26-47
When Jim Riggleman went to bed the night of October 2nd, 1999, he probably didn't think it would be another eight and a half years before he'd win another game. But that's what the 2008 Seattle Mariners are all about. Making dreams come true. These guys recognized Riggleman's predicament and did what they could to put him in a favorable situation. Some people might call this team bad, but me? I call it selfless.
Biggest Contribution: Jeremy Reed, +21.5%
Biggest Suckfest: Ichiro, Jeff Clement, -13.0%
Most Important AB: Reed double, +21.5%
Most Important Pitch: Francoeur DP, +13.2%
Total Contribution by Pitcher(s): +25.2%
Total Contribution by Position Players: +24.7%
Total Contribution by Opposition: +0.1%
(What is this chart?)
- There's an important lesson we can all learn from Erik Bedard, because this guy's making me look like an idiot. Obviously I was never in favor of the trade, but the whole time I kept telling myself "well on the plus side at least Bedard is outstandingly awesome." On a few occasions I went so far as to call him one of the best starting pitchers in baseball. I was pretty convinced that, in the event of a trade, we'd be giving too much at the wrong time but we'd still be landing a dynamite arm.
It hasn't worked out that way, as Bedard's on pace to throw 156 innings of decent but unspectacular baseball. There's no single cause for why the Mariners have tanked, but a big factor is that the team's only really had half of its obnoxiously advertised one-two punch. Flashes of the talent that Bedard displayed throughout 2007 have been few and far between, and the organization has been helpless to get him on track.
The lesson? It's actually a two-parter:
(1) Don't arrive at sweeping conclusions based on a single season's performance. Particularly when you're dealing with a pitcher. As difficult as it may be to wrap your head around this, one season is still a pretty small sample size, all things considered, and lacking more information it's impossible to know how well a guy is going to sustain certain gains. Based on his 2007 strikeout rate, Bedard was a pretty good bet to be terrific again in 2008, but a good bet is still a gamble, and you have to consider the potential downside. As of this moment, Erik Bedard's 2007 bears a strong resemblance to Adrian Beltre's 2004.
(2) Pay attention to durability. We all knew that Bedard was pretty fragile when we landed him, but I don't think any of us truly understood the extent, and while it's easy to say "well he'd probably be better if not for the injuries," for certain people injuries are a reality with which they have no choice but to live. Injuries happen, and they're not to be ignored or adjusted for - they're to be taken into consideration, because health is the sixth skill, and a lot of people don't have it. People like Bedard. He's not Chris Snelling, but he's not Cal Ripken either, and today was just the latest example of how an injury can spoil even the best-laid plans.
If I could do it all over again, I'd be more bearish. I'd still love Erik Bedard the pitcher (and Erik Bedard the interview, because God damn that's still funny), but I'd have issued more caveats regarding health and performance sustainability, because those were legitimate concerns that got somewhat swept under the rug in all the hoopla over how good he was. That's my mistake, and all I can hope for now is that he's able to get himself healthy and closer to 2007 level in time to either bring us a good return in a trade, or help us compete in 2009. This has not been a good half-season. - Staying on Bedard, but dealing with something totally different, all this criticism he's been getting for being a "100-pitch pitcher" - it's bullshit. It's bullshit. Not the statement; Bedard does indeed generally top out around 100-110. But the insinuations are bullshit. People - fans, coaches, and team officials alike - have used that line to accuse Bedard of being soft, of being too selfish and not caring enough about the team. They wanted a workhorse and feel like they've been stuck with a burro, and they're upset about it. They feel like Bedard should be giving something more.
Here's the thing: no one knows a pitcher better than the pitcher. No one. You can monitor his velocity or look at how much he's sweating or see if he's slowing down his pace, but only the pitcher truly knows if he has anything left in the tank. And if he doesn't, then it benefits nobody to leave him out on the hill to "gut it out." Assuming that Bedard really is only capable of throwing ~100 pitches - which seems like a safe assumption, since that's how he's been his entire career - then why on earth would you want him to try and go longer? Especially being as fragile as he is.
You know who hasn't gotten any complaints about being soft? Jarrod Washburn. Jarrod Washburn is a gamer who leaves it all on the mound, and then some. He's the kind of pitcher a manager loves to have, a real bulldog. A bulldog with a career OPS against of 1.013 after 100 pitches.
