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Bedard's degenerative hip condition

Tiny by cougfan on Comment 321 comments

Bedard hip analysis

Thanks to THT. Kind of ironic that AJ's worry was a degenerative hip. Did we forget to do a physical on Bedard? Can we have AJ and GS52 back yet?

Bad hips are a bitch. Bad hips are a bitch. Bad hips are a bitch. Bad hips are a bitch. Bad hips are a bitch. Bad hips are a bitch. Bad hips are a bitch. Bad hips are a bitch. Bad hips are a bitch.

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Yeah, no.

It’s a tear. And even if we didn’t know that already, arthritis would have been found in a nuclear scan during his physical.

by Matthew on Apr 17, 2008 12:02 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

According to my boss, it was a conspiracy by Angelos

Apparently, he must’ve knew about the whole thing, but accused Adam Jones of having it so that would distract the marienrs, and not being able to properly inspect Bedard since they were so eager to get the deal done as quickly as possible and they were trying hard to convince Angelos there was nothing wrong with Jones.

Don’t know if my boss is right, but god damn he’s smart, so I would have to believe him on this one.

by Fin on Apr 17, 2008 12:11 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't know if I'm super sensitive about seeing the video

but that is painful to watch.

In the words of Dave Chappelle, as Rick James: “Fuck Yo’ Hip!”

I fucking hate you Mariners

by kentroyals5 on Apr 17, 2008 12:25 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow

I’m surprised and disappointed that THT would even publish such an article. An article where the expert could not even spell tendInitis NOT tendOnitis correctly. TendinItis means inflammation of the tendon, Just as bursitis means inflammation of the bursa. TendOnitis has no meaning.

First, he’s trying to draw conclusions about degenerative injury with ONE web video. Then, he starts jumping to conclusions based not on actually talking to the guy, or the guys doctors / trainers, or at least a source in the org, but apparently on reports in newspapers / websites, which are often imprecise at best about injuries.

“With only the extremely vague description of “hip inflammation”, you can see how I would have some trouble writing up a comprehensive article regarding his condition.”

Err, so how about not writing an article then?

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Apr 17, 2008 2:26 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You can spell it either way...

Resident biology major to the rescue.

by dkulich on Apr 17, 2008 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm being anal here

but tendOnitis, strictly speaking, has no meaning. Everyone understands that it means tendinItis, because it is constantly misused.

it is like saying “it’s” and “its” is the same, since everyone understands what you mean, Or “you’re” and “your”.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Apr 17, 2008 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow. I don't even agree with the article, but this is vastly overstated

A) He doesn’t attempt to draw any conclusions. He says multiple times that’s he’s just giving his opinion. When you use phrases like “to my knowledge” and “my initial impression”, you are not stating conclusions. He says many times that these are possible issues, or could be an issue

B) You don’t know how many videos he watched. He embedded one, he could have watched many more.

C) Talking to Bedard’s trainers/doctors/team would be pointless. HIPAA.

I didn’t agree with the arthritis angle, but I find nothing wrong with the article’s tone.

by Matthew on Apr 17, 2008 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

HIPAA

Not if you’re with the Cubs or Astros apparently.

Go Fo Broke!

by eknpdx on Apr 17, 2008 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does anyone smart here know how the HIPAA laws work with player injuries?

I’d think the players would have to sign off on a release form allowing their injuries to be made public.

by Jed MC on Apr 17, 2008 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But that would be dangerous for the team.

It would be illegal to pressure your players into signing such a waiver, so teams would probably avoid doing that for fear or beng accusing of having pressured players.

by Llewdor on Apr 17, 2008 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't believe HIPAA allows waivers

I think it’s pretty ironclad. I work at a health-insurance provider and I’m digging through the regs trying to find something, but I’m pretty sure that PHA is locked down pretty tight.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

PHI, rather

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm mostly curious because I'd be really pissed at my job

if my employer released my injury history to the general public. I know it is way different with professional athletes considering their health is vital to their employment and I’m sure in the general player’s contract there are provisions that allow a team to see their medical history. But, it seems like privacy rights are violated by releasing any info to the public without the player’s permission.

by Jed MC on Apr 17, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He says,

“What I saw when I first viewed the video on YouTube was so glaringly evident that I can’t believe nobody else saw it first (especially Baltimore and Seattle fans – shame on you)!
“

“Now take a look at this video clip (thank you YouTube and user jamessutherland23):”

That sounds to me like all he did was watch the YouTube video.

