Rosenthal: M's clubhouse is toxic
by Frosty Raptor on Jun 20, 2008 8:25 AM PDT
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PrintAlright then. Ken Rosenthal is taking the pulse of the M's clubhouse (some scrolling required)...
Meanwhile, the Mariners' clubhouse remains toxic, sources say, with both Japanese players, Johjima and Ichiro, drawing resentment. Several starting pitchers dislike throwing to Johjima, and his new contract is a source of envy. Players also are jealous of Ichiro, who follows his own training regimen and is perceived by some to be selfish.
Johjima's contract remains a point of envy? Seriously? Nearly a third of the team makes more than Joh does.
If this is even remotely true then the only proper course of action is to turn the M's roster into a Japanese All-Star team. That should fix the resentment right quick. Yes indeed.
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So,,,
,,,,this is the result when you emphasize chemistry in building a team….
Man, Ichiro's so selfish...
Keeping himself fit and well.
How dare he not follow Vidro’s lead and hit the hot dog stands or Sexson stand around and do nothing.
Favor the Bold
I can't believe that Rosenthal cited Ichiro's workout regimen as being a clubhouse cancer.
Yes, how dare Ichiro use his own intense workout methods to keep himself in shape.
Ichiro: Bizarro Gaijin.
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
by Aaron Campeau on Jun 20, 2008 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Take this as a grain of salt
but I’ve heard from some of my friends who are college coaches that talk to M’s scouts that the clubhouse is pretty much worse than High School when it comes to cliches.
Coach Owens = No Fun Zone
I don't know, high school cliches can be pretty bad
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
Not another Teen Movie?
Coach Owens = No Fun Zone
by Scruffy Lefty on Jun 20, 2008 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions
My bad spelling has screwed me again... sigh
Coach Owens = No Fun Zone
by Scruffy Lefty on Jun 20, 2008 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm picturing Mean Girls.
Yes, I'm a girl. Yes, I know baseball. Yes, I even drink beer.
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Jun 20, 2008 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Holy crap, I read your SN as butthol at first
and had the “weren’t you 9 when this happened?” all typed out and ready to post.
by seattlebruin on Jun 20, 2008 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
I actually agree with this statement.
She used to be hot. What happened?
Yes, I'm a girl. Yes, I know baseball. Yes, I even drink beer.
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Jun 20, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
cocaine
I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little
by Sportszilla on Jun 20, 2008 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Dead Meme
its a helluva drug.
It makes me feel dirty to note that most of the female actresses in that movie were pretty hot (albeit I haven’t seen the movie) because they’re playing HS girls.
But they were all of age AFAIK…
The poster formerly known as Matt.
Agreed.
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Also, I'm always down for some online Grand Theft Auto IV or Rock Band. Gamertag: Phildopip
by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Jun 20, 2008 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Did y'all not see that movie?
She was hot.
Yes, I'm a girl. Yes, I know baseball. Yes, I even drink beer.
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Jun 20, 2008 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Sorry, boss.
Yes, I'm a girl. Yes, I know baseball. Yes, I even drink beer.
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Jun 20, 2008 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Did somebody say dragons?!?
"Dragons" are actually dinosaurs hunted to extinction by man in the Middle Ages. Check your Chinese calendars people.
by Frosty Raptor on Jun 20, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
She looks a little better now.
I usually don’t give a crap about the well-being of Hollywood starlets, but even since Christina RIcci started sucking, I’ve decided to make Lohan my new exception to the rule.
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
by Aaron Campeau on Jun 20, 2008 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
What!?
Who would’ve thought that the team that has lost the most this year would have the most unpleasant clubhouse.
Someone should find out who the least toxic clubhouse is...
I can think of about six possibilities off the top of my head.
Who can argue with "sources"?
And I’d always heard, and read, that the other players were extremely fond of Ichiro.
So which sources do you trust?
The ones who are jealous of Ichiro or the ones who are fond of Ichiro?
You should have left it at “Who can argue with “sources”?”
No.
There was a bylined SI story about Ichiro’s interactions with his fellows based on the author traveling with the team.
I was waiting for someone gay to mention that...thank you.
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Jun 20, 2008 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
And Hot Lindsay.
Yes, I'm a girl. Yes, I know baseball. Yes, I even drink beer.
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Jun 20, 2008 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Thanks. I needed that in my head right now.
Yes, I'm a girl. Yes, I know baseball. Yes, I even drink beer.
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Jun 20, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
That song was great.
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
by Aaron Campeau on Jun 20, 2008 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
good ol fashioned racism
glad that;s still around, in spite of all the chemistry.
the artist formerly known as Mere Tantalisers.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jun 20, 2008 10:42 AM PDT reply actions
“Players also are jealous of Ichiro, who follows his own training regimen…”
I sense the soft, doughy hand of Vidro in this quote.
the artist formerly known as Mere Tantalisers.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jun 20, 2008 10:42 AM PDT reply actions
The clubhouse is toxic??
