5/14: Open Game Thread, Part 3
by Jeff Sullivan on May 14, 2008 1:28 PM PDT
in Seattle Mariners Game Threads
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PrintWe may be on the verge of blowing this lead but hey at least the Stars are doomed.
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I'd give Utley Beltre's contract
Except he’s already like 30 right?
http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com
I'd give Utley 15-17 million per year over 4 years or so.
He’s really really good.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 14, 2008 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
And the first born children of every family in the Northwest
by Graham MacAree on May 14, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Age? Someone said he's already 30 right?
Plus he plays in a band box.
Maybe if he were a few years younger?
I don’t know you guys are better at this than me.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 14, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Chase Utley is a 29 year old good defensive 2B with four consecutive .300+ EqA seasons
by Jeff Sullivan on May 14, 2008 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Fair enough. I don't know much about the aging curves for 2B so I have no idea how long he can maintain.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 14, 2008 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
He has an awful long way to decline before he's bad
by Jeff Sullivan on May 14, 2008 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
So given the length of his contract
how many, if any, years will he be overpaid? And is that acceptable?
I’ve wondered about this for a while. There seems to be a consensus (in the stat community) that if you are going to overpay, overpay for the superstar talents. Another consensus is that you should try to keep the length of contracts short, especially for pitchers. But how much “overpaying” is ok when it comes to length of a contract?
by GhettoBear04 on May 14, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think there's any set equation
if the player fits, he fits. So, for instance, were Utley a free agent, it would make more sense for, say, Tampa Bay to give him a massive contract than for Pittsburgh to do the same, because the upside for the Rays would stand a pretty good chance of making the eventual overpayment worthwhile.
by Jeff Sullivan on May 14, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
fuck.
As soon as i wake up and turn on the game, they lose the lead.
Pop goes the buttsy on the left hand side!!
Damn you Jeff.
I had a witty retort, and you closed comments.
Coach Owens isn't a Wings fan
Coach Owens is a moron
by Jeff Sullivan on May 14, 2008 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
It's nice being better than someone who is cleary better than you.
Plus, I’ve been around since the Joe Torre years. Coach is a Wings bandwagoner.
by JI on May 14, 2008 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I fail to understand how the Wings still playing is an improvement
Northeastern University Huskies: Mediocre hockey, guaranteed.
by Carl Johnson on May 14, 2008 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
He's always up when you least want him
It’s Murphy’s Law
In the name of the Bedard, the Felix, and the Ichiro, amen.
by Robert Lintott on May 14, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sorry
It was set up on a tee
In the name of the Bedard, the Felix, and the Ichiro, amen.
by Robert Lintott on May 14, 2008 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll be sure to send you all
NBA scores next year.
by GhettoBear04 on May 14, 2008 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions
To follow up
You should take player-park factors into account in that those factors contribute to a player’s contributions, which is the only thing that matters when judging a contract. You don’t say a contract is more or less fair based on a player’s skills regardless of park factors, because those park factors are unavoidable in their effect on his performance.
Beltre's contract is fine.
...and now I'm here
"Has there every been a long term contract that has worked out?"
Yes. Beltre.
...and now I'm here
Not sure I can think of one better.
Unless you want to count Bret Boone because he helped get us to the playoffs.
in terms of production, no doubt
but w/o Boone how much worse are we 2001-3?
Agreed
In terms of impact, Boone was huge. In terms of raw production, Beltre ranks higher.
I disagree
Boone was better over those three years than Beltre has been by an insane margin
by Graham MacAree on May 14, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Including defense....
Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum
by PositivePaul on May 14, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Bret Boone was an outstanding defensive second baseman until he hit the wall in 04
by Graham MacAree on May 14, 2008 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
And his 2001 was one of the best seasons of all time
by Jeff Sullivan on May 14, 2008 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes.
Should’ve won MVP over Ichiro. Screw Giambi.
Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum
by PositivePaul on May 14, 2008 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
No.
Boone: 153 OPS+ in Safeco, 2B defense
A-Rod: 160 OPS+ in Arlington, SS defense
I know park factors are part of OPS+ but I’m not completely sold that OPS+ completely removes the bias for players who play in extreme parks.
Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum
by PositivePaul on May 14, 2008 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
The part about OPS bias, that is.