Yes, he does not draw a conclusion. He spends much of the article speculating, and then not denying his speculation. That’s like saying “I do not believe XXX is using performance enhancing substances, but if he were it could explain blah blah blah”.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Apr 17, 2008 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair, Bedard's motion does put all his weight on his left hip.

Whether or not that means anything is the issue, but he’s got a point.

Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.

by BrettJMiller on Apr 17, 2008 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly, what's your deal with that?

It’s a fantasy blog. People wanted an opinion on what Bedard’s injury might be. He gave it. He coaches it many many times in conditionals.

by Matthew on Apr 17, 2008 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, misspelling = poor analysis

the guy who wrote this article has a pretty good blog on baseball injuries (i won’t advertise it here though). he actually called bedard going on the DL when the M’s were still being super-optimistic about him. he has no reason to be anything but objective, while the M’s have every reason to downplay the severity of the injury.

by claskowski on Apr 17, 2008 7:38 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It's Not

Because he spelled tendinitis with an “o”.

Or something…

by tait644 on Apr 17, 2008 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

because it's on the internets!

Anything found on a 5-minute trip through the internets is better than anything gained through years of exhaustive study, practical experience, and thousands of case studies, right?

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm basically wondering

how the baseball biomechanics community appears to be several decades ahead of the academic biomechanics crew. It does indeed seem quite curious.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lack of intellectual rigor

and I don’t mean that in a ‘baseball analysts are dumb’ way. I mean that academic biomechanicists and practicing biomechanicists don’t just throw their theories out for public consumption on a daily/weekly basis – they test their theories, they publish them in peer-reviewed journals, and all these things take a long time to work their way through the system. Baseball biomechanicists are basically like newspaper feature reporters – they draw on published research and project conclusions based on what they’ve found. Or at least that’s how it seems to me.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We don't even have the -tools- to do this sort of work though

I’ve spent my entire masters on basically the simplest joint in the body, and I now have a decent idea of its material properties and roughly where it’ll fail under compression.

But for a complex joint like a hip or a shoulder? Nobody’s even touching that yet, not with the sort of analysis that can predict failure loading. They’re infinitely more complicated than something simple like a spinal disc.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

cont...

I just get the feeling that people (including medical professionals) see something and say ‘that looks bad’, then come up with a reason (i.e. ‘it must make ligament x take more stress’) and make random predictions based on that. The fact of the matter is that the science simply has not advanced to the point we can make accurate predictions.

I’m appreciative of diagnostic effort (because that’s what doctors do), but good god biomechanical predictions piss me off (because I know I can’t do it yet, and unless everyone is lying to me neither can any of the other biostructural engineers).

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeaaaahhh, about that....

I’m sorry, it’s a bit juvenile, but we all just thought it’d be HILARIOUS. It was Frank Yin’s idea initially; we all just sort of went along with it. Once you’re in the middle of a con this big, you can’t just back out easily.
We’ve all been thinking of a big ‘suprise!’ moment, but no one’s thought of one, so… surprise! Pretty much everyone can do spot-on diagnostic and predictive work.
You’ve been Planck’d!

Hey, it’s better than the last big science in-joke, when that fuckwit Johnson invented Anal Cancer, and then he lost it after getting drunk at a party. Now people actually GET that. I’m still pissed about that one.

by marc w on Apr 17, 2008 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

God DAMMIT

Well, on the plus side I assume that there’s no longer any pressure to get that paper of mine out for July. So that’s good.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No no, you still have to do that.

25% of science is just going through the motions and following protocol. Another 30% is keeping the journals happy/feeding the machine.

Besides, no one knows I’ve told you yet. So just write like you were going to; lots of people will get a big kick out of it, but if you let on that you’re in on the joke….let’s just say that it might hurt your chances for post docs or jobs. Again, juvenile, not even all that funny, etc. Agreed. But just let it play out. Remember that another 15% of science is playing dumb pranks (the Feynman 15, they call it), so…yeah.

by marc w on Apr 17, 2008 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

25% is low

it’s at least 60%

by Matthew on Apr 17, 2008 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My brother is currently working for

The Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology. Why they named an anthropological institute after a famous physicist, or why they needed to hire a linguist, I don’t know, probably just part of the joke.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Germans. Love. Planck.

