5/2: Open Game Thread
Seattle Mariners at New York Yankees, May 2, 2008 4:05 PM PDT
Pettitte can't miss any bats. Mussina's finished. Hughes is hurt and bad. Kennedy is healthy and bad. Chamberlain hasn't started a Major League game in his life. The rest of the depth is in the persons of Kei Igawa, Darrell Rasner, Jeff Karstens, and a bevy of other people who aren't good.
The Yankees are vulnerable.* More vulnerable than they've been in nearly 15 years. Being without Jorge Posada certainly isn't helping matters. The team is still good, but it doesn't look great, and it doesn't look like it has the potential to be great, not with a pitching staff that underwhelming. There was a time to be afraid of these guys, but with our 1-2-3 going up against a bad rotation and a lineup that's missing both Posada and the best player in baseball, we have the upper hand, and we need to take advantage. We can't lose this series and say "oh, it's New York, that's to be expected." It's not to be expected. Losing this series would be inexcusable. If you're heavily invested in winning now, and you can't beat the Yankees when they're at their weakest and you're near full strength, then something's gone horribly wrong.
There's no such thing as a must-win series in May, but if there were, this would be one of them. No more excuses. The winning needs to start now, because we're already in a big enough hole, and we can't really afford for it to get any bigger. Beat the Yankees. Beat the Yankees and start the season you were supposed to start a month ago.
LET'S GO MARINERS!!
* According to BP's adjusted standings, the Rays have been the best team in the American League, and that's with zero innings from Scott Kazmir. Perhaps more impressive is that they've also had the best team defense in the AL after being historically awful just last season. To think that all this time even I may have been underrating them.
The Angels, by the way, have dramatically overachieved.
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STOP TALKING ABOUT THE RAYS THIS IS A MARINERS BLOG
by Graham MacAree on May 2, 2008 2:32 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I find it hilarious that Jeff was flamed for talking about the Rays
before I was flamed for talking about Todd Wellemeyer.
not at all
I figured it was far more interesting than anything that could be said about the m’s
Huh?
According to BP’s adjusted standings, the Rays have been the best team in the American League, and that’s with zero innings from Scott Kazmir.
Oakland is the best team according to real wins/losses (tie with Angels), W1, W2, and W3.
?
W3 wins/losses:
Oakland: 17.5 12.5
Rays: 16.5 11.5
ooooooohh
I didn’t even notice the number of games wasn’t normalized.
my bad
I just wanna say how good it feels to go into
Yankee Stadium and have realistic hope of stopping their offense. Ironically I’ve only had that feeling the years where Arthur Rhodes was a Mariner.
I am rooting for Shelley Duncan
to have cosmetic surgery.
Seriously, that is one hideous mug.
Zombies can't all be as handsome as Raul Ibanez
by Graham MacAree on May 2, 2008 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
His brother is one of the most entertaining outfielders in baseball
imagine Raul Ibaenz with worse instincts but more speed.
by JI on May 2, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Mike Morse Mikes Chris Duncan look like Mike Cameron
by JI on May 2, 2008 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I suggest giving up and try this whole typing thing
again tomorrow.
I am rooting for him
to jest with more children that have FAS babies for parents.
by JI on May 2, 2008 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Erikkkkk Bedard has given up six runs this season and three home runs
so basically he’s Cliff Lee with more HR’s allowed. And this is actually his true talent level. WOOOO BEDARD!!
In summation
Joe Magrane: Rays are winning because they have fantastic defense
Ken Rosenthal: Despite matching the Red Sox position by position, the Rays are not ready to contend.
Help
Can someone please dig up the Ichiro/Bonds pic from a few weeks ago? I couldn’t find it. Kthxbai.
Clementclementclementclementclementclement
clementclementclementclementclementclement
Cheeseburgers are delicious.
I heard Clement drinks a lot of beer
and swears too much.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on May 2, 2008 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Raul at 1B to platoon with Richie
and glove on a stick in LF.
Bonds can play LF better than Raul....
