Bad Satire

by skijake1 on Mar 5, 2008 1:24 PM PST

From ESPN's Page 2, comes this column from "Art Garfamundis":

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=garfamudis/080305

I certainly appreciate the satirical point Page 2 makes, but is this the best they could do?

At least this line was funny, kind of:

"If you can't tell how good a player is from basic stats, maybe Timothy Leary was your family doctor, or maybe it's just that you don't know very much about baseball."

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Couldn't get past the first sentence

ESPN is to satire what Wonder Bread is to nutrition. I would love to find out exactly when ESPN became the bloated, ridiculous, mostly pointless behemoth it is now - was it one event? Was it a gradual process? Was it some sort of satanic pact?

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Mar 5, 2008 1:31 PM PST reply actions

I vote for

satanic pact. (not that we start one)

http://lybberty.com

by skijake1 on Mar 5, 2008 1:36 PM PST up reply actions

Blame Disney

by Matthew on Mar 5, 2008 1:45 PM PST up reply actions

Works for me.

I blame them for a lot of things anyway, adding one more to the list is no big thing.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Mar 5, 2008 1:46 PM PST up reply actions

And look what they did

to poor Charles Barkley

by Paytheline on Mar 5, 2008 5:37 PM PST up reply actions

Space Jam was a great movie.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Mar 5, 2008 5:55 PM PST up reply actions

Wasn't that film by Warner Brothers?

by BrianL on Mar 5, 2008 6:03 PM PST up reply actions

I disagree.

Allow me to introduce you to the Nostalgia Critic.

These pretzels....are making me thirsty!

by Goose on Mar 5, 2008 9:23 PM PST up reply actions

Bah, forget to delete that section of the html.

Oh well.

These pretzels....are making me thirsty!

by Goose on Mar 5, 2008 9:23 PM PST up reply actions

Hahaha

I love how he goes all Gilbert Gottfried in his rage at 0:35.

I'm Gomez and I write about many things.

by Gomez on Mar 5, 2008 9:29 PM PST up reply actions

You should check out his other stuff.

He has a crap load of other reviews as the Nostalgia Critic, as well as another youtube channel called "5secondmovies" which are funny 5 second summations of movies(and there are ALOT of them). He also does other projects as the "New Guy with Glasses".

These pretzels....are making me thirsty!

by Goose on Mar 5, 2008 9:36 PM PST up reply actions

This is no flash in the pan

His review of the Super Mario Bros movie is HILARIOUS.

</object>

I'm Gomez and I write about many things.

by Gomez on Mar 5, 2008 9:48 PM PST up reply actions

But seriously

I never knew there was a movie version of the Angry Video Game Nerd. I have to check all this out.

I'm Gomez and I write about many things.

by Gomez on Mar 5, 2008 9:40 PM PST up reply actions

Here's his 5 second movies channel

link

My favorites are Spaceballs, Leathal Weapon, The Matrix, and the LOTR trilogy(which you have to watch in order for it to be it's funniest).

These pretzels....are making me thirsty!

by Goose on Mar 6, 2008 3:35 AM PST up reply actions

Braveheart and Titanic are the best

Refuse to progress!!

by Double06 on Mar 6, 2008 10:16 AM PST up reply actions

FREEEEDOOOOOM!!!!

Karate Kid and the Rocky series get my vote for honorable mention. Kudos to "Bill and Ted's" for simplicity.

But my winner:

Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum

by PositivePaul on Mar 6, 2008 12:54 PM PST up reply actions

That's....special.

I hate to throw stones here, because I've DONE bad satire, but this is terrible.

It's also difficult to argue that these newfangled stats make such a break from tradition when even this persona has to acknowledge that 10-11 stats are pretty much okay. Baseball's always been infatuated with stats - the stats chosen were simply inadequate to the task.

A better approach would take that point on squarely and argue that the traditional stats are better because they're 'contaminated' with things outside a player's control. I guess the problem is that many people actually do this (like the arguments about won/loss records), making satire sort of impossible.

by marc w on Mar 5, 2008 1:53 PM PST reply actions

Does anyone know

where I can find good satire--specifically, good sports satire (I already know about Colbert).

http://lybberty.com

by skijake1 on Mar 5, 2008 2:11 PM PST reply actions

Stephen Colbert interviewed Mike Tyson

here.

Refuse to progress!!

by Double06 on Mar 5, 2008 2:57 PM PST up reply actions

You suck

by redwolf75 on Mar 5, 2008 3:04 PM PST up reply actions

You should know better

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Mar 5, 2008 3:07 PM PST up reply actions

Rather be rick roll'd

than "2girls1cup"'d

by redwolf75 on Mar 5, 2008 3:12 PM PST up reply actions

That's happened to me before.

Too bad my reaction wasn't caught on web cam. It was worse than this one.

Refuse to progress!!

by Double06 on Mar 5, 2008 3:33 PM PST up reply actions

better than getting meatspun

"You know, as that was coming out of my mouth, I knew that it was wrong."

by JI on Mar 5, 2008 4:42 PM PST up reply actions

Google the link address

If it's a rickroll, you'll know.

by Graham MacAree on Mar 5, 2008 3:10 PM PST up reply actions

That's...um...a load of shit

by Corco on Mar 5, 2008 2:15 PM PST reply actions

What happened?

The box dude is pleasure himself again instead of updating the scores.

by redwolf75 on Mar 5, 2008 2:18 PM PST up reply actions

wrong thread

by redwolf75 on Mar 5, 2008 2:18 PM PST up reply actions

wow

was that meant for Yahoo answers?

by Bearskin Rugburn on Mar 5, 2008 2:20 PM PST up reply actions

Haha.

That was meant for the gameday thread, as the mlb box score guy never updates the scores.

by redwolf75 on Mar 5, 2008 2:21 PM PST up reply actions

How is babby formed?

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Mar 5, 2008 3:32 PM PST up reply actions

Hey now, the only thing wrong with

that was "pleasure" instead of "pleasuring."

by redwolf75 on Mar 5, 2008 4:25 PM PST up reply actions

Wrong thread.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Mar 5, 2008 2:19 PM PST up reply actions

this guy is a tool

are you so sure its satire?

by Bearskin Rugburn on Mar 5, 2008 2:18 PM PST reply actions

I'm about

99.999999% sure it's satire. Do a google search for "Art Garfamundis" if you don't believe me.

I dunno, maybe Art Thiel changed his last name and wrote it for real?

http://lybberty.com

by skijake1 on Mar 5, 2008 2:30 PM PST up reply actions

"bad satire"

http://lybberty.com

by skijake1 on Mar 5, 2008 2:31 PM PST up reply actions

I just tried to read it again

and I got to the third paragraph, this time. It's satire, definitely - it's on Page 2, the "funny" part of ESPN, so it's not serious. Unfortunately, neither it nor (neither it or? I never know) Page 2 is actually funny.

Satire is like poetry. Everyone thinks they can write it well, when in reality, almost no one actually can.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Mar 5, 2008 2:38 PM PST up reply actions

Page 2 is pretty solid

as long as you stick to the guys who can actually write and have some knowledge of sports.

Simmons is kind of a tool and a bit of a douche and doesn't know that much about baseball, but he's a talented writer, but I think a lot of his value comes from being a fan of the NBA (that and Gregg Easterbrook's falling off a cliff...)

I think Caple has been great lately - his satire pieces suck, but when he writes about amusing things (e.g. You don't want A-Rod on your team? You're an idiot), he's pretty good.

Patrick Hruby is another one I like - his Week in Review Quiz is often terrific, and his rundown of the Super Bowl parties was ridiculously awesome.

I'm in the minority, but I like DJ Gallo as well. He has a schtick, and does decently with it.

Hopefully Gregg Easterbrook (TMQ) picks it back up next year instead of writing 3500 word columns and basically calling everyone in the world a horrible person for one thing or another, leading to my friend and coming up with the Gregg Easterbrook corollary - "If you selectively present facts, you can prove any point you damn well please."

Him and the two that start off 70% of their stories with "So I'm gay/lesbian and THIS happened to me" probably annoy me the most right now.

OK, sorry, long rant. I just happen to like Page 2, as long as you read the guys who can actually write a little.

by seattlebruin on Mar 5, 2008 3:42 PM PST up reply actions

I go in phases with Page 2

I'm pretty much done with Simmons - used to love him, now I'm tired of the karate kid/shawshank/insertrandompopculturereference crutch that he employs a bit too much, so I haven't read him in months, until the recent Sonics stuff which was really quite good.

Caple's the same way - I like him OK, but he's really walking on some thin ice with those satire pieces, and he's writing too many of them.

I read Easterbrook faithfully, even though I don't care about the NFL, because I really like reading the writings of the clinically insane. I mean, damn - he's got a couple decent lines, and then the rest of it is just kinda 30 paragraphs of whaaaaaaaa? I can't even criticize it, because it's so random and weird.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Mar 5, 2008 3:57 PM PST up reply actions

My friend and I are actually

both pretty big fans of Easterbrook until this year. He used to be fantastic because he could mix in random yet relevant thoughts with his NFL pieces, which tended to have a very TMQ flavor while still sticking with rational analysis of the games.

Then this year, he spent an entire season harping on things why the government is evil for not proposing better legislation on fuel economy and why science fiction movies and TV dramas are unrealistic, among others. While clearly valid points, A. What does he expect and B. When I went to see Cloverfield, the last thing I cared about was how the monster got so damn big. If I was worried about the realism of the movie, I'd also be a touch worried about a giant monster coming and crushing San Diego as well.

He also starting calling his thoughts "immutable laws," which really annoyed me, and spent every single column talking about how teams needed to go for it on fourth down, and how coaches were more concerned with their jobs than winning (e.g. they would play it safe as to not lose their job for doing something stupid). I liken it to his writing though - instead of continuing with his fantastic column, he started writing with more of a schtick, sacrificing a great column for increased popularity

Lastly, he started making really stupid points and showed that he wasn't doing his research like he used to. He started blaming parents for the decline of the world, and saying things like "talking on cells is super wrong for teens etc," while conveniently ignoring the fact that some states COUGH Washington COUGH do not allow passengers in teenagers cars, thus forcing kids to call others if they need directions, etc.

The TMQ Bad Predictions Review sealed it for me though. He spent that whole column basically being a giant ass to pretty much everyone and anyone who tried to make a prediction, and it was an awful column.

Try Simmons again though - he's gotten a lot better lately. I think he was horrible when he was writing his book, but now that he's focused on writing his column now, he's gotten pretty good again.

by seattlebruin on Mar 5, 2008 4:10 PM PST up reply actions

Yeah

Easterbrook really didn't seem at this best this season. I wonder if he's too busy with his other endeavors to write well about football?

Raul for DH.

by bluemax on Mar 5, 2008 7:10 PM PST up reply actions

Caple just did a pretty damn good satirical piece

about Stern and his obsession over the NBA expanding to Europe. Here's a bit of it-

"I'm very proud to say that despite the frivolous lawsuits over trademark infringement, the Haarlem Globetrotters have been a huge success as well. Once best known for its beautiful 17th century architecture, the old Dutch city of Haarlem is now world famous for the ballhandling wizardry of its all-white, chest-passing NBA team and their tight satin shorts. I never laughed so hard as when they pulled down Kobe Bryant's shorts in their playoff game against the Los Angeles Lakers of Anaheim. And I don't need to tell you how popular staying in nearby Amsterdam has been with American players."

and linky http://tinyurl.com/2cztxq

I basically agree though. Simmons = good for NBA, but I get sick of him talking about Boston teams all the time. Caple's great, Hruby and Gallo are solid. The rest can just bugger off IMO.

MLS Seattle

by Nick S on Mar 5, 2008 9:16 PM PST up reply actions

Nor

"Neither it nor I"

by Llewdor on Mar 5, 2008 4:05 PM PST up reply actions

thank you

that's what I thought, I just wasn't 100% sure.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Mar 5, 2008 4:06 PM PST up reply actions

The best way to keep that straight

is to draw out the truth table.

Yes, this is what a degree in Philosophy gets you.

Nor is the negation of Or, so the truth table for Nor should be exactly the opposite of the Or truth table.

A or B

T--T--T
T--T--F
F--T--F
F--F--F

A nor B

T--F--T
T--F--F
F--F--T
F--T--F

Nor is true only in cases where Or is false.

You can do the same thing with Nand and And.

by Llewdor on Mar 5, 2008 4:35 PM PST up reply actions

Nand?

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Mar 5, 2008 6:07 PM PST up reply actions

Nand, if I remember correctly

is basically a contraction of "not-and." Which I think is the functional equivalent of putting a minus in front of a search command in google.

by tworsandtwols on Mar 5, 2008 8:08 PM PST up reply actions

Define:Nand

No results. But if its definition IS the minus sign in front of a search command, then okay.

...and now I'm here

by CapSea on Mar 5, 2008 8:51 PM PST up reply actions

Heh I remember in discrete math

our professor said we learned more in a week than his daughter did in a semester of philosophy.

Raul for DH.

by bluemax on Mar 5, 2008 7:11 PM PST up reply actions

The best way? Really?

How about "neither/nor, either/or"? Keep them together, you'll be fine. The hardest thing about it (for me, anyway) is that so rarely do you hear 'nor' used. It just feels a little weird, because of the unfamiliarity.

Can someone explain what this table is supposed to be? Is there a typo in it, or something? I thought I understood it, but TTT followed by TTF makes no sense to me.

by The Alaskan on Mar 6, 2008 9:37 AM PST up reply actions

The middle truth value

is for the operator. If A is true and B is false, then the statement A or B is true.

So, the statement "A or B" is true in all cases where A is true, and in all cases where B is true. "A or B" is only false when both A and B are false.

Nor works the other way around. "A nor B" is false is all cases where A is true, and in all cases where B is true. "A nor B" is only true when both A and B are false.

by Llewdor on Mar 6, 2008 9:48 AM PST up reply actions

As someone who spends some time with Excel,

I definitely understand the OR and NOR operator functions. My point is that the table doesn't seem right. You said:
A or B
TTT
TTF
FTF
FFF

If I'm understanding you correctly, the first and third columns are A and B, respectively, and the middle column is the conclusion? In that case, FTF is incorrect. Perhaps you meant FTT? If, as I originally assumed, A and B are the first and second columns, then TTF is incorrect.

Clearly I'm getting nit-picky about this. I just wanted to make sure I understood what you were trying to say.

by The Alaskan on Mar 6, 2008 9:58 AM PST up reply actions

I did. I didn't notice that typo

Of course the four states need to be distinct. TT, TF, FT, FF.

by Llewdor on Mar 7, 2008 1:57 PM PST up reply actions

Whatever

ESPN can keep bashing metrics that go beyond runs and wins. Meanwhile, slowly but certainly more and more people will discover Baseball Prospectus, the Hardball Times, and sites like this.

Screw ESPN.

Yesterday's Pants

by Katal LM on Mar 5, 2008 3:10 PM PST reply actions