I’m surprised there isn’t a football club named for him, or a V6 sedan, or a beer.

by marc w on Apr 17, 2008 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No offense but...

Isn’t this whole site dedicated to the idea that a group of bloggers on the internet are better judges of how to make a good baseball team then the multimillion dollar corporations that are dedicated to making said baseball teams win? That the people on this blog are better judges of what managerial moves to make than the actual manager of the team, who has been around the game for years? Last year I recall one of the guys on USSM even gave Felix pitching advise.

Isn’t it then a bit hypocritical to declare that this guy can’t possibly know what he’s talking about? I mean, what he’s saying is not exactly biomechanical engineering- this is not a precise account of exactly what forces are at work and how loadbearing forces are impacting the joint. This is an observation based on apparently sound medical experience on what happens after this motion is repeated thousands of times.

Now that doesn’t mean the guy is necessarily right. The same medical experience tells people that K-Rod’s delivery should have caused to his arm to spontaneously disassemble by now, and that hasn’t happened (though his ankles appear to have taken a beating.) But I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss the guy out of hand just because he has bad news, which appears to be what’s going on.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Apr 17, 2008 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Understanding how to build a baseball team

is vastly different than understanding biomechanics, though. It’s a lot easier. Anybody can tell you how to build a baseball team – there’s really no wrong answer or unproven science there.

If a biomechanicist says, as Graham did above, that someone who is using biomechanic predictions can’t know what he’s talking about, I tend to give that some weight – I know nothing about biomechanics, and Graham is about to complete a degree in it, so I give him the benefit of the doubt.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

NB: That's using structural biomechanics to predict ligament/tissue failure that you shouldn't trust

I don’t actually know anything about the other branches of biomechanics since I’m a converted structural engineer/

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I stand corrected.

I don’t know nothin’ about nothin’ if the subject ain’t beer, so there’s that to consider.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But again

What that guy did ISN’T biomechanical analysis. It’s not a precise prediction based on knowledge of the forces at work- rather, it’s orthopedic analysis based on previous experience. In other words, based on that joint motion and failed treatments thus far, an orthopedist can draw conclusions on what the problem may be, because there’s a whole body of orthopedic experience, especially in baseball, to draw from.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Apr 17, 2008 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, you're right.

A group of bloggers who think they know how to play a game better than some other people is totally analogous to somebody thinking he’s knows more about the body than medical and academic professionals.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plus, I don't think this site is "dedicated" to thinking we can build or run a team better than the professionals.

In fact, I think if you hang around here enough, you’ll see that as much as we like to run our mouths off about how “a retarded monkey could do better”, we are also quick to admit that the people in charge are professionals for a reason.

I'm pretty sure I'm not retarded.

by Thingray on Apr 17, 2008 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough-

But you’ll note I never actually said you guys were wrong- I personally feel pretty confident there are guys on this site that would be better game-time managers than Squinty.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Apr 17, 2008 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but my example was THIS site.

And he’s the only manager you regularly complain about. Using “league-average” would be an unfair strawman. ;-)

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Apr 17, 2008 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it would be funny

“Ichiro, this bat is 98lb too light! Stop being so lazy!”

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What? Major league players drink?

Get this champagne out of the clubhouse guys, you’ll kill yourselves.

We don't negotiate with terrorists.

by Mariner John on Apr 17, 2008 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's highly possible, but I sure wouldn't want to be the first to try it.

I don’t even care that much for coaching my softball team. In fact, I’m stepping down after summer ball, just because I’m sick of all the second guessing and other bullshit.

I'm pretty sure I'm not retarded.

by Thingray on Apr 17, 2008 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

None taken but...

Nobody here in their right mind thinks they could actually run or manage a baseball team. I am half a decade and a Harvard MBA from even thinking of applying for a front office position.

That said, the qualifications for running or managing a baseball team are: Know an executive/be a former player then hang around for a while. The qualifications for being a biostructural engineer at my level lean significantly more heavily towards actual intellectual merit and the ability to be a good scientist.

“This is an observation based on apparently sound medical experience on what happens after this motion is repeated thousands of times.”

In vitro, from cadavers. Which is not the same as a live pitcher, in a game, with regenerating tissue and different boundary conditions.

“But I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss the guy out of hand just because he has bad news, which appears to be what’s going on.”