But regardless, Reed>LF, Raul/Richie 1B Platoon, Clement C, Bonds DH would be ideal
Yesterday's Pants
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Even so, it'd be stupid to make him field
when you can DH him.
by JI on May 2, 2008 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Which is exactly why in my ideal plan he's still DHing
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If you want me dead why the hell do you copy me so much?
by Graham MacAree on May 2, 2008 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I had such high hopes for a typo-free post
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on May 2, 2008 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I did. my bad.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on May 2, 2008 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
It's a love/hate thing I think
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on May 2, 2008 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions
No, Coach is.
at least that’s a more entertaining image in my head.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on May 2, 2008 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
NAMBLA, NAMBLA, NAMBLA....
It’s the North American Marlon Brando Look-a-like Association.
Get your mind out of the gutter.
I like midgets more than I should.
It's the only phrase I know containing the word Wlad.
It’s the title of the Welsh national anthem.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Is there something wrong with Cano?
Why isn’t he in the lineup, and is A-Rod out for the series or just today?
Got the Yes and if it has been said already
I wanted to say
FUCK YOU Paul O’Neill
I'm always excited for a Bedard start,
I’m just scared shitless that he’ll hurt himself.
I like midgets more than I should.
I retract my previous comment.
Lest I receive an more >:(
I like midgets more than I should.
An more? Either fix your grammar or learn to use the "y" key in the word "any" >:(
I had to, sorry.
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I am sofa king.....
I like midgets more than I should.
* has not
god damn O’Neill makes me blind with rage
Who what when?
I haven’t been following that long
Paul O'Neill said he was going to beat up Tim Davis, a former Mariner reliever with poor control
for throwing it in too tightly. Marzano, a little guy and our backup catcher at the time said “You’ll have to go through me first!” and decked him then the benches cleared.
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RIP Marzano....
I like midgets more than I should.
:( He may not have been great but he was an awesome guy
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no real reason
I just can’t stand the fucker
He's a terrible man and I wish he was dead that's why.
Yesterday's Pants
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Buzz Bissinger won't read this blog because of cruel persons like yourself
by Lents Park Homer on May 2, 2008 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, he's not cruel at all either, judging from his language.
Yesterday's Pants
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I wish I had a screen shot of those two douches holding the flag
who brings a huge American Flag to a baseball game?
I don't like where this is going
where is this going?
That actually started out as a comment about how much the Rangers suck
But somehow it posted before I was done with it and lost all of its content. Hence: wtf?
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Not a chance.
Utah’s pretty cool. Visit any shopping mall in Provo and see how many ordinary shoppers are wearing sidearms.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Yeah, but it's creepier in Utah.
Everyone’s really well dressed all the time. With guns.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Man Matsui's bad at the outfield.
He made that look way more difficult than it was.
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so marginal good news
Mike Winters is the home ump and his strikezone is a bit wide, but narrow top to bottom, so Wang pounding low sinkers would be likely to get more pitches called a ball.
Until the wind robs Jeff Clement of a no-doubt funk.
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Short innings are our enemy.
Wang excels when he’s being efficient. Hacking turns him into Roy Halladay.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
would that have been out in nuetral wind?
gameday says 16mph L to R.
two fly balls in the 1st
Thats about what I figured we’d get off Wang for the game
I've never watched Wang on gameday before
but the pitches seem up in the zone for a groundballer. The two flies can attest to that.
the other angels fan
Looks like it won't matter much.
LF DEFENSE CLEARLY DOES NOT MATTER
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I really hate when hitters lay off balls that are very close. Bedard doesn't seem to be getting many people to chase yet.
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OH FUCK YOU RAUL
And Yuni, where was Yuni on that?
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What the fuck kind of bullshit??
Hmm... Needs more Bonds.
Jack Cust would have caught that.
Ok, no he wouldn’t.
Really, Bonds is the only one of the three who had a chance.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
I'm not a big fan of the plague
Now, if they would just get rid of the AIDS
is what I read
Your favorite meme is dead
told you up above
Winters doesn’t call the low or high strikes much
He called the first pitch, though. That was a bit lower.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
I remember the Buhner ambulance HR, A-Rod HR into the CF black
and the Gooden “no-hitter”
Yes I am 100 years old.
Okay Baker
care to tell me again that Raul’s slowness isn’t costing this team runs?
I remember a time when I thought he'd get one as a Mariner.
That was a time spent too much at DOV
Hmm... Needs more Bonds.
Maybe if we bench Raul right now.
Otherwise, 8-0 final score.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
I'm not a big Michael Kay fan
But I really like John Sterling on the radio. Now, if only they would get rid of crazy Suzyn Waldman.
Is Leiter still doing colour with Kay?
Leiter’s good.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
I listened to Sterling a couple of weeks ago
and was pleasantly surprised. You’re right about Waldman, though. She’s a little tough to handle. But they seem to have a good rapport.
Typical Sterling call:
Here. Is. The. ThreetwopitchonthewaytoMatsuiand. Its. Cutonandmissedforstrikethree.
So we hit the ball hard and on the button.
They hit outs. Score, 1-0 them
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This game is starting great.
3 hard hit balls and no hits for the M’s.
fuck luck
That’s a double in the right spot
Hmm... Needs more Bonds.
As you wish.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on May 2, 2008 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I just realized.
Clement’s bat movement is kinda weird. Never noticed that when watching him in Tacoma, but then again you only get the side view unless you’re right behind the plate.
Hmm... Needs more Bonds.
See? Clement's bat speed is so slow he couldn't even swing once before Wang threw 4 pitches.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Speed doesn't bode well when you're dealing with Wang
Hmm... Needs more Bonds.
Questioning the Sexson signing
I think based on the fact that Safeco is not a good fit for him
One thing I like the new MLB Gameday
I can have more than one game open at a time.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
C'mon Wlad! You got your first ML hit here!
Yesterday's Pants
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No Dave, he didn't get his Yankee Stadium Debut tonight.
He made his debut vs. the Yankees in Yankee stadium last year
Yesterday's Pants
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Interesting note. It was playing as the away team at Safeco field.
Yesterday's Pants
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Wang has not been good at all so far
Sinker is crossing thigh high or above.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on May 2, 2008 4:35 PM PDT reply actions
Richie Sexson has had 25 PAs that have run to a full count
He has 10 walks and 10 Ks.
Talk about 2 true outcomes…
He complained about paying taxes.
Should I have made a Ragnar Danneskjöld joke instead?
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
The last I saw of Wlad he still had an ugly swing.
He’s really prettied it up since.
Hmm... Needs more Bonds.
Wilkerson takes it and it may or may not be called a ball
Yesterday's Pants
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Nah, we've hit the ball hard off of him.
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Thanks to Richie sucking and Wlad having a long swing
We’ll never know if Wang’s K-rate is sustainable or just a product of the shitty competition he’s facing. Thanks guys.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on May 2, 2008 4:38 PM PDT reply actions
Oh FFS
This cheap ass Yankee hit shit is going to continue isn’t it?
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on May 2, 2008 4:39 PM PDT reply actions
Jesus fucking christ.
catch things defense, catch things.
...and now I'm here
To Defense,
That’s ok, I’ll just strike everyone out.
From,
Erik Bedard.
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"Hey Erik, you want to resign"
“Nah, I”m good”
by LongLiveTheKings on May 2, 2008 4:40 PM PDT reply actions
I'm pretty sure.
George Bush can resign the presidency but he can’t re-sign another four year deal.
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People I can do without:
Lofie
Yuni
Raul
Joh
Ballgame
Cairo
Richie
Vidro
Washburn
Sliva
Rhodes
fuck off and die thank you very much
swings at everything, disapointing performance, ugly face, is loved by Logan the way Robert loves Felix
by JI on May 2, 2008 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
1. No
2. Not this year
3. Hey he can get plastic surgery
4. Ok
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
That's what's wrong with Loafie.
...and now I'm here
And the drummer in Cleveland.
Fuck that guy.
...and now I'm here
Also, most of the Baldwiins.
...and now I'm here
Our defense reminds me of a little kid I saw playing pool
who thought the goal was to avoid losing any of the balls down those little holes.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Way inside.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on May 2, 2008 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions
GOD DAMMIT!
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on May 2, 2008 4:44 PM PDT reply actions
DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS
Hmm... Needs more Bonds.
How's that not an error?
Stolen Base my fucking ass. This is why “official scorekeepers” are faggots.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on May 2, 2008 4:45 PM PDT reply actions
Again, you may like that word, but stop using it.
...and now I'm here
Which one?
Official? Or Scorekeepers?
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on May 2, 2008 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Did Jeff say to cut that word out?
Because I remember people quoting that line all the time from the BBM thread with no consequences.
Have I missed this rule going to games?
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eh
I only approve when it’s used in an ironic sense, such as the BBM thread
by JI on May 2, 2008 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
The way I see it, people should be able to say what they want.
If people don’t like it, think the person who said it is stupid. I don’t really care either way, but it’s just a word.
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by the same token
people who dislike should be able to tell them to shut up
by JI on May 2, 2008 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess so. But that shouldn't mean the person who said it HAS to shut up
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true
but they can be chased away by the community like the rest of the morons
by JI on May 2, 2008 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Wouldn't that imply a forceful removal of another's opinion?
That’s about where free speech ends.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on May 2, 2008 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Calling anybody anything
Is an opinion.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on May 2, 2008 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions
That wasn't the point
You don’t have to like my opinion, but it’s not as if I was stating a fact that all official scorekeepers are a negative slur that denotes homosexuality.
Facts are facts and opinions are opinions. 90% of one’s negative reaction to someone is opinion based.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on May 2, 2008 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Aye.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on May 2, 2008 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Then consider it one of those words that in reality is 100% okay.
But please stop using it anyways in the event it may offend someone here. Cool?
...and now I'm here
Whatever
Considering all the crap that gets tossed around here, getting choosey about certain words seems weird to me.
But s’not my blog, so I’ll comply.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on May 2, 2008 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Librocrat and Brett were both wrong
AFAIK.
Free speech doesn’t apply here, but there’s been no ruling on faggot.
Regardless
Wouldn’t intent be more important then definition? I’m in no way trying to degrade, defame, or in any other ways slur an entire people or their lifestyle.
The connotation of my use is more towards the rules and the interpretations of them by people who are cigarettes, bundles of sticks, or bassoons.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on May 2, 2008 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think less of you for using it.
Because I’m sure you meant know ill-intent. Just (please) stop using it.
...and now I'm here
I don't get that.
Because you have a black and white approach to a word, all use of the word is forbidden?
Where does your personal opinion outweigh mine?
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on May 2, 2008 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh, excuse me.
I didn’t realize your personal opinion was that using a slur for gays was okay.
My apologies, knock yourself out
...and now I'm here
Faggot, typical idiot fan is the mayor of sexual orientation slurs
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Evolution of terminology
Not everybody uses the term “faggot” to slur gay people. Even if the origin of the term is rooted in that, terms can evolve past their original prejudicial meanings.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on May 2, 2008 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions
We'll close this thread.
As per Matthew’s instructions.
...and now I'm here
You're going to get a infinitely higher cooperation rate
if you phrase things less like a demand.
I'm not really invested in this.
Only sticking up for people that aren’t here.
...and now I'm here
Bigotry was one of Jeff's no-nos.
I know the intent of the word in many cases isn’t necessarily in that vein, but it’s still one of those words I’d classify as at least rooted in a bigoted idea.
This is why the definition of an error is retarded.
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I'm late to the party, sounds like it's not going well?
I like midgets more than I should.
This. Team. Sucks.
Periods. Emphasize. Rage.
...and now I'm here
Mentally unprepared
that is just totally unacceptable.
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
its like a drop on the turn of a double play
can’t assume the call would have been out, and the runner didn’t advance a base.
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
First hard hit ball by the Yankees all night.
I hate this team.
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How the fuck did he hit that?
FUCK YOU RAUL
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Game over.
At least we don't have Zito's contract.
behind by 2 runs or more.
Toss in the towel, mac.
This game is a giant heaping load of horse shit.
Bedard Day isn’t supposed to be shit on like this.
Hmm... Needs more Bonds.
those 3 runs should never have happened
put in Cairo for batting power now to show his old team he still has it
this game isn’t ove ryet
Bedard ought to just say he's injured and quit for the year.
This team is not good enough to make the playoffs.
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I'm switching to the Jays-White Sox game.
Marcum’s throwing a pretty good one.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Keep the calender on the screen.
It’s much more entertaining than this game.
Hmm... Needs more Bonds.
This team is bad at playing baseball
It’s just a pity that that’s what they spend most of their time doing
That's true.
This team would be awesome if they didn’t have to play baseball.
...and now I'm here
The entire starting rotation
should demand a trade.
I know. How much must it suck to know that if you give up even a couple runs, you're getting the loss.
Damn.
I like midgets more than I should.
Just no run support.
4 straight complete games. 3 losses.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Yeah, they should. They shoud demand Raul is traded or DHs or they go on strike.
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Seriously though
I wasn’t expecting only 88 MPH from him
we had a chance of winning?
hahahaha…. good one.
None of these guys give a crap… look at the way they’re playing with all the mental mistakes.
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
Nope, just a deceptive delivery and good location
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How does this happen to Bedard every game?
...and now I'm here
Off to Sharks/Stars
Could be handshake night.
I never realized Ensberg had such a noodle arm
Hmm... Needs more Bonds.
Game is official now
“past a diving Jetere”
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
Ensburg is only playing up
because of that weak ass arm of his.
it wasn't long ago
when I would have just assumed that Yuni would have gotten that one…... that’s just no longer the case though.
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
Well, he IS a champion... My friends...
I like midgets more than I should.
Queen huh?
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on May 2, 2008 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sitting in New York with my window open
DO NOT PUT THE BALL IN THE AIR
by LongLiveTheKings on May 2, 2008 5:02 PM PDT reply actions
Goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
MARINERS!!!!!!!!
...and now I'm here
Don't hurt your ankles leaping off the bandwagon.
(Besides, you know that’s just GTE)
I like midgets more than I should.
Wrong and immoral.
Seattle-based sports fans are only supposed to know suffering, yes?
God this guy is so fucking ugly.
...and now I'm here
Try getting out of bed then, you fa........
I like midgets more than I should.
Felix is great enough for the both of them
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1-0 Final, Yanks win, Raul Error, 12K's no hit, CG for Felix?
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It's funny because it's true.
...and now I'm here
Marcum still pitching well (8 Ks, 1 BB)
but he has lost the no-hitter.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
We've got get beat Wang off
the mound then.
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To what you posted earlier..
No, he is not always 88-89
He usually sits 91-93, I was commenting on this with JAC over at prospect insider. He said he could dial it up to 94-95 when he wanted to too, and this could be an issue.
I was hoping we would destroy him
so I could say something like “the Sea Men exploded all over Wang” and make some gay jokes.
But, alas, no.
by JI on May 2, 2008 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey look
Raul caught something.
He can still fuck off and die, though.
"If this were a marriage he'd sue for lack of support right now"
For those of you not getting Michael Kay
by LongLiveTheKings on May 2, 2008 5:12 PM PDT reply actions
Excuse me for a moment.
...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
This team sucks.
...and now I'm here
The aesthetics of this image are amazing.
...and now I'm here
Oh up YOURS BLUE
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on May 2, 2008 5:13 PM PDT reply actions
The ump just figured we deserve it for sucking so hard.
I can’t say I disagree.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
I don't think that hit him at all
Furthermore, I thought it was a strike!
Totally agree. Erik is getting jobbed tonight.
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That clitoris stuck his fucking elbow in the way
by Jeff Sullivan on May 2, 2008 5:13 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
I am reccomending this fanpost
because I don’t know what else to do with it.
by JI on May 2, 2008 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions
New rule: If it doesn't hurt, and you clearly don't try to get out of the way, it's not a free base.
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OH YEAH SOMEONE SHOULD TELL THE UMPIRES
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Wlad needs to make a throw there, that wasn't hit to very deep RF
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
If Shelley Duncan scores
I’m going to set the building on fire.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Here's where we get pwned
by a Molina. This is going to suck.

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