DER and You
DER is the ratio of balls in play that are turned into an out. Think of it as the inverse of BABIP. Coming into play today, the Mariners defensive efficiency ratio stood at an awe-inspring .678 meaning that Mariner defenders turn 67.8% of balls in play (e.g. HRs excluded) into outs. That is dead last in the American League and only the lowly Pirates have more shame than us in the National League.
Now, there's a pitching aspect to DER as well. Line drives only end up as outs roughly 30% of the time compared to groundballs, bunts and flyballs which all hover around 80% outs. Infield flys are a touch over 90%. Of course, this all varies depending on whose definitions of line drive vs flyball, flyball vs popup, etc that you use, but they're good general guides. So a pitching staff that yields more line drives than usual is going to see a lower DER that's not the fault of the defenders. This was part of the hope for the 2008 Mariners that removing the suck fests of Weaver and Ramirez would make our defense look slightly better.
Well, it hasn't. The 2008 staff is allowing a dead-on league average 19% line drives. They are allowing slightly more flyballs than usual and, since they have an average IF/FB ratio, they are getting more infield flies than average. So, if anything, the pitching staff is gifting the defense easier balls in play than the average American League team. You can see this quantitatively on the THT Team page in the Plus/Minus under Team Fielding Stats. You see both a pitching and a fielding number. That pitching number is exactly what we just described, the number of plays the defense should make over an average squad due to the pitcher's batted ball profile. So, we possess the league's worst defense at turning balls in plays into outs even with some extra help from our pitchers.
The average team faces about 27 balls in play per game. The difference between the Mariners defense and an average AL defense so far is a little over half an out per game, meaning the Ms defense allows a bit over one runner to reach base every two games that an average defense does not. The difference between the Mariners league-worst defense and the Blue Jays league-best defense is over 1.25 batters every single game. Every. Single. Game. In relative terms, Mariner pitchers have to record 28.27 outs every game compared to Toronto's 27.
Defense is not a strength of ours.
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That corresponds with rougly a 0.25 increase in ERA.
Fun.
by Graham MacAree on May 23, 2008 12:21 PM PDT reply actions
Another way to put it is that Toronto's defense has already been 45-50 runs better than ours
by Jeff Sullivan on May 23, 2008 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
So what you're saying is that if we had Toronto's defense
we wouldn’t necessarily be dead right now – more like 22-26 or 23-25?
by seattlebruin on May 23, 2008 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
We make up for racial diversity with a lineup of mostly DHs
by Graham MacAree on May 23, 2008 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
We have excellent diversity in DHs
by eponymous_coward on May 23, 2008 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Not really
they range from suck to really suck. Not too much diversity there.
by seattlebruin on May 23, 2008 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Toronto has an advantage in on-field brawls.
They just attack all the darkies.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
The additional advantage of that is
it would get Shannon Stewart and his 53% ground ball rate out of the lineup.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
I've been wondering this
Why do we use DER instead of BABIP? BABIP seems to be a more intuitive number.
by Edgar for Pres on May 23, 2008 12:22 PM PDT reply actions
You'd rather say we allowed a .322 BABIP instead of having a .678 DER?
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
DER is basically 1-BABIP. It's just an out average on balls in play.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on May 23, 2008 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I think i was more asking for historically why do people making stats often have many names
for basically the same stat. Its not really confusing once you know what it is but I’m sure for somebody seeing it all for the first time it probably is annoying.
by Edgar for Pres on May 23, 2008 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
because BABIP is more thought of as a pitcher's stat
and we’re not trying measure the pitchers. That’s the reasoning anyways.
Just looking at some more THT #s
It seems like Sexson, Beltre, Betancourt, and Ibanez are below league average in RZR, that can’t be good.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
I don't blame you.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on May 23, 2008 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Toronto's defense is going to win Shaun Marcum a Cy Young award.
That’s quite a feat.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
But their offense is going to lose it for him
because Cy Young voters love the W-L record.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
That's why Halladay's 280 IP and 18 CG won't win it for him.
So far Marcum’s getting a .824 DER behind him. They don’t need to score much when he’s only allowing 1 run.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
They need to score 2
and they have Brad Wilkerson leading off. Who knows, maybe they can ground into two bases loaded no out double plays every game.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
Raul Ibanez hurts this team by pretending to be the DH while playing left field
by seattlebruin on May 23, 2008 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
John McLaren hurts the team by being satisfied with that.
It’s not Raul’s fault.
I am kinda bored with that, actually
Ironically, I think I’ve blamed everyone associated with this organization for something except maybe Kenji.
by seattlebruin on May 23, 2008 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Kenji hurts the team
by throwing the bus wheels out of alignment after Jarrod threw him under the bus.
by eponymous_coward on May 23, 2008 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes he does
which is why I find it strange that I haven’t blamed him for anything yet.
by seattlebruin on May 23, 2008 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Why would you blame Lopez for anything?
by Last Fan Of Jose Lopez on May 23, 2008 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I blame Lopez for causing me to be tired at work
because I lose sleep thinking of ways we can promote his ‘08 All-Star campaign
by seattlebruin on May 23, 2008 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Whoa crazy
you realize that Jarrod threw that fastball 89 mph? Is that the fastest pitch he’s thrown this season?
by seattlebruin on May 23, 2008 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
It's like Ken Griffey Jr. Baseball on 64
That was his Super Suck Pitch, hence the increased velocity.
by JoeyJoJoJuniorShabadoo on May 23, 2008 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought the Safeco gun
was ~average compared to the other parks? I remembered NYY was pretty low (Bedard sat 88-89), but I thought Safeco was pretty decent?
by seattlebruin on May 23, 2008 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope, not on 'roids
The side effects would kill his action with the 16 year olds.
by eponymous_coward on May 23, 2008 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
The answer to this is obvious
We need a Gold Glove outfielder like Ken Griffey Jr.
by eponymous_coward on May 23, 2008 12:43 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
So f'ng rec'd...
‘Cause you know the M’s would be thinking that…
Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum
by PositivePaul on May 23, 2008 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Just to be straight....
The +8 under “Pit” is means that our pitchers have essentially handed the defense 8 plays this season or in other words, if this team had an average defense, they would be +8 in plays made.
But the REALITY is that the M’s are -27?
Doesn’t that REALLY mean that the M’s are -35 then?
I believe the -27 accounts for the +8
but I could be wrong.
by Jeff Sullivan on May 23, 2008 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
you are right on the pitchers
the pitchers are +8
the fielders are -27
overall they are -19

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