18-33
by Jeff on May 25, 2008 1:22 PM PDT
in Awful News
132 comments
That was new.
Biggest Contribution: Jarrod Washburn, +13.7%
Biggest Suckfest: JJ Putz, -56.0%
Most Important AB: Ichiro homer, +11.2%
Most Important Pitch: Molina double, -27.5%
Total Contribution by Pitcher(s): -55.1%
Total Contribution by Hitters: -10.5%
Total Contribution by Opposition: +15.6%
(What is this chart?)
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132 comments
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Shouldn't have looked at the gift horse.
by Matthew on May 25, 2008 1:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
DON'T LOOK INTO THE EYES OF THE GIFT HORSE IT WILL TURN YOU TO STONE
By which I mean TURN YOU INTO RAUL IBANEZ.
by esoteric on May 25, 2008 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could also apply to Ichi or Wlad..
I mean shouldn’t SOMEONE take initiative and go for that popup. Its hard to be down on Ichiro cause of his awesomeness but its hard to be awesome and 18-33 at the same time.
by seamariners85 on May 25, 2008 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
First six words to come to mind..
What. The. Fuck. Was. That. Shit.
by seamariners85 on May 25, 2008 1:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd be tempted to just shut down JJ at this point
No reason to risk further injury
by JLC on May 25, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude.. I left when it was 5-2 to go to the grocery store
I come back just in time to see Raul swinging at a 3rd strike above his head to end the game. All I can say is… huh?
by seattlesundevil on May 25, 2008 1:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't feel too bad...
At least you missed Vidro watch strike 3, only to get a second chance to watch strike 3, which of course he didnt pass up..
by seamariners85 on May 25, 2008 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vidro is still playing for a vesting option
by JLC on May 25, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats what I was just thinking..
I know it’s not Mac’s fault – but SOMETHING has to be changed and that is the easiest thing to make a switch on.. Yea it’s just change for the sake of change, but when you are 18-33 and getting swept on an entire road trip – who says that’s wrong?
by seattlesundevil on May 25, 2008 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
God woke me up early just in time to see the M's lose.
That joke is getting old. Wasn’t funny when he did it when the M’s had a 2-0 lead in the 9th vs. Baltimore either…
by ThundaPC on May 25, 2008 1:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Chemistry...
doesn’t exist. But I will give credit to one thing – they do look like they’re not trying at all. It would be nice if there was SOME way to yell at them to get them to try harder. Baker’s “late bus” thing actually is starting to get to me – no one on this lousy team takes extra batting practice when they are struggling? Why the hell not?! You all suck!
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on May 25, 2008 1:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Batting practice doesn't matter
and of course it looks like they aren’t trying. They’re losing. Losing teams look worse than winning teams.
by Jeff on May 25, 2008 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, obviously.
But I’m tired of watching Betancourt watch a ball roll by him rather than run for it and miss. Things of that nature. I don’t expect them to win. I expect them to look as though they are making millions a year for playing a game.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on May 25, 2008 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My similar quibble borne of frustration
I hate the fact that professional sportsmen can be so ridiculously out of shape and still qualify for multi-year contracts.
If I showed up at my doctor’s surgery looking like Silva then he would give me a stern warning about the dangers of obesity.
by Alex B on May 25, 2008 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is why watching the Rays is fun.
They seem to like playing baseball.
by BrianL on May 25, 2008 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bad "Chemistry"
Results when a bad team plays really really bad baseball.
by josh_h on May 25, 2008 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about Terry Tate, Office Linebacker
Have him come out and tackle the players when they make a bad play/suck at the plate, etc.
by josh_h on May 25, 2008 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I approve of this.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on May 25, 2008 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baker actually reduced the "chemistry" argument to as intelligent a summary as possible for one who defends it:
You’ve seen examples presented to you of clubhouse troubles with the Mariners. Heard comments from George Sherrill, Bill Bavasi and now Carlos Silva, suggesting the Mariners clubhouse is not the greatest place to be. You can ask questions about how this relates to on-field play. You can make comparisons to what others - like Jim Leyland - say in-contrast to assertions that chemistry can impact on-field play. That’s intelligent discussion. But to take a firm stance that it has no impact at all, ruling out all other opinion, when you’re arguing from a position of ignorance, makes no intelligent contribution to a discussion. Just because you aren’t well-versed on that particular area does not make it irrelevant. Hope that helps answer your question.
by esoteric on May 25, 2008 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This response still sucks
Because it basically boils down to “You aren’t in the locker room so you can’t judge this team.”
No one argues chemistry doesn’t matter. It’s just things like actual baseball talent matter more towards winning.
by nfreakct on May 25, 2008 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perfect.
”...actual baseball talent matters more towards winning…”
by josh_h on May 25, 2008 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nowhere in that paragraph does Baker downplay the importance of ability or claim that chemistry is super critical.
Everything he says in there is correct.
by Jeff on May 25, 2008 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like this part:
“But to take a firm stance that it has no impact at all, ruling out all other opinion, when you’re arguing from a position of ignorance, makes no intelligent contribution to a discussion. Just because you aren’t well-versed on that particular area does not make it irrelevant.”
by Graham on May 25, 2008 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't think of anyone
who would disagree
by Last Fan Of Jose Lopez on May 25, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But who argues its irrelevant?
I’m just tired of after every loss Baker running up and posting the latest quote from player X about how the team needs to “play hard” or how some players aren’t coming in early for BP. Maybe the chemistry on this team sucks and maybe players aren’t playing as well as they could because of that. But the Mariners aren’t 18-33 just because the chemistry is off in the clubhouse.
by nfreakct on May 25, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Librocrat claims that it's irrelevant in this very thread.
And you should read some of the comments he gets over there sometime.
by Jeff on May 25, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reading comments on Baker's blog can be hazardous to your health
by nfreakct on May 25, 2008 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I didn't.
Saying I don’t believe it exists is an opinion.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on May 25, 2008 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your words:
“Chemistry doesn’t exist.”
by Jeff on May 25, 2008 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Irrelevance implies it exists but doesn't matter.
I don’t believe it is a thing. I believe it is an retrospective attribution to winning or losing.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on May 25, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But to take a firm stance that it has no impact at all, ruling out all other opinion, when you’re arguing from a position of ignorance, makes no intelligent contribution to a discussion.
by Jeff on May 25, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you, and with Geoff.
This should be posted on the walls of every school. Drawing conclusions in the absence of evidence is insane.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
by Llewdor on May 25, 2008 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct
They are 18-33 becuase they suck more than their opponents 65% of the time. The result is bad chemistry.
I think “chemistry” is really just how the players feel about the team, about themselves, about eachother, etc., at a given time.
When teams are kicking ass, the players feel great. When teams are sucking, the players feel like crap.
by josh_h on May 25, 2008 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the problem I have with it
He’s right that it’s not irrelevant. But just because it has some relevance doesn’t mean it’s suddenly the most relevant thing to our team’s woes. Bad chemistry is quite far down the list of reasons this team is playing horrible baseball, yet that’s the only problem he seems to advocate fixing, or at least it’s what seems to be most important to him. It shouldn’t be.
by OlSalty on May 25, 2008 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're no longer arguing against his post
by Jeff on May 25, 2008 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know I'm not
I guess I should have phrased that differently, that’s the problem I have with him*. Like I said, he’s right that it’s not irrelevant so his post is entirely correct in that respect. But he, in plenty of his other posts, has treated team chemistry as way more relevant to our problems than it actually is. And this post is supposed to be defending his fixation with it. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this current statement but it doesn’t defend how overly concerned he is with chemistry just to say that it exists, there’s a huge gap between the absolutes of no importance <-> how much important he treats it as.
by OlSalty on May 25, 2008 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd disagree with the assertion that chemistry isn't irrelevant,
because we don’t know that. But nor do we know that it’s relevant. Our knowledge of the effect chemistry has on the team is negligible.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
by Llewdor on May 25, 2008 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't believe in chemistry.
I do believe in half-assing. I consider them different phenomenon.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on May 25, 2008 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are correct.
Which is why I’m obviously not as invested in this conversation as you are.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on May 25, 2008 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's fine
But he’s still blowing it’s importance wayyyy out of proportion
by OlSalty on May 25, 2008 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jose Vidro
My least favorite Mariner of All Time
1. Vidro
2. Ayala
3-27 . Everyone else on the ‘08 M’s roster.
Yep.
by josh_h on May 25, 2008 1:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You have just forgotten Ayala
Time lessens the pain.
by Edgar for Pres on May 25, 2008 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's too many people
unless you’re counting Vidro twice.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
by Llewdor on May 25, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have thus far resisted the urge to post it myself
by Jeff on May 25, 2008 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys dont even deserve it.
Allowing the Yankees to get over .500
by Sylar on May 25, 2008 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What can we do except completely agree with you?
by esoteric on May 25, 2008 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least take two from the Sox, please?
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on May 25, 2008 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just want to throw up
And I don’t even like the Mariners.
by Sylar on May 25, 2008 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, I think around 90% of the M's fans on LL would love to do anything to help the Rays at this point...
...since we ain’t got shit to look forward to this season except further shame and disgrace. But let’s be honest: what are the chances of us winning even ONE game against the Sox? Safeco is going to look like Boston West for the series, what with all the insufferable frontrider Seattle Sox fans in the area…god, it’s gonna be a charnel house.
by esoteric on May 25, 2008 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's okay.
We’ll just do it ourselves with a bit of help from the A’s today.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on May 25, 2008 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for understanding, man.
[claps you on shoulder with a manly sense of resignation]
by esoteric on May 25, 2008 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did Carlos Pena actually say that?
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on May 25, 2008 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on May 25, 2008 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Taking two of three from the Sox is pretty plausible actually.
Red Sox haven’t scored much recently and we have a slight pitching advantage in the series. I wouldn’t bet the farm on it though.
by ThundaPC on May 25, 2008 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, we can
there are dozens of ways in which the M’s could actually suck less. Now, if you really meant “could the M’s suck any MORE”, then the answer is no. No, they cannot, because they already suck to their maximum capacity.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on May 25, 2008 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vidro hasn't played 2B this year
And we haven’t actually had too much of an injury problem (besides JJ sucking).
by Edgar for Pres on May 25, 2008 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this comment may be construed as a challenge
and the Mariners will try to prove you wrong.
by NOLAmarinergirl on May 25, 2008 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In addition to having my 4 wisdom teeth pulled..
Seeing the M’s get absolutely manhandled against another last place team has really made this long weekend a great one so far.
by seamariners85 on May 25, 2008 2:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
P.S.
Thank god for Vicodin. (Couldn’t get ahold of any produced in Papua New Guinea though)
by seamariners85 on May 25, 2008 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the bright side
Washburn got 12 ground balls to only 4 Fly’s. Anyone have a guess on how the hell he did that?
by coasty141 on May 25, 2008 2:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
scratch that.. those are just his outs.
by coasty141 on May 25, 2008 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I was gonna say
He had a bunch of flyballs that didn’t get turned into outs
by OlSalty on May 25, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want to stab Bill Kreuger and Angie Mentik in the face
Why do I watch the post game show? There is nothing of value there.
by Smegmalicious on May 25, 2008 5:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
What a coincidence
Bill Kreuger does something to Mantank’s face all the time.
by Jordan of Boise on May 25, 2008 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see I'm not the only one who has heard the rumors.
BTW, I used to think she wore shoulder pads in her ridiculous jackets, but now I just think she’s a man.
by Smegmalicious on May 25, 2008 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ichiro on the flyball
Per Baker
“That flyball hung up like a Ray Guy punt. But Ichiro never could catch up to it. He didn’t even look at the ball when he began racing back, given all the ground he had to make up.As soon as they hit it, I thought it was going to be a tough ball to catch,’’ he said. “At the end of the play, I never got to where the ball was.’‘
Which prompted the natural question of whether he should have been playing a little deeper to begin with.
“If I had spiritual powers and knew the ball was going to be landing there, then I would have,’’ he said. “But I don’t have spiritual power.’’
Hmm…I thought he had Mental Signals….
by ThundaPC on May 25, 2008 5:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well hey
The guy doesn’t have spiritual powers, can’t blame him for that!
by marinator on May 25, 2008 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So um...Ichiro for Edwin Jackson?
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on May 25, 2008 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This reminds me of Jerry
I wonder whatever happened to that guy.
by Edgar for Pres on May 25, 2008 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Ichiro extension must have caused him to re-evaluate his life
by Alex B on May 25, 2008 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He disappears during the regular season every year.
I don’t think he actually watches any baseball. He just loves the offseason part of baseball.
Felix Hernandez may be The King, but Justin Upton is a GOD.
1998 Expansion Teams Reign Supreme!
by Goose on May 26, 2008 2:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ichiro doesn't have spiritual powers?
Well that’s disappointing.
Felix Hernandez may be The King, but Justin Upton is a GOD.
1998 Expansion Teams Reign Supreme!
by Goose on May 25, 2008 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So this game sucked.
In other news, I finally saw Indy IV. Could have done without the last five minutes of the movie, but overall it was enjoyable.
It wasn’t Raiders good, but it wasn’t Temple of Doom bad. It was fun, and that’s all I could ask for.
by BrianL on May 25, 2008 6:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
fail
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on May 25, 2008 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was tasteless action entertainment.
That’s all I wanted out of that movie.
by BrianL on May 26, 2008 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I didn't look at my watch.
That’s high praise for a movie.
by JI on May 26, 2008 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you all feel about Omar Vizquel?
Good player or just played a lot? I will always think of him as a mariner and always be surprised when I realize he only was here for five years. I remember being totally fine with the trade to Cleveland because I didn’t think Omar was gonna hit ever (Adam Everett style) but I was amazed to see him put it together and continue his career for probalby at least 10 years longer than I would have guessed it would last.
by Edgar for Pres on May 25, 2008 7:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Can you believe he's still an elite-level defensive shortstop?
by Jeff on May 25, 2008 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No,
but that’s only because I don’t believe individual fielding metrics.
by Matthew on May 25, 2008 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you believe he may or may not still be an elite-level defensive shortstop?
by Jeff on May 25, 2008 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do believe he either is or is not an elite-level defensive shortstop.
by Matthew on May 25, 2008 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not only do I believe this
I 100 % believe this.
by seattlebruin on May 26, 2008 12:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When I think of Omar, I always think of him in an Indians uniform.
Felix Hernandez may be The King, but Justin Upton is a GOD.
1998 Expansion Teams Reign Supreme!
by Goose on May 26, 2008 2:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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