I’d probably pick A-Rod, though.
by eponymous_coward on May 14, 2008 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I honestly don't know if Alomar's rep matched his actually abilities.
by JI on May 14, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
On offense it's a wash
Defensively, Boone destroys him
by Graham MacAree on May 14, 2008 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll take a look at the numbers later
but I’ll concede you’re probably right, since you’re Graham and all.
I don't know what this comment means but you are wrong
by Jeff Sullivan on May 14, 2008 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
basically
If you have two equal hitters except one is RH and the other is LH, and give them equal contracts to play at Safeco, the left-handed contract is a better value
This doesn't change the fact that Beltre has been good
by Jeff Sullivan on May 14, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm just responding to a specific point about park effect and contract evaluation
This is not specifically related to whether or not Beltre’s contract is worth it.
So you should evaluate a player's contract regardless of how a park
specifically affects him individually.
Which you are doing wrong if you don't think he's worth it
by Graham MacAree on May 14, 2008 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not an expert on player value to begin with
I thought 13 million was too much, I could very well be wrong on that.
See but what you're misunderstanding is this.
If Beltre hits .270/.320/.480 with gold glove defense in Safeco, and .290/.340/.500 anywhere else, the park does take away from his numbers. However, it takes away from the numbers of EVERYONE who plays in Safeco, therefore a .270/.320/.480 line in Safeco is just as valuable as a .290/.340/.500 anywhere else.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 14, 2008 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
No I'm talking about Safeco's effects on right vs. left handed hitters
Not overall offensive depression
People were saying that Safeco kills righties, so his contract is fine based on that info
I’m saying its not an excuse.
Why isn't it an excuse?
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 14, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Because the contract's value is what it is.
It doesn’t change simply because the organization selected a player that poorly fit their ballpark.
But the contract is just as valuable considering the lower line in Safeco is just as good as a neutral line in a neutral park.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 14, 2008 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
His contract is fine based on his value with the bat and the glove
by Graham MacAree on May 14, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Okay, it wouldn't take much to convince me of that, its just a matter of money
I’m talking about a general observation though in this case
Who wants to give me money to go strangle the Rangers music operator?
Pop goes the buttsy on the left hand side!!
The music operator
Is also the PA guy and more or less the PR manager. Chuck Morgan does a lot of things. As much as I like him, though, I have to agree. The sound selection is horrid.
I'm okay with The Natural but the FSN thing is just embarrassing
by Jeff Sullivan on May 14, 2008 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
EVERY PLAYER THE RANGERS HAVE IS THE NATURAL
Pop goes the buttsy on the left hand side!!
by PhilKenSebben on May 14, 2008 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I personally hate the 3 ball count music the most.
Since the Mariners let Rangers get into 3 ball counts a lot.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 14, 2008 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Nah
Likelihood of an NHL team leaving a large Canadian = vanishingly small
Also.
Fuck the misappropriation of Beethoven’s 5th
In the name of the Bedard, the Felix, and the Ichiro, amen.
No kidding!
I mean, hell, Beethoven’s 5th is only a 3rd.
What a frickin’ ripoff.
Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum
by PositivePaul on May 14, 2008 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Not even an important one
It’s just a minor third
In the name of the Bedard, the Felix, and the Ichiro, amen.
by Robert Lintott on May 14, 2008 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
How much would you give Matt Kemp in 2 years?
Same goes for the Dodgers catcher, forget his name, brain fart right now.
And James Loney, man that team has some good young talent.
http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com
Writer actually...
Wrote the book about Picasso’s Guernica.
Bob Ross
Happy little bongs…
Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum
by PositivePaul on May 14, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Defense? What happened?
I’ve only got Gameday pitch-by-pitch.
Clement's hitting for the cycle...
At least we don't have Zito's contract.
Can't, would lose the DH
At least we don't have Zito's contract.
This is why we still watch.
I like midgets more than I should.
It's not reciprocated...
I’m sorry
In the name of the Bedard, the Felix, and the Ichiro, amen.
by Robert Lintott on May 14, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Too bad he lives all the way in San Diego
And you’re all the way in the UK
http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com
Clement!
We don’t need the worst player in baseball!
...because he's already playing first base for us this series.
Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum
by PositivePaul on May 14, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
The ball seems to fly in Texas no matter what time it is
Can’t say the same about the parks on the west coast at night…
All Games and Comments are Subject to Blackout
the pitcher will fake to first and Bloomquist will try to steal home
I know that would be a balk, but whatever
So now if this game goes extras we get Burke and Johjima in the lineup at the same time?
by Lents Park Homer on May 14, 2008 1:41 PM PDT reply actions
But the grit level went so far up!
Pop goes the buttsy on the left hand side!!
by PhilKenSebben on May 14, 2008 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
The grit image should have this meter in reverse, relabelled...
...then a cut to the fat bearded X-Wing guy getting blown up.
#1 DRAFT PICK!!!
I fucking hate you Mariners
I'm too excited for this.
It’s kind of sad that our season is already over but the anguish I’m enduring wondering if we can suck just enough is bothersome.
I fucking hate you Mariners
This is exactly how I've felt since I saw the video of the Utah game.
And I feel really guilty about it too.
by Graham MacAree on May 14, 2008 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Would you trade away Clement for the rights to him?
Not that it’s possible, but since you love Jeff so much…
I fucking hate you Mariners
I dunno
I’d think about it. I’m currently trying to buy a Strasburg SDSU jersey though…
by Graham MacAree on May 14, 2008 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP
I fucking hate you Mariners
I think this would be damn near impossible to screw up
by Graham MacAree on May 14, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I just assume we'll fuck everything up
and get overjoyed the few times we don’t
by JI on May 14, 2008 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Do you have a link to that?
At least we don't have Zito's contract.
Here. Not working for some people though.
by Graham MacAree on May 14, 2008 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
so Yuni has 4 PAs this game
he’s seen 5 pitches
....
....
You lack Discipline
Coach Owens has no bones
by Scruffy Lefty on May 14, 2008 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Runner at 3rd 1 out and no score?
It’s all over the majors!
All Games and Comments are Subject to Blackout
99.5%
Pop goes the buttsy on the left hand side!!
by PhilKenSebben on May 14, 2008 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Putz In, Game Over
But not that way.
Oh, wait, Lowe in for the Lowdown…
Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum
He went to play on the Stars
All Games and Comments are Subject to Blackout
by Hit4TheCycle on May 14, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Married Life:
Wife: “But I thought Modano was the best player on the team! That’s why he’s always on TV and stuff”
Me: “Well, you see…nevermind, I need another beer.”
by GhettoBear04 on May 14, 2008 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Why isn't JJ pitching?
This is retarded. You should pitch your best pitcher in tie games from the bot. 9th on.
the other angels fan
BUT TEH SAEV!!!
Pop goes the buttsy on the left hand side!!
by PhilKenSebben on May 14, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
GERPOTENWOGEN!
Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum
by PositivePaul on May 14, 2008 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
See fuck those "statistics"
Our defense is awesome. We’ll show up on webgems, the true qualification of a good defense.
Richie = good first baseman
Cairo = agile
Sky = green
If I were doing it wrong I'd be dead by now
by Jeff Sullivan on May 14, 2008 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
There is a Utah Miner's joke in there somewhere..too dark to find it though
I fucking hate you Mariners
Isn't that your goal?
You’re doing it wrong by not doing it wrong!
I've now burnt 2 hours watching this Mariner game instead of doing Math homework...
fail
At least we don't have Zito's contract.
Mariners to Rangers:
But but we dont wanna
At least we don't have Zito's contract.
Can I get a score update?
I like midgets more than I should.
It is on the top of the LL homepage
...and now I'm here
having tourettes?
Pop goes the buttsy on the left hand side!!
by PhilKenSebben on May 14, 2008 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Playing golf makes me angrier than Lollablueza
by Jeff Sullivan on May 14, 2008 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
At least you only invested 3 hours in that shit
I gave up work hours drove across the state and back for that bullshit.
by JI on May 14, 2008 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions
just woke up..
was this an exciting 3-3 game, or the more likely painful type?
although I did wake up to catch that Cairo double play, thought I was in the twilight zone or something
If you still feel things when watching the mariners
you haven’t been paying attention. So that being said, it was a [NUMB] game.
the other angels fan
For some odd reason, I still get excited/pissed off watching this team
Although my heart isn’t all the way in it. That 13-12 game on Monday evoked emotion (or shock) I didn’t know I had left for the M’s. Watching a doomed team is comforting, somehow.
by AtomicGarden on May 14, 2008 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Having a debate with my brother...
Who is the Mariners best hitter?
At least we don't have Zito's contract.
depends...
Ichiro probably. But Beltre or Ibanez for power
Duh...
HR and RBI. That’s why it’s called the Triple Crown.
by GhettoBear04 on May 14, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Still
You could argue that Ichiro is our best hitter. He gets 200 hits a year (a lot of which is due to speed and beating out grounders), although he rarely walks. Meh… it’s debatable.
by AtomicGarden on May 14, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Washburn
Pop goes the buttsy on the left hand side!!
by PhilKenSebben on May 14, 2008 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I can't decide if he ignores them...
...or listens to them all at once.
by GhettoBear04 on May 14, 2008 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Hamilton will have a walk off hit..I know it!
I fucking hate you Mariners
Wait, someone said that Mac has no position players left
does that mean he used his only two bench players (WFB and Burke) for a combined pinch running jaunt?
hopefully
he’s been scary sometimes recently
by AtomicGarden on May 14, 2008 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
We have a very limited selection of potchers
by Jeff Sullivan on May 14, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
no edit feature..
Pop goes the buttsy on the left hand side!!
by PhilKenSebben on May 14, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Well until he's called off he thinks it's his ball. Wlad didn't call him off.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 14, 2008 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I. Have. Shit. To. Do.
Hurry. Up. And. Finish.
...and now I'm here
Touche
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 14, 2008 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Anyone else compare Yuni and Lopez
to Michael Boulware and Ken Hamlin? Two young guys up the middle that looked like they could be awesome, but just ended up sucking/being about average or just below
http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com
Hamlin made the Pro Bowl last year...
not that means a whole lot. I think he got overrated because he plays next to the turnstile that is Roy Williams pass coverage.
by GhettoBear04 on May 14, 2008 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
It was because he was on the Cowboys
I always see him getting beat deep. Plus Lopez made the all-star game a few years back…
http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com
Welker abused Hamlin last year
It was Glorious
Coach Owens has no bones
by Scruffy Lefty on May 14, 2008 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Not as bad as he did Reeves (Nickel CB)
But, let’s be honest, Welker abused just about everyone last year.
by GhettoBear04 on May 14, 2008 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
The only play I really remember
Is hamiln trying to call a audible then running up to the line to only watch welker run right by him for a easy TD
Coach Owens has no bones
by Scruffy Lefty on May 14, 2008 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I was under the impression that they're the same player
terrible in coverage and awesome hitters who have ridiculously over-inflated reps because of a few highlight reel hits
by seattlebruin on May 14, 2008 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Roy Willams doesn't even hit hard anymore.
Trust me, Roy Williams is a lot worse at his job than Hamlin is at his.
by GhettoBear04 on May 14, 2008 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
But Hamlin is a pro-bowler!!
Yeah, kind of. I had really high hopes for Boulware after how awesome he was in 2005. So go find us a russell/grant
Pop goes the buttsy on the left hand side!!
by PhilKenSebben on May 14, 2008 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Please not Russell
Russell is like Bloomquist
Coach Owens has no bones
by Scruffy Lefty on May 14, 2008 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Babineaux is the Bloomquist of the Seahawks--versatile, bad, fan favorite, makes a few good plays.
I nominate Babs for only playing late in the 4th quarter vs. the Cowboys.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on May 14, 2008 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Death to Babs.
I sure hope Wilson is healthy this season.
Nah, more like a cairo
Veteran, Bloomquist is a Babineaux, plays Saftey #2 corner, dime, nickel, all adequatley one or two plays at a time
http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com
That makes Mike Green Ben Broussard
Pop goes the buttsy on the left hand side!!
by PhilKenSebben on May 14, 2008 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
We're not even in good shape for a nine-inning game
by seattlebruin on May 14, 2008 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Could this be the day that WFB pitches?
by seattlebruin on May 14, 2008 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe Washburn could throw LR and get an arm injury.
by JI on May 14, 2008 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Would he go out to the bullpen?
OH GOD I WANT THIS TO HAPPEN
Pop goes the buttsy on the left hand side!!
by PhilKenSebben on May 14, 2008 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
err for Willie that is
Pop goes the buttsy on the left hand side!!
by PhilKenSebben on May 14, 2008 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Who the fuck is gonna pitch?
Don’t say Vidro don’t say VIdro don’t say Vidro