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Seattle @ Cleveland


 

Lineup

Seattle Mariners @ Cleveland Indians

04/30/08 4:05 PM PDT

Seattle MarinersCleveland Indians
Ichiro Suzuki - CF Grady Sizemore - CF
Jose Lopez - 2B Jamey Carroll - 2B
Raul Ibanez - "LF" Victor Martinez - 1B
Adrian Beltre - 3B Ryan Garko - DH
Jose Vidro - "DH" Casey Blake - 3B
Richie Sexson - 1B Franklin Gutierrez - RF
Wladimir Balentien  - RF Kelly Shoppach - C
Kenji Johjima - C Jason Michaels - LF
Yuniesky Betancourt - SS Asdrubal Cabrera - SS


 

W-LGGSCGSHOSVBSIPHRERHRBBKERAWHIP
2008 - Jarrod Washburn 1-3 5 5 0 0 0 0 29.0 34 13 13 4 5 15 4.03 1.34

W-LGGSCGSHOSVBSIPHRERHRBBKERAWHIP
2008 - Cliff Lee 4-0 4 4 1 1 0 0 31.2 11 2 1 0 2 29 0.28 .41

I'm not real good at service time stuff. I don't really care one way or the other if these new guys become Super Twos, but if we really did just sacrifice a year of club control for an extra ten days or so of playing time now, that's stupid. That would be a stupid decision, and I'll yell at Bill about that another time.

However, for right now - holy crap. Maybe Wlad isn't ready to hit Major League pitching. Maybe Clement isn't, either. But the Mariners - the Seattle Mariners - just cleared two spots in the lineup for their top young talent by cutting one veteran and diminishing the playing time of another. Yeah, both Wilkerson and Vidro are pretty obviously finished as decent players, but the fact that this is happening now, while we're still in the first month of the season, just blows me away. This is how you win now. You identify your problems and stock your Major League roster with the best players in the system as quickly as you can. As an ardent cynic, I have to admit that the front office just took me by surprise. I didn't think this would happen until at least the middle of June. If ever.

Bill Bavasi decided during the winter that he wanted to win in 2008, and while I don't necessarily agree that this was the right time to strike, at least he's sticking to the plan. A proper win-now mentality doesn't allow much time for struggling veterans to right the ship. A proper win-now mentality leads to moves like this. It's a broader decision with which I disagree, but a decision I respect. Bill Bavasi wants to win. And if you want to win, you need to put as much talent on the roster as you possibly can.

If it works, that's awesome. If it doesn't, we gave it our best shot. But either way, the here and now just got that much more interesting. There will be no Adam Jones situations in 2008. Jeff Clement and Wladimir Balentien have been freed. I guess there's only one thing left to say.

LET'S GO MARINERS!!

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Well said

I agree with every word. It’s bizarre that they’d sacrifice a year of service time for this, but then, I though it was bizarre to go all-in for 2008.
Once you’ve done that, though, you better damn well get the best team out on the field. You absolutely cannot kowtow to veteran entitlement. Well done, M’s.

by marc w on Apr 30, 2008 2:17 PM PDT   0 recs

"I agree with every word. It’s bizarre that they’d sacrifice a year of service time for this, but then, I though it was bizarre to go all-in for 2008."

accd. to stone on KJR today, all we need to do to keep him for that extra year is get him his 7 days in the minors at some later date. so stop freaking out. btw, where does he stand on options?

“you better damn well get the best team out on the field. You absolutely cannot kowtow to veteran entitlement. Well done, M’s”

this i agree with, in this instance and generally

by bholdr on Apr 30, 2008 3:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Refer

to this subthread as to why we don’t think that we can get those seven days at a later date

by seattlebruin on Apr 30, 2008 3:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe it doesn't have to be this year?

Maybe it can be ANY later date?

...and now I'm here

by Librocrat on Apr 30, 2008 3:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Well then they'd have to fail - if they're successful, there's no way to

explain randomly sending them down for ten days at some future point. Especially when it would conveniently delay their arbitration by a year – like Corco pointed out earlier, it’s a grievance waiting to happen if they try it

by seattlebruin on Apr 30, 2008 3:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Completely untrue.

He does not need to start the season in 2009 or 2010. Not with Johjima around. Keep him down after Spring Training for just 10 days then call him up. That’s possible, right?

