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Bedard's degenerative hip condition

Tiny by cougfan on

Bedard hip analysis

Thanks to THT. Kind of ironic that AJ's worry was a degenerative hip. Did we forget to do a physical on Bedard? Can we have AJ and GS52 back yet?

Bad hips are a bitch. Bad hips are a bitch. Bad hips are a bitch. Bad hips are a bitch. Bad hips are a bitch. Bad hips are a bitch. Bad hips are a bitch. Bad hips are a bitch. Bad hips are a bitch.

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Yeah, no.

It’s a tear. And even if we didn’t know that already, arthritis would have been found in a nuclear scan during his physical.

by Matthew on Apr 17, 2008 12:02 AM PDT   0 recs

According to my boss, it was a conspiracy by Angelos

Apparently, he must’ve knew about the whole thing, but accused Adam Jones of having it so that would distract the marienrs, and not being able to properly inspect Bedard since they were so eager to get the deal done as quickly as possible and they were trying hard to convince Angelos there was nothing wrong with Jones.

Don’t know if my boss is right, but god damn he’s smart, so I would have to believe him on this one.

by Fin on Apr 17, 2008 12:11 AM PDT   0 recs

I don't know if I'm super sensitive about seeing the video

but that is painful to watch.

In the words of Dave Chappelle, as Rick James: “Fuck Yo’ Hip!”

I fucking hate you Mariners

by kentroyals5 on Apr 17, 2008 12:25 AM PDT   0 recs

Wow

I’m surprised and disappointed that THT would even publish such an article. An article where the expert could not even spell tendInitis NOT tendOnitis correctly. TendinItis means inflammation of the tendon, Just as bursitis means inflammation of the bursa. TendOnitis has no meaning.

First, he’s trying to draw conclusions about degenerative injury with ONE web video. Then, he starts jumping to conclusions based not on actually talking to the guy, or the guys doctors / trainers, or at least a source in the org, but apparently on reports in newspapers / websites, which are often imprecise at best about injuries.

“With only the extremely vague description of “hip inflammation”, you can see how I would have some trouble writing up a comprehensive article regarding his condition.”

Err, so how about not writing an article then?

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Apr 17, 2008 2:26 AM PDT   0 recs

You can spell it either way...

Resident biology major to the rescue.

by dkulich on Apr 17, 2008 7:43 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm being anal here

but tendOnitis, strictly speaking, has no meaning. Everyone understands that it means tendinItis, because it is constantly misused.

it is like saying “it’s” and “its” is the same, since everyone understands what you mean, Or “you’re” and “your”.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Apr 17, 2008 10:14 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Wow. I don't even agree with the article, but this is vastly overstated

A) He doesn’t attempt to draw any conclusions. He says multiple times that’s he’s just giving his opinion. When you use phrases like “to my knowledge” and “my initial impression”, you are not stating conclusions. He says many times that these are possible issues, or could be an issue

B) You don’t know how many videos he watched. He embedded one, he could have watched many more.

C) Talking to Bedard’s trainers/doctors/team would be pointless. HIPAA.

I didn’t agree with the arthritis angle, but I find nothing wrong with the article’s tone.

by Matthew on Apr 17, 2008 8:29 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

HIPAA

Not if you’re with the Cubs or Astros apparently.

Go Fo Broke!

by eknpdx on Apr 17, 2008 9:33 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Does anyone smart here know how the HIPAA laws work with player injuries?

I’d think the players would have to sign off on a release form allowing their injuries to be made public.

by Jed MC on Apr 17, 2008 10:08 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

But that would be dangerous for the team.

It would be illegal to pressure your players into signing such a waiver, so teams would probably avoid doing that for fear or beng accusing of having pressured players.

by Llewdor on Apr 17, 2008 10:42 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't believe HIPAA allows waivers

I think it’s pretty ironclad. I work at a health-insurance provider and I’m digging through the regs trying to find something, but I’m pretty sure that PHA is locked down pretty tight.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 10:46 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

PHI, rather

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 10:47 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm mostly curious because I'd be really pissed at my job

if my employer released my injury history to the general public. I know it is way different with professional athletes considering their health is vital to their employment and I’m sure in the general player’s contract there are provisions that allow a team to see their medical history. But, it seems like privacy rights are violated by releasing any info to the public without the player’s permission.

by Jed MC on Apr 17, 2008 10:58 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

He says,

“What I saw when I first viewed the video on YouTube was so glaringly evident that I can’t believe nobody else saw it first (especially Baltimore and Seattle fans – shame on you)!
“

“Now take a look at this video clip (thank you YouTube and user jamessutherland23):”

That sounds to me like all he did was watch the YouTube video.