My reaction to biomechanics people doesn’t really have anything to do with Erik Bedard.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Corco is no longer accepting bait

but no, that costs money

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by I'm NOT Corco on Apr 17, 2008 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I have to say, I respect your fortitude.

You’re like some magnificent, eminently predictable robot.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

when he says that while drunk

you’ll know your work here is finished.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

I’ll know my work here is finished when you guys donate enough for me to retire.

by Jeff on Apr 17, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We probably did

But I should note that you did not specify a level at which you’d like to retire. Boxes in dry creekbeds are cheap.

By the way, what’s the approximate total so far.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or even, so far?

I’m bad at punctuation.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most excellent.

Just don’t shotgun ‘em. that would be…ugly. Yet entertaining for the rest of us.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Something like that

but with more blurgghhh

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd be dead before the blurgghhh

although I’ve been blogging so long that I wouldn’t be surprised if I typed and posted my death rattle.

by Jeff on Apr 17, 2008 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

M.P. & the Holy Grail?

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, like Graham mentioned

not obscure, but I was briefly worried that I didn’t make the reference obvious enough.

by Matthew on Apr 17, 2008 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not your death

just your incoherent postings. But we could do another fund raiser to cover the emergency room bills.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Christ dude

I need to stop donating pennies

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by I'm NOT Corco on Apr 17, 2008 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The most amusing part

is that Paypal takes a portion of everything donated, so every individual penny you give pretty much goes straight to them.

by Jeff on Apr 17, 2008 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree.

NEEDS MORE BONDS

by JI on Apr 17, 2008 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you should be Coach's role model.

The bait avoidance and switch to good beer are qualities he needs.

by Jed MC on Apr 17, 2008 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nah

Coach baiting leads to new (frequently hilarious) territory each time, while Corco-baiting leads to the same old boring stuff.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He goes to Penn?

Pfft…Might as well be going to, aha, Cornell.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

With the nancies that make up your military?

Unlikely.

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, you'll always have...

Crew? Tea?
I don’t know, help me out.

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

An inflated sense of superiority...

Just like Americans, except without the tanks.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You say that like the tanks aren't important.

Just because yours got taken away….

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm an American, and I'm pro-tank.

Who doesn’t love big explody things?

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, I figured you must be German given your screen name.

Although I must admit I have no idea what your screen name might mean.

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Love Potato"

Old high school nickname.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How could I have missed that?

Obviously.

So you’re from…?

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just a PSA:

I am not, nor have I ever been, an Iowan. By accident of circumstance, happen to go to school here. This isn’t to say Iowans aren’t a fine people, they’re just a little too Iowan, if you know what I mean.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In your defense

it is VERY Iowan here.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Apr 17, 2008 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was referring to Iowa.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Apr 17, 2008 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course it is.

It’s Iowa.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Apr 17, 2008 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True that.

I wholly support liquor sections in grocery stores, though.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Once you guys learn to use

some fucking ice and/or refrigeration when it comes to alcoholic beverages, we can talk.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This subthread is in jeopardy

The Alaskan, you’re in violation of the TOS.

Graham, you’re not.

by Jeff on Apr 17, 2008 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry.

I thought I was being right, not mean. I figured being ‘mean’ to Graham wouldn’t count anyway, since it seems to be a standard form of communicating with him, and I can’t imagine he takes offense. (If you do, Graham, I’m sorry. It’s really all in jest.)

I’ll do better.

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't really care

I just wanted a chance to re-state LL’s awesome double standards.

by Jeff on Apr 17, 2008 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmmm ...

double standards, SVU watching, Robert love …

by Jed MC on Apr 17, 2008 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I will take abuse quite happily under two conditions

1) It has to be funny
2) If it’s personal abuse (aimed at me) I have to know who the hell you are.

Stick to those and all will be merry. Otherwise I will start actually being mean at you.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How intimate does your knowledge need to be?

You seem nice and all, but I’m not into the freaky stuff.

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have no idea

I’ll take shit from the LL regulars, but the definition is somewhat nebulous.

If I call you a retard you’re probably not there yet though.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, you let me know when I can really get ugly.

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This subthread

has been really, really entertaining.
Technically, is it even possible for Graham to violate the TOS?

by marc w on Apr 17, 2008 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to be nice

Otherwise the tRA diaries would get deleted

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I figured that was you being nice in a back-handed mean way

like “Look how much smarter I am than all of you” sort of thing?

by Matthew on Apr 17, 2008 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It should be pointed out that while Star Destroyers

were pretty fucking awesome, they were crewed by some the nanciest nancies ever seen this side of the galaxy.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shippopi

I fucking hate you Mariners

by kentroyals5 on Apr 17, 2008 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True.

There are plenty of other reasons. Shall we list them?

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

1) Americans confuse 'Civility' and 'Culture' with 'Nanciness'

2) Correct spelling is a sign of weakness
3) You’re jealous of our accents
4) Americans call everyone nancies to cover up their insecurity over being helped by the French in the 1770s
5) Punctuality in wars is distinctly un-manly.

Am I on the right track?

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well,

you’re jealous of our road trips, beaches, and women. True about the accents though.

by sammy on Apr 17, 2008 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would be if I didn't live in America

Where I can use the accent to my full advantage wrt your women.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It ain't hard to fake the accent,

of fool Americans, for that matter. I once convinced somebody that I was the “Earl of Upper Wristwitch.” Fun times.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok, so here's a top for parties

1) Get two people who can fake/possess English accents.

2) Stand near the keg.

3) Have a very heated, very nonsensical argument about football (the European version). Don’t skimp on the volume.

4) Wenches!

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No.

1. English ‘civility’ is notoriously selective by class.
2. Your spelling is inefficient and illogical.
3. ‘Ello, Guvnah! does not wow me.
4. That was over 200 years ago. Just like the brits to be caught up in their glory years. Move on.
5. Neville went to Munich in 1938, I’m sure you’re well aware. Britain didn’t declare war until France said they would, too.

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

1) So?

2) You speak ‘English’
3) I’m not a fucking chav
4) You still relied on the French. To win a war.
5) Chamberlain was a nancy.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

1. Civility should include those less fortunate than you. Do I really have to explain this?
2. At this point, I would say I speak an improved English, called ‘American’.
3. What’s a chav?
4. Yes. And you relied on yourselves to lose it. Well played.
5. Yes, he was. He wasn’t the only one.

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

1) Yes?

2) A language which doesn’t stir up connotations of rampant buffoonery is more of an asset in the international community.
3) Pikey scum. I’d suggest avoiding them if you don’t like being stabbed/robbed/possibly eaten.
4) Yes, relying on the army for anything is a bad idea. Our bad. The terrorists won.
5) So a nancy politician makes soldiers and sailors wusses? I guess all the Yankee soldiers in WWII were wheelchair-bound cripples then.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mean the guy successfully hid his

extremely degenerative polio from the voting public, got himself re-elected roughly 97 times in landslides and kicked the shit out of the Great Depression (by, ahem, going to war, but never mind). Oh yeah, he also died in the arms of his mistress.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

1. Well, I won’t. If you haven’t figured this out on your own, I cannot imagine anything I might say that would convince you.
2. Fine. Taking the o, g and h out of ‘through’ is obviously ridiculous.
3. I appreciate the warning. Any obvious markings?
4. Damn those terrorists, eh?
5. You brought up the war thing, not me. You said we were late, I pointed out you were in no rush to get involved. I wasn’t suggesting the qualities of the leader reflect the qualities of the nation. If that were the case, I would have to kill myself.

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

1) There is no need to be nice to people unless they're useful

2) Done.
3) They look like this. Watch out for burberry too.
4) Indeed.
5) But we weren’t late.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

1) Classism doesn't map to utility

2) done, cool.
3) Yeah, seriously, they suck.
4) I can’t believe the use of Hessian mercenaries hasn’t come up yet. If we were terrorists (and I cannot accept that label for obvious reasons), then the British were tyrannical and acting in opposition to stated values. We could go off on a just-war theory tangent, but I think the ‘colonists’ would come out looking much, much rosier through that lens.
5) Shit, man. We’re ‘late’ to a war in Europe and everyone’s pissed off somehow. Then, we start a war or two in the middle east and everyone’s all “you’re just belligerent, you always think war is the answer, blah blah blah free tibet but don’t use guns.” Let’s discuss what counts as punctual and what doesn’t.

by marc w on Apr 17, 2008 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

1) I am not classist, I'm elitist

4) That’s a fair point. I’m not a real huge fan of the revolutionary war at all, for obvious reasons
5) I have interesting things to say about this one but the whole modern politics thing is off-limits.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a little hard to be an elitist

(in the traditional sense) in a class-based society. Yeah, the cream should rise to the top, but when you have a system that rewards net, rather than personal worth, it becomes nearly impossible to judge just who is naturally talented and who was handed their opportunities on a silver platter.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

bingo

You know it’s a class-based society when even the rock stars and people who play the poor on TV are nearly uniformly recruited from Oxbridge and boarding schools.
When even Shane MacGowan is an upper-class toff, something’s gone horribly wrong. I think it’s part of the reason your chavs are so belligerent.

by marc w on Apr 17, 2008 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Queen is clearly worthy of your respect.

Look how much stuff she has!

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be honest, I've never understood the current American

hatred of the French, considering how they were our navy back in ‘81—the statue of liberty’s pretty bitchin, too. If they weren’t such insufferable pricks these days, I could go for some renewed Franco-American relations.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Snootiness and dirigisme

and pray for septic embolism(s)?

by marc w on Apr 17, 2008 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let me be clear

I don’t actually hate the French. Lafayette’s fine, and didn’t the Pixies have a song about Eiffel, wine, and passionately arguing that films based on not much more than showing a totally hot woman in every frame is actually high art… yeah, you gotta take the bad with the good.

by marc w on Apr 17, 2008 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love Lafayette Indiana

nice stop on the Chicago to Columbus haul

Determined, Jonesing Commentor

by I'm NOT Corco on Apr 17, 2008 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair ineffecient and illogical

spelling is par for the course in the language, American spelling conventions happen to be less so.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It wasn't by happenstance.

Aggressive editorial laziness has a lot to do with it. Because of that, spelling tends toward consistency as people don’t bother to look words up and spell by sound using general rules of the language.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Apr 17, 2008 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Zu Long's kicking the discourse up a notch.

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's just sad that all the kids talk about these days

is “sex” this and “biomechanics” that. Sickening, really.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Apparently compliments aren't british.

Zu Long made a good point, eloquently. You… you rambled about some esoteric interest of yours that I kind of skipped over. I’m sure it was top-notch, though. The dogs’s bollocks.

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What?

The dog’s bollocks is a compliment over there, apparently. I just thought it odd that Fancy Pants decided to argue with me even when I say something nice.

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You amuse me.

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did you get rugged

by some chavs last night?

You’re in quite a mood. All this hostility. Why don’t you give yourself a good jerk and come back.

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And deprive you of amusement?

I feel it’s my civic duty to keep you entertained lest you get distracted and fall out of a window or something.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Don't worry.

That’s what the helmet’s for.

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Depends how high up you are

And besides, I don’t give a damn about you, I just feel bad for the people who have to scoop up the mess into body bags.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ouch.

Do you go down on your professors with that mouth?

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Talking about body bags is equivalent to being potty mouthed?

That’s a weird little complex you’ve got going on there.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup.

It’s called the “I can’t ignore your duche-baggery” complex.

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also known

As the ‘I feel the strange urge to attempt to insult my betters but cannot spell “douchebag” and thus generally fail’ complex.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you hate us because we both

got helped by the French and saved them in WWII?

We don't negotiate with terrorists.

by Mariner John on Apr 17, 2008 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like you guys

You invented baseball.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you for the gin

I guess technically not a British invention, but a massive, glowing orb of innovation. Dutch genever sucks.

Oh, and on behalf of a region that Boeing helped shape, well done on that jet engine thing.

but mostly the gin.

by marc w on Apr 17, 2008 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have to say it

I hate Whittle.

Why? The Whittle lab is two goddamn miles west of Cambridge proper and for two years I had supervisions there multiple times a week. And I hate bicycles, so I walked.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you for converting km to mi. for us.

I would have been stuck on this post all night.

by Wilder. on Apr 17, 2008 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm fine with standard distance

It’s just energy that confuses me.

What the hell kind of measurement system assigns torque and energy the same unit?

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

these are the kinds of questions that keep me up at night

wait, no they’re not.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I lose sleep over lots of things

One day (back when I was in HS and was thus stupid) I couldn’t sleep because I couldn’t remember what the unit of frequency was.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have no idea what that even means

because my unit of frequency in HS was gin. Frequent units of gin.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If only somebody had thought to write

that down somewhere, like in a book, or some sort of gigantic-scale, electronic network.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

screw Graham

you’re on my cool list.

by Matthew on Apr 17, 2008 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a sucker for an accent

but I have my limits.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

share the wealth I say

I’m not the jealous type, I encourage openness.

by Matthew on Apr 17, 2008 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

they have this thing, called the internet

where you could have looked it up. Also, it’s in books.

by Matthew on Apr 17, 2008 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hah.

Beat you to it.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry

it just sort of mystifies me when people talk about their high school years and mention the internet.
OK, technically I had a computer and some version of the internet when I was in high school, but let’s just say things like ‘FTP’ and ‘GOPHER’ were more likely to pop up then.
Things like LL? Less so.

Good ol’ Lynx. Pine. UUunencode. Good times.

by marc w on Apr 17, 2008 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't have the internet in high school

all we had was a “computer lab” which was three Apple IIe’s and some IBM thing or other that people played Oregon Trail on and wrote three-line BASIC programs. Good times.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that was me in grammar school

Oregon Trail on the IIc. Awesome.

by Matthew on Apr 17, 2008 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Me too

“hacking” oregon trail… good times. Which is why this Achewood thread was such a classic.

I remember a baseball game of some sort on the IIc; I remember it for one thing: it thought Danny Ainge was really, really good.

by marc w on Apr 17, 2008 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just glad I have a concrete memory

of 5.5” floppies of which to bemuse my future children with.

by Matthew on Apr 17, 2008 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Uh, I think you mean

5.25.” The little ones were 3.5”

I shall bemuse my kids with tales of my first computer, which ran CPM. Hah! Pre DOS (kind of).

by marc w on Apr 17, 2008 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I had a 1-on1 basketball

with Dr. J and Larry Bird. Good stuff.

Formerly Alaskan, until Alaska showed up at the SB Nation switch. Thanks for nothing, Alaska!

by The Alaskan on Apr 17, 2008 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My high school years = now

We don't negotiate with terrorists.

by Mariner John on Apr 17, 2008 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I meant pure dimensionality

As in 1/t, or ‘perseconds’ as what… 16 year old me decided eventually at 3 AM.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gin=disgusting crap.

Thanks for nothing, assholes.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hate Gin.

You don’t see people wandering around eating juniper berries, why the fuck should I want to drink some? Now scotch—scotch is the milk of the gods.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wrong yet again

Scotch is the drink of midlife-crisising, bald, cigar smoking guys who drink it because think they’re sophisticated but couldn’t tell you the definition of ‘single malt’, much less where the Isle of Jura actually is.

Gin = gift from the gods.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

ALSO wrong

I can’t help it if a bald man orders a well scotch to impress a totally uninterested waitress, but this has nothing whatsoever to do with how good scotch can be.

Lots of idiots buy well gin, and that shit is probably toxic. They may do so for reasons that are pretty much retarded. But none of this has anything to do with how good GOOD gin actually is.

by marc w on Apr 17, 2008 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly, the first and only time I've had

gin was when I attempted to make a G&T (which was about 2/3 G to 1/3 T) and then vomited all over the quad. I’m a little biased.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pint glass

Ice
4 shots of gin
Dash of tonic
Lime

Imbibe

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Repeat.

Imbibe.
Repeat.

Nothing better on a summer afternoon than a G&T. Or three.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The 4 shot one is my

‘shit I am too sober to dance’ drink.

Works like a charm

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, that recipe?

10 oz. Coke
10 oz. Jack

If you have access to ice, skip the coke.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

only 1:1?

Used to do 2:1 rum:coke.

by Matthew on Apr 17, 2008 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Black-Toothed Grin

2 oz Crown Royal
splash of coke
2 oz Seagram 7
splash of coke

That’s a drink.

by Llewdor on Apr 17, 2008 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds nice, but

the challenge was to create a drink that will get you as shitfaced as possible, in the shortest amount of time possible, while still remaining edible.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

eerilly similar to my experience

though I’d had gin before and have no problems with it, the first G&T I made was the most foul thing ever conceived and I swore I would never drink another until I had John make me one a few weeks ago.

by Matthew on Apr 17, 2008 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If it makes any difference,

I like just about anything in the whisky family, preferably bourbon or scotch, though.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most people who drink scotch are annoying.

But I like Scotch, and although I am annoying, not in the way you describe.

Support local music.

by acblue on Apr 17, 2008 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gin is delicious,

but you really have to be up and ready for a gin martini. Ketel One martinis go down smooth every time.

by sammy on Apr 17, 2008 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The motion has been seconded

all those in favor, please signify by saying AYE.

I love scotch too, but you can’t hate gin and be on the cool people list. You just can’t.

by marc w on Apr 17, 2008 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Juniper berries are poisonous

Of course you wouldn’t walk around eating them.

But gin is tasty. My pregnant girlfriend keeps getting gin cravings, so I have to mix myself a G&T and let her taste it.

by Llewdor on Apr 17, 2008 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see. ^_^

My only other comment then would be pure speculation- could the reason baseball biomechanics/orthopedists seem to be ahead of the rest of you be that their experience isn’t just cadavers? There’s gotta be a giant body of case studies on what motions produced what baseball injuries, especially in the case of starting pitching. And these ARE multimillion dollar corporations with vested interests in keeping their star products on the field. Since their observations would be based on what they found after they started surgery on live subjects who make their living doing repetitive motions at maximum force, you’d have to think that they would get at least a passing knowledge of what makes injuries likely.

(Again, pure speculation)

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Apr 17, 2008 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nah, it's not that

Everyone’s material data comes from cadavers (because in order to get material data out you need to yank the tissue in question out and poke it until it breaks, and you don’t really want to do that to people who are alive or they whine a lot), and correlating injuries with specific motions is a mistake because of the variability in material strength in joint to joint, person to person. There aren’t enough pitchers with exactly the same motion to test any of these hypotheses meaningfully, and since any variation in the motion will change the stresses throughout the joint (and the variation in material strength will mess it up too) you can’t really infer anything from people getting injured.

So the passing knowledge that teams think they have is based on limited data and falls into the correlation—->causation trap. The knowledge internet analysts have is a filtered down version of it, and while it’s really interesting there’s just no reason at all to trust it. It’s all anecdotal and based on tiny sample sizes.

Incidentally, I got into this sort of engineering just because I wanted to do a PhD on predicting elbow and shoulder damage done to pitchers due to pitching motions. And then I found out that that’s actually impossible, at least for now. Which sort of ruined my plans for life.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah.

That is a pickle. I can only suggest that when you revive the British empire through stormtroopers, you may want to consider employing a battery of amoral scientists to do soft tissue stress study on live subjects (the Japanese and Germans did wonders for several scientific areas during WWII that way).

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Apr 17, 2008 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Nobody here in their right mind thinks they could actually run or manage a baseball team"

I do but it will be after years of schooling.

We don't negotiate with terrorists.

by Mariner John on Apr 17, 2008 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I expect an expert not to misuse that term

It is not a mispelling. It is understanding what the word “tendinitis” means.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Apr 17, 2008 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

AP reported he would start April 24th

I know AP lies, but is there any possibility to this?

by cwel87 on Apr 17, 2008 9:55 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

He said..

Bedard said he’d like to start then. Nothing concrete though

Go away Sexson

by cougfan on Apr 17, 2008 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gin has a very distinct taste

that can turn a lot of people off at first. Start off with Bombay Sapphire and tonic with a slice of lime. Bombay makes good martinis as well, though I prefer classic dry gins for martinis: Seagram’s Extra Dry and Gordon’s both work well.

by sammy on Apr 17, 2008 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bombay Sapphire's a very good place to start

and then when you get acclimatized to the wonderful world of gin, buy yourself a bottle of Hendrick’s and don’t mix it with anything, at first – just sip it and be amazed. It’s unreal.

No matter what you do, though, do NOT buy anything cheaper/lower down on the shelf than Bombay Sapphire.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another 'starter' gin to buy might be Rogue Distilleries

gin.
Some gins can taste very strongly of juniper, almost a piny taste – if you like that, then try Junipero. If you DON’T, then Sapphire, Plymouth, Tanqueray 10.

Perhaps my all time fave, and something that can be tough to find, is called Old Raj.

by marc w on Apr 18, 2008 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've never had Rogue gin

but I’ve heard good things. Have to check that out.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 18, 2008 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You may like, you may hate it

if you like dry gin, you might find it too….not dry. It’s almost sweet; there’s a mandarin or tangerine taste in there that’s a bit more pronounced than may have been intended.
Still, it’s a great change of pace.

by marc w on Apr 18, 2008 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs