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Sabermetrics (and people who complain about it)

I was just thinking, does anyone else think the struggle between many bloggers and people like Joe Morgan or sportswriters kinda reminds you of the issue of religion vs. science? on a much smaller and less significant scale, obviously.

Look at the way bloggers like Jeff or Dave or DMZ are treated by casual fans or certain sportswriters. They are constantly written off as if they don't already have a huge following, but sometimes these sportswriters will lash out at them and bloggers like them as if all of the sudden they are a threat. Like fundamentalist christians who don't think that athiests are significant enough to really matter vs. the majority, but get all worked up on the "omg WAR ON CHRISTMAS AND JESUS!". which makes it obvious that they feel threatened and angry at them sometimes.

The way sabermetrics developed also mirrors science vs. religion. At first, it was really only "baseball people" who had been in the game for a long time that could really decide who was good and who wasn't. But now, billy beane and others are proof that there are different ways of evaluating talent that work fine. so you could liken a scout to a priest and a "stathead" to a mathematician or scientist. which would make LL and USSM readers students of the bloggers.

it would also explain the argument between scrappy, hard-working white (sorry, "blue collar") players and "selfish" power hitters who "clog up the basepaths". Just like people who think abstinence is always the key to happiness and alcohol is the devil or sex is evil or whatever can be compared to writers who think that someone like Reggie Willits or Willie Bloomqist is more valuable than someone who isnt so scrappy and wasn't a punter for Nebraska (did you know Darin Erstad punted for Nebraska? how scrappy of him!); those values are simply outdated and not realistic in today's society.

so basically Bill James = Socrates wow that sounds weird but whatever.

kids, never major in Philosophy. it will fuck you up forever.

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Dude. I think you just blew my mind man.....

I like midgets more than I should.

by Thingray on May 30, 2008 3:39 PM PDT   0 recs

*saves page before thread gets out of hand*

Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.

by BrettJMiller on May 30, 2008 3:49 PM PDT   0 recs

Just an ordinary Chalybäusian dialectic

Thesis – antithesis => synthesis..

Often attributed to Hegel, the triad is actually Chalybäus ’ characterization of Hegel’s dialectic.

by Steve Nelson on May 30, 2008 3:51 PM PDT   0 recs

Is Religion vs. Science really an issue?

I think some people like seeking out controversy when there really isn’t any.

I think this thread qualifies.

by Wilder. on May 30, 2008 3:52 PM PDT   0 recs

In most of the country, it is.

See Dover, PA. Kansas school board, etc.

You might check out the Flying Spagetti Monster home page as well. It’s a joke that’s run it’s course, but it’s also updated frequently with news.

by MrIncognito on May 31, 2008 2:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

My point exactly

Because sabermetrics combined with competent scouting will eventually win.

by Sec 108 on May 30, 2008 4:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

and really, they're just two methods aiming toward the same goal.

Scouting and sabermetrics, boiled down, are both about trying to measure tools and skills.

by Matthew on May 30, 2008 4:09 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'll disagree here

It’s the same debate in that it’s reason vs. intuition. The is no grand debate between science and religion – science is not trying to dictate morality for the most part. However, there are many places where science and religion are at odds, and these debates mirror the scouts vs. stats very closely. Debating evolution with a creationist is almost exactly the same as debating small ball vs. sabermetrics. It’s anecdotes and gut feeling vs. data.

by MrIncognito on May 31, 2008 2:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

If the anecdotes are truthful,

they are also data. The problem with your attempt to characterise SABR as data, and scouting as non data, is that there’s a LOT of data that is not available to SABR analysts looking from the outside in.

How fast a player is running now, vs how fast he was running a week ago, what his bat speed is now, in a game, in training, vs what it was a week ago, in a game, in training is also data.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jun 2, 2008 10:56 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Wrong

Capitalists always win.

Go Fo Broke!

by eknpdx on May 30, 2008 3:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Capitalism FTW!!!

"I'm out there Jerry, and I'm llllllovin' every minute of it!"

by Coach Owens on May 30, 2008 4:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

As a Christian blogger

I’m confused. Am I the revolutionary or the establishment? Am I at war with myself? Should I be mad that I’m holding me back?

Or, you know, maybe, these contrived divisions are dumb.

by davidcameron on May 30, 2008 4:01 PM PDT   0 recs

Relax Graham. Don't try to take over USSM

in a bloody coup. Watch out, Dave!

"I'm out there Jerry, and I'm llllllovin' every minute of it!"

by Coach Owens on May 30, 2008 4:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

doesn't matter

you’re the tool of capitalism

Go Fo Broke!

by eknpdx on May 30, 2008 4:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

re: "Should I be mad that I’m holding me back?"

Yes.
We’re at war here, Dave. I don’t have time for your nuance or self-reflection.
Pick a damn side, get really mad, and hurl some invective, or I’ll find someone who will.

by marc w on May 30, 2008 4:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

My arms deal out the PAIN, it's true

Better than you and your…

wait, I thought YOU were the arms dealer….

by marc w on May 30, 2008 4:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh damn

I misremembered. At least Dave’s not an ARMS DEALER like ME, MARC?

by Graham on May 30, 2008 4:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

vote Jeff/Matthew/Graham

we’ll provide arms as well as girls!

oh wait, wrong thread.

by Matthew on May 30, 2008 4:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

NO POLITICS!

"I'm out there Jerry, and I'm llllllovin' every minute of it!"

by Coach Owens on May 30, 2008 4:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

NO YOU!

This platform endorsed by all parties.

by Matthew on May 30, 2008 4:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

COACH OWENS FOR LL,

2008!!

John Olerud sucked

by Coach Owens on May 30, 2008 4:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I was going to bitch at you.

Then I noticed that you’re now making fun of yourself in your sig. So Good on you.

-aaron c.

by acblue on May 30, 2008 4:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Nope.

Look at this picture guys!

by Coach Owens on May 30, 2008 4:38 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

CURSE YOU GRAHAM!

THIS ISN’T FAIR!

NO! STOP!

by Coach Owens on May 30, 2008 4:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Stop!

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

by Coach Owens on May 30, 2008 4:51 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Do you have a mental disease?

Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.

by BrettJMiller on May 30, 2008 4:54 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Seriously, do you guys not see what's going on here?

Or is it just some game?

PLEASE, GRAHAM, STOP!

by Coach Owens on May 30, 2008 4:57 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Graham (or some other Admin, but most likely Graham)

keeps changing my signature.

Graham is [amazingly awesome]!

by Coach Owens on May 30, 2008 4:59 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

See?!

Graham is [amazingly awesome]!

by Coach Owens on May 30, 2008 4:59 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Coach, either your browser is playing tricks on you

or you’ve lost your mind. I’m willing to bet on the latter.

by BrianL on May 30, 2008 5:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not seeing anything weird.

Other than the freaky furry picture with the prosthetic-arm lady below this post.

by BrianL on May 30, 2008 4:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hmm

I suspect that if you were less Coachy, random misfortunes would not rain down upon you with quite so much frequency.

by Graham on May 30, 2008 4:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm pretty sure you guys don't have to be voted for

Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.

by BrettJMiller on May 30, 2008 4:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Nah, he's in England.

England sucks.

"I'm out there Jerry, and I'm llllllovin' every minute of it!"

by Coach Owens on May 30, 2008 4:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs