Lookout Landing: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
New Blog: Voodoo Five for South Florida Bulls Fans!

I Was Wondering When It Would Come To This

The thread below inspired me to take a closer look at Yuniesky Betancourt to see just how much he's actually contributing to this team. For a while we've been assuming that he's a pretty average bat for a shortstop with above-average defense, but how does this stand up to investigation? I decided to avoid work for half an hour to find out.

Let me tell you - it doesn't stand up very well.

When he first came up to the big leagues, Yuni wowed us with his defense, and when the advanced metrics didn't support our opinions we wrote it off as a sample size anomaly. But here's the problem with maintaining that stance: Yuni has more than 3000 innings under his belt now as a Major League shortstop, and the advanced metrics still don't like him very much. Here are the big three to which I have the easiest access:

RZR, 2005-2008

Yuni:
.802, 37 OOZ per 1000 innings
Average SS: .821, 41 OOZ per 1000 innings

PMR, 2005-2007

Yuni: 462 outs per 4000 in play, .115 DER
Average SS: 459 outs per 4000 in play, .115 DER

UZR, 2005-2007

Yuni: -5 runs per 150 games
Average SS: 0 runs per 150 games (duh)

That's bad. The numbers are painting the picture of a guy who's something like -10 < x < 0 runs in the field, relative to his position, and both the agreement and sample size are good enough for us to be able to say this with a fair bit of confidence. I think a lot of us have been giving this some thought for a little while now, what with Yuni's added weight and visibly diminished range, but when you actually spell it out and put it in plain writing...it's a bit of a shock to realize that the thing you appreciated most about a player doesn't exist, and arguably never did.

So that's his defense. What about at the plate? Let's go with wOBA :

Yuni: .303 (career)
Average SS: .316 (2005-2008)

To convert wOBA into runs, you simply divide by 1.15, which gives you runs/PA. Over 600 plate appearances, wOBA puts Yuni at 7 runs below the average shortstop.

But then, wOBA isn't park-adjusted. If you prefer something that is, you can look at Baseball Prospectus' EqA (or you can convert wOBA yourself but let's just keep this simple):

Yuni: .241, 61 EqR per 600 PA (career)
Average SS: .253, 67 EqR per 600 PA (2005-2008)

That's not much better. Depending on what you think of the statistics and how you adjust for Safeco, Yuni again comes out as being -10 < x < 0 runs below the average shortstop, this time with the bat. Which - ignoring baserunning and other minor stuff that generally doesn't make much of a difference either way - gives you a guy who's somewhere between 0 and 20 runs below average for his position per season.

That isn't good. Which means Yuniesky Betancourt isn't good. The fact that he's a shortstop making a paltry $1.25m this year makes him a reasonable value, but for all his enthusiasm and contact and hilarious arm positioning when he's running the bases, he just isn't a good player.

And that's lame.

3 recs  |  Comment 213 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

More from Lookout Landing

Aw Hamburgers

Sep 2009 by Jeff Sullivan - 45 comments

In Former Mariner News

Sep 2009 by Jeff Sullivan - 16 comments

Today's Fun Fact

Sep 2009 by Jeff Sullivan - 40 comments

56-51, Game Notes

Aug 2009 by Jeff Sullivan - 62 comments

Comments

Display:

That is lame.

Because he’s a blast to watch when he’s not frustrating the hell out of you.

I like midgets more than I should.

by Thingray on May 8, 2008 1:13 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Realistically

who could we get to replace him and give us better results?

by BrianL on May 8, 2008 1:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

He's a mediocre shortstop.

Trade him to Toronto! They love mediocre shortstops.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on May 8, 2008 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But theirs can field

I’m this close to advocating a straight-up Yuni/McDonald swap.

You see how far above average Toronto’s team D is? You see how far below average ours is?
Felix deserves to pitch in front of a great defense. At least one year in his career.

I’m hopeful, though by no means certain, that the M’s can arrange that; it’ll take a few years at the minimum now.

by marc w on May 8, 2008 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's all relative

in 2008, Yuni has an RZR of .792 with 6 out of zone plays.
in 2008, Eckstein has an RZR of .875 with 10 out of zone plays.

so if Eckstein can’t field….

by marc w on May 8, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And Eckstein doesn't play every day.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on May 8, 2008 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OSWALDO!!!!

