18-33
by Jeff Sullivan on May 25, 2008 1:22 PM PDT
in Seattle Mariners News, Awful
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Biggest Contribution: Jarrod Washburn, +13.7%
Biggest Suckfest: JJ Putz, -56.0%
Most Important AB: Ichiro homer, +11.2%
Most Important Pitch: Molina double, -27.5%
Total Contribution by Pitcher(s): -55.1%
Total Contribution by Hitters: -10.5%
Total Contribution by Opposition: +15.6%
(What is this chart?)
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DON'T LOOK INTO THE EYES OF THE GIFT HORSE IT WILL TURN YOU TO STONE
By which I mean TURN YOU INTO RAUL IBANEZ.
Could also apply to Ichi or Wlad..
I mean shouldn’t SOMEONE take initiative and go for that popup. Its hard to be down on Ichiro cause of his awesomeness but its hard to be awesome and 18-33 at the same time.
by seamariners85 on May 25, 2008 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude.. I left when it was 5-2 to go to the grocery store
I come back just in time to see Raul swinging at a 3rd strike above his head to end the game. All I can say is… huh?
by seattlesundevil on May 25, 2008 1:33 PM PDT reply actions
Don't feel too bad...
At least you missed Vidro watch strike 3, only to get a second chance to watch strike 3, which of course he didnt pass up..
by seamariners85 on May 25, 2008 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Thats what I was just thinking..
I know it’s not Mac’s fault – but SOMETHING has to be changed and that is the easiest thing to make a switch on.. Yea it’s just change for the sake of change, but when you are 18-33 and getting swept on an entire road trip – who says that’s wrong?
by seattlesundevil on May 25, 2008 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
God woke me up early just in time to see the M's lose.
That joke is getting old. Wasn’t funny when he did it when the M’s had a 2-0 lead in the 9th vs. Baltimore either…
Chemistry...
doesn’t exist. But I will give credit to one thing – they do look like they’re not trying at all. It would be nice if there was SOME way to yell at them to get them to try harder. Baker’s “late bus” thing actually is starting to get to me – no one on this lousy team takes extra batting practice when they are struggling? Why the hell not?! You all suck!
...and now I'm here
Batting practice doesn't matter
and of course it looks like they aren’t trying. They’re losing. Losing teams look worse than winning teams.
by Jeff Sullivan on May 25, 2008 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, obviously.
But I’m tired of watching Betancourt watch a ball roll by him rather than run for it and miss. Things of that nature. I don’t expect them to win. I expect them to look as though they are making millions a year for playing a game.
...and now I'm here
My similar quibble borne of frustration
I hate the fact that professional sportsmen can be so ridiculously out of shape and still qualify for multi-year contracts.
If I showed up at my doctor’s surgery looking like Silva then he would give me a stern warning about the dangers of obesity.
This is why watching the Rays is fun.
They seem to like playing baseball.
How about Terry Tate, Office Linebacker
Have him come out and tackle the players when they make a bad play/suck at the plate, etc.
Baker actually reduced the "chemistry" argument to as intelligent a summary as possible for one who defends it:
You’ve seen examples presented to you of clubhouse troubles with the Mariners. Heard comments from George Sherrill, Bill Bavasi and now Carlos Silva, suggesting the Mariners clubhouse is not the greatest place to be. You can ask questions about how this relates to on-field play. You can make comparisons to what others - like Jim Leyland - say in-contrast to assertions that chemistry can impact on-field play. That’s intelligent discussion. But to take a firm stance that it has no impact at all, ruling out all other opinion, when you’re arguing from a position of ignorance, makes no intelligent contribution to a discussion. Just because you aren’t well-versed on that particular area does not make it irrelevant. Hope that helps answer your question.
This response still sucks
Because it basically boils down to “You aren’t in the locker room so you can’t judge this team.”
No one argues chemistry doesn’t matter. It’s just things like actual baseball talent matter more towards winning.
Nowhere in that paragraph does Baker downplay the importance of ability or claim that chemistry is super critical.
Everything he says in there is correct.
by Jeff Sullivan on May 25, 2008 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I like this part:
“But to take a firm stance that it has no impact at all, ruling out all other opinion, when you’re arguing from a position of ignorance, makes no intelligent contribution to a discussion. Just because you aren’t well-versed on that particular area does not make it irrelevant.”
by Graham MacAree on May 25, 2008 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
But who argues its irrelevant?
I’m just tired of after every loss Baker running up and posting the latest quote from player X about how the team needs to “play hard” or how some players aren’t coming in early for BP. Maybe the chemistry on this team sucks and maybe players aren’t playing as well as they could because of that. But the Mariners aren’t 18-33 just because the chemistry is off in the clubhouse.
Librocrat claims that it's irrelevant in this very thread.
And you should read some of the comments he gets over there sometime.
by Jeff Sullivan on May 25, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
No I didn't.
Saying I don’t believe it exists is an opinion.
...and now I'm here
Your words:
“Chemistry doesn’t exist.”
by Jeff Sullivan on May 25, 2008 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Irrelevance implies it exists but doesn't matter.
I don’t believe it is a thing. I believe it is an retrospective attribution to winning or losing.
...and now I'm here
But to take a firm stance that it has no impact at all, ruling out all other opinion, when you’re arguing from a position of ignorance, makes no intelligent contribution to a discussion.
by Jeff Sullivan on May 25, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with you, and with Geoff.
This should be posted on the walls of every school. Drawing conclusions in the absence of evidence is insane.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Correct
They are 18-33 becuase they suck more than their opponents 65% of the time. The result is bad chemistry.
I think “chemistry” is really just how the players feel about the team, about themselves, about eachother, etc., at a given time.
When teams are kicking ass, the players feel great. When teams are sucking, the players feel like crap.
That's the problem I have with it
He’s right that it’s not irrelevant. But just because it has some relevance doesn’t mean it’s suddenly the most relevant thing to our team’s woes. Bad chemistry is quite far down the list of reasons this team is playing horrible baseball, yet that’s the only problem he seems to advocate fixing, or at least it’s what seems to be most important to him. It shouldn’t be.
You're no longer arguing against his post
by Jeff Sullivan on May 25, 2008 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I know I'm not
I guess I should have phrased that differently, that’s the problem I have with him*. Like I said, he’s right that it’s not irrelevant so his post is entirely correct in that respect. But he, in plenty of his other posts, has treated team chemistry as way more relevant to our problems than it actually is. And this post is supposed to be defending his fixation with it. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this current statement but it doesn’t defend how overly concerned he is with chemistry just to say that it exists, there’s a huge gap between the absolutes of no importance <-> how much important he treats it as.
I'd disagree with the assertion that chemistry isn't irrelevant,
because we don’t know that. But nor do we know that it’s relevant. Our knowledge of the effect chemistry has on the team is negligible.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
I don't believe in chemistry.
I do believe in half-assing. I consider them different phenomenon.
...and now I'm here
You are correct.
Which is why I’m obviously not as invested in this conversation as you are.
...and now I'm here
That's fine
But he’s still blowing it’s importance wayyyy out of proportion
Jose Vidro
My least favorite Mariner of All Time
1. Vidro
2. Ayala
3-27 . Everyone else on the ‘08 M’s roster.
Yep.
You have just forgotten Ayala
Time lessens the pain.
by Edgar for Pres on May 25, 2008 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
That's too many people
unless you’re counting Vidro twice.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
I have thus far resisted the urge to post it myself
by Jeff Sullivan on May 25, 2008 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
At least take two from the Sox, please?
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on May 25, 2008 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Seriously, I think around 90% of the M's fans on LL would love to do anything to help the Rays at this point...
...since we ain’t got shit to look forward to this season except further shame and disgrace. But let’s be honest: what are the chances of us winning even ONE game against the Sox? Safeco is going to look like Boston West for the series, what with all the insufferable frontrider Seattle Sox fans in the area…god, it’s gonna be a charnel house.
It's okay.
We’ll just do it ourselves with a bit of help from the A’s today.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on May 25, 2008 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on May 25, 2008 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Taking two of three from the Sox is pretty plausible actually.
Red Sox haven’t scored much recently and we have a slight pitching advantage in the series. I wouldn’t bet the farm on it though.
Yes, we can
there are dozens of ways in which the M’s could actually suck less. Now, if you really meant “could the M’s suck any MORE”, then the answer is no. No, they cannot, because they already suck to their maximum capacity.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
Vidro hasn't played 2B this year
And we haven’t actually had too much of an injury problem (besides JJ sucking).
by Edgar for Pres on May 25, 2008 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I think this comment may be construed as a challenge
and the Mariners will try to prove you wrong.
by Kirsten Schlewitz on May 25, 2008 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
In addition to having my 4 wisdom teeth pulled..
Seeing the M’s get absolutely manhandled against another last place team has really made this long weekend a great one so far.
P.S.
Thank god for Vicodin. (Couldn’t get ahold of any produced in Papua New Guinea though)
by seamariners85 on May 25, 2008 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
On the bright side
Washburn got 12 ground balls to only 4 Fly’s. Anyone have a guess on how the hell he did that?
Yeah I was gonna say
He had a bunch of flyballs that didn’t get turned into outs
I want to stab Bill Kreuger and Angie Mentik in the face
Why do I watch the post game show? There is nothing of value there.
What a coincidence
Bill Kreuger does something to Mantank’s face all the time.
by Jordan of Boise on May 25, 2008 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I see I'm not the only one who has heard the rumors.
BTW, I used to think she wore shoulder pads in her ridiculous jackets, but now I just think she’s a man.
by Smegmalicious on May 25, 2008 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Ichiro on the flyball
Per Baker
“That flyball hung up like a Ray Guy punt. But Ichiro never could catch up to it. He didn’t even look at the ball when he began racing back, given all the ground he had to make up.As soon as they hit it, I thought it was going to be a tough ball to catch,’’ he said. “At the end of the play, I never got to where the ball was.’‘
Which prompted the natural question of whether he should have been playing a little deeper to begin with.
“If I had spiritual powers and knew the ball was going to be landing there, then I would have,’’ he said. “But I don’t have spiritual power.’’
Hmm…I thought he had Mental Signals….
So um...Ichiro for Edwin Jackson?
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on May 25, 2008 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions
This reminds me of Jerry
I wonder whatever happened to that guy.
by Edgar for Pres on May 25, 2008 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions
He disappears during the regular season every year.
I don’t think he actually watches any baseball. He just loves the offseason part of baseball.
Felix Hernandez may be The King, but Justin Upton is a GOD.
1998 Expansion Teams Reign Supreme!
Ichiro doesn't have spiritual powers?
Well that’s disappointing.
Felix Hernandez may be The King, but Justin Upton is a GOD.
1998 Expansion Teams Reign Supreme!
So this game sucked.
In other news, I finally saw Indy IV. Could have done without the last five minutes of the movie, but overall it was enjoyable.
It wasn’t Raiders good, but it wasn’t Temple of Doom bad. It was fun, and that’s all I could ask for.
It was tasteless action entertainment.
That’s all I wanted out of that movie.
Yeah, I didn't look at my watch.
That’s high praise for a movie.
by JI on May 26, 2008 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions
How do you all feel about Omar Vizquel?
Good player or just played a lot? I will always think of him as a mariner and always be surprised when I realize he only was here for five years. I remember being totally fine with the trade to Cleveland because I didn’t think Omar was gonna hit ever (Adam Everett style) but I was amazed to see him put it together and continue his career for probalby at least 10 years longer than I would have guessed it would last.
Can you believe he's still an elite-level defensive shortstop?
by Jeff Sullivan on May 25, 2008 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions
No,
but that’s only because I don’t believe individual fielding metrics.
Can you believe he may or may not still be an elite-level defensive shortstop?
by Jeff Sullivan on May 25, 2008 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions
When I think of Omar, I always think of him in an Indians uniform.
Felix Hernandez may be The King, but Justin Upton is a GOD.
1998 Expansion Teams Reign Supreme!
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