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Rosenthal: M's clubhouse is toxic

Superhammy_tiny by Frosty Raptor on Comment 144 comments

Alright then. Ken Rosenthal is taking the pulse of the M's clubhouse (some scrolling required)...

Meanwhile, the Mariners' clubhouse remains toxic, sources say, with both Japanese players, Johjima and Ichiro, drawing resentment. Several starting pitchers dislike throwing to Johjima, and his new contract is a source of envy. Players also are jealous of Ichiro, who follows his own training regimen and is perceived by some to be selfish.

Johjima's contract remains a point of envy? Seriously? Nearly a third of the team makes more than Joh does.

If this is even remotely true then the only proper course of action is to turn the M's roster into a Japanese All-Star team. That should fix the resentment right quick. Yes indeed.

0 recs  |  Comment 144 comments

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So,,,

,,,,this is the result when you emphasize chemistry in building a team….

by rtang on Jun 20, 2008 8:40 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Man, Ichiro's so selfish...

Keeping himself fit and well.

How dare he not follow Vidro’s lead and hit the hot dog stands or Sexson stand around and do nothing.

Favor the Bold

by IcebreakerX on Jun 20, 2008 8:47 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I can't believe that Rosenthal cited Ichiro's workout regimen as being a clubhouse cancer.

Yes, how dare Ichiro use his own intense workout methods to keep himself in shape.

by BrianL on Jun 20, 2008 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ichiro: Bizarro Gaijin.

Brought to you by Carl's Jr.

by acblue on Jun 20, 2008 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Take this as a grain of salt

but I’ve heard from some of my friends who are college coaches that talk to M’s scouts that the clubhouse is pretty much worse than High School when it comes to cliches.

Coach Owens = No Fun Zone

by Scruffy Lefty on Jun 20, 2008 9:06 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm picturing Mean Girls.

Yes, I'm a girl. Yes, I know baseball. Yes, I even drink beer.

by NOLAmarinergirl on Jun 20, 2008 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ooh

Mean Girls era Lindsay Lohan :D~

The poster formerly known as Matt.

by bluemax on Jun 20, 2008 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Holy crap, I read your SN as butthol at first

and had the “weren’t you 9 when this happened?” all typed out and ready to post.

by seattlebruin on Jun 20, 2008 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I actually agree with this statement.

She used to be hot. What happened?

Yes, I'm a girl. Yes, I know baseball. Yes, I even drink beer.

by NOLAmarinergirl on Jun 20, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

cocaine

I'd rather know a little about a lot than a lot about a little

by Sportszilla on Jun 20, 2008 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dead Meme

its a helluva drug.

It makes me feel dirty to note that most of the female actresses in that movie were pretty hot (albeit I haven’t seen the movie) because they’re playing HS girls.

But they were all of age AFAIK…

The poster formerly known as Matt.

by bluemax on Jun 20, 2008 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They were certainly all of age in Canada.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Jun 20, 2008 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Also, I'm always down for some online Grand Theft Auto IV or Rock Band. Gamertag: Phildopip

by Phildopip on Jun 20, 2008 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did y'all not see that movie?

She was hot.

Yes, I'm a girl. Yes, I know baseball. Yes, I even drink beer.

by NOLAmarinergirl on Jun 20, 2008 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Go on...

I fucking hate you Mariners

by kentroyals5 on Jun 20, 2008 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, boss.

Yes, I'm a girl. Yes, I know baseball. Yes, I even drink beer.

by NOLAmarinergirl on Jun 20, 2008 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't look at me.

We’re talking about dragons!

by Wilder. on Jun 20, 2008 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did somebody say dragons?!?

"Dragons" are actually dinosaurs hunted to extinction by man in the Middle Ages. Check your Chinese calendars people.

by Frosty Raptor on Jun 20, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Diane Kruger verboten?

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Jun 20, 2008 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

She looks a little better now.

I usually don’t give a crap about the well-being of Hollywood starlets, but even since Christina RIcci started sucking, I’ve decided to make Lohan my new exception to the rule.

Brought to you by Carl's Jr.

by acblue on Jun 20, 2008 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What!?

Who would’ve thought that the team that has lost the most this year would have the most unpleasant clubhouse.

by hcoguy on Jun 20, 2008 10:19 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Someone should find out who the least toxic clubhouse is...

I can think of about six possibilities off the top of my head.

by hcoguy on Jun 20, 2008 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who can argue with "sources"?

And I’d always heard, and read, that the other players were extremely fond of Ichiro.

by Paytheline on Jun 20, 2008 10:27 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

So which sources do you trust?

The ones who are jealous of Ichiro or the ones who are fond of Ichiro?

You should have left it at “Who can argue with “sources”?”

by Wilder. on Jun 20, 2008 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No.

There was a bylined SI story about Ichiro’s interactions with his fellows based on the author traveling with the team.

by Paytheline on Jun 20, 2008 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How long ago?

Because clubhouses change pretty quickly.

by Wilder. on Jun 20, 2008 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

good ol fashioned racism

glad that;s still around, in spite of all the chemistry.

the artist formerly known as Mere Tantalisers.

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jun 20, 2008 10:42 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

“Players also are jealous of Ichiro, who follows his own training regimen…”

I sense the soft, doughy hand of Vidro in this quote.

the artist formerly known as Mere Tantalisers.

by Bearskin Rugburn on Jun 20, 2008 10:42 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The clubhouse is toxic??

I hope the players don’t get sick!

by seattlebruin on Jun 20, 2008 10:51 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

From a sports.yahoo.com article by Tim Brown.

A favorite of owner Hiroshi Yamauchi, who 11 months ago granted him a five-year, $90-million contract, Ichiro is regarded by some Mariners and most scouts as a self-centered, numbers-driven player. That’s a tough guy to have standing at the center of an organization trying to make something of itself, and in what is now a dreary environment. Rumors that Ichiro resisted the leadership of the previous manager, Mike Hargrove, were all but confirmed when he signed his extension less than two weeks after Hargrove resigned last summer. McLaren was thought to have connected with Ichiro, even yielding to Ichiro’s desire to play right field instead of center, a decision that ultimately may have harmed McLaren’s footing with the other 24 players.

I can see how complaining about the one player the majority of fans come out to watch is a good move.

by Christopher Michael on Jun 20, 2008 11:49 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Whoa, Johnny Mac himself doesn't disagree

Attack of the AP...

Fired Mariners manager John McLaren says “tension and jealousy” among players in the fractured clubhouse contributed to Seattle going from expecting the playoffs to the worst team in the major leagues in three months.

“A little divided, pitchers against hitters,” McLaren said Friday morning from Arizona, one day after the Mariners replaced him with bench coach Jim Riggleman.

"Dragons" are actually dinosaurs hunted to extinction by man in the Middle Ages. Check your Chinese calendars people.

by Frosty Raptor on Jun 20, 2008 11:50 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Given all the additional ad and merch revenue he must generate...

... I expect Ichiro’s contract pays for itself a few times over.

How many other players on the team can say that?

I mean, I doubt those Washburn jerseys are flying out of team shops, or advertisers want a piece of the Vidro pie.

by wlad-o-matic on Jun 20, 2008 12:20 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Roesnthal is, generally, a waste of time and space.

He’s good when it comes to roster moves and the like because he has good sources, but I don’t believe anything he says about anything else.

Brought to you by Carl's Jr.

by acblue on Jun 20, 2008 12:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

He is right though

the clubhouse is a legitimate train wreck. This is a fact.

by Jeff on Jun 20, 2008 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, I won't dispute that.

I’m just skeptical that it’s a mess for the reasons he says it it.

Brought to you by Carl's Jr.

by acblue on Jun 20, 2008 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Jealous" may not be the right word

but Ichiro is most definitely an island.

by Jeff on Jun 20, 2008 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"I have talent" atoll?

Brought to you by Carl's Jr.

by acblue on Jun 20, 2008 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Doesn't he speak English in the clubhouse?

I thought the translator act was only for the media.

by BrianL on Jun 20, 2008 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't know, never been in the clubhouse

but he doesn’t seem the outgoing gregarious type.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Jun 20, 2008 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've heard he speaks mostly Spanish in the clubouse.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Jun 20, 2008 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe it's because he's been drinking.

Yes, I'm a girl. Yes, I know baseball. Yes, I even drink beer.

by NOLAmarinergirl on Jun 20, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ichiro plays for himself

he just happens to do so in such a way that the rest of the team benefits.

by Jeff on Jun 20, 2008 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I"m OK with this

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Jun 20, 2008 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So am I

there are several different ways to lead.

by Jeff on Jun 20, 2008 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm ok with this too

My biggest issue is that this team will never be great when Ichiro is your BEST player.

IMO in 2001 he was maybe our 3rd best player and that is why we were so good.

by Sec 108 on Jun 20, 2008 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

By VORP, Ichiro was the fifth best player on the team.

Top 10:

77.4 – Boone
70.4 – Freddy
60.6 – Edgar
55.9 – Moyer
50.9 – Ichiro
48.7 – Sele
42.4 – Cameron
42.2 – Olerud
31.6 – Rhodes
30.2 – McLemore

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Jun 20, 2008 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The next 5 after that are all pitchers

Abbott, Pineiro, Nelson, Sasaki, Franklin

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Jun 20, 2008 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, I knew Boone and Edgar were better

Damn that was a fun season for 5 months.

by Sec 108 on Jun 20, 2008 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I know. Not defense independent.

I just don’t know how to rank pitchers and hitters together.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Jun 21, 2008 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why?

He has good sources. He’s generally very good when he reports what his sources tell him.

It is only when he tries his hand at the occasional analytical piece that he fails, badly.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jun 21, 2008 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone see this on the sidebar of the Rosenthal story?
No doubt the Mariners will want to speak with Indians assistant general manager Chris Antonetti about their GM opening, but there is no guarantee that the interest would be mutual. Antonetti balked at the Cardinals’ opening last off-season, and while the Mariners’ job is attractive, some rival executives are wary of M’s CEO Howard Lincoln. Antonetti is in line to eventually replace Mark Shapiro with the Indians, with Shapiro likely ascending to club president. A’s assistant G.M. David Forst is in a similar position under Billy Beane

Rival executives weary of Lincoln eh? Sounds about right..

by seattlesundevil on Jun 20, 2008 12:56 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm doubtful we'll get either Antonetti or Forst.

Realistically, I’m hoping for Kevin Towers or Kim Ng.

by BrianL on Jun 20, 2008 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe I'm just a pessimist,

but I think those are pretty long shots, too.

by Teej on Jun 20, 2008 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

LaCava's our best bet

But I still dream on Antonetti.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Jun 20, 2008 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But it's not news.

HEY, THE PLAYERS HATE LOSING!

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Jun 20, 2008 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So no Scrabble tournament/bbq at Raul's house this year

aw crap. How can I like this team now that I know they don’t like each other? That’s so…un-Seattle!

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Jun 20, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They hate one another because they're losing.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Jun 20, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

To a certain exent, I imagine you're right.

But a lot of teams manage to suck without everyone hating one another. There’s something going on in that clubhouse that is more than just frustration with losing. Between Rosenthal’s blurb and what Mac said in his conference call today, I think it’s pretty apparent that this is a legitimate issue. I don’t know if it’s the language barriers, perceived selfishness, or what, but it’s there.

I guess I just don’t understand why people are jumping on Rosenthal over four paragraphs in his column. LLers may be quite aware that the clubhouse has some issues, but he’s a national sportswriter. We aren’t his audience. This is surely news to a lot of baseball fans, and reporting it is his job.

by Teej on Jun 20, 2008 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Name some of those amicable losers

Really, though, a lot of the comments from the exit polling are probably the usual blame-projection you get in these situations.

by Gomez on Jun 20, 2008 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes. This leads to another observation...

The Nats are clearly rebuilding and had no notion of competing this year, whereas the M’s were expected to contend, and then fell apart on the field. I think that’s another factor.

by Gomez on Jun 20, 2008 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or Pittsburgh

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Jun 20, 2008 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yay we're special!

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Jun 20, 2008 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is one area where I miss Lou

He did an amazing job with Latin players in particular, but he never let the inmates run the prison.

by Sec 108 on Jun 20, 2008 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can see the cliques after one of those rare wins

Especially the walk-off varieties….The easily controlled players (Latin) all celebrate together and laugh. Ichiro glares into mob of players as if to say, ‘I just had two ice cream sandwhiches. Don’t touch me, bitch.’ Kenji is too busy dodging buses to notice we won. Washburn already has a ballgirl in his lap. The white players never know who to celebrate with and just end up running from homeplate to 1st then to the dugout. And somewhere along the line Mark McLemore still grabs the U.S. flag and twirls it around.

I fucking hate you Mariners

by kentroyals5 on Jun 20, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whatever

Many of these players will be gone come April.

by chaney on Jun 20, 2008 1:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Did Bavasi give the players their towels back before he got fired?

That could be causing some attitude problems. Maybe Ichiro and Johjima bring their own towels because they’re so rich, and the other guys are jealous?

by Teej on Jun 20, 2008 1:46 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I tell you, that Ichiro,

now there’s one guy who really knows where his towel is.

by Two Rs and Two Ls on Jun 20, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

His translator should give out babelfish.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Jun 20, 2008 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Cleveland quote, English-Japanese-English:
Saying, going to Cleveland with me, when I who am happy find by my, I’ Because as for d I’ You must strike by your of the surface; d has met.

Brought to you by Carl's Jr.

by acblue on Jun 20, 2008 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And another:
I’ Rather than I do m with the television, or or I seeing with the television, I glance which is larger than that I see small was informed. Everyone that does not think of that I look at the same size.

Brought to you by Carl's Jr.

by acblue on Jun 20, 2008 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Apparently not.

I didn’t.

Brought to you by Carl's Jr.

by acblue on Jun 20, 2008 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh wait, yeah I do.

I read those books a loooooong time ago.

Brought to you by Carl's Jr.

by acblue on Jun 20, 2008 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope. Actual babelfish.

Read Hitchhiker’s Guide again. Or read it for the first time.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Jun 20, 2008 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jesus Christ I can't believe I glossed over that.

Whelp, there goes my geek cred for the next month.

by BrianL on Jun 20, 2008 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was just going to hang on to this for a while and see what else got referenced...

I mean, the Hitchhiker’s Guide opened up the classic LL “Ichiro hurts this team by…,” the use of the Altavista Babelfish, and Gomez bringing up The Big Lebowski.

Perhaps I fail at memetic engineering.

by Two Rs and Two Ls on Jun 20, 2008 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bavasi was wrong

Those towels did not tie the room together.

by Gomez on Jun 20, 2008 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mildly related

Washburn in ESPN the Mag in regards to the possibility of a Japanese manager in the MLB: “I don’t think there ever will be. But then again, it wouldn’t surprise me. He would have to know good English if it was going to happen.”

We don't negotiate with terrorists.

by Mariner John on Jun 21, 2008 12:28 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Also, something bothers me about the phrasing of the last sentence.

It doesn’t sound like “good English” at all but I may be wrong.

We don't negotiate with terrorists.

by Mariner John on Jun 21, 2008 12:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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