Forward Thinking
by ASUBoyd on May 26, 2008 2:10 PM PDT
137 comments
Perhaps this falls under the "rosterbation" category to an extent, but who cares.
Let's examine the potential 2009 free agency market for the M's.
Current payroll, ~$117,666,482
Contracts coming off after this year:
Ho Ram: ~500,000
Wilkerson: ~2.7 mil
Sexson ~14-15m
Vidro (potentially) ~8.5 mil
Raul ~4.5 mil
Bloomquist ~850,000
Cairo ~850,000
Misc roster filler like Rhodes, Dickey
So assuming the team keeps Raul for about the same, we could potentially have 25-28 million to spend. Where would everbody spend this and what sorts of contracts?
Obviously Tex will be popular, but what if we can't outprice the Yanks? Where do we turn then?
0 recs |
137 comments
Email
Print
Comments
Freely available talent
It’s the way to go at 1B.
by JI on May 26, 2008 2:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
n/s
I think he means guys like Stairs, Pena, Cust, Hinske, etc. are around every year. They don’t cost much and they give you solid production at 1B/DH.
FREE JEREMY REED!!
by MFAN on May 26, 2008 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotcha.
Kevin Millar is available next year.
There are a lot of 1Bs who people would have loved to have had 4-6 years ago – Sexson, Giambi, Delgado, Frank Thomas, Jim Thome, Nomar.
by ASUBoyd on May 26, 2008 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way to completely miss the point.
There is no one like Stairs, Pena, Cust, Hinske available next year.
by ASUBoyd on May 26, 2008 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's always somebody like that available
by Jeff on May 26, 2008 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's apparently about to sign with the Yankees
by Jeff on May 26, 2008 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He told me if we have a vacancy at 1B next year he'll see if he can come back.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 26, 2008 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
How are you able to talk to the players?
by Fin on May 26, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They'll talk to you during BP every now and then. I'm a season ticket holder
By the second or third game of the series they know who I am and will say a few words.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 28, 2008 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some how you took
finding a decent underrated layer available @ $350k to mean “sign an over the hill free agent that will likely cost millions of dollars.”
by JI on May 26, 2008 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Somehow you have no reading comprehension.
Just because I wrote there are a lot of 1bs who people would have loved to have half a decade ago, doesnt mean I was suggesting them. I was commenting on the list. Christ.
First Basemen
Rich Aurilia SF
Ben Broussard TEX
Carlos Delgado * NYM
Nomar Garciaparra LAD
Jason Giambi * NYY
Wes Helms PHI
Kevin Millar BAL
Richie Sexson SEA
Mark Teixeira ATL
Frank Thomas OAK
Jim Thome CWS
Daryle Ward CHC
Thats the list.
by ASUBoyd on May 26, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
except for LaHair, because he sucks
FREE JEREMY REED!!
by MFAN on May 26, 2008 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that is true. I cant find any good lists on who is available.
That list does have 6 year free agents though.
by ASUBoyd on May 26, 2008 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it's a 6 year free agent, the odds are really slim
The point of ‘freely available talent’ isn’t that they have to be ABSOLUTELY free (although Carlos Pena was- in the sense of being signed to a MiLB contract), it’s that it doesn’t cost some sort of top prospect. Jack Cust was traded to the A’s last year for cash considerations or whatever.
The idea here is making a run at guys like…oh, Brian Myrow, Mike Hessman, maybe even Adam Lind at this point.
There are always players like this around; some of them become, er, Carlos Pena or Jack Cust, and a great majority become Kevin Witt. But if you get a few, and get a bit of luck, you can get league ave. production (or better) for league minimum or close to it.
This is the opposite of signing a major league free agent, even one whose value is in decline due to aging and sucking. I think we’re all clear that the WORST move would be to sign a ‘name’ 1B who’s like 35+. On a multi-year deal.
If it’s not a great player, then it should be freely available talent; that way, you save money to splurge on a superstar player. And then hope that turns out better than the Bedard thing (so far).
by marc w on May 26, 2008 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup, I understand the strategy.
I just wish it wasn’t such a pipedream with our FO involved.
by ASUBoyd on May 26, 2008 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
They’ve got money in their pockets, which is why your two lists of players are more likely – even though it’s the opposite of the freely-available strategy.
I’d be fascinated to see what Toronto wants for Lind.
by marc w on May 26, 2008 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Given how they've built their team, they'd probably take Reed and a throw-in.
They seem to want a team of only pitching and defence.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
by Llewdor on May 27, 2008 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that why they picked up Wilkerson?
I know what you’re saying, but Matt Stairs, Brad Wilkerson, and Adam Lind rotate around Shannon Stewart for that last OF spot. They can’t have tunnel vision given the type of player they’re looking for here.
That said, I think Reed for Lind would be a GREAT trade for all parties. Reed gives them, er, more defense and Lind might get us OBP+SLG. Both guys really need a fresh start in a new org.
by marc w on May 27, 2008 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be for it.
And we know how much Toronto loves those white guys with long hair. I am skeptical, though, that they’d deal Lind that easy.
by Jeff on May 27, 2008 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So am I
but then, why the pick-up of Wilkerson? Why the off-season move for Shannon Stewart? This isn’t quite a ‘johjima extended 3 years’ situation, but it’s still sort of odd.
Don’t forget that Toronto has Travis Snider in AA right now as well – a guy who’s the same sort of player, only better. Lind has less value to Toronto than to any other club right now.
by marc w on May 27, 2008 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The entire point is that you've never heard of these guys and they'll give you decent production
if there was a guy we’d heard of out there, he wouldn’t be a Stairs, Pena, Cust or Hinske
by seattlebruin on May 26, 2008 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting.
Rocco Baldelli potentially is a free agent this offseason. Assuming that Tampa Bay has had their fill of Lou Gehrig 2.0, would it be a decent move to offer him a sub 1mil contract for a season?
by BrianL on May 26, 2008 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure yet.
He apparently took BP two weeks ago and was feeling “upbeat”
by BrianL on May 26, 2008 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that would be a steal if the team could somehow sign him for 500,000
He wants to keep playing
by ASUBoyd on May 26, 2008 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt Tampa Bay resigns him.
They’ve already declined his option for next season, so he’ll be on the market.
If he can play 15-20 games at the tail end of this season, I’d love to see Seattle offer him a 500-800K minor league contract with a spring training invitation.
by BrianL on May 26, 2008 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's probably a low-risk, potentially high reward proposition.
All we have to do is send Rocco to the Princeton-Plainsboro teaching hospital and get their head of diagnostic medicine to look at him.
by BrianL on May 26, 2008 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's done.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on May 26, 2008 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK JI
Found a different with some players youd approve of.
Rich Aurilia, SF
Ben Broussard, TEX
Sean Casey, DET
Tony Clark, ARI
Scott Hatteberg, CIN
Wes Helms, PHI
Eric Hinske, BOS
Ryan Klesko, SF
Doug Mientkiewicz, NYY
Kevin Millar, BAL
Richie Sexson, SEA
Mark Sweeney, LAD
Mike Sweeney, KC
Mark Teixeira, ATL
Daryle Ward, CHC
Craig Wilson, CWS
Frank Thomas, TOR
Carlos Delgado, NYM
Jason Giambi, NYY
Jim Thome, CWS
Who would be your choice? Hinske?
by ASUBoyd on May 26, 2008 3:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We won't have the full list until Novemeber, so why dwell on it?
Plus, I very much doubt Hinske will be freely available.
I freely admit that I don’t have a rolodex of good ML firstbasemen in my head because I don’t follow this stuff as closely as Jeff or Matthew; those guys could probably give you names.
by JI on May 26, 2008 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not dwelling on it, just thought it would be fun to speculate.
Not trying to grill you, just asking who you would like to see in an M’s uni.
by ASUBoyd on May 26, 2008 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coach...we need you to make a collage of faces again
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on May 26, 2008 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I replace Reyes with Hanley.
Reyes plays better D, but holy crap Hanley’s bat is awesome and with the rest of that team you could afford to lose a little defense. It’s not like the rest of the team is bad at defense either.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 26, 2008 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hanley can't play D to save his fucking life
he’s a LFer, (maybe CF or 2B but probably LF)
by JI on May 26, 2008 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but think of it this way.
Defense:
C Mauer (great)
1B Pujols (great)
2B Utley (great)
3B A-Rod (good)
SS Ramirez (incredibly awful)
LF Hamilton (good)
CF Sizemore (good)
RF Ichiro (great)
With a defense that good outside of SS, you can survive shitty SS D for the offensive upgrade. His defensive shortcoming may also be less of a shortcoming with two good defenders on either side of him.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 26, 2008 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I am with you.
And frankly he has been better than Reyes and Betancourt at defense this season. Better ZR and RF. So he is not crippling.
by ASUBoyd on May 26, 2008 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not just use the good defenisve player who has yet to hit his peak?
by JI on May 26, 2008 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think Hanley has reached his peak?
He is 6 months younger than Reyes. It would be hard to get much better though..
by ASUBoyd on May 26, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is anyone a Pat Burrell fan? Would he be a good fit for a corner OF spot?
Maybe left? put Raul at 1b?
by ASUBoyd on May 26, 2008 3:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
An-Dy Har-Grove
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on May 26, 2008 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We should start Step-hen Stras-burg chants at LL meetups
by Graham on May 26, 2008 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why the hell aren't the Strasburg standings on the front page?
by JI on May 26, 2008 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I try start nasty chants about you on account of you never being there,
by Robert on May 26, 2008 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm always there in spirit
Making fun of your garden gnome looks and swinging bunt power
by Graham on May 26, 2008 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I worked on that this weekend
I hit a ball past third!
by Robert on May 26, 2008 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I prefer the long syllabic chant for Strasberg
STRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS BERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRG
by Gomez on May 26, 2008 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ooh, I could get on that
it’s been a long time since I’ve been able to bust out an “EEEEEEEEEEEEDGARRRRRRRRRRRRRRR”
by Two Rs and Two Ls on May 27, 2008 3:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I liked him
But he’s a terrible fit for the ballpark. I trumpted it till I saw his spray chart. If the M’s signed him it’d be like signing Richie to his big deal. Yeah, he’s good, and he’ll give you a couple good years despite the park hurting him…but in the long run it’ll look bad. Very similar too—RH power hitters ( though Richie sprays the ball better) and both 30ish. Good player, bad fit for the park, too much money.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 26, 2008 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about a trade for a 1B
A deadline deal of Putz for Braun or Laporta? Braun is probably too much especially with how Putz has looked.
I still don’t know if I subscribe to the fact that 1B are easy to come by. Sure maybe a league average 1B but getting a very good 1B for cheap would be tough I think. When teams succeed at it I’d say there is quite a bit of luck involved. I’m not saying that I want to overpay for somebody but it seems like (once again) the best way to get premium talent is to develop it yourself.
Anybody out there think Pena, Hinske, or Stairs were gonna be worth what they’ve turned into?
by Edgar for Pres on May 26, 2008 3:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think they're necessarily that easy to find
but the effort and resources you’d put into landing one would be better spent on a more skilled position. I’m all about going cheap at 1B/DH/LF/RF and pouring my money into the rest.
by Jeff on May 26, 2008 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been ok with trading Putz since he became a elite level closer
by Robert on May 26, 2008 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wanted to see if we could get Bruce and Votto back for him last offseason
by Graham on May 26, 2008 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we trade Putz do we plug Morrow in at closer? Or use another guy/committee?
I think we could get someone very valuable back for Putz.
by ASUBoyd on May 26, 2008 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd give the closer job to Green
FREE JEREMY REED!!
by MFAN on May 26, 2008 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah. being bad against lefties would hurt
but he’s not incapable of getting them out. If Lowe could get back too 2005 form I’d give him the job.
FREE JEREMY REED!!
by MFAN on May 26, 2008 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because having an elite closer is such a big deal for us right now
by Jeff on May 26, 2008 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can trade Putz if you can get justifiable value
but Green would be a fucking nightmare at closer. I’d go to RRS first, or Rhodes because I like to laugh.
by JI on May 26, 2008 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who cares? There aren't many games to close these days
If some idiot team wants to give a the M’s a bounty for a not 100% Putz then by all means, let them. I just wonder if the M’s would accept a trade for him even if it was offered. I would hope that they would at least entertain such offers.
Lowe could very well turn into a good closer with some grooming. Morrow shouldn’t be anywhere near the closer position right now, he needs to be learning how to pitch long innings.
by marinator on May 26, 2008 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not for pouring resouces into a 1B/DH unless they are a genuine superstar on the right side of 30
Albert Pujols/Frank Thomas/Todd Helton Types
by JI on May 26, 2008 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
La Porta is destroying the minors
If the M’s got him, I’d be ecstatic. He was my number one for the m’s to pick in that draft.
by Kevman22 on May 26, 2008 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...which means
he won’t be freely available. That said, he’d be great to get.
K’s under control this year, which kind of surprises me.
by marc w on May 26, 2008 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't see Percival continuing his success
He has to fail at some point.
Maybe Putz -> Rays, and some young good players -> us
by marinator on May 26, 2008 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only if he gets hurt
guy’s dealing, he’s not Trevor Hoffman.
by JI on May 26, 2008 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I admit I haven't seen him pitch much
but holy hell he’s almost 40. when does he hit the wall?
by marinator on May 26, 2008 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When his arm blows up
He can still hit 96/97 amazingly, but can only be used two straight without getting very, very flat. He didn’t have surgery on his arm, so he’s essentially playing with the house’s money until it blows.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on May 27, 2008 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd bring back Dickey
I’d go get a LF and then stockpile cheap fringe AAAA guys with upside that might be able to help.
by Gomez on May 26, 2008 6:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That's funny that you think we're getting rid of Ra_l and WFB
How do you come to this conclusion?
by marinator on May 26, 2008 9:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Futurama is good.
It makes me happy that there are new episodes.
by BrianL on May 26, 2008 10:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Explain
We don't negotiate with terrorists.
by Mariner John on May 26, 2008 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why Futurama is good, or why I'm happy there's new episodes?
by BrianL on May 26, 2008 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
? there's new episodes?
this world is full of never ending goodness. Well, except for the Mariners
by seattlebruin on May 27, 2008 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't know there were new episodes
We don't negotiate with terrorists.
by Mariner John on May 27, 2008 12:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are 4 made for DVD movies rolling out this year
The first one is out already, Bender’s Big Score… it’s pretty good
by LongLiveTheKings on May 27, 2008 4:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh. I bought the DVD movie month's ago.
It’s “okay” at best. They really missed the mark IMHO.
I like midgets more than I should.
by Thingray on May 27, 2008 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was aware of this
I just thought you meant there was another one out.
We don't negotiate with terrorists.
by Mariner John on May 29, 2008 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