This is why good-old-boys baseball is stupid. Because those people are mad at Bedard for being smart and happy with Washburn for being retarded. This kind of relates to the whole fallacy about playing through injuries. If you're hurt and the pain is negatively affecting your performance, you shouldn't be playing. It's the same way with fatigue. If a pitcher is tired - and I see no reason to doubt that Bedard wears down around 100 pitches - then, as much as your standard Reconstruction Era manager might like to see him man up, the prudent thing to do is for the pitcher to be honest about his condition. That's good for the team, far better than any psychological boost the guys might get from watching a tired starter suck it up and jeopardize his health while throwing worse pitches than he was at the beginning. That's why you have bullpens.
If you want to criticize Bedard for not showing enough emotion or for not working hard enough in practice, then whatever, go right ahead. But what really matters is what a player does between the lines during a game, and Bedard is catching flak for doing what's right. I'm sorry, but I just find that beyond ridiculous. - I was really looking forward to catching a glimpse of Jorge Campillo so I could see what he's doing differently in Atlanta than he was in Seattle (if anything). After all, it seems like a guy would've had to make some sort of adjustment to achieve this level of performance, right?
Instead of seeing Good Campillo, though, I got stuck watching the same old guy I was never sorry to lose. He stayed around the strike zone for most of the game but rarely fooled anyone, notching just four swinging strikes, allowing five extra-base hits, and coming within inches of serving up a bomb to Adrian Beltre. This was a thoroughly mediocre outing, and since I rarely have occasion (or the desire) to watch the Braves, I can't help but think that Campillo's early performance has been a pretty big fluke. Aside from one dynamite changeup he threw to Ichiro in the fifth, I just didn't see anything that stood out as being particularly awesome. While I don't doubt that he can survive in a National League rotation, I came away less than impressed. But I guess it could've just been a bad day. - However, should Campillo really be a legitimate #2 or #3 starter, it would be pretty ironic that the organization that kept trying to find and develop the next Jamie Moyer let one slip away for nothing.
- With men on the corners and nobody out in the top of the fifth of a 1-0 ballgame, Roy Corcoran walked to the plate for just the fourth time in his Major League career and struck out trying to bunt. He then faced all of two batters in the bottom half before getting yanked. Curse you, Riggleman. You only managed in the National League for like seven years.
- The Atlanta broadcast lacks of lot of things, but more than anything else, it lacks flow. It lacks continuity. It's not so much a broadcast of a game as it is a series of factual statements recited on air with only a hint of order and organization. If I were listening on radio I'd think it was trivia. The only thing they really had going for them is that they didn't know off the tops of their heads where Willie Ballgame was born, which in my book is good for a thousand points.
- Over a meaningless 55 at bats, Jeremy Reed's OPS stands at .813. I wonder if this is going to be our official second bright spot of the season. I don't think he's this good of a hitter, but every day he looks decent is another day during which I can dream of a brighter tomorrow. Jeremy Reed turning into an actual player would be bigger for this team than you'd think.
1 recs |
106 comments
Comments
What the fuck?
From Baker:
To those wondering why Willie Bloomquist started instead of Jeremy Reed against a right-handed pitcher, it was because Jorge Campillo is much tougher on lefties (.174 batting average against) than righties (.274).
Are you telling me that a Mariners manager actually used statistics over roles or veteran-ness? Even if it is some sort of sample-size fluke on the reverse-platoon split, it’s still encouraging.
by batura on Jun 21, 2008 12:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This is somehow even more annoying than the usual stupid logic
by Jeff on Jun 21, 2008 12:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Using statistics wrong < not using statistics
We don't negotiate with terrorists.
by Mariner John on Jun 21, 2008 12:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
From TNT:
"Will I get another shot at managing? I hope so. I have confidence in myself. I know the game, I work hard, I communicate well. I have fire. This is a setback."McLaren’s immediate plans? He told the Mariners he’d like to work for the salary the team will pay him the remainder of the season, and volunteered to do some scouting.
by JI on Jun 21, 2008 12:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Reed
Over a meaningless 55 at bats, Jeremy Reed’s OPS stands at .813. I wonder if this is going to be our official second bright spot of the season. I don’t think he’s this good of a hitter, but every day he looks decent is another day during which I can dream of a brighter tomorrow. Jeremy Reed turning into an actual player would be bigger for this team than you’d think.