Um. Or not.

Mike Morse

Oh, wait.

FREE WILLIE!!!!

Okay, I’ll stop.

Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum

by PositivePaul on May 8, 2008 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Call up Triunfel!!

Just kidding, just kidding..

I like midgets more than I should.

by Thingray on May 8, 2008 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

When the scouts, or people like me, bemoan the reliability

of defensive metrics, this is the best counter-example going.

There’s never been a player who has garnered such universal acclaim amongst scouts (at least on the defensive side).

I’d still argue that the guy we saw in 2005 is just not the same guy we’re seeing now. He’s lost more than a step, and it’s painfully obvious now. This may be a case where averaging 3 years of data makes him look better than he actually is.

Sad.

by marc w on May 8, 2008 1:37 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

above/below avgerage

I’ve always wondered how close to a normal distribution we get in talent at a position like SS. Looking at PMR, in 2007, there were 13 SS above the mean and 26 below.

It’s evident that Betancourt is not a good player, but simply by holding such a difficult to fill position at an acceptable level without absorbing much of the team’s salary, that’s a fairly significant contribution. I would also guess that, when taken as a whole, his net contribution is about the median.

by MrIncognito on May 8, 2008 1:47 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't know

LAST year was the big eye-opener for me. Forget the errors, he just stopped getting to balls last year. I hoped, fervently, that this would regress to the mean, or that it was impossible to get to balls given up by Horacio and Reefer Jaw.

I guess that wasn’t it.

by marc w on May 8, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

though with the position adjustment, it's daaaamn close

on paper, Lopez is a + defender, I think, which means it’s a toss-up.

by marc w on May 8, 2008 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lopez is a 0 < x < 5 defender max.

I think it looks like gets to a lot of balls, but doesn’t always catch the ball. That ball before the Bautista/Baek implosion the other day represents Lopez’ play in my head. He got there, but missed the ball.

by Jed MC on May 8, 2008 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That came across a little stronger than I meant.

I don’t know enough about baseball to make that solid a claim. He LOOKS like a 0 < x < 5 defender to my lay-eyes.

by Jed MC on May 8, 2008 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's what we had thought about Yuni too

And that was wrong

In the name of the Bedard, the Felix, and the Ichiro, amen.

by rlintott on May 8, 2008 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boo.

Someone needs to make a “Last Fan of Yuniesky Betancourt” screen name.

Or not. I still like him, but I feel like he’s let me down of late. And when his defense was better, it was nice to feel like he was helping the team.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on May 8, 2008 1:48 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

yeeeeesh that's bad

good thing he’s reasonably priced.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on May 8, 2008 1:54 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

His arb years were bought out last April

He’s on a 4 year deal (through 2011) with a club option for 2012.

by marc w on May 8, 2008 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hell if I know.

I guess.

My original sentiment is still hilarious though.

by JI on May 8, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of,

Isn’t it about time that the rumored Felix deal gets done? That would make the M’s recent shittiness easier to endure.

by Teej on May 8, 2008 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP

only we may talk about this, and then only in jest

by JI on May 8, 2008 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Incorrect.

Every time we play the Yankees and Felix is pitching, they bring up the same stories over and over about how he liked the M’s because they weren’t a “big” team, and it seemed like they cared about him, not just the team. I don’t think that = him going to a big market team.

Now, when the Orioles get new ownership…

by Faux on May 8, 2008 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I straight up asked him once

And he laughed and said he signed with Seattle for a reason

by Robert on May 8, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe he'll realize this extra muscle thing isn't working

and slim down for next year. And figure out how to hit.

by r0ry on May 8, 2008 1:55 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

And I'm not so sure it's muscle, either.

It looks like he’s just getting chubby.

by Teej on May 8, 2008 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well regardless

Felix has proved that that can be taken care of as well.

by r0ry on May 8, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, sure.

“Muscle.” Right.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on May 8, 2008 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know it's been said in one way or the other in this thread already

but you can’t undervalue low-priced average (or near average) production. Average is still well above replacement level. I wouldn’t call Yuni not-good. He’s just not great, which is what many had thought previously. Still having an ~average SS for the $1-2 mil or whatever he’s getting a year is a good thing. It allows a team to allocate its money to get excellent players at other positions, although it’s arguable whether the mariners have done this. The only time having average players is bad is when the whole roster is average, and not complemented by superstars (See: Toronto Blue Jays).

the other angels fan

by Eyebrows on May 8, 2008 2:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Right, he is valuable

but I’d say ~average is his best possible scenario right now. The likelihood is that he’s a little below that.

He’s not good. He’s a value to have, but he’s not good.

by Jeff Sullivan on May 8, 2008 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

and it’s worth remembering that he’s bringing in close to $3.5m. This isn’t an MLB-minimum sort of a deal, people.

Still, he’s not killing the team, the contract’s not bad, etc. But we’re paying, per year, the free agent market rate on this guy (if $4m/win is ave. for FA, then I’d say his $3.5/a bit below is in the ballpark). That’s fine, it’s not awful. But when you’ve got young players in arb or in buy-outs, THAT’S where you’ve got to be making up ground – it’s not OK to get free-agent equivalent production from guys like that. It’s not crippling, but it’s frustrating.

by marc w on May 8, 2008 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

avg and replacement value are different

So he’s still a good value at $3.5 mil.

by MrIncognito on May 8, 2008 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't get how the subject and the body of this message connect

Right, he’s below average and above replacement. He’s getting paid roughly what a FA with his production would give you. So… how’s he a good value?
My point is that tying up these arb or pre-arb guys is generally a way to get GUARANTEED value. Given the system, any arb guys you tie up should be average or hopefully a bit better. That’s why it’s just a bit disappointing to see his production drop a bit below average, and the dollars creep up.

by marc w on May 8, 2008 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The math

http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/14/2008-win-values/

The value of a player on the free agent market is wins above replacement, not wins above average.

Lopez is 1-2 wins above replacement, so his value is in the neighborhood of $4.4-$8.8 million (Dave’s number at UUSM was $7.5 million). At a $3.5 million salary, he’s proving the Mariners with enough excess value to go buy a win somewhere else.

by MrIncognito on May 8, 2008 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gotcha

Forgot the positional and RL adj. is that huge.

We’ll have to the magnitude of his defensive…issues is. It could easily eat up a full win this year. That said, considering position, he’s still a net positive. Gotcha.

by marc w on May 8, 2008 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Averaging his $13.75/4 deal.

Jeff’s got the breakdown below, but I was just wingin’ it.

by marc w on May 8, 2008 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

His contract escalates (as you'd expect)

08: $1.25m
09: $2m
10: $3m
11: $4m
12: $6m option or $2m buyout

by Jeff Sullivan on May 8, 2008 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

would really only work if we got a SS back

and those types of deals rarely happen.

Yuni will likely remain a value through 2010, if not for the full contract.

Trade him if you have someone to step in, but otherwise, motivate him to get better.

by Matthew on May 8, 2008 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well yeah

on the other hand, when you have a player who’s perceived value greatly outweighs his actual value you should be looking to take advantage of that situation. I don’t know whether there are any decent one year fill ins on the FA market or if there’s a long term SS out there that makes sense, but it’s something a good organization would explore.

by JI on May 8, 2008 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm.

Any cheap options we could pick up at SS during the FA period that would be ~ $3 million on a 1-3 year deal and comparable to Yuni?

The way I see it, you flip him + talent for a decent young LHB at a corner OF position, sign this Mystery Free Agent SS (think Julio Lougo-ish), and you come out ahead.

by eponymous_coward on May 8, 2008 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Er, Lugo

important thing: he can’t completely suck ala Aurilia, but he can be just OK because he’s cheap but not very good like Yuni.

by eponymous_coward on May 8, 2008 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh and I should add

Good post, Jeff. This is why we have that rec button.

the other angels fan

by Eyebrows on May 8, 2008 2:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

JeffS isn't evil.

He’s the pedophile twin who lusts after Anne Frank.

by BrianL on May 8, 2008 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If it's Anne Frank he's after...

...then he’s a necrophiliac pedophile.

Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum

by PositivePaul on May 8, 2008 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

but it could also be assumed he's anti-Nazi

so there’s that.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on May 8, 2008 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

as would skoorbo.

man, you were doing so well, too. We need one of those construction safety signs:

“JI’s Posts: (x) days without a typo”

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on May 8, 2008 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Finally! Someone not only notices the elephant in the corner of the room...

the person goes and touches the elephant to make sure.

Yuni has been able to get away with his antics because the other 8 guys in the lineup and the field keep raising the bar of sucktitude.

by Wilder. on May 8, 2008 2:38 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Don't touch my elephant.

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Also, I'm always down for some online Grand Theft Auto IV or Rock Band. Gamertag: Phildopip

by Phildopip on May 8, 2008 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

no means no, mr. elephant toucher

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on May 8, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm Sorry to do this

But I am trying my damndest to talk and think in these new and better stats. Yet, I don’t understand the idea behind wOBA. How do I interpret the run values of an event. For instance, the claim that a HR = 1.7… Does that mean that if I hit 10 HR I should (theoretically) have 17 runs? That would make sense, but I have trouble believing that 10 NIBB would equal ~6 Runs… Am I doing this all wrong?

I mean, the wOBA number and it’s application is easy to understand, but since I’m trying so hard to get this stuff, I’d like to get the numbers behind it. Hope this isn’t too annoying…

In the name of the Bedard, the Felix, and the Ichiro, amen.

by rlintott on May 8, 2008 3:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

This is quite complicated.

This first thing to consider is that there are many different states a baseball inning can be in, defined by the number of outs and which bases are occupied (so stuff like 2nd, 0 out, etc) . There end up being 15 of these game states, if I recall correctly.

Now what we do is say for each of these states, how many runs are scored on average between that state and the end of the inning. So bases empty with 2 down won’t give you a very high number, but bases loaded no outs is about 2. This is called run expectancy, and combining that with game states gives you a run expectancy matrix.

Now you can measure the run value of events, by averaging out the change in game state and therefore run expectancy. Say a batter comes up to the plate with the bases loaded and one out, and hits a double which pates 3 guys. The run value of that individual hit would be 3 (the number of runs driven in) + (run value [2nd, 1 out] – run value [loaded, 1 out])). That last term is going to work out as a negative number in this case.

So now we’ve seen how to get run values for an individual hit, you can sum up all the run values for every HR that has happened in the past 5 years and then take the average. Voila, 1.7 runs.

Sorry if that’s a little unclear, I’m a wee bit buzzed.

by Graham on May 8, 2008 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

25 or 6 to 4.

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Also, I'm always down for some online Grand Theft Auto IV or Rock Band. Gamertag: Phildopip

by Phildopip on May 8, 2008 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That makes sense

But I am still unclear on one thing. Does this mean that your average walk is worth .62 runs?

In the name of the Bedard, the Felix, and the Ichiro, amen.

by rlintott on May 8, 2008 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is there a place where I can see all fielders ranked by RZR?

I just want to know on a position by position basis who the best fielders are and trying to find a website that has that info is killing me. Seriously, it gave me cancer.

by DAMellen on May 8, 2008 3:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

And here's a link

to one of the best cancer centers in the country, which should help rid you of that pesky cancer.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on May 8, 2008 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is a cure for cancer.

The FDA won’t approve of it because there is too much damn money in cancer research as well as in other cancer treatments… which only work a percentage of the time.

Makio Murayama is the man with the cure (he may be dead now; 93-years old in 2003 when I frequented his home) and he found the cure for Sickle Cell Anemia back a few decades ago, which also happens to still get plenty of research funds for some reason.

by Wilder. on May 8, 2008 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why didn't he get off his ass

and cure AIDS while he was at it? Prejudice?

by marc w on May 8, 2008 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There might be a cure for AIDS.

You just won’t ever hear of it.

by Wilder. on May 8, 2008 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My uncle worked on a team that was developing a drug

To treat leukemia. It ended up being a cure and never went to market.

by Sec 108 on May 8, 2008 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just going to stop lest I end up

repeating myself multiple times.

by Matthew on May 8, 2008 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Damnit Matthew!

The whole reason I spewed that BS was because your response was making me laugh.

by Sec 108 on May 8, 2008 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A little sore.

I’m sure if it wasn’t I could get hit .350 though

by Matthew on May 8, 2008 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You could get hit .350?

like 35% HBPs for the season?

by seattlebruin on May 8, 2008 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mike Morse doesn't drop the ball

that implies he has to get close enough to catch it.

by seattlebruin on May 8, 2008 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can anybody develop a cure for Bavasi, Armstrong, and Lincoln?

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Also, I'm always down for some online Grand Theft Auto IV or Rock Band. Gamertag: Phildopip

by Phildopip on May 8, 2008 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is one.

Ever hear of kidnapping? Recently approved for incompetent executives

by seattlebruin on May 8, 2008 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dead meme.

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Also, I'm always down for some online Grand Theft Auto IV or Rock Band. Gamertag: Phildopip

by Phildopip on May 8, 2008 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I 34.4% believe that.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on May 8, 2008 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The toppings contain potasium benzoate.

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Also, I'm always down for some online Grand Theft Auto IV or Rock Band. Gamertag: Phildopip

by Phildopip on May 8, 2008 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

*potassium

dammit.

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Also, I'm always down for some online Grand Theft Auto IV or Rock Band. Gamertag: Phildopip

by Phildopip on May 8, 2008 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's bad.

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Also, I'm always down for some online Grand Theft Auto IV or Rock Band. Gamertag: Phildopip

by Phildopip on May 8, 2008 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I 010% Beleive Tihs.

Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum

by PositivePaul on May 8, 2008 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sickle Cell

Is caused by a genetic mutation. In order to cure it, you would have to rewrite the patient’s genetic code. That’s not going to happen any time soon.

It’s currently treatable.

Wikipedia breaks it down pretty well, as usual.

Contrary to what conspiracy theorists like to think, the FDA only controls the US Drug market. There are dozens of regulatory bodies that are happy to look at drugs rejected in the US, so it’s not like the FDA could kill a cure for cancer, even if it wanted to.

by MrIncognito on May 8, 2008 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay, there is not a "cure" in the sense it can't be prevented.

But people born with Sickle Cell can have it treated. Therefore, for individuals there is a cure.

Oh, and I should say I did go a little far with the FDA. The National Cancer Institute wouldn’t allow a cheap, 100% treatable cure for all cancers to make it to the FDA level for approval.

by Wilder. on May 8, 2008 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The current treatment runs about $25 bucks a month

I don’t know why they would allow that cheap treatment on the market but not the crazy Japanese man’s.

last post on this issue

by MrIncognito on May 8, 2008 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I finally found what I was looking for.

I am not sure of the $25/month treatment you are talking about, but the “crazy Japanese man’s” treatment is the Hoxsey formula. But this treatment has been widely considered as “folk medicine” because it only works in rare cases. Well, Murayama added the “cure” for Sickle Cell Anemia, urea, to the Hoxsey formula and now the treatment works every time. And it only takes 3-4 weeks drinking the formula to cure the cancer.

Makio explained to me that the urea allowed the Hoxsey formula to penetrate into the cancerous cells and destroy them. Without urea, the Hoxsey formula struggles to pass through cancerous cells’ layers (I don’t know the names of which layers). This is why the Hoxsey formula only works in rare cases.

Makio cured himself twice with this treatment (many years apart) and many other patients of his with various different types of cancers. ALL of them were cured, but he eventually was forced out of cancer research by his peers and has received countless death threats over the years.

It’s just the way it is. Call it conspiracy theory, but this theory is actually proven… you just won’t ever read about it from a “trusted” source.

by Wilder. on May 8, 2008 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So the secret is adding biological waste

to a ‘treatment’ universally regarded as a fraud? And then it works?

altogether now, I 100% believe this.

by marc w on May 8, 2008 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a treatment that's been through wars

I don’t need your data or nerdspeak to nerd up my cure for cancer. It’s natural, so it must be good for you!

by MrIncognito on May 8, 2008 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is always urea in your system

It’s a product of normal metabolism. Measuring urea levels is a standard lab test (blood urea nitrogen or BUN). In fact, there’s enough floating around your bloodstream that it would be completely pointless to take more.

There is still a Hoxsey center in Mexico. You can go there yourself and get treated for only $3,500.

Hoxsey Clinic
Bio-Medical center
PO Box 727
615 General Ferreira, Colonia Juarez
Tijuana, B.C. Mexico
Telephone: (011) 52-66-84-90-11

by MrIncognito on May 8, 2008 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's mercury in your system, too.

But people are not dying all over the place because the amount floating around our systems is not fatal.

Urea is in our system as well, but there is not an amount great enough to allow the Hoxsey formula to work properly.

Get it. Got it. Good.

by Wilder. on May 9, 2008 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is one.

Ever heard of kidnapping? Recently FDA approved for bad executives.

by seattlebruin on May 8, 2008 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So...

according to this, Eric Byrnes is the most valuable defensive player in baseball followed by Rick Ankiel? That’s a surprise. I knew Byrnes was a solid player, but that seems really high and I had no idea that Rick Ankiel was anywhere near that.

by DAMellen on May 8, 2008 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Out Of Zone (OOZ) plays are also important to take into consideration

but more than anything else, realize that 1+ month is way too small a sample from which to derive any sort of conclusions about a player’s defensive ability. You need a few years.

by Jeff Sullivan on May 8, 2008 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still don't trust individual defensive metrics enough to make any claim on Yuni

being above or below average. I’m just going to call him average and leave it at there. I had small hopes for hit bat though, thats what I’m disappointed in.

by Matthew on May 8, 2008 3:07 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

He’s not good but definitely not holding this team back.

by Edgar for Pres on May 8, 2008 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Apparently Armstrong was on KJR earlier

Courtesey of USSMariner

Armstrong Comments -

"Advanced tickets sales, season tickets, and suites are all up this year. Weather has definately played a roll in the attendance dropping."

"Our team is clearly better than we are playing. The team picked to win the AL this year by many, the Detroit Tigers, is well below .500 and not playing well."

"We are trying to build the brand so when people come to the park they have a good Safeco Field experience. We are trying to cater to women and children."

"I think Bill Bavasi has done an outstanding job. During the Piniella years, I love Pinella, but he would not play young guys. Bavasi has built up our minor league system."

"We are in the 14th biggest market. Really 18th biggest market. Yet we have the 6th highest payroll."

"Bill Bavasi’s job is completely safe."

"Mac has done a good job."

There are the main points.

Holy crap

by nwtrev on May 8, 2008 3:26 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

None of this is surprising or aggravating

unless you’ve never heard Chuck Armstrong speak before, in which case I’ll give you “surprising”. This is the Mariner Party Line, and will be until Chuck retires.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on May 8, 2008 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have never really heard his comments before

So is he that dumb/blind or just out there to talk a bunch of gibberish? Because, yes, that did surprise me.

by nwtrev on May 8, 2008 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Neither dumb nor blind

he 100% believes that the Mariners are on the right track, and will continue to do things exactly as he has done in the past. This is the problem with these Mariners.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on May 8, 2008 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope.

You’re giving these guys WAY too much credit for being honest. Baseball executives spin worse than politicians. Basically, this is public posturing. See my post below.

by eponymous_coward on May 8, 2008 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Our team is clearly better than we are playing." This is sort of true.

What Armstrong has failed to realize yet is that his team is basically a .500 + OR -.050, and that because of the slow start, bet on the -.

by eponymous_coward on May 8, 2008 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also, none of this means jack shit.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20040505&slug=melvin05

Lincoln did his own evaluation, joining the club on its last road trip to Texas, Baltimore and Detroit. The team struggled to a 3-6 record, but Lincoln said he came away impressed with the team’s attitude and effort.

“One thing very apparent to me, from the trip I took with the team, is that (the struggles) are not for want of trying,” Lincoln said. “Or some chemistry problem in the clubhouse, because there is not. I particularly admire the way Bob Melvin has handled our players. He’s remained positive and upbeat. He has the respect of the players.

“We could certainly have waited until the end of the season, but we thought it was the right thing to do now.”

They blew up the team a little over a month later, and fired the guy whose contract they extended in May. You remember the Iraqi Minister of Information? He’d make a hell of a baseball executive.

I would like to say that the rumors that the Mariners are in last place are complete lies.

by eponymous_coward on May 8, 2008 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But Yuni is a magician out there on the field.

A magician I tell you….

At least that’s what the commercial says.

At this point, unless Yuni completely falls off the table defensively, there is going to be a general consensus among casual observers and the FO that thinks Yuni is an amazing shortstop. Not that this is a massive problem or anything mind you but as long as Yuni does a serviceable job at SS he’s going to continue flying under the radar. And as a 9-hole hitter not much will be expected from him offensively.

But yea, that’s too bad. It’s fun to pull for Yuni but he’s certainly replaceable it it ever comes down to it.

by ThundaPC on May 8, 2008 3:27 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

This is like finding out Santa isn't real

You suspect it for a while then someone tells you for a fact and it’s devastating(sp?)

by WCLittleGiant on May 8, 2008 3:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If you used Firefox you could tell if that word was spelled correctly or not (it is).

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Also, I'm always down for some online Grand Theft Auto IV or Rock Band. Gamertag: Phildopip

by Phildopip on May 8, 2008 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

From funny to meme to dead meme in 19 minutes

This place is going to strain my creativity.

by Matthew on May 8, 2008 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Phildopip = Piniella

Refuses to give the young memes a chance.

by Alex B on May 8, 2008 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well don't worry, someday veteran memes like Home Team Rules!

will fall off a cliff like Bret Boone and we’ll have to give new memes a chance

by seattlebruin on May 8, 2008 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thankfully LL has Jeff as the GM instead of Gillick/Bavasi

so there will no panic meme-trades.

God forbid we would ever trade “John Olerud sucks” and “Home team rules” and Corco-bombing to HH for “Panther”

by seattlebruin on May 8, 2008 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just hope that Jeff doesn't throw it all away

For some high-risk, toolsy House memes of questionable age.

by Alex B on May 8, 2008 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's true but demand is driving up the price of House memes

We need to look to the international draftee market.

by Alex B on May 8, 2008 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Winter Sonata

LFoJL would love it

by Alex B on May 8, 2008 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think we should hit up the Japanese meme market.

There’s some real talent to be had there.

by BrianL on May 8, 2008 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

Need to watch out for age-gate with the international market though. There’d be nothing worse than signing a meme only to find that it’s already dead.

by Alex B on May 8, 2008 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not such a problem with the Asian markets

what with the explosion of the interwebs and such.

Rural memes from Africa? Those might be a bigger problem, and I’m sure we’re going to have a few get over here and turn out to be much deader than anticipated

by seattlebruin on May 8, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In FF3

Right click Subject Bar-> Check spelling. You have to do this every time though

by Robert on May 8, 2008 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or... You know... Better than it does.

That’d be nice too.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on May 8, 2008 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

By reading a game thread of your own volition you agree to accept all liability for any and all damage done to your delicate sensibilities.
Start posting about the Mariners »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

Cbs_fantasy_baseball_promo

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Clement_small
The Banner Unveiled

Recent FanPosts

Small
Official NCAA Tournament Day 1 Open Thread
Griffeydome_small
So, "Bullpen Conglomeration Guy" needs a name...
Carrollrookiesbn_copy_small
3/20 -- Return of Flag Football
Small
OTFPOTM, 2010-03-17 - Words With Friends, NCAA Tournament and Beer!
Small
Looking for Help to Upload Photos
Small
MLB TV Premium/ 1 yr for $19.95
Image_small
Unearthing a nice memory. Can you help me out here?
Small
Kill it now! Riggleman and McLaren back again
Small
What makes A-Rod such a good hitter?
Small
Book on the '95 Division Series

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SBNation.com Recent Stories

Milwaukee Brewers third baseman Mat Gamel can't field a bunt by Chicago Cubs' Kosuke Fukudome, of Japan, during the first inning of a baseball game in Chicago, Thursday, Sept. 17, 2009.(AP Photo/Nam Y. Huh)

Brewers Third Baseman Mat Gamel Diagnosed With 'Slightly' Torn Lat

Texas Rangers'  Nelson Cruz, left, and Chris Davis, center, are congratulated by Toby Hall, right, after they scored on a double by Elvis Andrus against the Colorado Rockies in the third inning of  a Cactus League spring baseball game in Tucson, Ariz., on Thursday, March 11, 2010. (AP Photo/Ed Andrieski)

SB Nation's 2010 MLB Previews: Texas Rangers, Dripping With Promise

In this photo taken on Sunday, Feb. 21, 2010, Colorado Rockies pitcher Huston Street throws from the mound during baseball spring training in Tucson, Ariz. Street has not worked out with the team in four days because of a sore shoulder. (AP Photo/Ed Andrieski) +1 updates

Rockies Closer Huston Street To Start Season On DL

More from SBNation.com >


Sexy People

Small Matthew

Wbc_029_small Jeff Sullivan

Marioavy_small JonBBT