn’t mean he still can’t be an immensely valuable player during this period (though moreso in CF than RF…aaaugh), but I worry that this is a bit rosy-colored in its analysis.
(Aw shit…did I just get myself banned?)
I root for the two worst teams in baseball, non-ironically.
by esoteric on Jun 27, 2008 9:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
All of the peripheral stats don't show decline.
His contact rate is as good as ever, it doesn’t appear that he’s lost a step. The only real big difference, from what I’m seeing, is his BABIP.
by BrianL on Jun 27, 2008 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're mistaking me for an Ichiro fanboy.
If I saw evidence of a decline, I’d say he’s on the decline. But I don’t.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jun 27, 2008 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems to me that this is the whole point of the post,
trying to see if this is a decline phase of talent.
The numbers are right there. Do you question the interpretation?
by Matthew on Jun 27, 2008 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I'm just intensely stupid.
Well, that and I wonder whether the significant decline in BABIP could mean something in terms of decline. Normally that would be a silly argument, given the general unrepeatability of such a skill. But given the previously high level estabilished level set by Ichiro, it’s possible that the precipitous drop is a manifestation of something else – perhaps bat speed issues, or the increased groundball rate – that marks a decline.
Really, I think the proper answer here is “it could go either way.” There is a chance that Ichiro’s decline in BABIP (really the only significant variance between this season and the last) is just statistical noise, and that it’ll regress (progress?) back to the mean in the next few months. But it could also be the first signs of something more ominous too.
And you know what? This sure isn’t a very sabermetric thing to say, but I can’t help but feel that the pathetic state of the M’s has something to do with his performance this season. Say what you want about Ichiro living in another mental universe than most players, but I have to think that being in the center of this maelstrom – and being the target of notable discontent from teammates, apparently, for “being selfish” (such bullshit, but it is what it is) – would have an effect on him.
I root for the two worst teams in baseball, non-ironically.
by esoteric on Jun 27, 2008 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only way I would see the low BABIP being a sustainable drop in talent
would be if Ichiro were slowing down and thus more of his GBs were turning into outs rather than hits. But, his steals are way up and his infield hit percentage is up.
It still could be, I think the proper conclusion, at this time, though is to say there’s no concrete evidence yet of a decline.
by Matthew on Jun 27, 2008 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coach would be proud of those commas.
Give you're propers to the all time rec leader.
by JI on Jun 27, 2008 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The one after be was supposed to be a .
Other than that, they’re all useful.
by Matthew on Jun 27, 2008 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steals and speed
Steals are up because he’s trying more often. And he’s used his super human powers to learn to get better jumps off of the pitchers.
I think it’s a combinatino of bad luck and a slight loss of foot speed. Can’t prove it, but it’s inevitable. If he loses half a step then that equates to a lot of outs over the the course of a season.
by solap1 on Jun 27, 2008 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no evidence that his footspeed has decreased.
by BrianL on Jun 27, 2008 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No evidence?
He’s getting to base less often on the same types of hits. He’s older. That’s evidence, isn’t it? Granted, it’s not categorical, but neither is any of what we call evidence.
Does anyone know what his rate of getting to balls out of his zone has done in the past couple of years? It’s hard to compare since he changed positions.
by solap1 on Jun 28, 2008 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm an idiot
I just check his SB% and I’m an idiot. It’s 93.4% so far this year, up from 82.2% last year.
Me = idiot
Donations accepted.
by solap1 on Jun 28, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A HAT is in fact a delicious sandwich
The Ham, Avocado, Tomato is often overlooked because it does not bring the greasy yumminess of Bacon to the table. However, it is a delightful sandwich. Teams well with rye and Emmenthaler.
by Sec 108 on Jun 27, 2008 9:43 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
That old, tired expression is now fresh and exciting.
As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball.
by acblue on Jun 27, 2008 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So why is ham a good substitution for bacon
I’m confused by the logic here.
by Edgar for Pres on Jun 27, 2008 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's saltier?
I like a good bacon to ham to sausage mix to avoid overloading on any single one.
by Matthew on Jun 27, 2008 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you assume it is a substitute?
Cannot ham be a sandwich ingredient of it’s own accord? Why do people just always go for the bacon?
If you are confused by the logic then you are making it too difficult. Rye bread, Emmenthaler, mayo, mustard, ham, avocado and tomato make a yummy sandwich. Therefore, eating a HAT is not really all that bad an activity to undertake.
by Sec 108 on Jun 27, 2008 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there any stat to indicate how hard Ichiro is hitting the ball?
I would think a hard hit groundball (etc.) would be harder to field and therefore more likely to result in a hit. Couldn’t Ichiro decline insomuch that his balls in play are simply easier to field? That would result in a drop in BABIP.
by John Morgan on Jun 27, 2008 12:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We only have proxies for that information right now
come on, HITf/x…
by Jeff Sullivan on Jun 27, 2008 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thought occurred to me that if we worked for the Ms
we could lobby to get the front office to help sponsor the creation of hit f/x under a competitive advantage argument.
by Matthew on Jun 27, 2008 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Data exclusivity!
We could make it worth Sportvision’s while.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jun 27, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you imagine if got the team to finance hit f/x development
at least at SafeCo, and had the three of us working full time as analysts?
Nah, that would be all advantageous and shit.
by Matthew on Jun 27, 2008 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
...Until they fire you three and find smarter people.
Give you're propers to the all time rec leader.
by JI on Jun 27, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They'd only need one of us
we agree on everything anyway.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jun 27, 2008 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Three Guys Who Will Probably Disagree On Something Sometime
by Jeff Sullivan on Jun 27, 2008 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We disagree on what makes a good pun apparently.
by Matthew on Jun 27, 2008 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe you should be more reader friendly
I have a hard enough time understanding the Matthew use in your posts
by Last Fan Of Jose Lopez on Jun 27, 2008 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I tend to agree with Matthew concerning puns.
Jeff’s are awful.
by BrianL on Jun 27, 2008 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff made puns a dead meme!
by Last Fan Of Jose Lopez on Jun 27, 2008 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We also cannot decide on lunch.
Does not making a decision count as disagreeing?
by Matthew on Jun 27, 2008 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
that’s agreeing on indecisiveness.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jun 27, 2008 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You two are starting to sound like an old married couple.
by Sec 108 on Jun 27, 2008 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just reminded me of what happens when my wife calls
Right after I have finished lunch to ask what I want for dinner.
Who the hell knows what they want to eat 5 hours down the road when their stomach is currently full?
by Sec 108 on Jun 27, 2008 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get angry when people do this to me as well.
I don’t even know what I want to eat 15 minutes ahead of time.
by Matthew on Jun 27, 2008 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The correct answer there is
I don’t care, just fix it and have it ready when I get home, woman.
And yes, I’ve discovered my couch is a very comfortable place to sleep.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Jun 27, 2008 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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