I hope the players don’t get sick!
From a sports.yahoo.com article by Tim Brown.
A favorite of owner Hiroshi Yamauchi, who 11 months ago granted him a five-year, $90-million contract, Ichiro is regarded by some Mariners and most scouts as a self-centered, numbers-driven player. That’s a tough guy to have standing at the center of an organization trying to make something of itself, and in what is now a dreary environment. Rumors that Ichiro resisted the leadership of the previous manager, Mike Hargrove, were all but confirmed when he signed his extension less than two weeks after Hargrove resigned last summer. McLaren was thought to have connected with Ichiro, even yielding to Ichiro’s desire to play right field instead of center, a decision that ultimately may have harmed McLaren’s footing with the other 24 players.
I can see how complaining about the one player the majority of fans come out to watch is a good move.
by Christopher Michael on Jun 20, 2008 11:49 AM PDT reply actions
Whoa, Johnny Mac himself doesn't disagree
Attack of the AP...
Fired Mariners manager John McLaren says “tension and jealousy” among players in the fractured clubhouse contributed to Seattle going from expecting the playoffs to the worst team in the major leagues in three months.“A little divided, pitchers against hitters,” McLaren said Friday morning from Arizona, one day after the Mariners replaced him with bench coach Jim Riggleman.
"Dragons" are actually dinosaurs hunted to extinction by man in the Middle Ages. Check your Chinese calendars people.
Given all the additional ad and merch revenue he must generate...
... I expect Ichiro’s contract pays for itself a few times over.
How many other players on the team can say that?
I mean, I doubt those Washburn jerseys are flying out of team shops, or advertisers want a piece of the Vidro pie.
Vidro wants a piece of the pie
Go Nova
by dbroncos31 on Jun 20, 2008 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Roesnthal is, generally, a waste of time and space.
He’s good when it comes to roster moves and the like because he has good sources, but I don’t believe anything he says about anything else.
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
He is right though
the clubhouse is a legitimate train wreck. This is a fact.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jun 20, 2008 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh, I won't dispute that.
I’m just skeptical that it’s a mess for the reasons he says it it.
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
by Aaron Campeau on Jun 20, 2008 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
"Jealous" may not be the right word
but Ichiro is most definitely an island.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jun 20, 2008 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
"I have talent" atoll?
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
by Aaron Campeau on Jun 20, 2008 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
"I choose not to speak English so I don't have to interact with you" island
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
Doesn't he speak English in the clubhouse?
I thought the translator act was only for the media.
Don't know, never been in the clubhouse
but he doesn’t seem the outgoing gregarious type.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
I've heard he speaks mostly Spanish in the clubouse.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Maybe it's because he's been drinking.
Yes, I'm a girl. Yes, I know baseball. Yes, I even drink beer.
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Jun 20, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Ichiro plays for himself
he just happens to do so in such a way that the rest of the team benefits.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jun 20, 2008 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
So am I
there are several different ways to lead.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jun 20, 2008 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Being good at your job is the best way.
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
by Aaron Campeau on Jun 20, 2008 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm ok with this too
My biggest issue is that this team will never be great when Ichiro is your BEST player.
IMO in 2001 he was maybe our 3rd best player and that is why we were so good.
By VORP, Ichiro was the fifth best player on the team.
Top 10:
77.4 – Boone
70.4 – Freddy
60.6 – Edgar
55.9 – Moyer
50.9 – Ichiro
48.7 – Sele
42.4 – Cameron
42.2 – Olerud
31.6 – Rhodes
30.2 – McLemore
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
The next 5 after that are all pitchers
Abbott, Pineiro, Nelson, Sasaki, Franklin
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Yeah, I know. Not defense independent.
I just don’t know how to rank pitchers and hitters together.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Any time you lose this much, the clubhouse atmosphere is going to suck.
I like midgets more than I should.
Anyone see this on the sidebar of the Rosenthal story?
No doubt the Mariners will want to speak with Indians assistant general manager Chris Antonetti about their GM opening, but there is no guarantee that the interest would be mutual. Antonetti balked at the Cardinals’ opening last off-season, and while the Mariners’ job is attractive, some rival executives are wary of M’s CEO Howard Lincoln. Antonetti is in line to eventually replace Mark Shapiro with the Indians, with Shapiro likely ascending to club president. A’s assistant G.M. David Forst is in a similar position under Billy Beane
Rival executives weary of Lincoln eh? Sounds about right..
by seattlesundevil on Jun 20, 2008 12:56 PM PDT reply actions
I'm doubtful we'll get either Antonetti or Forst.
Realistically, I’m hoping for Kevin Towers or Kim Ng.
LaCava's our best bet
But I still dream on Antonetti.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
So Rosenthal took the same old rumors and turned it into 'The M's clubhouse is toxic'?
What a quality, well researched journalist.