Could also just be that he’s in his prime and this is the best he’s going to get. Might as well ride that horse until his skillsets come back to earth.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Jun 21, 2008 12:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Send Clement down
Obviously not ready.
We don't negotiate with terrorists.
by Mariner John on Jun 21, 2008 12:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Jim Riggleman hasn't won a game in 8 1/2 years?

Another satisfied customer.
by ThundaPC on Jun 21, 2008 2:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
What are the odds Batista does well in the closer role?
And someone insanely desperate for relief pitching trades for him at the deadline? Wouldn’t that be swell? “Raindrops keep fallin’ on my head…” whistles
Captain Raptor and the Space Pirates is one of the greatest literary achievements of the Modern Era.
by Frosty Raptor on Jun 21, 2008 6:07 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Richie used to be decent?!
At least we don't have Zito's contract.
by ColeFitz on Jun 21, 2008 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bastista was closer to his prime then
Time heals all wounds.
Captain Raptor and the Space Pirates is one of the greatest literary achievements of the Modern Era.
by Frosty Raptor on Jun 21, 2008 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
TOLD YOU
TOLD YOU TOLD YOU TOLD YOU TOLD YOU TOLD YOU TOLD YOU TOLD YOU TOLD YOU TOLD YOU TOLD YOU TOLD YOU TOLD YOU TOLD YOU TOLD YOU TOLD YOU TOLD YOU TOLD YOU TOLD YOU TOLD YOU TOLD YOU TOLD YOU TOLD YOU.
Until he repeats last year, im not buying him as a #1. He certainly has good stuff, and has a little potential left…but, no.
by Slica on Jun 21, 2008 7:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He's injured
Bedard is, when healthy, one of the best starting pitchers in the majors. I don’t buy anything to do with performance unsustainability when we clearly haven’t seen him healthy and we have 1/3rd of a season’s sample size.
by Graham on Jun 21, 2008 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im only messing around!
Though I do believe there is a little truth to what I said. Before we acquired him, I was skeptical that he wouldn’t be able to repeat last year…I dont argue he is among the best pitchers in baseball, I just feel he wont repeat 2007 again, injured or not. If he comes anywhere close…I will fall in love.
Unfortunately, that will happen when we dump him off to the Yankees for a couple overrated prospects.
by Slica on Jun 21, 2008 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was still pretty good for the 2 seasons prior to his 10k/9 year
Not number one pitcher in the AL, but top 10
http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com
by LantermanC on Jun 21, 2008 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also had a 9K/9
from June on in 2006.
It really wasn’t a one-year thing. It was much more 1.5 years.
by Matthew on Jun 21, 2008 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are injuries not a part of performance unsustainability?
Besides, he was pitching through discomfort down the stretch last year, too.
by Jeff on Jun 21, 2008 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What part was injured?
If it was his elbow or something that just hurt and kept hurting until he just had to call it quits and get surgery, that might be different than a hip that actually doesn’t hurt that much, but changes his consistency.
http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com
by LantermanC on Jun 21, 2008 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bedard's AB was awesome.
He was smiling the whole time like “hey, look…I’m batting”. Then he drives the first pitch up the middle.
by ThundaPC on Jun 21, 2008 8:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The Seattle Mariners - Hey look, I'm batting!
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
by acblue on Jun 21, 2008 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does this increase his trade value?
Jl/Robert '08: Promise for a CoachCage tomorrow!
by Fin on Jun 21, 2008 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good writeup Jeff
Yeah, the changeup to Ichiro in the 5th impressed me as well, I thought it was a fastball the whole time, until I saw the FSN thing show 76 mph. Sure he’s not great, but we can all definitely agree that he’s better than Silva, Washburn, or Batista (or at least close to equal in ability, for not even close to the price). I mean, would you rather have our rotation, or Felix, Bedard, Dickey, Campillo, Baek/Feier (and be on pace to suck this much for only 90 million)
http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com
by LantermanC on Jun 21, 2008 9:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Larue's blog is pretty amazing and depressing
if it hasn’t already been linked. Linky.
by Paytheline on Jun 21, 2008 10:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Again, I don't see why the coaches are pissed off Adrian's not taking extra BP.
He has a busted thumb.
by BrianL on Jun 21, 2008 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's another thing
With the season in the tank, maybe Adrian ought to just bag it and have surgery to repair that thumb.
by Gomez on Jun 21, 2008 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That certainly would be the smart thing to do.
Probably won’t happen unless the injury gets worse, though.
by BrianL on Jun 21, 2008 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This season's toast anyways.
Might as well go all out for that number 1 draft choice. Besides, if Willie plays out the rest of the season at third and finishes with a sub .200 BA, even our FO won’t resign him.
by BrianL on Jun 21, 2008 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its not like he wants to stay with the Mariners anyway.
Jl/Robert '08: Promise for a CoachCage tomorrow!
by Fin on Jun 21, 2008 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What does it matter
Play musical chairs with Tui, Willie and Cairo for all it matters.
by Gomez on Jun 21, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tui?
I’d rather at least give Tui some more ABs inat AAA, since he at least might have some trade value in the future.
http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com
by LantermanC on Jun 21, 2008 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I agree
It’s just, with nothing to lose this year, it’s no real concern who you put at 3B if you’re gonna tell Beltre to go ahead and have surgery on his thumb.
by Gomez on Jun 21, 2008 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no way, decrease his trade value
plus it’s not like he’s doing that horribly… I’m still hoping that we can trade him soon, at least get something out of him to a team that wants to go to the playoffs and will overpay. Lets trade for Inge for 3b, I love that guy.
http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com
by LantermanC on Jun 21, 2008 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Low BA.
Smart teams recognize that it’s unimportant, but the M’s don’t, so they see him as less valuable than other teams. He’s under contract for one more year; if he has surgery, isn’t traded and isn’t ridiculously unlucky next year, he’ll be much more valuable. Trading Beltre now makes zero sense. I think it’s going to happen, but it’s still dumb.
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
by acblue on Jun 21, 2008 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Beltre gets traded, it won't be until after the off-season.
We don’t have anyone ready to play 3B in Beltre’s place.
by BrianL on Jun 21, 2008 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As stupid as our FO is, they're not that stupid.
They’re not going to trot Willie out at 3B every game for a season and a half.
by BrianL on Jun 21, 2008 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd enjoy that.
Ever want to know what it’s like to see Willie booed?
by JI on Jun 21, 2008 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes please...with sprinkles on top.
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Jun 21, 2008 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and today was just the latest example of how an injury can spoil even the best-laid plans....of mice and men?
by Last Fan Of Jose Lopez on Jun 21, 2008 11:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You are forbidden from talking about animals.
by JI on Jun 21, 2008 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn, the poem goes "best laid schemes" instead of plans.
Ah well, gang aft agley
by Last Fan Of Jose Lopez on Jun 21, 2008 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh what the frak?
Now any further reading of the poem is marred by…bloody, that’s just bullocks.
Captain Raptor and the Space Pirates is one of the greatest literary achievements of the Modern Era.
by Frosty Raptor on Jun 21, 2008 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, this game was fun. Usually we barely squeak by with a pathetic win, and I can't remember a blowout like this
happening during this season. As much as we all want to lose, I’d say it was still nice to see us win so emphatically
by Last Fan Of Jose Lopez on Jun 21, 2008 12:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
To be fair, I don't watch anything the Mariners do
by Last Fan Of Jose Lopez on Jun 21, 2008 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for the irony of writing this while visiting a Mariners blog.
Yes, I'm a girl. Yes, I know baseball. Yes, I even drink beer.
by NOLAmarinergirl on Jun 21, 2008 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I only try to watch Felix Days...if the M's are on and I'm around I'll watch.
But I’m not sacrificing other plans to watch Washburn, etc start.
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Jun 21, 2008 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's still nice to see it
I’d love to see it everyday.
by Gomez on Jun 21, 2008 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if we went back in time and gave the '01 squad Felix Hernandez?
Captain Raptor and the Space Pirates is one of the greatest literary achievements of the Modern Era.
by Frosty Raptor on Jun 21, 2008 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if we traded Erik Bedars to the 96 Mariners?
by JI on Jun 21, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For ARod, Charlton and 3 minor league pitchers?
We don't negotiate with terrorists.
by Mariner John on Jun 21, 2008 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh? Steve Kelley?
They need to waive first baseman Sexson, put him out of his misery. Waive designated hitter Vidro and shop starters Batista and Washburn. And see if there is another position, besides catcher, that Johjima can play.
Jeff Clement should be the everyday catcher and Bryan LaHair the first baseman. Wladimir Balentien could be the designated hitter.Closer Brandon Morrow should be turned into a starter. While he waits for J.J. Putz to get healthy, Riggleman can rotate closers. It doesn’t matter because, I repeat, this season is going nowhere.
by redwolf75 on Jun 21, 2008 12:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Some of that actually makes sense
I think Fremp wrote Steve Kelley’s article.
Captain Raptor and the Space Pirates is one of the greatest literary achievements of the Modern Era.
by Frosty Raptor on Jun 21, 2008 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome to the future.
Because those people are mad at Bedard for being smart and happy with Washburn for being retarded.
Ow, my balls.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
by Llewdor on Jun 21, 2008 12:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Dude
Just look at him
by Last Fan Of Jose Lopez on Jun 21, 2008 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I like J-Rod
leave him be, we have another year of him (unless some NL team thinks he has somem use)
http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com
by LantermanC on Jun 21, 2008 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Woo, proactive on the trade front!
Pilfered from the Kitsap Sun...
Pelekoudas said he is trying to be pro-active on the trade front but that it’s still early for trade talks to become serious.“It takes two teams and we can’t dance alone. Otherwise we’d be doing the rally jig,” he said. “But I’m making calls.”
What’s a “rally jig”?
Captain Raptor and the Space Pirates is one of the greatest literary achievements of the Modern Era.
by Frosty Raptor on Jun 21, 2008 12:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Dear God I hate the "word" pro-active.
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
by acblue on Jun 21, 2008 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So does the Thesaurus
Captain Raptor and the Space Pirates is one of the greatest literary achievements of the Modern Era.
by Frosty Raptor on Jun 21, 2008 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For some reason I didn't notice McLaren shooting the t.v. until just now
Well played.
by OlSalty on Jun 21, 2008 1:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Welcome back Dice-K
4ER in the first inning on 5 hits..including a Aaron Miles HR.
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Jun 21, 2008 1:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
7ER....1 IP...3 walks...6 hits.
AND DONE
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Jun 21, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was sheer terror
I think after hearing what we were giving up for him, a lot of people were afraid to admit that Bedard might be anything less than a superstar.
Before the trade, I remember a few people questioning whether Bedard’s 2007 was an abberation and saying that if the Mariners got him, it might be yet another example of the Mariners buying a career year and ending up with less than they thought they were getting (see: Silva, Washburn, Sexson (not counting the injury year), Beltre (I know this one worked out, but I guarantee, he’s still not what the Mariners thought they were getting)). But after people saw what we gave up for him, everybody decided that he had to be a star. I know I posted a couple times either on here or the USSMariner (maybe both, I don’t remember) that the Mariners might be puting too much faith in a guy who’d only had one truly spectacular season and tended to have trouble with injuries and I was quickly shot down. I think the idea that we’d given up that much for a guy who wasn’t a superstar was just too horrible to contemplate. This isn’t like a bad free agent signing. We’re not out a few million dollars over the next couple years. Eventually, those deals end and you get the spending power back. We’re out two potential stars, an awesome relief pitcher, and two more potential solid big league players and they’re not comign back. I think the phrase “He’s only had one good year and he’s very injury prone” was somewhere in everybody’s mind, but nobody wanted to admit it. Not even to themselves. It’s one thing to overpay for a star. It’s another entirely to give up everything for a player who’s just pretty good. I think everybody was so afraid of the latter, that they didn’t even consider it. Everybody just kept repeating to themselves “At least he’s a star, at least he’s a star, at least he’s a star.” Well, you can only fool yourself for so long. Now people are looking back and saying “We gave up what for a guy who’s only had one good season and a long history of injuries? Fuck!” It’s not pretty.
by DAMellen on Jun 21, 2008 1:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
TL;DNR
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Jun 21, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Too long, did read.
(Yeah, I know it makes no sense).
by JI on Jun 21, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa
I thought it was “Too long; do not resuscitate.”
Captain Raptor and the Space Pirates is one of the greatest literary achievements of the Modern Era.
by Frosty Raptor on Jun 21, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Urban Dictionary is your friend.
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Also, I'm always down for some online Grand Theft Auto IV or Rock Band. Gamertag: Phildopip
by Phildopip on Jun 21, 2008 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would reccomend this a hundred times if I could.
by JI on Jun 21, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't understand most of your responses, but I guess that was too long, so to summarize:
I think after seeing that we gave up so much for Bedard, a lot of people refused to acknowledge or admit, even to themselves, that Bedard was a guy who had only had one season as a true star and had experienced lots of injuries. The idea of giving up an awesome reliever, two potential stars, and two more potential solid players for a guy who was only pretty good was just too upsetting to even contemplate.
by DAMellen on Jun 21, 2008 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You obviously don't know about the epic struggle between TL;DR and TLDNR.
by JI on Jun 21, 2008 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't, but I'm willing to listen
So what’s the deal with this struggle I’m hearing so much about?
by DAMellen on Jun 21, 2008 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As to your point
I think the phrase "He’s only had one good year and he’s very injury prone" was somewhere in everybody’s mind, but nobody wanted to admit it
I think we all were very worried about it.
by JI on Jun 21, 2008 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
And yet nobody seemed to talk about it. Everybody kept talking like Bedard was another Brandon Webb or Johan Santana. I think people were just afraid to admit that he probably wasn’t and tried to put that thought out of their mind as much as possible. Now, it’s getting hard to ignore.
by DAMellen on Jun 21, 2008 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I seem to remember Jeff and Matthew talking at great length about this.
But most people in the pro-trade camp either ignored it or minimized the importance of it, so if that’s your point I agree.
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
by acblue on Jun 21, 2008 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In this blog, Jeff says he "kept telling [him]self "well on the plus side at least Bedard is outstandingly awesome.""
So maybe he said that some, but I think even the guys who didn’t like the trade focused mostly on the “Bedard rocks, but wasn’t worth what we gave up” side of the argument. I didn’t hear a lot of “Bedard’s not even that good” arguments.
by DAMellen on Jun 21, 2008 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we were all saying that he has the talent to be the same type of pitcher
but the injury concerns mean he isn’t in the same class, therefore this trade is will be really stupid.
by JI on Jun 21, 2008 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think?
It seemed to me like most people, even people in the sabermetric community and people who hated the trade, were discussing the trade in more the way that Jeff says he discussed it in this blog. They were discounting the “only one season” and “injury prone” aspects of Bedard and focusing more on the “talent to be at the same level as Santana and Webb” side. I’m pretty sure I heard a lot of people, including the guys here and at the USSM, repeatedly referring to him as a star and one of the ten best pitchers in the league and stuff like that. I think that was hope/fear talking. After seeing the trade, I think a lot of people denied the rational side of their brain and just hoped/feared that we didn’t give up so much for a guy who was only a good pitcher. Maybe I’m remembering it wrong.
by DAMellen on Jun 21, 2008 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I completely understand why MLB.tv would black out the Indians-Dodgers game for me
Completely understand.
Those sons of bitches
by Last Fan Of Jose Lopez on Jun 21, 2008 2:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Fields is getting destroyed for Georgia.
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Jun 21, 2008 2:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmmmm..
“However, should Campillo really be a legitimate #2 or #3 starter, it would be pretty ironic that the organization that kept trying to find and develop the next Jamie Moyer let one slip away for nothing.”
More or less ironic than the pitching starved Rangers trading away the following the past 3 years: Edinson Volquez, John Danks, and Chris Young.
Head meet desk. Repeat.
by GhettoBear04 on Jun 21, 2008 10:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hamilton>>>>>>>>>>>>Volquez.
As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball.
by acblue on Jun 22, 2008 1:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno
Volquez is pretty decent.
Also, I’ve heard that while Hamilton has great range, his actual fielding ability still needs some work. Can more informed parties C/D?
by Gomez on Jun 22, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hamilton has looked awful in centre whenever I've watched him playing
by Graham on Jun 22, 2008 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's a few too many greater than signs there.
As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball.
by acblue on Jun 23, 2008 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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