It's Official
by Matthew on Apr 25, 2008 1:25 PM PDT
in Awful News
355 comments
Bill Bavasi announced today that the Mariners have agreed to terms with catcher Kenji Johjima on a three-year, $24M contract extension. Johjima, who was eligible for free agency at the end of this season, is now signed through 2011.
You all know why this such a horrible move. Clement, the likely draft compensation from letting Kenji walk, Kenji's age, Kenji's horrible start to 2008 (and not just his numbers, he looks bad), Kenji's workload, etc etc etc.
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Oh my fucking god.
I hate this team. This team needs to die now.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 1:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Is there such a thing as Bad Signing Thread Emotion?
If not, there should be.
by eponymous_coward on Apr 25, 2008 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holy shit
I mean….you think you’ve finally figured out how retarded a front office is, spent hours and hours bitching about it and figuring you’ve seen the worst.
Bavasi can always surprise you.
the other angels fan [formerly newlocal]
by Eyebrows on Apr 25, 2008 1:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Saw it coming a million miles away
don’t count on any of our good vets leaving ever
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can this team
be so bad at evaluating talent? Honestly, how can management be this bad?
by BrianL on Apr 25, 2008 1:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
So umm who do we get when we trade Clement now?
Also, why does the office always do the COMPLETE FUCKING OPPOSITE of what us bloggers request?
Beware of the GTE.
by EnglishMariner on Apr 25, 2008 1:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Bavasi must carry around a card that reads:
Always do the opposite of what the bloggers say
the other angels fan [formerly newlocal]
by Eyebrows on Apr 25, 2008 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank god for the Seahawks
Field Gulls says sign Mike Wahle. Hawks sign Mike Wahle 2 days later.
Field Gulls says sign T.J. Duckett. Hawks sign Duckett 2 days later.
One front office understands that blogs aren’t just a bunch of nerds but may actually have a point. And strangely enough, the local Seattle team that listens to the blogs…goes to the playoffs every year….weird.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Apr 25, 2008 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As much credit as we'd like to take
I don’t think there’s a particularly high correlation between listening to blogs and going to the playoffs…
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well obviously
I doubt Duckett and Wahle were signed because Field Gulls said so, but it’s nice to see a blog and a front office that have many of the same beliefs in talent evaluation.
FREE JEREMY REED!!
by MFAN on Apr 25, 2008 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He must be like a sub-god
Because if he was a true god, he wouldn’t let this happen.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Apr 25, 2008 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
God Ruskell create a rock so massive that he himself could not lift it?
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could Ruskell microwave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it?
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
by Phildopip on Apr 25, 2008 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the whole Mike Wahle, TJ Duckett thing was awesome
FREE JEREMY REED!!
by MFAN on Apr 25, 2008 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What. The. Fuck
I did not see this coming. Just goes to show you that Bill Bavasi lives life as if every day is Opposite Day.
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
by Phildopip on Apr 25, 2008 1:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'm sorry.
He has officially beaten Brian Sabean. Our 2009-2011 team is going to be abysmal.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 1:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
no one can beat Sabean
unless they flip Kenji to SF for Bocock.
FREE JEREMY REED!!
by MFAN on Apr 25, 2008 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
2010 Mariners = worse than any year with Sabean.
Expect a 50 win team.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say more.
We’ll get 34 from Felix… I’m confident in 17 more scraped out.
by Fett42 on Apr 25, 2008 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We will still have no defense.
Felix = 0-19 with a 1.49 FIP
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Felix? The guy that Bavasi will let walk?
Because he won’t win any games as a starter?
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lincoln, Armstrong, Bavasi and Mac
need to be fired. Now.
by BrianL on Apr 25, 2008 1:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Kickass
Now this means we can trade Clement for Griffey. Problem solved
by Robert on Apr 25, 2008 1:36 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
This is kinda funny considering there was just a rash of pitchers sort of calling out Kenji
for his catching.
by Matthew on Apr 25, 2008 1:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This is not funny.
There is nothing funny about this. This is not even amusing.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kenji has had one of the most seemingly awful starts to a year ever for starting C
it’s not just the extension, which if they have a plan to start platooning Kenji and Clement and it’s for reasonable money, say $14-16 mil isn’t too horrific, it’s the timing ARGHHHHHHH
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Say goodbye to the pitchers I guess.
Although that wouldn’t be such a bad thing I guess. :/.
Beware of the GTE.
by EnglishMariner on Apr 25, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Move like this will be all the more hilarious
when they lowball Felix and give him the A-Rod treatment.