They also don't really like each other
by Jeff Sullivan on Jun 20, 2008 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
So no Scrabble tournament/bbq at Raul's house this year
aw crap. How can I like this team now that I know they don’t like each other? That’s so…un-Seattle!
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
A lot of them actually do like each other
but it’s extremely cliquey.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jun 20, 2008 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Jose Lopez is definitely in the cool kids crowd
Along with Morrow, RRS, and Clement
by Last Fan Of Jose Lopez on Jun 20, 2008 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions
And, of course, their leader Felix
They probably sit around making fun of Vidro
by Last Fan Of Jose Lopez on Jun 20, 2008 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions
To a certain exent, I imagine you're right.
But a lot of teams manage to suck without everyone hating one another. There’s something going on in that clubhouse that is more than just frustration with losing. Between Rosenthal’s blurb and what Mac said in his conference call today, I think it’s pretty apparent that this is a legitimate issue. I don’t know if it’s the language barriers, perceived selfishness, or what, but it’s there.
I guess I just don’t understand why people are jumping on Rosenthal over four paragraphs in his column. LLers may be quite aware that the clubhouse has some issues, but he’s a national sportswriter. We aren’t his audience. This is surely news to a lot of baseball fans, and reporting it is his job.
Name some of those amicable losers
Really, though, a lot of the comments from the exit polling are probably the usual blame-projection you get in these situations.
I don't hear anything negative coming out of Washington
by Jeff Sullivan on Jun 20, 2008 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes. This leads to another observation...
The Nats are clearly rebuilding and had no notion of competing this year, whereas the M’s were expected to contend, and then fell apart on the field. I think that’s another factor.
I don't hear anything negative coming out of San Diego or Colorado
by Jeff Sullivan on Jun 20, 2008 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions
This is one area where I miss Lou
He did an amazing job with Latin players in particular, but he never let the inmates run the prison.
They don't have enough foreginers on their team
to be a catylist for their racism.
by JI on Jun 20, 2008 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
You can see the cliques after one of those rare wins
Especially the walk-off varieties….The easily controlled players (Latin) all celebrate together and laugh. Ichiro glares into mob of players as if to say, ‘I just had two ice cream sandwhiches. Don’t touch me, bitch.’ Kenji is too busy dodging buses to notice we won. Washburn already has a ballgirl in his lap. The white players never know who to celebrate with and just end up running from homeplate to 1st then to the dugout. And somewhere along the line Mark McLemore still grabs the U.S. flag and twirls it around.
I fucking hate you Mariners
Did Bavasi give the players their towels back before he got fired?
That could be causing some attitude problems. Maybe Ichiro and Johjima bring their own towels because they’re so rich, and the other guys are jealous?
I tell you, that Ichiro,
now there’s one guy who really knows where his towel is.
by Two Rs and Two Ls on Jun 20, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
The Cleveland quote, English-Japanese-English:
Saying, going to Cleveland with me, when I who am happy find by my, I’ Because as for d I’ You must strike by your of the surface; d has met.
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
by Aaron Campeau on Jun 20, 2008 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
And another:
I’ Rather than I do m with the television, or or I seeing with the television, I glance which is larger than that I see small was informed. Everyone that does not think of that I look at the same size.
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
by Aaron Campeau on Jun 20, 2008 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm thinking nobody else caught the reference.
by Two Rs and Two Ls on Jun 20, 2008 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Apparently not.
I didn’t.
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
by Aaron Campeau on Jun 20, 2008 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh wait, yeah I do.
I read those books a loooooong time ago.
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
by Aaron Campeau on Jun 20, 2008 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope. Actual babelfish.
Read Hitchhiker’s Guide again. Or read it for the first time.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
Jesus Christ I can't believe I glossed over that.
Whelp, there goes my geek cred for the next month.
I was just going to hang on to this for a while and see what else got referenced...
I mean, the Hitchhiker’s Guide opened up the classic LL “Ichiro hurts this team by…,” the use of the Altavista Babelfish, and Gomez bringing up The Big Lebowski.
Perhaps I fail at memetic engineering.
by Two Rs and Two Ls on Jun 20, 2008 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
And then God vanished in a poof of logic
by Last Fan Of Jose Lopez on Jun 20, 2008 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Mildly related
Washburn in ESPN the Mag in regards to the possibility of a Japanese manager in the MLB: “I don’t think there ever will be. But then again, it wouldn’t surprise me. He would have to know good English if it was going to happen.”
We don't negotiate with terrorists.
First Japan gets nuked a couple times....now the county has been thrown under the bus.
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Jun 21, 2008 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Also, something bothers me about the phrasing of the last sentence.
It doesn’t sound like “good English” at all but I may be wrong.
We don't negotiate with terrorists.
by Mariner John on Jun 21, 2008 12:38 AM PDT up reply actions
The whole thing is Morgan-esque.
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
by Aaron Campeau on Jun 21, 2008 1:33 AM PDT up reply actions
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