It's Official
Bill Bavasi announced today that the Mariners have agreed to terms with catcher Kenji Johjima on a three-year, $24M contract extension. Johjima, who was eligible for free agency at the end of this season, is now signed through 2011.
You all know why this such a horrible move. Clement, the likely draft compensation from letting Kenji walk, Kenji's age, Kenji's horrible start to 2008 (and not just his numbers, he looks bad), Kenji's workload, etc etc etc.
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Oh my fucking god.
I hate this team. This team needs to die now.
...and now I'm here
Is there such a thing as Bad Signing Thread Emotion?
If not, there should be.
by eponymous_coward on Apr 25, 2008 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Holy shit
I mean….you think you’ve finally figured out how retarded a front office is, spent hours and hours bitching about it and figuring you’ve seen the worst.
Bavasi can always surprise you.
the other angels fan [formerly newlocal]
Saw it coming a million miles away
don’t count on any of our good vets leaving ever
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
How can this team
be so bad at evaluating talent? Honestly, how can management be this bad?
So umm who do we get when we trade Clement now?
Also, why does the office always do the COMPLETE FUCKING OPPOSITE of what us bloggers request?
Beware of the GTE.
Bavasi must carry around a card that reads:
Always do the opposite of what the bloggers say
the other angels fan [formerly newlocal]
Thank god for the Seahawks
Field Gulls says sign Mike Wahle. Hawks sign Mike Wahle 2 days later.
Field Gulls says sign T.J. Duckett. Hawks sign Duckett 2 days later.
One front office understands that blogs aren’t just a bunch of nerds but may actually have a point. And strangely enough, the local Seattle team that listens to the blogs…goes to the playoffs every year….weird.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Apr 25, 2008 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions
As much credit as we'd like to take
I don’t think there’s a particularly high correlation between listening to blogs and going to the playoffs…
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
well obviously
I doubt Duckett and Wahle were signed because Field Gulls said so, but it’s nice to see a blog and a front office that have many of the same beliefs in talent evaluation.
FREE JEREMY REED!!
He must be like a sub-god
Because if he was a true god, he wouldn’t let this happen.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Apr 25, 2008 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
God Ruskell create a rock so massive that he himself could not lift it?
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Could Ruskell microwave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it?
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Apr 25, 2008 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
What. The. Fuck
I did not see this coming. Just goes to show you that Bill Bavasi lives life as if every day is Opposite Day.
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Apr 25, 2008 1:33 PM PDT reply actions
Yeah, I'm sorry.
He has officially beaten Brian Sabean. Our 2009-2011 team is going to be abysmal.
...and now I'm here
2010 Mariners = worse than any year with Sabean.
Expect a 50 win team.
...and now I'm here
I say more.
We’ll get 34 from Felix… I’m confident in 17 more scraped out.
We will still have no defense.
Felix = 0-19 with a 1.49 FIP
...and now I'm here
Felix? The guy that Bavasi will let walk?
Because he won’t win any games as a starter?
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Lincoln, Armstrong, Bavasi and Mac
need to be fired. Now.
Kickass
Now this means we can trade Clement for Griffey. Problem solved
by Robert on Apr 25, 2008 1:36 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
This is kinda funny considering there was just a rash of pitchers sort of calling out Kenji
for his catching.
This is not funny.
There is nothing funny about this. This is not even amusing.
...and now I'm here
Kenji has had one of the most seemingly awful starts to a year ever for starting C
it’s not just the extension, which if they have a plan to start platooning Kenji and Clement and it’s for reasonable money, say $14-16 mil isn’t too horrific, it’s the timing ARGHHHHHHH
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Say goodbye to the pitchers I guess.
Although that wouldn’t be such a bad thing I guess. :/.
Beware of the GTE.
by EnglishMariner on Apr 25, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Move like this will be all the more hilarious
when they lowball Felix and give him the A-Rod treatment.
Just an honest question
Maybe I’m wrong, but weren’t we kind of ok with this last season?
Is Clement’s recent progress the reason why this is awful? Or is Kenji really entering a huge decline?
FREE JEREMY REED!!
I'd say both, really.
Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum
by PositivePaul on Apr 25, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Kenji = old regressing catcher Clement = average 1B/DH
Beware of the GTE.
by EnglishMariner on Apr 25, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
We were not, actually.
We had a whole thread about how we should thank him for his service and open the door for him on his way out.
...and now I'm here
Horrible timing, Clement has gotten much better
and we don’t even know how much money it is. Plus Joh’s #s haven’t just been bad – he’s looked AWFUL at the plate
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Also
My Mariner fandom is at all all-time low right now. As fucked up as this sounds, I miss last seasons enjoyment because this year has been suck after suck.
Beware of the GTE.
Anyone consider
that this is a Yamauchi call?
Go Fo Broke!
Wow, good point!
I hadn’t though of that at all. You may be right.
I like midgets more than I should.
I thought ownership had always hesitated to get involved in baseball decisions
and it was the Lincolns and Armstrongs who were fucking it up
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Not when it comes to Japanese players.
I like midgets more than I should.
Don't care if it is
it’s one more nail in Bavasi’s coffin (boy does that thing have a lot of nails) either way.
there is no coffin
the mariners don’t bury their “yes” men.
Bavasi is likely ensured a spot in the ownership group forever. He’s helped the team make money, even when the club was craptastic.
Go Fo Broke!
I would not want to be drafted by the Mariners if I were any good at baseball...
Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum
I would want to be signed by them as a FA in my 30s.
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly.
Hey—I’m left-handed. I could probably figure out how to pitch! I’d provide fantastic clubhouse leadership. Pick Me! Pick Me! PIck Me!!!
Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum
by PositivePaul on Apr 25, 2008 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm really curious about the dollar figure.
Starting catcher money, or platoon/backup money?
I like midgets more than I should.
I don't know what I'm going to do if it's more than like $18 mil
and I sincerely hope it’s ~$14M
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I wonder if it's too late for me to start making a "Free Clement" sign for tonight?
I like midgets more than I should.
We should have just traded him to Baltimore
then he could be free like Adam Jones and George Sherrill…
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
If it's a cheap contract
and Joh becomes the backup catcher next season, fine.
Unfortunately, we all know Kenji’s extension is going to be an albatross.
I'm not concerned about the $$, really.
I’m not.
It’s probably enough to pay him as their starting catcher for the next 3 years, whether it’s $5 million a season or $8 million. And that’s what the problem is.
I can see a 1+1 deal, maybe, but 3 years is ridiculous!
Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum
by PositivePaul on Apr 25, 2008 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I doubt the money will be bad
the contract will probably be pretty fair. I still don’t think this is that awful, they could have done something cheaper, but I’m just “meh” on this deal.
FREE JEREMY REED!!
I thought it was April Fools Day again...
I can’t believe this fucking bastard. Enough with the whole firing nonsense… Bavasi needs to get shanked!
I really do wish I was a Rays fan now...
go ahead and change it Jeff
Hi!
Can we have Clement now?
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 25, 2008 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
We offered last year, you wanted to give us Rob Johnson instead.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 25, 2008 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Feel free to take him for almost anything.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 25, 2008 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Take Ichiro too
He deserves to play for a winner
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought about it
but didn’t dare say it for fear of the headline
“Mariners trade prized pitcher Felix Hernandez to Braves for SS Brent Lillibridge and SP Jair Jurrgasdjflens”
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Percival stays. Take Reyes, Glover, Haynes, and Jackson instead. That’s four players instead of one, and three arms, and we all know Bavasi knows his math, 3>1 except for when 1>3.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 25, 2008 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Knock yourself out.
We’re not using him. Take Adam Moore too so you have a sweet combo.
...and now I'm here
Okay - The rationale needs to be figured out here.
One possibility – They know they need Clement’s bat now. They know that if they do that, they basically ruin his chances of being a catcher in the longer run. So they are actually making a decision that, although bad, would make sense and would not quite be as insulting to one’s intelligence as this move appears to be.
...and now I'm here
OR
Yamauchi was getting his morning “massage” and read a small article in the paper and found out Johjima’s contract was expiring. That prompted him to ask his assistant to find out why a loyal employee like Johjima didn’t already have an extension.