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 1:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
hahahahaahaha
it’s funny because it’s true!
by Matthew on Apr 25, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just an honest question
Maybe I’m wrong, but weren’t we kind of ok with this last season?
Is Clement’s recent progress the reason why this is awful? Or is Kenji really entering a huge decline?
FREE JEREMY REED!!
by MFAN on Apr 25, 2008 1:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd say both, really.
Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum
by PositivePaul on Apr 25, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kenji = old regressing catcher Clement = average 1B/DH
Beware of the GTE.
by EnglishMariner on Apr 25, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We were not, actually.
We had a whole thread about how we should thank him for his service and open the door for him on his way out.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Horrible timing, Clement has gotten much better
and we don’t even know how much money it is. Plus Joh’s #s haven’t just been bad – he’s looked AWFUL at the plate
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
My Mariner fandom is at all all-time low right now. As fucked up as this sounds, I miss last seasons enjoyment because this year has been suck after suck.
Beware of the GTE.
by EnglishMariner on Apr 25, 2008 1:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Anyone consider
that this is a Yamauchi call?
Go Fo Broke!
by eknpdx on Apr 25, 2008 1:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow, good point!
I hadn’t though of that at all. You may be right.
I like midgets more than I should.
by Thingray on Apr 25, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats what I've been thinking all along
by Robert on Apr 25, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought ownership had always hesitated to get involved in baseball decisions
and it was the Lincolns and Armstrongs who were fucking it up
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not when it comes to Japanese players.
I like midgets more than I should.
by Thingray on Apr 25, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't care if it is
it’s one more nail in Bavasi’s coffin (boy does that thing have a lot of nails) either way.
by Matthew on Apr 25, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
there is no coffin
the mariners don’t bury their “yes” men.
Bavasi is likely ensured a spot in the ownership group forever. He’s helped the team make money, even when the club was craptastic.
Go Fo Broke!
by eknpdx on Apr 25, 2008 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would not want to be drafted by the Mariners if I were any good at baseball...
Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum
by PositivePaul on Apr 25, 2008 1:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I would want to be signed by them as a FA in my 30s.
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
Hey—I’m left-handed. I could probably figure out how to pitch! I’d provide fantastic clubhouse leadership. Pick Me! Pick Me! PIck Me!!!
Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum
by PositivePaul on Apr 25, 2008 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm really curious about the dollar figure.
Starting catcher money, or platoon/backup money?
I like midgets more than I should.
by Thingray on Apr 25, 2008 1:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't know what I'm going to do if it's more than like $18 mil
and I sincerely hope it’s ~$14M
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if it's too late for me to start making a "Free Clement" sign for tonight?
I like midgets more than I should.
by Thingray on Apr 25, 2008 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We should have just traded him to Baltimore
then he could be free like Adam Jones and George Sherrill…
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
I like midgets more than I should.
by Thingray on Apr 25, 2008 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it's a cheap contract
and Joh becomes the backup catcher next season, fine.
Unfortunately, we all know Kenji’s extension is going to be an albatross.
by BrianL on Apr 25, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not concerned about the $$, really.
I’m not.
It’s probably enough to pay him as their starting catcher for the next 3 years, whether it’s $5 million a season or $8 million. And that’s what the problem is.
I can see a 1+1 deal, maybe, but 3 years is ridiculous!
Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum
by PositivePaul on Apr 25, 2008 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt the money will be bad
the contract will probably be pretty fair. I still don’t think this is that awful, they could have done something cheaper, but I’m just “meh” on this deal.
FREE JEREMY REED!!
by MFAN on Apr 25, 2008 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was April Fools Day again...
I can’t believe this fucking bastard. Enough with the whole firing nonsense… Bavasi needs to get shanked!
by basebliman on Apr 25, 2008 1:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I really do wish I was a Rays fan now...
go ahead and change it Jeff
by basebliman on Apr 25, 2008 1:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hi!
Can we have Clement now?
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 25, 2008 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on how much Al Reyes means to you
by Robert on Apr 25, 2008 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We offered last year, you wanted to give us Rob Johnson instead.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 25, 2008 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Feel free to take him for almost anything.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 25, 2008 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Take Ichiro too
He deserves to play for a winner
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought about it
but didn’t dare say it for fear of the headline
“Mariners trade prized pitcher Felix Hernandez to Braves for SS Brent Lillibridge and SP Jair Jurrgasdjflens”
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Troy Percival wheeeeee
we’ll even throw in WLAD!