Yes, he does not draw a conclusion. He spends much of the article speculating, and then not denying his speculation. That’s like saying “I do not believe XXX is using performance enhancing substances, but if he were it could explain blah blah blah”.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Apr 17, 2008 10:21 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

To be fair, Bedard's motion does put all his weight on his left hip.

Whether or not that means anything is the issue, but he’s got a point.

Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.

by BrettJMiller on Apr 17, 2008 11:03 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Exactly, what's your deal with that?

It’s a fantasy blog. People wanted an opinion on what Bedard’s injury might be. He gave it. He coaches it many many times in conditionals.

by Matthew on Apr 17, 2008 11:09 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah, misspelling = poor analysis

the guy who wrote this article has a pretty good blog on baseball injuries (i won’t advertise it here though). he actually called bedard going on the DL when the M’s were still being super-optimistic about him. he has no reason to be anything but objective, while the M’s have every reason to downplay the severity of the injury.

by claskowski on Apr 17, 2008 7:38 AM PDT   0 recs

It's Not

Because he spelled tendinitis with an “o”.

Or something…

by tait644 on Apr 17, 2008 8:02 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

because it's on the internets!

Anything found on a 5-minute trip through the internets is better than anything gained through years of exhaustive study, practical experience, and thousands of case studies, right?

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 8:02 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm basically wondering

how the baseball biomechanics community appears to be several decades ahead of the academic biomechanics crew. It does indeed seem quite curious.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 8:10 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Lack of intellectual rigor

and I don’t mean that in a ‘baseball analysts are dumb’ way. I mean that academic biomechanicists and practicing biomechanicists don’t just throw their theories out for public consumption on a daily/weekly basis – they test their theories, they publish them in peer-reviewed journals, and all these things take a long time to work their way through the system. Baseball biomechanicists are basically like newspaper feature reporters – they draw on published research and project conclusions based on what they’ve found. Or at least that’s how it seems to me.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 8:15 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

We don't even have the -tools- to do this sort of work though

I’ve spent my entire masters on basically the simplest joint in the body, and I now have a decent idea of its material properties and roughly where it’ll fail under compression.

But for a complex joint like a hip or a shoulder? Nobody’s even touching that yet, not with the sort of analysis that can predict failure loading. They’re infinitely more complicated than something simple like a spinal disc.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 8:22 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

cont...

I just get the feeling that people (including medical professionals) see something and say ‘that looks bad’, then come up with a reason (i.e. ‘it must make ligament x take more stress’) and make random predictions based on that. The fact of the matter is that the science simply has not advanced to the point we can make accurate predictions.

I’m appreciative of diagnostic effort (because that’s what doctors do), but good god biomechanical predictions piss me off (because I know I can’t do it yet, and unless everyone is lying to me neither can any of the other biostructural engineers).

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 8:30 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeaaaahhh, about that....

I’m sorry, it’s a bit juvenile, but we all just thought it’d be HILARIOUS. It was Frank Yin’s idea initially; we all just sort of went along with it. Once you’re in the middle of a con this big, you can’t just back out easily.
We’ve all been thinking of a big ‘suprise!’ moment, but no one’s thought of one, so… surprise! Pretty much everyone can do spot-on diagnostic and predictive work.
You’ve been Planck’d!

Hey, it’s better than the last big science in-joke, when that fuckwit Johnson invented Anal Cancer, and then he lost it after getting drunk at a party. Now people actually GET that. I’m still pissed about that one.

by marc w on Apr 17, 2008 9:17 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

God DAMMIT

Well, on the plus side I assume that there’s no longer any pressure to get that paper of mine out for July. So that’s good.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 9:21 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No no, you still have to do that.

25% of science is just going through the motions and following protocol. Another 30% is keeping the journals happy/feeding the machine.

Besides, no one knows I’ve told you yet. So just write like you were going to; lots of people will get a big kick out of it, but if you let on that you’re in on the joke….let’s just say that it might hurt your chances for post docs or jobs. Again, juvenile, not even all that funny, etc. Agreed. But just let it play out. Remember that another 15% of science is playing dumb pranks (the Feynman 15, they call it), so…yeah.

by marc w on Apr 17, 2008 9:36 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

25% is low

it’s at least 60%

by Matthew on Apr 17, 2008 11:11 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

My brother is currently working for

The Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology. Why they named an anthropological institute after a famous physicist, or why they needed to hire a linguist, I don’t know, probably just part of the joke.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 11:23 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Germans. Love. Planck.