This of course, happening within the last 5 hours.
I know we like to think rationally, but people who own us, typical do what they want with us.
Go Fo Broke!
I don't disagree with this.
However, this unfortunately is not an adequate answer to why this was done. That is not a rationale. So if we are trying to think of a reason for this trade, rather than the answer that this is some form of bukkake, that is the only one I can come up with.
...and now I'm here
I think the constant bukkake references make LL a tad bit more rapey than it needs to be.
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
It seems to lean a touch more that way everyday.
I like midgets more than I should.
I must not have been on enough recently.
I have not seen that reference on LL before. My bad for using an overused word.
...and now I'm here
I sure would think so.
Creep. (kidding)
I like midgets more than I should.
_______________________.
The reaction ‘round the blogosphere is hilarious. If Kenji hadn’t yet had an at-bat in ‘08, and if the annual total was near fair market value, everyone (read: EVERYONE) would be praising the extension. Kenji’s production in the first two years of his MLB career is nothing short of stellar, especially considering the league switch and the position.
3.5 weeks. Yeah, Kenji’s looked lost at the plate, but you can’t tell me that his BABIP will stay where its at. If anything, I’m glad to see that Joh’s struggled so far this season, as perhaps it’ll force him to transcend his main weakness at the plate – drawing a walk or two every now and then. Though the dollar amount hasn’t been leaked, yet – put me in the PRO-EXTENSION camp.
Oh, and I’m all for that DH/C platoon with Jazzy Jeff. Make it so.
Draft pick for letting Kenji walk
is far more valuable than hanging on to an aging catcher.
re: draft pick
you really trust what this org does with even highly-praised draft picks? just wait until we see Aumont become the next brandon morrow.
i’ll take joh, even as a platoon mate.
What, they haven't drafted badly at all...
Adam Jones, Tui is coming around, Morrow is a useful piece (even though he has been HORRIBLY mishandled up to this point), Butler and Tillman were good enough pieces to secure Bedard… Clement…
I’d like another draft pick, please
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
This team has done very well in the draft under Bavasi
Its what happens after they get drafted that is a clusterfuck
This is not the case.
As I said earlier, last year – while Kenji was doing well – we had an entire thread about how the popular opinion around here was that although he is great, we need to just thank him for his service and show him the door.
So… no. That is not what would have happened. Incorrect.
...and now I'm here
K.J. even with an ounce more of plate discipline...
...would seriously become a middle of the lineup threat in most lineups, let alone borderline all-star.
PECOTA: .274/.319/.395
They give him EqA’s between .250-.260 through the end of his extension. Which isn’t horrible – for a catcher, anyway – but, yeah, he’s not about to improve.
by Jeff Sullivan on Apr 25, 2008 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
i'm not predicting a breakout at age 32...
but if kenji’s dismal start to 2008 could force him to take an extra pitch (or even two) per at-bat, i’d like that catcher batting 8th in my lineup for the next two years (nothwithstanding clement’s availablity)
Yes, Kenji with more walks would be awesome
but what reason do we have to believe that Kenji’s going to get more selective? I mean, okay, old players tend to walk a little more, but that’s because their bats are slower, and that’s bad.
by Jeff Sullivan on Apr 25, 2008 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
The problem with this thought
is you’re banking on Kenji changing his approach at the plate. He’s always been a hacker, and there is no reason to believe that’s going to change.
I'm not positive how that addresses what I wrote.
But okay.
...and now I'm here
a ounce more of plate discipline would give Kenji about 12 walks a year
The Giants are the only team where Kenji would be a middle of the order threat.
FREE JEREMY REED!!
You're clearly ignoring everything we're saying
...and now I'm here
Kenji Johjima: 32, catcher
Done.
by Jeff Sullivan on Apr 25, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
i'm not saying that it will be a productive contract for all three years of the extension
just that its not as bad as everyone is taking it to be.
i’ll concur that this org has a problem saying goodbye to a productive player NEAR decline, but i’m not convinced kenji’s hit The Cliff
just trying to present an alternative perspective, here. if that’s not welcome, let me know.
