Sabermetrics (and people who complain about it)
I was just thinking, does anyone else think the struggle between many bloggers and people like Joe Morgan or sportswriters kinda reminds you of the issue of religion vs. science? on a much smaller and less significant scale, obviously.
Look at the way bloggers like Jeff or Dave or DMZ are treated by casual fans or certain sportswriters. They are constantly written off as if they don't already have a huge following, but sometimes these sportswriters will lash out at them and bloggers like them as if all of the sudden they are a threat. Like fundamentalist christians who don't think that athiests are significant enough to really matter vs. the majority, but get all worked up on the "omg WAR ON CHRISTMAS AND JESUS!". which makes it obvious that they feel threatened and angry at them sometimes.
The way sabermetrics developed also mirrors science vs. religion. At first, it was really only "baseball people" who had been in the game for a long time that could really decide who was good and who wasn't. But now, billy beane and others are proof that there are different ways of evaluating talent that work fine. so you could liken a scout to a priest and a "stathead" to a mathematician or scientist. which would make LL and USSM readers students of the bloggers.
it would also explain the argument between scrappy, hard-working white (sorry, "blue collar") players and "selfish" power hitters who "clog up the basepaths". Just like people who think abstinence is always the key to happiness and alcohol is the devil or sex is evil or whatever can be compared to writers who think that someone like Reggie Willits or Willie Bloomqist is more valuable than someone who isnt so scrappy and wasn't a punter for Nebraska (did you know Darin Erstad punted for Nebraska? how scrappy of him!); those values are simply outdated and not realistic in today's society.
so basically Bill James = Socrates wow that sounds weird but whatever.
kids, never major in Philosophy. it will fuck you up forever.
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Dude. I think you just blew my mind man.....
I like midgets more than I should.
by Thingray on May 30, 2008 3:39 PM PDT 0 recs
*saves page before thread gets out of hand*
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 30, 2008 3:49 PM PDT 0 recs
dangerous waters here. tread carefully.
also, Graham’s right.
by Matthew on May 30, 2008 3:49 PM PDT 0 recs
Just an ordinary Chalybäusian dialectic
Thesis – antithesis => synthesis..
Often attributed to Hegel, the triad is actually Chalybäus ’ characterization of Hegel’s dialectic.
by Steve Nelson on May 30, 2008 3:51 PM PDT 0 recs
Is Religion vs. Science really an issue?
I think some people like seeking out controversy when there really isn’t any.
I think this thread qualifies.
by Wilder. on May 30, 2008 3:52 PM PDT 0 recs
In most of the country, it is.
See Dover, PA. Kansas school board, etc.
You might check out the Flying Spagetti Monster home page as well. It’s a joke that’s run it’s course, but it’s also updated frequently with news.
by MrIncognito on
May 31, 2008 2:28 PM PDT
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You know who wins every time in the religion versus science argument?
No one
by Sec 108 on May 30, 2008 3:52 PM PDT 0 recs
This shouldn't even BE a religion vs science argument though
by Graham on
May 30, 2008 3:54 PM PDT
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My point exactly
Because sabermetrics combined with competent scouting will eventually win.
by Sec 108 on
May 30, 2008 4:08 PM PDT
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and really, they're just two methods aiming toward the same goal.
Scouting and sabermetrics, boiled down, are both about trying to measure tools and skills.
by Matthew on
May 30, 2008 4:09 PM PDT
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FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!
"I'm out there Jerry, and I'm llllllovin' every minute of it!"
by Coach Owens on
May 30, 2008 4:12 PM PDT
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but aren't we the same person?
So, it was my idea as well.
by Matthew on
May 30, 2008 4:14 PM PDT
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As I leave for vacation I must say this
You said “Measure tools”
by Sec 108 on
May 30, 2008 4:13 PM PDT
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I'll disagree here
It’s the same debate in that it’s reason vs. intuition. The is no grand debate between science and religion – science is not trying to dictate morality for the most part. However, there are many places where science and religion are at odds, and these debates mirror the scouts vs. stats very closely. Debating evolution with a creationist is almost exactly the same as debating small ball vs. sabermetrics. It’s anecdotes and gut feeling vs. data.
by MrIncognito on
May 31, 2008 2:33 PM PDT
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If the anecdotes are truthful,
they are also data. The problem with your attempt to characterise SABR as data, and scouting as non data, is that there’s a LOT of data that is not available to SABR analysts looking from the outside in.
How fast a player is running now, vs how fast he was running a week ago, what his bat speed is now, in a game, in training, vs what it was a week ago, in a game, in training is also data.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on
Jun 2, 2008 10:56 AM PDT
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Capitalism FTW!!!
"I'm out there Jerry, and I'm llllllovin' every minute of it!"
by Coach Owens on
May 30, 2008 4:03 PM PDT
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As a Christian blogger
I’m confused. Am I the revolutionary or the establishment? Am I at war with myself? Should I be mad that I’m holding me back?
Or, you know, maybe, these contrived divisions are dumb.
by davidcameron on May 30, 2008 4:01 PM PDT 0 recs
Relax Graham. Don't try to take over USSM
in a bloody coup. Watch out, Dave!
"I'm out there Jerry, and I'm llllllovin' every minute of it!"
by Coach Owens on
May 30, 2008 4:04 PM PDT
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doesn't matter
you’re the tool of capitalism
Go Fo Broke!
by eknpdx on
May 30, 2008 4:07 PM PDT
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re: "Should I be mad that I’m holding me back?"
Yes.
We’re at war here, Dave. I don’t have time for your nuance or self-reflection.
Pick a damn side, get really mad, and hurl some invective, or I’ll find someone who will.
by marc w on
May 30, 2008 4:07 PM PDT
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My arms deal out the PAIN, it's true
Better than you and your…
wait, I thought YOU were the arms dealer….
by marc w on
May 30, 2008 4:14 PM PDT
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Oh damn
I misremembered. At least Dave’s not an ARMS DEALER like ME, MARC?
by Graham on
May 30, 2008 4:15 PM PDT
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vote Jeff/Matthew/Graham
we’ll provide arms as well as girls!
oh wait, wrong thread.
by Matthew on
May 30, 2008 4:16 PM PDT
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NO POLITICS!
"I'm out there Jerry, and I'm llllllovin' every minute of it!"
by Coach Owens on
May 30, 2008 4:17 PM PDT
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The onyl people campaigning for you will be brainwashed hippies.
-aaron c.
by acblue on
May 30, 2008 4:21 PM PDT
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I was going to bitch at you.
Then I noticed that you’re now making fun of yourself in your sig. So Good on you.
-aaron c.
by acblue on
May 30, 2008 4:31 PM PDT
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Stop!
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
by Coach Owens on
May 30, 2008 4:51 PM PDT
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Do you have a mental disease?
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on
May 30, 2008 4:54 PM PDT
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Seriously, do you guys not see what's going on here?
Or is it just some game?
PLEASE, GRAHAM, STOP!
by Coach Owens on
May 30, 2008 4:57 PM PDT
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Graham (or some other Admin, but most likely Graham)
keeps changing my signature.
Graham is [amazingly awesome]!
by Coach Owens on
May 30, 2008 4:59 PM PDT
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You don't have to make excuses for your love for Graham
by OlSalty on
May 30, 2008 5:00 PM PDT
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!1
BEER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
by Coach Owens on
May 30, 2008 5:03 PM PDT
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I'm the victim here!
Somebody keeps changing my signature! Maybe it isn’t Graham, but it’s somebody!
Robert is [amazingly awesome]!
by Coach Owens on
May 30, 2008 5:04 PM PDT
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Must be multiple personalities
Is Coach there? We’d like to speak with Coach now….
by OlSalty on
May 30, 2008 5:05 PM PDT
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I was an admin last night. They dont have those powers
Stop trying to get attention
by Robert on
May 30, 2008 4:59 PM PDT
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Coach, either your browser is playing tricks on you
or you’ve lost your mind. I’m willing to bet on the latter.
by BrianL on
May 30, 2008 5:00 PM PDT
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Seems like a perfectly normal Coach meltdown to me
Is something amiss?
by OlSalty on
May 30, 2008 4:58 PM PDT
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I'm not seeing anything weird.
Other than the freaky furry picture with the prosthetic-arm lady below this post.
by BrianL on
May 30, 2008 4:58 PM PDT
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Hmm
I suspect that if you were less Coachy, random misfortunes would not rain down upon you with quite so much frequency.
by Graham on
May 30, 2008 4:58 PM PDT
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What?
That girl is like a white, female Tayshaun Prince. She’s like 5’9” with a 7’ wingspan.
by marc w on
May 30, 2008 4:26 PM PDT
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[Insert obligatory "Go yiff in hell" statement here]
by BrianL on
May 30, 2008 4:33 PM PDT
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It's pretty strange looking, I'll give you that.
-aaron c.
by acblue on
May 30, 2008 4:38 PM PDT
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Oh damn!
It is a fake arm!
I like midgets more than I should.
by Thingray on
May 30, 2008 5:05 PM PDT
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I'm pretty sure you guys don't have to be voted for
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on
May 30, 2008 4:37 PM PDT
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Nah, he's in England.
England sucks.
"I'm out there Jerry, and I'm llllllovin' every minute of it!"
by Coach Owens on
May 30, 2008 4:15 PM PDT
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