I’m surprised there isn’t a football club named for him, or a V6 sedan, or a beer.

by marc w on Apr 17, 2008 11:49 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No offense but...

Isn’t this whole site dedicated to the idea that a group of bloggers on the internet are better judges of how to make a good baseball team then the multimillion dollar corporations that are dedicated to making said baseball teams win? That the people on this blog are better judges of what managerial moves to make than the actual manager of the team, who has been around the game for years? Last year I recall one of the guys on USSM even gave Felix pitching advise.

Isn’t it then a bit hypocritical to declare that this guy can’t possibly know what he’s talking about? I mean, what he’s saying is not exactly biomechanical engineering- this is not a precise account of exactly what forces are at work and how loadbearing forces are impacting the joint. This is an observation based on apparently sound medical experience on what happens after this motion is repeated thousands of times.

Now that doesn’t mean the guy is necessarily right. The same medical experience tells people that K-Rod’s delivery should have caused to his arm to spontaneously disassemble by now, and that hasn’t happened (though his ankles appear to have taken a beating.) But I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss the guy out of hand just because he has bad news, which appears to be what’s going on.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Apr 17, 2008 11:11 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Understanding how to build a baseball team

is vastly different than understanding biomechanics, though. It’s a lot easier. Anybody can tell you how to build a baseball team – there’s really no wrong answer or unproven science there.

If a biomechanicist says, as Graham did above, that someone who is using biomechanic predictions can’t know what he’s talking about, I tend to give that some weight – I know nothing about biomechanics, and Graham is about to complete a degree in it, so I give him the benefit of the doubt.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 11:22 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

NB: That's using structural biomechanics to predict ligament/tissue failure that you shouldn't trust

I don’t actually know anything about the other branches of biomechanics since I’m a converted structural engineer/

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 11:33 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I stand corrected.

I don’t know nothin’ about nothin’ if the subject ain’t beer, so there’s that to consider.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Apr 17, 2008 12:59 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

But again

What that guy did ISN’T biomechanical analysis. It’s not a precise prediction based on knowledge of the forces at work- rather, it’s orthopedic analysis based on previous experience. In other words, based on that joint motion and failed treatments thus far, an orthopedist can draw conclusions on what the problem may be, because there’s a whole body of orthopedic experience, especially in baseball, to draw from.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Apr 17, 2008 11:35 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, you're right.

A group of bloggers who think they know how to play a game better than some other people is totally analogous to somebody thinking he’s knows more about the body than medical and academic professionals.

by Liebkartoffel on Apr 17, 2008 11:27 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Plus, I don't think this site is "dedicated" to thinking we can build or run a team better than the professionals.

In fact, I think if you hang around here enough, you’ll see that as much as we like to run our mouths off about how “a retarded monkey could do better”, we are also quick to admit that the people in charge are professionals for a reason.

I'm pretty sure I'm not retarded.

by Thingray on Apr 17, 2008 11:32 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Fair enough-

But you’ll note I never actually said you guys were wrong- I personally feel pretty confident there are guys on this site that would be better game-time managers than Squinty.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Apr 17, 2008 11:40 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, but my example was THIS site.

And he’s the only manager you regularly complain about. Using “league-average” would be an unfair strawman. ;-)

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Apr 17, 2008 11:44 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think it would be funny

“Ichiro, this bat is 98lb too light! Stop being so lazy!”

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 11:51 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

What? Major league players drink?

Get this champagne out of the clubhouse guys, you’ll kill yourselves.

We don't negotiate with terrorists.

by Mariner John on Apr 17, 2008 3:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That's highly possible, but I sure wouldn't want to be the first to try it.

I don’t even care that much for coaching my softball team. In fact, I’m stepping down after summer ball, just because I’m sick of all the second guessing and other bullshit.

I'm pretty sure I'm not retarded.

by Thingray on Apr 17, 2008 11:44 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

None taken but...

Nobody here in their right mind thinks they could actually run or manage a baseball team. I am half a decade and a Harvard MBA from even thinking of applying for a front office position.

That said, the qualifications for running or managing a baseball team are: Know an executive/be a former player then hang around for a while. The qualifications for being a biostructural engineer at my level lean significantly more heavily towards actual intellectual merit and the ability to be a good scientist.

“This is an observation based on apparently sound medical experience on what happens after this motion is repeated thousands of times.”

In vitro, from cadavers. Which is not the same as a live pitcher, in a game, with regenerating tissue and different boundary conditions.

“But I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss the guy out of hand just because he has bad news, which appears to be what’s going on.”

My reaction to biomechanics people doesn’t really have anything to do with Erik Bedard.

by Graham on Apr 17, 2008 11:31 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs