Billy Beane is a freaking genius
by Llewdor on Apr 24, 2008 4:10 PM PDT
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2006 - He ressurects Frank Thomas's career at a low price.
2007 - He lets some team other than Oakland pay the new high price for Frank's talents, pocketing a draft pick in return.
2007 - He spends draft pick on Corey Brown, currently hitting .316/.404/.592 in the Midwest League.
2008 - He signs Frank to prorated league-minimum contract following his release.
2008 - He trades Frank to contender for prospects at deadline.
For the price of a low contract and part of a minimum contract over 3 years, Beane has managed to get 1+ years of solid DH production plus at least one prospect.
Playing in the AL West is getting embarrassing.
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Brian Sabean is a better GM than Billy Beane
Brian Sabean has a good defensive player at shortstop.
by seattlebruin on Apr 24, 2008 4:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with everything
except your prediction of trading him at the deadline. While I do think that’s an option, if the A’s luck keeps up and they keep winning like they have been, I think Billy will hold on to Thomas and make a run at the west.
the other angels fan [formerly newlocal]
by Eyebrows on Apr 24, 2008 4:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but if he gets classified as a Type A or B
which seems pretty likely if he hasn’t completely gone off the cliff, the A’s will get a pick in return anyway.
by seattlebruin on Apr 24, 2008 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they offer him arb
which I’m not sure, but I think would use his Tor + Oak salary as the benchmark.
by Matthew on Apr 24, 2008 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea how that would work.
I’m suddenly hoping it happens just so I can find out.
by Llewdor on Apr 24, 2008 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quick question on the procedures there, Matthew
If the A’s offer Thomas arb, and he accepts are both the team and the player bound to the arbitrator’s decision for salary the next season? Also, is the player tradeable during that season?
What are the chances of a player such as Thomas accepting arbitration in that case? I would think it would be decently high, since it’s not too likely anyone is really anxious to sign him unless he just has a monster rest of the season.
by seattlebruin on Apr 24, 2008 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes on both counts
As to the chances, who knows for now.
by Matthew on Apr 24, 2008 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amendment
Actually, I think the team can offer arb and the player can accept and still have them independently work out a contract avoiding an arbitration hearing.
However, given that all the player has to do is wait until the arb hearing to guarantee at least 80% of his previous year salary, you’re not going to see the player cutting the team any slack.
by Matthew on Apr 24, 2008 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But once a team offers arbitration to a player
they’re obligated to sign him at some level, either at the arbitrator’s decided price or in some separate agreement?
by seattlebruin on Apr 24, 2008 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
but if a player signed to a one-year arb contract is released before a certain date (March 15?) the team isn’t on the hook for the full salary.
So, hypothetically, A’s offer arbitration to Thomas. He accepts. Arbitrator decides he gets $8 million a year. A’s then cut Thomas in spring. A’s are out about $1.7 million.
It’s not an enormous risk for the team.
Honestly, though, guys? I think this is his last year. So while I agree that the sequence worked out damn well for Oakland (especially given how much I like Corey Brown as a prospect), I think what you’ll see from him this year is probably all he’ll do for the team in his second go-round.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Apr 24, 2008 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Assuming the player accepts the offer of arbitration, yes.
By offering arbitration, you’ve made a binding commitment to the player which can only be avoided if the player refuses the offer.
by Llewdor on Apr 24, 2008 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both the Team and Players usually try to avoid arbitration
so the parties almost always agree to a contract before the arbitration hearing. A lot of times, as you can guess, they just settlle in the middle. The risk of Arbitration hearings for both sides is that if they choose the team’s figure, the player will get shafted, and the team will get shafted if the judge chooses the Player.
But one of the biggest reasons why the parties do not like going to Arbitration is basically the team has to argue why the player isn’t worth X money. So basically you are degrading, insulting, whatever, your own player, and it isn’t a pleasant process.
by Zonis on Apr 24, 2008 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 80% rule only applies to pre FA players
ie guys with less than 6 years of service time. It does not apply to FA players.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Apr 25, 2008 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bavasi is clearly better
2007 – Sign Jose Guillen
2007 – Decline option on, release Jose Guillen without arbitration losing prospects or a cheap corner OF
2008 – Brad Wilkerson
by Fett42 on Apr 24, 2008 5:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Does Thomas still get his 10mil from Toronto?
or is that void now that he has a new contract?
the artist formerly known as Mere Tantalisers.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Apr 24, 2008 8:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The contract
says the $10m option for 2009 is vested if he gets 1,000 plate appearances between 2007 and 2008. (He had 624 in 2007, so he needed 376 more.)
The question is how that clause is worded. Does it say 1,000 PAs with Toronto, or 1,000 PAs anywhere?
My guess is it says 1,000 PAs in Toronto—not because I know about the contract, but because I don’t think Ricciardi would have cut him otherwise. Ricciardi has a history of sweetening contracts with final-year vesting options that he has no intention of ever picking up. When they wrote the contract, they probably figured there’s no way Frank Thomas would stay healthy on artificial turf for two full years so there was little risk of him actually getting 1,000 PAs. But now that Frank was healthy for one full season, J.P. is thinking, “Oh shit, what if he really does get all 1,000 PAs?”
So that’s why they benched him and that’s why they cut him. Of course they’re not going to admit it was about money, but of course it was about money.
You might think Ricciardi is a fink for that, but he’s not a moron. He knows damn well what the contract says. By cutting him, he’s eating the bulk of the $9 million for this year. The only reason he would do that is if it’s going to save him $10 million next year. Ergo, I conclude the contract must be written in such a way that getting the rest of the PA’s in Oakland will not trigger the option. Because if it did, they never would have cut him in the first place.
formerly known as mdl
by iglew on Apr 24, 2008 9:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You're right
I read yesterday that the PA trigger no longer exists since he went to Oakland. So they’re only on the hook for the 370k or whatever, and the Blue Jays pay the rest of the $10 mil for this year. There is no longer a 2009 option in the contract.
the other angels fan [formerly newlocal]
by Eyebrows on Apr 25, 2008 6:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For example,
take a look at the Cots page for Toronto:
Greg Zaun has a $3.75m option for 2009 that vests if he plays 270 games in 2007 and 2008. Do you think Zaun is going to see those 270 games? I sure don’t.
Rod Barajas has a $2.5m option for 2009 but the team can buy it out for $0.5 million, which I assume they will.
And don’t forget that Toronto gave Bengie Molina a $7.5 million option for 2007, which they were able to buy out for $0.5 million.
That’s standard operating procedure for Ricciardi. The only difference is that with Frank he got caught in a situation where the seemingly improbable vesting option might actually vest, so he had to bail out. With Frank’s early slump, now is the time to do it. It looks bad, but not nearly as bad as it would have looked if they cut him in June and he was hitting well.
formerly known as mdl
by iglew on Apr 24, 2008 9:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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