That's not what you said.
You said this:
The reaction ‘round the blogosphere is hilarious. If Kenji hadn’t yet had an at-bat in ‘08, and if the annual total was near fair market value, everyone (read: EVERYONE) would be praising the extension.
And that is not true. We’re not being selectively biased here due to pessimism. We already said they should not sign him last year, while he was doing well.
...and now I'm here
You have to be a little more sure
that a player isn’t going to fall off a cliff before offering an extension like that. If an extension like this was offered to a 32 year old who doesn’t play catcher, it makes a little more sense. However, the fact alone that Kenji is a catcher makes this a bad extension in my mind.
here's my take
taking a chance on kenji (IF, the annual amount isnt prohibitive to being a player on the FA market for a 1B or LF), is okay because of the nature of the position. a productive C is hard to find. a reference to jeff’s original post (re: the workload), this scares me more than a numeric age 32.
i’m not saying if Bavasi called me and asked my opinion before signing the extension that i’d give an unqualified yes – just that its not as bad as i’m reading in some of the comments.
It's more the idiotic thought process that goes into extending a 32 year old catcher
if Billy Beane did this it would be “well maybe Billy Beane sees an angle we don’t” But Bavasi has a track record of ridiculously dumb things for stupid reasons, and eventually they all lead to Sean Green facing Nick Markakis in a close game with no thought even given to warming up a lefty.
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
lol
b/c bill bavasi has everything to do with in-game management, esp. late inning matchup decisions
If you were around here more,
you’d realize I’ve been bitching about that all day
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
You're the idiot who apparently thinks that we're against this move because of 25 days in April
Being patronising doesn’t work so well when you clearly have all the intellect of a badger turd.
by Graham MacAree on Apr 25, 2008 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
See this is why I compared you to Yahtzee
you charismatic stallion, you.
re: jeff's original post
2 of the 3 listed criteria (excluding the etc.’s) were age and 2008 performance (not just the numbers, but how he’s looked).
taking issue with the latter (even in only part of my post), ought not be a big deal.
isnt it appropriate to respond in such a manner? intuiting the perspective of the entire site, or its authors (re: “we’re against this move because of 25 days in april) shouldn’t be a necessary criterion for posting in a given thread.
I can respond however I like
Also fuck you
by Graham MacAree on Apr 25, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
assclown says what?
patronising
The word you’ve entered isn’t in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search bar above.
This message brought to you by www.areyousmarterthana5thgrader.com
Welcome to UK English
You really are criminally stupid, aren’t you?
by Graham MacAree on Apr 25, 2008 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, it's quite telling that you apparently felt the need to look up 'patronising' in a dictionary.
by Graham MacAree on Apr 25, 2008 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
This is going to be fun.
Do your worst Graham
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Apr 25, 2008 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, it's pretty obvious that the only foreign culture you've ever experienced
is a recurring yeast infection, so who am I to shatter your stereotypes about the British?
PS: “Polyene antifungals include nystatin and amphotericin B.” That might help you out.
by Graham MacAree on Apr 25, 2008 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
You've done alright so far
Please don’t go down this route :(
I actually think you'd have been fine
if it wasn’t for the ‘EVERYONE would have been okay with this’ thing.
Damn you =(
but Brian Roberts has hit at least one home run
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
In a vaccum, fine
but we all know this is not how the Mariners function. Until he goes Jeff Cirillio and gets booed they’re not going to reduce his PT. It’s likely Clement will be dealt for pennies on the dollar to plug some sort of need—a need that could be address in a much more efficient way.
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
You're clearly ignoring everything we're saying.
...and now I'm here
How many of these guys did anything
after age 32? And Kenji plays CATCHER for God’s sake
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Scouting matters too. He looks lost. Pitchers have found his hole and he's too hack-happy to wait for them to throw where he want it
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Apr 25, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Are you replying to the right comment?
I have no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t care how he’s performed over the past month. He’s getting old, and signing him to a three-year contract would be a mistake. I would have told you that a month ago. You’re making up opinions for people so you can argue against them.
Two years and 3.5 weeks is not a small sample size
therefore SSS is irrelevant – the point is not that Kenji has been bad this year, which he has been, it’s that he doesn’t project to contribute at a high level for the life of this contract, and we have Clement who is ready to go in AAA
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
But he's right.
You’re wrong.
...and now I'm here
You're not Graham so don't act like Graham
by Jeff Sullivan on Apr 25, 2008 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
? I did not write "wrong"
...and now I'm here
This is a little picky
Since I was just agreeing with someone and seeing as I’ve been presenting arguments everywhere else. But okay. Done.
...and now I'm here
I'm going to be picky if that's what it takes
I’m not singling you out, just trying to improve the general tone a little bit.
by Jeff Sullivan on Apr 25, 2008 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Kittens make everything better :)

Oh kittens… Is there no day you can’t brighten?
...and now I'm here
I'd love to wake up to a steaming mugfull of kitten
by Jeff Sullivan on Apr 25, 2008 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Awwwwwwwww cute!
look how well they get along!
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions
ahahah
I knew you were setting them up. Get them with the cute picture, and then out of nowhere, club their happy feelings to death.
the other angels fan [formerly newlocal]
I have created a space for this
please contribute this photo.
...and now I'm here
I want to keep it. Can I keep it?
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Apr 25, 2008 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
We all would, my friend.
We all would.
...and now I'm here
Well, we really just don't like morons here.
It’s gotten really bad lately and we don’t need you helping them.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Apr 25, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
TOS
he’s making a valid argument. Attack what he’s saying, not who he is.
by Jeff Sullivan on Apr 25, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
So is this what you meant by having to moderate more?
What we need is more beer threads. And delicious beer.
by eponymous_coward on Apr 25, 2008 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
This is part of what I mean
I’d really like to do away with the nasty tone of discussion. Graham’s the only one who can pull it off. It’s right there in the rules.
by Jeff Sullivan on Apr 25, 2008 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry, I just felt the arguement didn't need rehashing
and when I figured that when our reactions were called “hilarious” this guy wasn’t looking for a reasonable discussion.
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Ehh, it's not like he came in here acting like a dick
might as well give a semi-thoughtful response. It certainly wouldn’t be hard to do so. Kenji = catcher = 30+ = uh ohs
by Jeff Sullivan on Apr 25, 2008 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm tired of people chracterizing the entireblogosphere with one swoop
So I’ll try a more cordial version of my response:
The reaction ‘round the blogosphere is hilarious. If Kenji hadn’t yet had an at-bat in ‘08, and if the annual total was near fair market value, everyone (read: EVERYONE) would be praising the extension
This makes no sense.
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't like it either
but I’m just hyper sensitive about the discussion threads right now.
by Jeff Sullivan on Apr 25, 2008 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I got to remember I can't pull off the one word answer thing off in print
like I can in real life non internet situations, so maybe we should just not reply to stupid shit? I dunno. It’s tough.
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
seriously, JI
i usually like your contributions on these boards (is this sort of a generalization okay), but:
reply to stupid shit?[/quote]
come on, man. you’re better than an ad-hominem attack on a user who never posts.
No, we wouldn't.
An extension for ANY C to his year 35 season is risky. Go look at Piazza, Pudge and Varitek for examples. Here’s the thing: all THREE of them were better hitters at younger ages than Kenji is now, and better players.
Kenji is an above-average player about to hit his decline phase. The Mariners decided they needed to buy his decline phase. Of course, this being the franchise that let the useless carcass of Dan Wilson play for about 3 years too long, this is hardly surprising.
by eponymous_coward on Apr 25, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
It boils down to this
Catchers don’t last very long. They’re the halfbacks of Baseball, always undergoing physical stress that other players don’t have to face. He’s 32 now, and this is the age where catchers regress. That regression often takes the form of falling off a cliff.
A three year extension to a catcher who is 32 is not a good baseball decision.
Is Paul Allen
interested in buying an MLB franchise?
Rumor has it he inquired about ten years ago and they coldly told him it wasn't for sale.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Apr 25, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
However, if we want to start a campaign to get him interested....
Here’s a link that tells you where to send him fan mail
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Apr 25, 2008 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I just copied link location >:(
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Apr 25, 2008 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
As much as Allen is my favorite non-Felix human being alive
He did employ Bob Whitsitt to run 2 franchises into the ground for many years
But Dan was a goalie!
That means he’s a great catcher!
But I like Kenji
I know he’s had a bad start at the plate, but I feel like over the past couple years he’s been the only one who could get clutch hits when we needed them. Especially in ‘05… he seemed the only one in the lineup you could count on besides Ichiro.
(And, um, I have his jersey. So it’s nice to know that’s good for a couple more seasons.)
a front office can't make roster decisions
based on who people “like.” What they have done is give a three year extension to a catcher who is 32. Catchers begin declining at this age.
Do you want a repeat of what happened with Dan Wilson, who stayed three years too long?
The one small ray of sunshine (read:futile hope)...
I suspect that if Kenji DOES fall off of a cliff between now and 2011, he’ll pull a Kaz Sasaki and return to Japan to finish his career (hopefully without “falling down the stairs”). Japanese players do seem to do this.
It’s not a big one, though. :(
by eponymous_coward on Apr 25, 2008 2:17 PM PDT reply actions
Ugh
Like we discussed in the first Kenji Johjima extension possibility thread whenever the fuck that was, what we needed was a nice one year extension for 2010 where he could split time at C and DH with Clement to save their legs and get Clement acclimated, then at the end of the year, have Kenji Johjima appreciation day, and he’s on his way back to Japan as a rich celebrity going out on top. The End.
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
This is the stupidest thing I've seen from Bavasi since the Carlos Guillen trade
by Graham MacAree on Apr 25, 2008 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
that's an overstatement
the artist formerly known as Mere Tantalisers.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Apr 25, 2008 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
How?
I don’t think it will have the biggest impact, but it betrays incompetence on a massive scope when it comes to building a roster.
Failing to appreciate what cheap players at key positions can give you? Check
Failure to embrace the need for roster turnover in the coming seasons? Check
Failure to appreciate the likelihood of decline in catchers over 30? Check
They’ve managed to misjudge this strategically – how to build a roster. That much is obvious from the start. Furthermore, they appear to have made a tactical blunder in terms of player value on top of that, although one might possibly argue that Johjima would be worth more than Clement for the next 3 years if one were criminally stupid.
I hate this move because of who it blocks, I hate this move for what it does to my dream offseason, and I hate this move because it signifies that this front office still doesn’t have a goddamn clue.
by Graham MacAree on Apr 25, 2008 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
This is the exact reason I hated the Vidro trade
except that was this sort of incompetence done on a more massive scale.
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
As much as I love Doyle
I don’t see how he’s even close to having the sort of impact Clement at catcher gives you. This would have been like the Twins resigning Pierzynski with Mauer in AAA. (Not that Clement is that good of course, but it’s still a reasonable comparison)
by Graham MacAree on Apr 25, 2008 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I hated the trade because
1). Vidro is just about the worst DH I can think of
2). He’s ain’t cheap
3), This locks Raul into LF
4). There a free DHs everywhere that are much better than Vidro for free.
5) We traded Randy Winn to make room for a slower, lighter hitting version of him than can play 0 defense? Awesome.
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Joh extension
I just called the customer service and made a Bavasi complaint, the women working the phones was very nice and said every message is taken and there is accountability for them, 206-346-4000 is the number. The funny thing is the woman was questioning the move as well. Would it be nice to see what a smart GM would do with $117 mill payroll.
AWESOME
wait I posted this in the wrong thread, Not awesome. But really not horrible either, considering our 1B and DH now. I mean, I’m unhappy about it but it doesn’t really compare to my other beefs with the team. Its like getting a cold when you already have cancer. You’re like, man I hate colds, but also you think, well, I should just enjoy it cause soon I’ll be dead.
the artist formerly known as Mere Tantalisers.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Apr 25, 2008 2:19 PM PDT reply actions
So what're the odds they'll stick Clement at first
And use that to justify not making a run at Teixeira?
Our outfield's going to look awesome with Griffey and Ibanez in it
by Graham MacAree on Apr 25, 2008 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
until griffey tears his hamstring
and the it’ll look twice as busy with Willie out there
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Griffey has a hamstring to tear?
I thought they were already all torn to shreds to the point of having morphed into scar tissue anyway…
Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum
by PositivePaul on Apr 25, 2008 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe they'll go after Adam Dunn or Carl Crawford instead?
Think positive! :)
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
Why not?
From what I can tell, the M’s will be in need of atleast one and quite possibly 2 outfielders, and both Dunn and Crawford would be good pickups.
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
No they wouldn't
Crawford will be hideously overpaid and Dunn will be hideously overpaid with Ibanezitis
by Graham MacAree on Apr 25, 2008 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions
And Texiera won't be hideously overpaid?
I mean seriously, if you ignore BA the way some people keep telling me I’m supposed to, there’s virtually no difference in Dunn and Texiera’s stats.
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
Again, according to what I've been told, not
necessarily on this site, 1B defense is overrated.
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
if it true
it doesn’t change Dunn’s horribleness with the glove.
also, parks!
Tex’s last 3 OPS+: 144, 126, 150
Dunn’s last 3 OPS+: 141, 114, 136
going further to using linear weights adj for park and league
Tex’s last 3 year avg: 35 runs above average
-10 for playing 1B
0 to +5 for his glove
Tex is about 30 runs above average.
Dunn’s last 3 year avg: 25 runs above average
-5 for playing LF
-20 to -10 for his glove
Dunn is about 5 runs above average.
On top of all that, Dunn’s skills are far far far more likely to fall off a cliff than Tex’s.
Since when is Crawford even available?
by Jeff Sullivan on Apr 25, 2008 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Trying again...
since I forgot to make sure he didnt have any options on his current contract. Sorry.
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
Crawford won't be hideously overpaid
because he won’t be available. There are 2 more team options on his contract, at $8.25M and $10M. That’s a bargain for a player like him.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
Assuming you're right, are there any OF
you DO want to pick up?
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
It always depends on the price
There could be value found in someone like Jacque Jones or what have you, but by and large no, the FA OF market is full of landmines.
The prospect of such a move fills me with anticipatory glee
by Graham MacAree on Apr 25, 2008 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry.
Now that I think about it, maybe the M’s are planning to grab Juan Rivera. Actually, I find the prospect kind of frightening, because Rivera’s almost criminally underrated in most circles.
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
"Most circles"
evidently including the Angels front office…
Not sure why they didn’t just trade the guy, seeing as how he’s on pace for like 150 at-bats this season.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
'Most circles'
DEFINITELY including the Halos front office, though it has a little to do with him busting his leg in winterball last year.
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
by TheOptimist on Apr 25, 2008 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
upside
One of either Vidro or Sexson is not coming back for sure.
Go Fo Broke!
that's a given anyway
the artist formerly known as Mere Tantalisers.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Apr 25, 2008 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
they're already looking to limit Vidro's AB
and I’m willing to put money down on Sexson not coming back.
the artist formerly known as Mere Tantalisers.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Apr 25, 2008 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Are they really?
If so, why is Vidro batting fifth every night?
better than 2
and I expect to see him on the bench come July. But I’m an optimist.
the artist formerly known as Mere Tantalisers.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Apr 25, 2008 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Rosenthal says
That’s valuing him at about 1.5 wins above replacement. Seriously, that’s a bargain.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
You sure that's not his old contract?
Because IIRC his first contract was 3/16.5. Then of course with Kenji it wouldn’t be surprising if he just told them “just give me the same money at we’re good”
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
No, I believe that's the initial contract he signed
“Johjima, who joined Seattle in 2006 with a three-year, $16.5 million contract, is about to receive another three-year deal,”
We don’t know the terms of the new one.
you are correct
it’s referring to the old contract
Go Fo Broke!
OK, my bad
I didn’t actually read. Just looked at the dollar figures.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
that's not bad
He’ll be able to do that for a little while, and it will give the M’s to give Clement AB as DH while letting him catch as Kenji’s back up couple times a week. (dream scenario)
the artist formerly known as Mere Tantalisers.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Apr 25, 2008 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
That's the last contract:
The Mariners like catcher Kenji Johjima so much, they’re giving him another deal.Johjima, who joined Seattle in 2006 with a three-year, $16.5 million contract, is about to receive another three-year deal, according to major-league sources.
The financial terms of Johjima’s deal are not yet known. The Mariners will announce the contract on Friday afternoon.
So… don’t get your hopes up.
...and now I'm here
It's possible
but don’t get your hopes up
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
not surprised
The contract itself is fine, it’s extending a declining player for 3 seasons with a better player waiting in the wings that has people upset.
FREE JEREMY REED!!
While I think this move makes very little sense,
it does probably mean that Richie Sexson is leaving. So uh, it could be worse. Probably.
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
Richie's contract is up in 2008.
Jeff Clement is a very good hitter, probably a little better than league average at first. There is no reason to keep him in the minors. None. Thinking logically, (I realize that might be a problem with Bavasi) the org may have decided that keeping Clement at catcher risks injury to what is now their best prospect and has decided to simply convert him to 1B. If they’ve decided that Clement’s future is at 1B, this move isn’t so bad.
As to how things could be worse…they could have extended Johjima AND Sexson. >_>;
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
I think they'll resign sexson if he looks better than last year
only becuase the FO just keeps doing the dumbest things.
If they were making him move to first,
why in the hell is he catching twice as much in AAA as before? You would think they’s have him play 1st at least occasionally if they were planning on a switch.
I like midgets more than I should.
That IS a flaw in the crystal ball.
But still, I try to be positive. You guys could drop Sexson and Vidro, resign Ibanez as a DH, promote Wlad and splurge on Carl Crawford.
...It COULD happen. >_>
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
rephrase
What is the defensive success rate of catcher switching to 1B at the end of their careers?
Not thinking offense yet, just want to know the theoretical options
Go Fo Broke!
Not sure
but you should read the chapter in Moneyball devoted to Scott Hatteberg switching to 1B. It’s not as easy as everyone seems to think.
See: Piazza, Mike
I like midgets more than I should.
He'd be a very weak hitting 1st baseman with a below average glove?
I like midgets more than I should.
How this can be OK
1: The money is less than or equal to the initial contract
2: Johjima becomes the back-up next year, or late this year
3: The F.O. has decided to end any nascent Johjima vs. Washburn battle by coming down hard on the side of Johjima
4: Johjima has a Mike Redmond-style contact-hitting renaissance in his mid 30s thanks to lesser workload
5: M’s recognize that Felix loves throwing to the guy and want to keep him around as the King’s personal squire.
6: Team realizes it has some money to play with given Clement/Wlad’s salaries next year, cheap deals for Lopez/Betancourt.
7: Sexson’s gone.
8: Clement isn’t traded for relief arm (duh).
But most of them are pretty realisitc... except the part about Johjima becoming the backup
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Clement is the first one on the block
when the bullpen implodes in July.
That Clement won't be traded for a relief arm?
Brian Fuentes here we come!
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Kenji's contract extended
Clement becomes a DH
Management is happy
I love it when a plan comes together.

...wait.
So, everyone that had Kenji for April 25, you win.
Now, onto Raul and WFB…
by eponymous_coward on Apr 25, 2008 2:55 PM PDT reply actions
I had 2/24M and March 15th for Raul
boy was I wrong.
I have Raul for July 17th
I fhe continues to lay good you’d have to think he’d at least wait for this year’s Eric Brynes before he signs his new deal.
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Won't get an extension
Money is offered to Sexson instead
:(
BYE BYE BELTRE
VIA THE OPPOSITE THE BLOGOSPHERE THEORY
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe Ichiro told them to sign him or else
Maybe they’re best friends, and go out every night to Japanese steak houses to drink saki.
This had to be done after they did not sign his designated bodyguard Jason Ellison.
They are both the same age
I think they even played ball against eachother quite a few times if I’m not mistaken.
Same theory with Wlad and Felix, they are BFF, they can’t be seperated!
or else what?
he’d retire? He’s under contract.

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