...and now I'm here

by Librocrat on Apr 30, 2008 3:24 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That was the more likely scenario to me

he starts in Tacoma in 2009 for two weeks

by Matthew on Apr 30, 2008 3:27 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

that being said,

this is still retarded. Clement’s going to get, what 3 maybe 4 starts between now and May 7?

by Matthew on Apr 30, 2008 3:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm just not seeing it, Matthew

If he comes up and hits .270/.350/.470 like Dave Cameron projects, how do you justify leaving that bat in Tacoma to start next season? Especially if there’s a place for him on the roster at DH or 1B.

by seattlebruin on Apr 30, 2008 3:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't justify it

and I don’t expect the team to either. I’m just saying that’s the most likely proposition SHOULD the team try to get him at AAA for 10 days.

by Matthew on Apr 30, 2008 3:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

that still doesn't make any sense

because you’re still going to pay a higher premium on that bought out FA year than you would have on a bought out arb year.

by Matthew on Apr 30, 2008 3:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, that's true too

honestly, I’m just mystified by the timing of this move, between the service time issues as well as the “why the hell did you bother bringing Wilkerson and Norton to Cleveland just to cut them one day later” thing (unless it was related to Wlad’s knee, like I was speculating here)

by seattlebruin on Apr 30, 2008 3:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Mariners are to timing

as Morse is to fielding

I'm more like I am now than I've ever been.

by ralphie81 on Apr 30, 2008 4:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, this is stupid

but I don’t want to play that card until I’m in a worse mood so I can really free the beast.

by Jeff on Apr 30, 2008 3:32 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yep, training a GM is like training a dog

When it does a good thing and a bad thing, you just praise the good thing so it doesn’t get what it should do and what it shouldn’t do confused.

by Jordan of Boise on Apr 30, 2008 3:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Grievance.

Or, SHENNANIGANS!!

I like midgets more than I should.

by Thingray on Apr 30, 2008 3:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

With the DBacks getting pounded, and Wlad and Clement being called up

For the first time this season Mariners, you have my full and undivided attention.

Kick some ass.

Felix Hernandez may be The King, but Justin Upton is a GOD.

by Goose on Apr 30, 2008 2:18 PM PDT   0 recs

Yeah, his corpse has become attached to the grass in left.

Really glad these guys are up. Wlad’s 3 HR night the other night (1 inside the park) was pretty impressive.

I would not be shocked if Wlad outhits Adam Jones.

by ASUBoyd on Apr 30, 2008 2:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Me neither. What makes Jones a more valuable prospect overall

is speed and defence. Wlad could easily surpass him in hitting prowess—especially power.

by redwolf75 on Apr 30, 2008 3:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm telling ya

Cut Burke and bring up Reed to play LF which pushed Ibanez to 1B and Sexson to DH. Clement and Kenji split catching and Clement gets a few ABs at 1B/DH. If Kenji gets hurt and we have to put Clement at catcher halfway through the game and lose the DH we’ll be ok. Its not that big of a deal.

by Edgar for Pres on Apr 30, 2008 3:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ok

scale it back then. Sexson stays at 1B and Ibanez to DH. Clement can steal some ABs from 1B/DH still.

by Edgar for Pres on Apr 30, 2008 3:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The value of a single PH

is probably insignificant compared to the value of getting Ibanez out of LF.

by Edgar for Pres on Apr 30, 2008 3:27 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

the just cut Johjima

it’s about as likely

by JI on Apr 30, 2008 3:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Don't cut Burke, cut Cairo.

I like midgets more than I should.

by Thingray on Apr 30, 2008 3:27 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

DESTROY CLIFF LEE, WLAD

REGRESS HIS ASS TO THE MEAN

by Gomez on Apr 30, 2008 2:25 PM PDT   0 recs

Cliff Lee

has any one come up with a good explanation for Cliff Lee’s year thus far?

by msb on Apr 30, 2008 2:28 PM PDT   0 recs

Not all of it.

His FIP is 1.44. His K/BB rate is 14.50. His K/9 is 8.24. His GB rate is up and his LD is down. I don’t know what his tRA is, but I bet it’s pretty good too. Point is, he’s not getting lucky in the sense that Zack Greinke is getting lucky, his raw numbers all indicate that while he’s not going to continue having 1 ER all year, he’s been an excellent pitcher and has a decent shot at an ERA below 3.

*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!

by TheOptimist on Apr 30, 2008 2:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

To clarify

His component stats are being driven by luck

by Graham on Apr 30, 2008 2:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

There's really nothing to say to that, other than

for the sake of my fantasy team tonight I hope you’re correct.

*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!

by TheOptimist on Apr 30, 2008 2:45 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I feel suitably aroused

Let’s bloody have at it!

Come on Ms!

Accidental Mariner - P3 W1 L2 (.333)
Sponsor of Jamie Burke's baseball-reference page

by MarkE on Apr 30, 2008 2:35 PM PDT   0 recs

I want to see lineups out with their names on it.

And then I want to see the same thing next game. And then again one game after that. Only then I will be happy that we aren’t going to screw this up.

by DCMariner on Apr 30, 2008 2:42 PM PDT   0 recs

Is the USS Mariner site down?

I can’t get it to load here at work so I’ve been reading Baker’s Blog and now my brain hurts. This is a particularly good one:


It sure is sad that the Mariners think bringing up some unproven kids will help them. It might for a few days but once everyone knows what these kids can do the bats will go cold. I see Mariners fans all complaining about their players and wanting help from their prospects. Prospects don’t make an offense better. You bring them up slowly to learn to hit in the majors. Just look at the struggles the Dodgers are having. And that’s been going on a couple years. Do Mariners fans just think anyone has to be better than who they have now?

by nwtrev on Apr 30, 2008 2:45 PM PDT   0 recs

Oh Baker you flamebaiter

The Dodgers are failing because they’re expecting washed up veterans to produce in MOTO spots. And their prospects keep getting the Adam Jones treatment because Ned Colletti likes prospects as much as Pat Gillick did.

by Gomez on Apr 30, 2008 2:49 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You have a more diverse crowd posting under Baker's blog

I just don’t understand how you need to be proven in order to be good.

by Fin on Apr 30, 2008 2:54 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That guy is dumb

He’s also blaming the Dodgers being .500 on Matt Kemp and the other rookies on the team, saying they’re making the Veterans play bad.

by joof on Apr 30, 2008 2:51 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

msb

oh, so it’s Jeff Kent posting?

by msb on Apr 30, 2008 2:54 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That's "Brian"

Not me, another Brian. He’s an idiot, but at least he’s not as bad as Logie.

by BrianL on Apr 30, 2008 3:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Stop it with the lying

we read Baker’s blog. We know what you think about veterans and how these young guys are just disrupting the chemistry of the team :)

by seattlebruin on Apr 30, 2008 3:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Fine I admit it.

I’m a spy sent by Howard Lincoln to destroy this blog and you damn free-thinking hippies.

by BrianL on Apr 30, 2008 3:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

What do you have against ether?

It’s great for getting oil off your driveway.

I Jeff hates pho?

by Llewdor on Apr 30, 2008 3:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

So do my fantasy teams

:D

The poster formerly known as Matt.

by bluemax on Apr 30, 2008 4:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Wilkerson can at least play OF

However, he is about done as a hitter. That Wilk was even getting complimented for actually getting around on an inside pitch for a change says a lot about how done he is. Vidro can at least do something with his ABs and slap a ball past a fielder here and there. That’s not a bad bat to have on the bench.

by Gomez on Apr 30, 2008 2:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Vidro is more than done as a hitter

take the guy with no vesting option and better defense, especially since we don’t have many backup OFers. We are fucked six ways from Sunday if there is an injury.

by JI on Apr 30, 2008 2:54 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think Wilk is more done

Wilkerson can’t hit for AVG/SLG anymore cause he’s too old. Once pitchers figure this out the walks will disapear and he will be totally worthless. At least Vidro can make contact and will have a decent (but empty) AVG and OBP.

by Edgar for Pres on Apr 30, 2008 3:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Wilkerson can play OF?

I don’t know if he’s an asset in the OF.

I’d say Vidro is a much better bench bat cause his contact% is much better.

by Edgar for Pres on Apr 30, 2008 3:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

kept or cut?

I wouldn’t keep Wilkerson when we have 3 OF in AAA who are better. Keeping Vidro is stupid be he’s a switch hitter who can draw some walks and hit for average which is something. I don’t like Vidro but coming off the bench he’s fine.

by Edgar for Pres on Apr 30, 2008 3:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

His .218 BABIP tells me so

If that gets up to reasonable levels (even a poor .270) his average will come back and so will his OBP.

by Edgar for Pres on Apr 30, 2008 3:24 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

kept both on the team

not in the everyday lineup.

IOW, there’s more expendable chaff in my opinion.

by Matthew on Apr 30, 2008 3:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No way, Vidro has to go

someone has to take McLaren’s toy away from him

by JI on Apr 30, 2008 3:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

with Ballgame Jr in AAA

he’s completely useless

Except that he our backup firstbaseman!

by JI on Apr 30, 2008 3:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Am I the only one bummed about Norton?

I liked him. Not as a starter; it was fun to have someone on the bench who could actually hit.

The
Richie,
the

by Rollo Tomasi on Apr 30, 2008 2:56 PM PDT   0 recs

Me too

I would have rather seen Cairo go.

The artist formerly known as Katal

by EricBehrens on Apr 30, 2008 3:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

They had to keep Cairo.

He’s still the same guy they hired him to be. Wilkerson, on the other hand, sucks, despite being hired to be awesome.

The Norton thing I don’t get. But there’s no way they were going to cut Cairo.

I Jeff hates pho?

by Llewdor on Apr 30, 2008 3:44 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Norton really isn't that good.

Although I would have kept him over Cairo.

by BrianL on Apr 30, 2008 3:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

He hits line drives.

He wouldn’t set the world on fire, but I’d Much prefer having him to watching Vidro leg out those infield singles.

The
Richie,
the

by Rollo Tomasi on Apr 30, 2008 3:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Norton leaving is a shame

Seemed like he was doing well and having him around for offense and defense seemed like a no-brainer. Maybe the Ms feel the Willie and Cairo have the utility role wrapped up. I realize I just paraphrased Baker but I do agree with him on this point. I’m pretty sure someone will pick up Norton; Wilkerson…. I dunno….

by nwtrev on Apr 30, 2008 3:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Also, Iwonder how many open windows my computer can handle

I’ll be damned if I miss hearing out on Jeff views on religion, abortion, and politics.

by JI on Apr 30, 2008 2:56 PM PDT   0 recs