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Percival stays. Take Reyes, Glover, Haynes, and Jackson instead. That’s four players instead of one, and three arms, and we all know Bavasi knows his math, 3>1 except for when 1>3.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 25, 2008 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Knock yourself out.
We’re not using him. Take Adam Moore too so you have a sweet combo.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay - The rationale needs to be figured out here.
One possibility – They know they need Clement’s bat now. They know that if they do that, they basically ruin his chances of being a catcher in the longer run. So they are actually making a decision that, although bad, would make sense and would not quite be as insulting to one’s intelligence as this move appears to be.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 1:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
OR
Yamauchi was getting his morning “massage” and read a small article in the paper and found out Johjima’s contract was expiring. That prompted him to ask his assistant to find out why a loyal employee like Johjima didn’t already have an extension.
This of course, happening within the last 5 hours.
I know we like to think rationally, but people who own us, typical do what they want with us.
Go Fo Broke!
by eknpdx on Apr 25, 2008 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree with this.
However, this unfortunately is not an adequate answer to why this was done. That is not a rationale. So if we are trying to think of a reason for this trade, rather than the answer that this is some form of bukkake, that is the only one I can come up with.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the constant bukkake references make LL a tad bit more rapey than it needs to be.
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems to lean a touch more that way everyday.
I like midgets more than I should.
by Thingray on Apr 25, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I must not have been on enough recently.
I have not seen that reference on LL before. My bad for using an overused word.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's such a thing as too rapey?
the other angels fan [formerly newlocal]
by Eyebrows on Apr 25, 2008 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I sure would think so.
Creep. (kidding)
I like midgets more than I should.
by Thingray on Apr 25, 2008 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
_______________________.
The reaction ‘round the blogosphere is hilarious. If Kenji hadn’t yet had an at-bat in ‘08, and if the annual total was near fair market value, everyone (read: EVERYONE) would be praising the extension. Kenji’s production in the first two years of his MLB career is nothing short of stellar, especially considering the league switch and the position.
3.5 weeks. Yeah, Kenji’s looked lost at the plate, but you can’t tell me that his BABIP will stay where its at. If anything, I’m glad to see that Joh’s struggled so far this season, as perhaps it’ll force him to transcend his main weakness at the plate – drawing a walk or two every now and then. Though the dollar amount hasn’t been leaked, yet – put me in the PRO-EXTENSION camp.
Oh, and I’m all for that DH/C platoon with Jazzy Jeff. Make it so.
by dirka dirka on Apr 25, 2008 2:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Draft pick for letting Kenji walk
is far more valuable than hanging on to an aging catcher.
by BrianL on Apr 25, 2008 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: draft pick
you really trust what this org does with even highly-praised draft picks? just wait until we see Aumont become the next brandon morrow.
i’ll take joh, even as a platoon mate.
by dirka dirka on Apr 25, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What, they haven't drafted badly at all...
Adam Jones, Tui is coming around, Morrow is a useful piece (even though he has been HORRIBLY mishandled up to this point), Butler and Tillman were good enough pieces to secure Bedard… Clement…
I’d like another draft pick, please
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
read the post
i’m not criticizing their draft record, just the player management once in the system
by dirka dirka on Apr 25, 2008 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This team has done very well in the draft under Bavasi
Its what happens after they get drafted that is a clusterfuck
by Robert on Apr 25, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
again, this is what i said in the post
just look if you dont believe me
by dirka dirka on Apr 25, 2008 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is not the case.
As I said earlier, last year – while Kenji was doing well – we had an entire thread about how the popular opinion around here was that although he is great, we need to just thank him for his service and show him the door.
So… no. That is not what would have happened. Incorrect.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
K.J. even with an ounce more of plate discipline...
...would seriously become a middle of the lineup threat in most lineups, let alone borderline all-star.
by dirka dirka on Apr 25, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'll take it
PECOTA: .294/.351/.453
by dirka dirka on Apr 25, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, sorry.
that was 2007’s proj. i did a quick google search and didnt check the date.
by dirka dirka on Apr 25, 2008 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PECOTA: .274/.319/.395
They give him EqA’s between .250-.260 through the end of his extension. Which isn’t horrible – for a catcher, anyway – but, yeah, he’s not about to improve.
by Jeff on Apr 25, 2008 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not predicting a breakout at age 32...
but if kenji’s dismal start to 2008 could force him to take an extra pitch (or even two) per at-bat, i’d like that catcher batting 8th in my lineup for the next two years (nothwithstanding clement’s availablity)
by dirka dirka on Apr 25, 2008 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Kenji with more walks would be awesome
but what reason do we have to believe that Kenji’s going to get more selective? I mean, okay, old players tend to walk a little more, but that’s because their bats are slower, and that’s bad.
by Jeff on Apr 25, 2008 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with this thought
is you’re banking on Kenji changing his approach at the plate. He’s always been a hacker, and there is no reason to believe that’s going to change.
by BrianL on Apr 25, 2008 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not positive how that addresses what I wrote.
But okay.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
a ounce more of plate discipline would give Kenji about 12 walks a year
The Giants are the only team where Kenji would be a middle of the order threat.
FREE JEREMY REED!!
by MFAN on Apr 25, 2008 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one would be praising signing a declining catcher for three more years.
by Teej on Apr 25, 2008 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
3.5 weeks
i guess small sample size doesnt apply here, amirite?
by dirka dirka on Apr 25, 2008 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're clearly ignoring everything we're saying
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not saying that it will be a productive contract for all three years of the extension
just that its not as bad as everyone is taking it to be.
i’ll concur that this org has a problem saying goodbye to a productive player NEAR decline, but i’m not convinced kenji’s hit The Cliff
just trying to present an alternative perspective, here. if that’s not welcome, let me know.
by dirka dirka on Apr 25, 2008 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not what you said.
You said this:
The reaction ‘round the blogosphere is hilarious. If Kenji hadn’t yet had an at-bat in ‘08, and if the annual total was near fair market value, everyone (read: EVERYONE) would be praising the extension.
And that is not true. We’re not being selectively biased here due to pessimism. We already said they should not sign him last year, while he was doing well.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have to be a little more sure
that a player isn’t going to fall off a cliff before offering an extension like that. If an extension like this was offered to a 32 year old who doesn’t play catcher, it makes a little more sense. However, the fact alone that Kenji is a catcher makes this a bad extension in my mind.
by BrianL on Apr 25, 2008 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
here's my take
taking a chance on kenji (IF, the annual amount isnt prohibitive to being a player on the FA market for a 1B or LF), is okay because of the nature of the position. a productive C is hard to find. a reference to jeff’s original post (re: the workload), this scares me more than a numeric age 32.
i’m not saying if Bavasi called me and asked my opinion before signing the extension that i’d give an unqualified yes – just that its not as bad as i’m reading in some of the comments.
by dirka dirka on Apr 25, 2008 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's more the idiotic thought process that goes into extending a 32 year old catcher
if Billy Beane did this it would be “well maybe Billy Beane sees an angle we don’t” But Bavasi has a track record of ridiculously dumb things for stupid reasons, and eventually they all lead to Sean Green facing Nick Markakis in a close game with no thought even given to warming up a lefty.
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
b/c bill bavasi has everything to do with in-game management, esp. late inning matchup decisions
by dirka dirka on Apr 25, 2008 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you were around here more,
you’d realize I’ve been bitching about that all day
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're the idiot who apparently thinks that we're against this move because of 25 days in April
Being patronising doesn’t work so well when you clearly have all the intellect of a badger turd.
by Graham on Apr 25, 2008 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
See this is why I compared you to Yahtzee
you charismatic stallion, you.
by BrianL on Apr 25, 2008 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: jeff's original post
2 of the 3 listed criteria (excluding the etc.’s) were age and 2008 performance (not just the numbers, but how he’s looked).
taking issue with the latter (even in only part of my post), ought not be a big deal.
isnt it appropriate to respond in such a manner? intuiting the perspective of the entire site, or its authors (re: “we’re against this move because of 25 days in april) shouldn’t be a necessary criterion for posting in a given thread.
by dirka dirka on Apr 25, 2008 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can respond however I like
Also fuck you
by Graham on Apr 25, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
assclown says what?
patronising
The word you’ve entered isn’t in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search bar above.
This message brought to you by www.areyousmarterthana5thgrader.com
by dirka dirka on Apr 25, 2008 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome to UK English
You really are criminally stupid, aren’t you?
by Graham on Apr 25, 2008 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, it's quite telling that you apparently felt the need to look up 'patronising' in a dictionary.
by Graham on Apr 25, 2008 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ohhhh!
my knickers are in such a sad state!
by dirka dirka on Apr 25, 2008 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
noiiiiiice
damn, you got me hopping mad, you bloody bloke!
by dirka dirka on Apr 25, 2008 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is going to be fun.
Do your worst Graham
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Apr 25, 2008 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it's pretty obvious that the only foreign culture you've ever experienced
is a recurring yeast infection, so who am I to shatter your stereotypes about the British?
PS: “Polyene antifungals include nystatin and amphotericin B.” That might help you out.
by Graham on Apr 25, 2008 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've done alright so far
Please don’t go down this route :(
by BrianL on Apr 25, 2008 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually think you'd have been fine
if it wasn’t for the ‘EVERYONE would have been okay with this’ thing.
by marc w on Apr 25, 2008 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, so are we all cool now?
We’re cool?
Marc w: the good cop to Graham’s Robocop.
by marc w on Apr 25, 2008 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nick Markakis is 0-2 versus Green in his career
by marc w on Apr 25, 2008 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn you =(
but Brian Roberts has hit at least one home run
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In a vaccum, fine
but we all know this is not how the Mariners function. Until he goes Jeff Cirillio and gets booed they’re not going to reduce his PT. It’s likely Clement will be dealt for pennies on the dollar to plug some sort of need—a need that could be address in a much more efficient way.
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're clearly ignoring everything we're saying.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many of these guys did anything
after age 32? And Kenji plays CATCHER for God’s sake
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scouting matters too. He looks lost. Pitchers have found his hole and he's too hack-happy to wait for them to throw where he want it
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Apr 25, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you replying to the right comment?
I have no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t care how he’s performed over the past month. He’s getting old, and signing him to a three-year contract would be a mistake. I would have told you that a month ago. You’re making up opinions for people so you can argue against them.
by Teej on Apr 25, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two years and 3.5 weeks is not a small sample size
therefore SSS is irrelevant – the point is not that Kenji has been bad this year, which he has been, it’s that he doesn’t project to contribute at a high level for the life of this contract, and we have Clement who is ready to go in AAA
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah, that was fun.
thanks for playing. well-researched contribution, mate.
by dirka dirka on Apr 25, 2008 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he's right.
You’re wrong.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're not Graham so don't act like Graham
by Jeff on Apr 25, 2008 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
? I did not write "wrong"
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a little picky
Since I was just agreeing with someone and seeing as I’ve been presenting arguments everywhere else. But okay. Done.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to be picky if that's what it takes
I’m not singling you out, just trying to improve the general tone a little bit.
by Jeff on Apr 25, 2008 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kittens make everything better :)
Oh kittens… Is there no day you can’t brighten?
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to wake up to a steaming mugfull of kitten
by Jeff on Apr 25, 2008 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awwwwwwwww cute!
look how well they get along!
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ahahah
I knew you were setting them up. Get them with the cute picture, and then out of nowhere, club their happy feelings to death.
the other angels fan [formerly newlocal]
by Eyebrows on Apr 25, 2008 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have created a space for this
please contribute this photo.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want to keep it. Can I keep it?
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Apr 25, 2008 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We all would, my friend.
We all would.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, we really just don't like morons here.
It’s gotten really bad lately and we don’t need you helping them.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Apr 25, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
TOS
he’s making a valid argument. Attack what he’s saying, not who he is.
by Jeff on Apr 25, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So is this what you meant by having to moderate more?
What we need is more beer threads. And delicious beer.
by eponymous_coward on Apr 25, 2008 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is part of what I mean
I’d really like to do away with the nasty tone of discussion. Graham’s the only one who can pull it off. It’s right there in the rules.
by Jeff on Apr 25, 2008 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, I just felt the arguement didn't need rehashing
and when I figured that when our reactions were called “hilarious” this guy wasn’t looking for a reasonable discussion.
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ehh, it's not like he came in here acting like a dick
might as well give a semi-thoughtful response. It certainly wouldn’t be hard to do so. Kenji = catcher = 30+ = uh ohs
by Jeff on Apr 25, 2008 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm tired of people chracterizing the entireblogosphere with one swoop
So I’ll try a more cordial version of my response:
The reaction ‘round the blogosphere is hilarious. If Kenji hadn’t yet had an at-bat in ‘08, and if the annual total was near fair market value, everyone (read: EVERYONE) would be praising the extension
This makes no sense.
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't like it either
but I’m just hyper sensitive about the discussion threads right now.
by Jeff on Apr 25, 2008 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
duly noted.
i’ll refrain from such comments in the future.
by dirka dirka on Apr 25, 2008 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I got to remember I can't pull off the one word answer thing off in print
like I can in real life non internet situations, so maybe we should just not reply to stupid shit? I dunno. It’s tough.
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously, JI
i usually like your contributions on these boards (is this sort of a generalization okay), but:
reply to stupid shit?[/quote]come on, man. you’re better than an ad-hominem attack on a user who never posts.
by dirka dirka on Apr 25, 2008 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, we wouldn't.
An extension for ANY C to his year 35 season is risky. Go look at Piazza, Pudge and Varitek for examples. Here’s the thing: all THREE of them were better hitters at younger ages than Kenji is now, and better players.
Kenji is an above-average player about to hit his decline phase. The Mariners decided they needed to buy his decline phase. Of course, this being the franchise that let the useless carcass of Dan Wilson play for about 3 years too long, this is hardly surprising.
by eponymous_coward on Apr 25, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It boils down to this
Catchers don’t last very long. They’re the halfbacks of Baseball, always undergoing physical stress that other players don’t have to face. He’s 32 now, and this is the age where catchers regress. That regression often takes the form of falling off a cliff.
A three year extension to a catcher who is 32 is not a good baseball decision.
by BrianL on Apr 25, 2008 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Paul Allen
interested in buying an MLB franchise?
by BrianL on Apr 25, 2008 2:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Rumor has it he inquired about ten years ago and they coldly told him it wasn't for sale.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Apr 25, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
However, if we want to start a campaign to get him interested....
Here’s a link that tells you where to send him fan mail
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Apr 25, 2008 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just copied link location >:(
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Apr 25, 2008 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As much as Allen is my favorite non-Felix human being alive
He did employ Bob Whitsitt to run 2 franchises into the ground for many years
by Robert on Apr 25, 2008 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kenji is our new Dan Wilson
I hated Dan Wilson
by Robert on Apr 25, 2008 2:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
But Dan was a goalie!
That means he’s a great catcher!
by BrianL on Apr 25, 2008 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But I like Kenji
I know he’s had a bad start at the plate, but I feel like over the past couple years he’s been the only one who could get clutch hits when we needed them. Especially in ‘05… he seemed the only one in the lineup you could count on besides Ichiro.
(And, um, I have his jersey. So it’s nice to know that’s good for a couple more seasons.)
by Luscious James on Apr 25, 2008 2:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
a front office can't make roster decisions
based on who people “like.” What they have done is give a three year extension to a catcher who is 32. Catchers begin declining at this age.
Do you want a repeat of what happened with Dan Wilson, who stayed three years too long?
by BrianL on Apr 25, 2008 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The one small ray of sunshine (read:futile hope)...
I suspect that if Kenji DOES fall off of a cliff between now and 2011, he’ll pull a Kaz Sasaki and return to Japan to finish his career (hopefully without “falling down the stairs”). Japanese players do seem to do this.
It’s not a big one, though. :(
by eponymous_coward on Apr 25, 2008 2:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
Like we discussed in the first Kenji Johjima extension possibility thread whenever the fuck that was, what we needed was a nice one year extension for 2010 where he could split time at C and DH with Clement to save their legs and get Clement acclimated, then at the end of the year, have Kenji Johjima appreciation day, and he’s on his way back to Japan as a rich celebrity going out on top. The End.
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the stupidest thing I've seen from Bavasi since the Carlos Guillen trade
by Graham on Apr 25, 2008 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's an overstatement
the artist formerly known as Mere Tantalisers.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Apr 25, 2008 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How?
I don’t think it will have the biggest impact, but it betrays incompetence on a massive scope when it comes to building a roster.
Failing to appreciate what cheap players at key positions can give you? Check
Failure to embrace the need for roster turnover in the coming seasons? Check
Failure to appreciate the likelihood of decline in catchers over 30? Check
They’ve managed to misjudge this strategically – how to build a roster. That much is obvious from the start. Furthermore, they appear to have made a tactical blunder in terms of player value on top of that, although one might possibly argue that Johjima would be worth more than Clement for the next 3 years if one were criminally stupid.
I hate this move because of who it blocks, I hate this move for what it does to my dream offseason, and I hate this move because it signifies that this front office still doesn’t have a goddamn clue.
by Graham on Apr 25, 2008 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the exact reason I hated the Vidro trade
except that was this sort of incompetence done on a more massive scale.
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As much as I love Doyle
I don’t see how he’s even close to having the sort of impact Clement at catcher gives you. This would have been like the Twins resigning Pierzynski with Mauer in AAA. (Not that Clement is that good of course, but it’s still a reasonable comparison)
by Graham on Apr 25, 2008 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hated the trade because
1). Vidro is just about the worst DH I can think of
2). He’s ain’t cheap
3), This locks Raul into LF
4). There a free DHs everywhere that are much better than Vidro for free.
5) We traded Randy Winn to make room for a slower, lighter hitting version of him than can play 0 defense? Awesome.
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joh extension
I just called the customer service and made a Bavasi complaint, the women working the phones was very nice and said every message is taken and there is accountability for them, 206-346-4000 is the number. The funny thing is the woman was questioning the move as well. Would it be nice to see what a smart GM would do with $117 mill payroll.
by talkbaseball on Apr 25, 2008 2:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
AWESOME
wait I posted this in the wrong thread, Not awesome. But really not horrible either, considering our 1B and DH now. I mean, I’m unhappy about it but it doesn’t really compare to my other beefs with the team. Its like getting a cold when you already have cancer. You’re like, man I hate colds, but also you think, well, I should just enjoy it cause soon I’ll be dead.
the artist formerly known as Mere Tantalisers.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Apr 25, 2008 2:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
So what're the odds they'll stick Clement at first
And use that to justify not making a run at Teixeira?
by Graham on Apr 25, 2008 2:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm betting Clement is going to become a DH.
by BrianL on Apr 25, 2008 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our outfield's going to look awesome with Griffey and Ibanez in it
by Graham on Apr 25, 2008 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
until griffey tears his hamstring
and the it’ll look twice as busy with Willie out there
by JI on Apr 25, 2008 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Griffey has a hamstring to tear?
I thought they were already all torn to shreds to the point of having morphed into scar tissue anyway…
Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum
by PositivePaul on Apr 25, 2008 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they'll go after Adam Dunn or Carl Crawford instead?
Think positive! :)
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
by TheOptimist on Apr 25, 2008 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not?
From what I can tell, the M’s will be in need of atleast one and quite possibly 2 outfielders, and both Dunn and Crawford would be good pickups.
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
by TheOptimist on Apr 25, 2008 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No they wouldn't
Crawford will be hideously overpaid and Dunn will be hideously overpaid with Ibanezitis
by Graham on Apr 25, 2008 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Texiera won't be hideously overpaid?
I mean seriously, if you ignore BA the way some people keep telling me I’m supposed to, there’s virtually no difference in Dunn and Texiera’s stats.
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
by TheOptimist on Apr 25, 2008 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, according to what I've been told, not
necessarily on this site, 1B defense is overrated.
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
by TheOptimist on Apr 25, 2008 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if it true
it doesn’t change Dunn’s horribleness with the glove.
by Matthew on Apr 25, 2008 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
also, parks!
Tex’s last 3 OPS+: 144, 126, 150
Dunn’s last 3 OPS+: 141, 114, 136
by Matthew on Apr 25, 2008 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
going further to using linear weights adj for park and league
Tex’s last 3 year avg: 35 runs above average
-10 for playing 1B
0 to +5 for his glove
Tex is about 30 runs above average.
Dunn’s last 3 year avg: 25 runs above average
-5 for playing LF
-20 to -10 for his glove
Dunn is about 5 runs above average.
On top of all that, Dunn’s skills are far far far more likely to fall off a cliff than Tex’s.
by Matthew on Apr 25, 2008 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since I forgot to make sure that he didn
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
by TheOptimist on Apr 25, 2008 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trying again...
since I forgot to make sure he didnt have any options on his current contract. Sorry.
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
by TheOptimist on Apr 25, 2008 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crawford won't be hideously overpaid
because he won’t be available. There are 2 more team options on his contract, at $8.25M and $10M. That’s a bargain for a player like him.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Apr 26, 2008 6:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adam Dunn is going to be an albatross.
by Matthew on Apr 25, 2008 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Assuming you're right, are there any OF
you DO want to pick up?
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
by TheOptimist on Apr 25, 2008 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It always depends on the price
There could be value found in someone like Jacque Jones or what have you, but by and large no, the FA OF market is full of landmines.
by Matthew on Apr 25, 2008 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe you could pick up Hinske on the cheap.
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
by TheOptimist on Apr 25, 2008 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The prospect of such a move fills me with anticipatory glee
by Graham on Apr 25, 2008 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry.
Now that I think about it, maybe the M’s are planning to grab Juan Rivera. Actually, I find the prospect kind of frightening, because Rivera’s almost criminally underrated in most circles.
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
by TheOptimist on Apr 25, 2008 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Most circles"
evidently including the Angels front office…
Not sure why they didn’t just trade the guy, seeing as how he’s on pace for like 150 at-bats this season.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 25, 2008 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
'Most circles'
DEFINITELY including the Halos front office, though it has a little to do with him busting his leg in winterball last year.
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
by TheOptimist on Apr 25, 2008 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
upside
One of either Vidro or Sexson is not coming back for sure.
Go Fo Broke!
by eknpdx on Apr 25, 2008 2:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
that's a given anyway
the artist formerly known as Mere Tantalisers.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Apr 25, 2008 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
they're already looking to limit Vidro's AB
and I’m willing to put money down on Sexson not coming back.
the artist formerly known as Mere Tantalisers.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Apr 25, 2008 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are they really?
If so, why is Vidro batting fifth every night?
by BrianL on Apr 25, 2008 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
better than 2
and I expect to see him on the bench come July. But I’m an optimist.
the artist formerly known as Mere Tantalisers.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Apr 25, 2008 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rosenthal says
That’s valuing him at about 1.5 wins above replacement. Seriously, that’s a bargain.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Apr 25, 2008 2:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You sure that's not his old contract?
Because IIRC his first contract was 3/16.5. Then of course with Kenji it wouldn’t be surprising if he just told them “just give me the same money at we’re good”
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I believe that's the initial contract he signed
“Johjima, who joined Seattle in 2006 with a three-year, $16.5 million contract, is about to receive another three-year deal,”
We don’t know the terms of the new one.
by marc w on Apr 25, 2008 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are correct
it’s referring to the old contract
Go Fo Broke!
by eknpdx on Apr 25, 2008 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, my bad
I didn’t actually read. Just looked at the dollar figures.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Apr 25, 2008 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's not bad
He’ll be able to do that for a little while, and it will give the M’s to give Clement AB as DH while letting him catch as Kenji’s back up couple times a week. (dream scenario)
the artist formerly known as Mere Tantalisers.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Apr 25, 2008 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the last contract:
The Mariners like catcher Kenji Johjima so much, they’re giving him another deal.Johjima, who joined Seattle in 2006 with a three-year, $16.5 million contract, is about to receive another three-year deal, according to major-league sources.
The financial terms of Johjima’s deal are not yet known. The Mariners will announce the contract on Friday afternoon.
So… don’t get your hopes up.
...and now I'm here
by Librocrat on Apr 25, 2008 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's possible
but don’t get your hopes up
by seattlebruin on Apr 25, 2008 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not surprised
The contract itself is fine, it’s extending a declining player for 3 seasons with a better player waiting in the wings that has people upset.
FREE JEREMY REED!!
by MFAN on Apr 25, 2008 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
While I think this move makes very little sense,
it does probably mean that Richie Sexson is leaving. So uh, it could be worse. Probably.
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
by TheOptimist on Apr 25, 2008 2:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i'm not arguing that you are right or wrong, but could explain
by InSpokane on Apr 25, 2008 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Richie's contract is up in 2008.
Jeff Clement is a very good hitter, probably a little better than league average at first. There is no reason to keep him in the minors. None. Thinking logically, (I realize that might be a problem with Bavasi) the org may have decided that keeping Clement at catcher risks injury to what is now their best prospect and has decided to simply convert him to 1B. If they’ve decided that Clement’s future is at 1B, this move isn’t so bad.
As to how things could be worse…they could have extended Johjima AND Sexson. >_>;
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
by TheOptimist on Apr 25, 2008 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they'll resign sexson if he looks better than last year
only becuase the FO just keeps doing the dumbest things.
by InSpokane on Apr 25, 2008 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I cannot rule this out.
Which makes my soul hurt.
by Matthew on Apr 25, 2008 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they were making him move to first,
why in the hell is he catching twice as much in AAA as before? You would think they’s have him play 1st at least occasionally if they were planning on a switch.
I like midgets more than I should.
by Thingray on Apr 25, 2008 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That IS a flaw in the crystal ball.
But still, I try to be positive. You guys could drop Sexson and Vidro, resign Ibanez as a DH, promote Wlad and splurge on Carl Crawford.
...It COULD happen. >_>
*Visiting Angels fan* Never give up, never surrender!
by TheOptimist on Apr 25, 2008 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there anything to suggest that Johjima would suck at 1B?
Go Fo Broke!
by eknpdx on Apr 25, 2008 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs