5/22: Open Game Thread, Part 2
by Jeff Sullivan on May 22, 2008 11:31 AM PDT
in Seattle Mariners Game Threads
Email
PrintHoracio Ramirez may have left, but his spirit lives on.
Matthew's Note: DICKEY! If this team is going to fail, and boy will it, at least fail in an entertaining manner.
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I thought Turbo ate him in spring training.
by eponymous_coward on May 22, 2008 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Ate him WHOLE.
So he’s still there, inside Vidro, feeding off hot dog remnants.
...and now I'm here
HoRam might not be as bad as Washburn was yesterday.
At least he was less of a prick.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
what are you talking about?
HoRam was king of never accepting blame for sucking.
That's a long-ass single.
Is Gameday right on that placement?
Ichiro hesitated, and Ordonez caught it off the bounce and threw it in quickly.
...and now I'm here
Fucking Pathetic....
I don’t give a shit how hard Ichiro hit that ball there is no reason that he’s not standing on 2B. This guys are mailing it in.
I suck at photoshop.
Can someone make a “Lisa Cuddy Throwing in the Towel” shop?
Ichiro does this shit every once in a while
He’s really cautious to a fault some times
Every game Felix pitches.
...and now I'm here
nearly even split on balls v strikes
and we cannot score off him.
HoRam still sucks.
I’d rather have a can of delicious Sprite.
by eponymous_coward on May 22, 2008 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I think....
the M’s should get Brian Bannister and make him a player/GM.
Wouldn't that be great though?
He answers his cell phone in between pitches, hangs up, and walks over to Jose Lopez and tells him that he’s been traded to the Brewers.
Manager pulls him from the game and is subsequently fired.
Traded for a delicious can of Sprite.
And Lake Geneva.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Over Under on runs scored this inning: .5
(Just to make Jeff mad)
At least we don't have Zito's contract.
Over/under on bannings this inning: 2
by eponymous_coward on May 22, 2008 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Red
At least we don't have Zito's contract.
The Mariners suck at Calvinball too
At least we don't have Zito's contract.
Are they Strasburg prodcutive outs?
by eponymous_coward on May 22, 2008 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Do you get Strasburg if you lose enough games?
by eponymous_coward on May 22, 2008 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
bases loaded, 0 outs
Raul’s BIP is labeled “In play, no out”
Knew something had to be wrong. Turns out it was everything.
It was in play.
So… Um… Gameday had that going for them.
...and now I'm here
So bad....
Bases loaded and 0 outs….
The inning is over like 2 minutes later.
Yes. Then we'd still be playing the bottom of the second.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Where IS Ron Wright when you need him, anyway?
by eponymous_coward on May 22, 2008 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
On the same...
house painting crew as Bucky.
I miss Bucky, let's get him back, as least as a mascot or something
Or he can have Mclaren’s job, whatever, same thing to me
http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com
Were we outscored by more?
and are we accounting for the opponet’s true talent lever, or current W-L record?
consider the pitching matchups
and the lineups involved.
I know your saying no
but my heart is saying yes
Coach Owens = No Fun Zone
by Scruffy Lefty on May 22, 2008 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
.....
Coach Owens = No Fun Zone
by Scruffy Lefty on May 22, 2008 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ha ha, his balls are his feet.
...and now I'm here
Fun fact!
2004 Mariners after 48 games: 18-30
by eponymous_coward on May 22, 2008 11:49 AM PDT reply actions
Fun fact: We lost the Upton race that year :(
by Graham MacAree on May 22, 2008 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Disregard....
I read that as 1994…..
2004 team stunk.
Let's see...
We had Ichiro and… we had Ichiro.
Quick, name good players on the '04 roster!
Ichiro!
...
uh…
...
by Graham MacAree on May 22, 2008 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Boone, Moyer
shit, cock, balls (otherwise known as Pineiro, Spiezio, Aurilia)
http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com
Boone was pretty much done by 2004
Garcia wasn’t, quite, but yeah.
by eponymous_coward on May 22, 2008 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
not Raul's fault
his defense was likely passable in ‘04.
Edgar will always be good in my book.
I like midgets more than I should.
The 2004 team had Ichiro violating the laws of time and space.
Not much beyond that.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
For Llewdor
since i missed the earlier question (damn you, work!):
The Mariners are 20th in triples allowed, with 7.
Top three:
Rockies 17
Dodgers 13
Jays 12
the other angels fan
We've had the leadoff guy on base how many innings now?
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Are you kidding?
One hit a week gives vets all the PT they need. If a guy is under 27 he has to hit .350 to get playing time around here. Unless he’s a shitty defensive player then he gets all the time he needs.
Hey look at that.
We have a left fielder who can get basehits and can play defense.
Sit the fuck down on the bench, son. You’re not Mariner material.
No runs, one hit, two left.
Typical.
I like midgets more than I should.
One trade that gets a lot of shit, but probably shouldn't
(Tino + Nelson + Mecir) in exchange for--> (Sterling Hitchcock + Russ Davis).
Well, actually, yes it should.
An all-star 1B plus a good reliever for a no-stuff LH and a crappy fielding 3B is pretty bad, even if it is salary-driven. Tino’s not HOF material, but he’s not THAT far out of it. He’s in the Moyer/Boone class of being a fairly close miss.
by eponymous_coward on May 22, 2008 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Two years of above average play?
Me thinks not.
...and now I'm here
Two years of spactaculatr play
two more of very good play
several years of decent play
No, he’s not a HOFer, but he has a much better case. Defense matters.
No.
I grant you defense matters, but we have a player who had an OPS+ over 100 on 13 separate occasions, 340 home runs, vs a 2nd baseman with only 5 years of an OPS+ over 100, 252 home runs and 5 years of sub 90 OPS+ during his peak years.
Tino is far more HOF worthy than Bret Boone, though neither are close. Bret Boone’s defense doesn’t make up for overall never being that good other than 2 of his years in Seattle.
...and now I'm here
Tino was basically a league average firstbaseman
Bret Boone was arguably the best player in the AL on one season, and the best secondbaseman in baseball two others.
His career destroys Tino’s.
I completely disagree with this premise.
Best during two seasons? Who cares? If you’re awful every other year, you really didn’t accomplish much.
Should Francisco Liriano be in the hall of fame because he also won Cy Young his rookie year, even if he spends every other day of his career in the minors? Of course not.
Tino has great numbers every year he played. Boone had good numbers thrice. Tino wins.
...and now I'm here
Tino has great numbers every year he played
The hell? No he didn’t.
. Boone had good numbers thrice.
Wrong wrong wrong.
Boone had several good years in the 90s.
find them:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/boonebr01.shtml
...and now I'm here
1994...
MAYBE 1998, debatable.
...and now I'm here
As I said,
his defense may have been quite good, but it doesn’t make up for not being a good hitter. Brandon Inge is not getting into the hall of fame any time soon. And I don’t know how to look up Tino’s defense at first, but wasn’t bad enough to take away his offensive accomplishments.
...and now I'm here
And Boone was decidedly below average in the majority of his seasons.
Tino still wins.
...and now I'm here
What?
Boone was a really really good defensive 2B
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 22, 2008 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
we're talking offensive, dude.
...and now I'm here
"except that tino wasn't an outstanding offensive player"
“And boone was decidedly below average”
These comments relate to each other by the fact that they are nested.
...and now I'm here
But to factor in who is a better player you have to factor in defense.
A 95 OPS+ with great 2B defense is worth as much as 120 OPS+ With average defense at 1B. So they probably broke even a lot as far as actual value. Though as an offensive player, save for his late Seattle seasons and one year in Cincy, I would agree that Tino is the better offensive player.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 22, 2008 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Me too, I'm saying your point about defense was irrelevant to my comment.
Not that it is untrue.
...and now I'm here
Well yeah, Tino was a better hitter
But Boone’s defense annihilates that. It’s not like he was Mark McGwire. Compare Tino to his peers year to year and I’d bet you find that he ranked in the top 6 or 7 1B twice in his entire career. Compare Boone to his peers at 2B and I bet he’d have several more to 6-7 finishes.
Plus, Tino was never at any point the best defensive or offensive player at his position. Boone was at least three times, and he played a harder position.
by JI on May 22, 2008 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
...and except for the obvious lows of 1996-97
for was a very good hitter for a secondbaseman.
I’d also ague that Orlando Hudson is a much better player than Tino Martinez ever was.
So you'd say that if Orlando hundson retired today, he'd be more HOF worthy than Tino?
Because if you think that, you’re high.
...and now I'm here
This subthread is almost as good as
Graham and Corco’s wilderness one.
by JoeyJoJoJuniorShabadoo on May 22, 2008 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I think that.
The O-Dog’s defense broke PMR, if you’ll recall. The dude’s practically an MVP candidate on his glove alone.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Tino was really really good though.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 22, 2008 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Tino has far better numbers than Casey over a sustained period of time.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/martiti02.shtml
...and now I'm here
You have to see the irony in criticizing Boone for only having two good years
when Tino really only had two really good years to his credit.
Of course.
And 14 other above average years, with significantly better raw numbers over a sustained period of itme.
Boone: 2 good years, several awful years, some meh years and 2 okay years. No good raw numbers, no good totals. Only other positive side was his defense.
...and now I'm here
They're both very good players.
Boone’s best years are probably enough to give him a slight edge, though Tino was way more consistent. I’d take them both.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 22, 2008 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Tino was a worse hitter for his postion that Boone was.
and he wasn’t exactly Keith Hernandez with the glove.
Believe me Boone is a far superior player.
I don't agree that two good years make a great player.
Without any sustained offensive success. But since we clearly disagree on that basic premise this argument is somewhat moot.
...and now I'm here
HE HAD WAY MORE THAN TWO GOOD YEARS
and even if you only count the two really good ones… well Tino really only had two really good years too. The rest of the time he was anywhere from inoffensive to mediocre.
by JI on May 22, 2008 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I could've sworn OPS+ was position adjusted too.
But maybe it is just park adjusted.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 22, 2008 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Career 112 OPS+
OPS+ is park adjusted…pretty much good for .270/.350/.460 with average-ish defense every year. Tino was better for longer and his best was better than Casey’s best.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 22, 2008 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Or his better was better than Casey's better >_>
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 22, 2008 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Casey's best two years as basicall as good as Tino's two best.
yeah, Tino is the better player, but Casey is comparable.
I'd put him up against guys like Kelly
“New York ballplayers who were good but not HOF worthy”
by eponymous_coward on May 22, 2008 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I can't leieve Bernie williams doesn't get HOF talk
since A) he’s probably worthy, and B) he was an irreplaceable part of the late 90s Yankee juggernaut.
I'd pump him for it. Good offense and D.
He might be a better player than Jeter, and Jeter, overrated as he is, is pretty good.
by eponymous_coward on May 22, 2008 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Tino was replaced with cheap players that matched his production
and Davis’ defense wasn’t a problem until years later.
Davis was seen as a league average thirdbaseman, Hitchcock was a cheap ~ league average starter. Plus there’s no way Tino even resembles a HOF player.
Uh, what?
Russ Davis, first year in bigs: .939 fielding percentage. His career average was well below league average. And I can tell you he wasn’t making errors on balls nobody could have gotten to, either.
by eponymous_coward on May 22, 2008 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Man, am I glad this team worked on its situational hitting
God knows that that skill would have been wasted if they hadn’t.
...and now I'm here
I hope he does it all in one game
So that it is over so quickly they don’t have time to hype it up more.
...and now I'm here
I think there's a fault with my MLB.tv player
As I’m able to watch live games other than Derek Jeter’s.
It's crap isn't it?
You basically have to use Gameday to navigate the player.
you open the game as normal
as soon as it loads up you right click, choose properties, and copy the address. You then paste it into WMP (file—-> open URL). You must do it very quickly because the address is only valid for x number of seconds. I do this because I like to doc the gmae on top.
Or if you just want to watch in the flash window, all you need to do is click on the links and the player should load automatically.
you know what's awesome about mlbtv?
you can go back and watch Jon Lester’s no hitter as many times as you want!!!
FREE JEREMY REED!!
Jesus Christ Mac
why are you burning through the bullpen!? You have a fucking knuckleball pitcher!
What're you new?
Mac’s bullpen strategy is to do the opposite of what is reasonable.
http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com
He needs more guys to succeed so Bill can DFA them.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Plus Mac likes having excuses
“the bullpen was tired” everyone is just tired…
etc.
http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com
When does Jeff start starting the WPA charts at zero?
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Talking about the dirt path between home and the mound...
said something to the effect of the M’s having the same path due to the catcher wearing out the path to go to the mound to tell the pitcher to throw strikes.
Sims is going to get fired.
We’re going to miss him.
Side note:
Carlos Triunfel is back from his suspension, and went 3-4 last night.
I like midgets more than I should.
Let's try to keep this game thread on topic please.
...
...
...
I kid, I kid.
...and now I'm here
My deepest apologies.
I like midgets more than I should.
It's never steroids
cue jpeg, please, someone
by seattlebruin on May 22, 2008 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
No, steriods..
They are walmart brand.. cheaper.
by seattlesundevil on May 22, 2008 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
So... Batista wanted to have a starting rotation where
All 5 pitchers pitched 200 innings huh?
What an idiot…
http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com
They're only going 2 innings at a time.
Can’t we just have two starters who pitch on alternate days?
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
whats the chance...
That we return from this road trip with a new manager and/or GM?
Here we go Bedard, Here we go...(clap, clap)
And then bench coach him 40% of the time.
...and now I'm here
GM no
if the team gets swept in New York there could be some changes in the coaching staff.
FREE JEREMY REED!!
I don't even care....
What’s the point when all Howie and the crew will do is interview a bunch of retread “good baseball men” to replace Bavasi with? Until those jokers give up power to new thinkers the franchise is screwed.
I figure both Howie and Chuck will retire in 15 years
At which point Ms ownership decides to sell an Paul Allen purchases the team. Smart GM inserted, rebuilding begins. 5-6 years after that we’ll have a competitive ballclub.
So, in 20 or 21 years we can look forward to a good team.
BECAUSE UNLIKE YOU I LOVE THIS TEAM!
U TAKE UR STATS AND GO BACK TO YOUR MOM’S BASEMENT U FA-
Uh.. maggot.
Hey McLaren, here's an idea for turning this team around
Tender your resignation
How I feel about this series^H^H^H^H^H^Hseason
by eponymous_coward on May 22, 2008 12:09 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Will Batista be removed from the rotation before or after the break?
by JoeyJoJoJuniorShabadoo on May 22, 2008 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
After.
We call up Feierabend to replace Washburn after Washburn shoots himself in despair when all of the concession girls are issued tasers.
So then we need Batista to eat innings because we already DFA’d Baek.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Hoo boy.
Mac isn’t going to make the trip back to Seattle now.
HAHAHAHAHA
The way Simms called that play was hilarious. He sounded so completely unsurprised
Here's a question
Would you rather us lose every game 10-3 from here on out, or every game 6-5 from here on out?
http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com
6-5 if Wlad and Beltre homer.
10-3 if they go hitless.
...and now I'm here
How would we score 3 runs if we go hitless
When we can’t even score 3 runs on 8 hits 3 bbs and 1 hbp?
http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com
So I just turned the game on.
Did I miss anything other than embarrassment?
The nice spacemen behind the comet with rescue us.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
You missed the second time ever
that an LL game thread part 1 has linked to the new thread
by seattlebruin on May 22, 2008 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I miss good defense :-(
Jealousy reigns
by seattlesundevil on May 22, 2008 12:17 PM PDT reply actions
I want a Raul FB to secure his spot.
...and now I'm here
I want a Raul ground out.
So he can be buried in left field after his passing.
...and now I'm here
This is a ballpark promotion I can support.
Raul deserves to be buried out in LF.
It’ll be out version of monument park.
This game is so bad I wish Hawk Harrelson were calling it.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
is it wrong
that I wish all our runs we’re scored as a result of something Ichiro, Beltre, Wlad and I guess Lopez did?
The poster formerly known as Matt.
I'd also remove Ichiro.
I really don’t care about how well he does. I like him, and I like him on the team, but I don’t personally invest any emotion into his success.
...and now I'm here
I'd keep Ichiro in the list
because his success smites baseball purists, casual fans, and “analysts.”
Him succeeding makes them miserable. That makes me happy.
Well.. okay.
At least I personally am not invested in it, even if the outcome is sweet.
...and now I'm here
Hay, I have an idea!
We’re down by 7 runs. LET’S USE 8 PITCHERS!!
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Because blowing out your bullpen
before a Yankees series is an awesome idea.
by eponymous_coward on May 22, 2008 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
It's starting to have that air of Hargrove-itis
With using the bullpen when you shouldn’t in order to save your job.. Funny how Grover did while up a run or two and Mac does it down by 6-10 runs. What does that say?
by seattlesundevil on May 22, 2008 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
He left after an 8 game winning streak and under his own accord.
So, I don’t know if we know what the pink slip aura feels like with the M’s.
...and now I'm here
But it only gets worse: Jim Riggleman will be the interim manager
by JoeyJoJoJuniorShabadoo on May 22, 2008 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd say that's a good thing.
Riggleman will do such a terrible job he won’t be brought back for next season.