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The New Mike Cameron

I'm not talking about some up-and-coming hotshot CF with good power and a fresh glove. I'm talking about a solid all-around player who's currently getting the royal screwjob from his home park. Between 2000-2003, Mike Cameron put up a .701 OPS in Seattle and an .884 OPS on the road. The deep left-center power alley absolutely slaughtered his offensive skillset, leaving him as a problem bat for 81 games a year. His struggles were very well publicized, and you couldn't help but get the feeling that Safeco got into his head.

Cammy moved on in December '03. Enter Khalilbot.

This is my Petco sad face.

2004-2007, home: 1093 plate appearances, .230/.292/.377, 0.72 GB/FB, 7.6% HR/FB, 17.7% LD, .272 BABIP

This is my not-Petco happy face.

2004-2007, road: 1126 plate appearances, .280/.334/.511, 0.80 GB/FB, 12.4% HR/FB, 20.7% LD, .305 BABIP

We're not dealing with small samples, here. You've got basically two full seasons' worth of data for each split, and the data's showing that Khalil loses a staggering 21% of his OPS when he's playing at home. This isn't a case of a park making a great hitter seem good, or a decent hitter seem bad; this is a park making a good hitter seem awful. That's...that's extreme is what that is, and it's the exact same thing that happened to Cammy (who also happened to lose 21% of his OPS in Seattle).

What's going on? Well, Petco might be the most pitcher-friendly ballpark in baseball, armed with a huge outfield and power alleys of doom. It reduces almost everything imaginable, including groundballs and line drives. It is not a good location for a dead-pull righty hitter like Khalil to put up big numbers.

That explains a chunk of it. But it doesn't explain all of it. None of Khalil's teammates have been ruined nearly as much. It's tough for everyone, but Khalil's the only guy that it out-and-out murders.

That's stupid. I don't know why Khalil's so much worse off than anyone else, but he is, and the evidence is right there. It's a shame, too, because he's a good defensive shortstop, and if the Padres played in a friendlier ballpark he'd probably get the same kind of fringey MVP consideration as Shannon Stewart a few years back. And we all know that in a competition that close, Khalil could win with his personality.

Khalil Greene is a better player than Mike Young, and it's criminally unjust that Young's locked up to an $80m/5yr extension while Greene will have to make do with something far less substantial. Could someone please remind me why baseball continues to tolerate extreme ballparks? Because I don't get it.

0 recs | Comment 32 comments

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Tradition
When life gives you scurvy, make lemonade.

by Mariner John on Feb 13, 2008 7:35 PM PST   0 recs

Diversity.
Im sure Khalil Greene would say that...

...but not with a straight face.

Yet should he joke, that would make HIM diverse...

My head hurts.

by Slica on Feb 13, 2008 7:38 PM PST   0 recs

KhalilBot does not joke
KhalilBot also does not have emotions

by Nick S on Feb 13, 2008 8:03 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Why don't they just reprogram him for Petco?
Like Vicki in Small Wonder, I am sure there is an access panel in his back.

by jtopps on Feb 14, 2008 8:47 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

One of the guys I share M's tickets with
Dated the girl who played Vicki when we were in college.  All you have to do is sing the "Small Wonder" theme song and he turns red.

by Sec 108 on Feb 14, 2008 9:05 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Look familiar?
http://wat.midco.net/jvipond/images/TiffBrissette.gif
You scratch our backs, we'll scratch yours. Well Jules, the funny thing about my back is that it's located on my $#%&.

by AZSEAfan on Feb 14, 2008 9:53 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

She was about 18 when I met here
And pretty damn attractive too.  Much cuter than Khalil IMO.

by Sec 108 on Feb 14, 2008 9:58 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

When Cammy left I was sad for me
But happy for him.  It was annoying to listen to people ripping on him in the bleachers at the end of his time here.

I know my friend who has Padres tickets loves Greene.  Is he a beloved player in San Diego or does he draw the ire of the local fans there like Cammy did here?

by Sec 108 on Feb 13, 2008 7:51 PM PST   0 recs

By the way
the first comment in that Gaslamp Ball thread is one of my favorite comments in SBN history.

by Jeff on Feb 13, 2008 8:11 PM PST   0 recs

They need to have an episode of the Terminator
series where Sarah/John/Cameron end up at a Padres game, and Khalibot ends up being one of the Terminators.
These pretzels....are making me thirsty!

by Goose on Feb 13, 2008 8:20 PM PST   0 recs

no, what they really need to do
is never show another TV episode of Terminator for as long as I live.

by Matthew on Feb 13, 2008 8:22 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Yeah know, it's actually kinda growing on me.
As long as you accept that it takes place in a different time line than T3(and possibly T4), it starts to get a little better. As a stand alone series, it's not that bad.
These pretzels....are making me thirsty!

by Goose on Feb 13, 2008 8:29 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Also, I thought last weeks episode was very good
and has me very much looking forward to this weeks episode.
These pretzels....are making me thirsty!

by Goose on Feb 13, 2008 8:49 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Am I a heretic for saying...?
I think it's too far saying Khalil "No, I'm not white if you were wondering" Greene is actually better than Michael effing Young.

Disprove me.

by yourfacemakesmewail on Feb 13, 2008 8:21 PM PST   0 recs

They're both products of their parks
also, defense. Always include defense.

by Jeff on Feb 13, 2008 8:48 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Once you take into account
that one plays in an extreme pitcher's park and the other in an extreme hitter's park, Young is only slightly better on offense.

Offensively, Greene is around a league average hitter. Young, except for 2005, is a slightly above  league average hitter, say, 5-10 runs above average.  

Defensively, Young is regularly one of the worse SS's in MLB, 20-30 runs below average.

Greene, while no Tulowitzki or even Reyes, is decent to good, about 5 runs above average.

In 2005, Young's hitting was more than enough to make up for his bad D. In other years, no.

visiting A's fan.

by rfloh on Feb 13, 2008 9:39 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I like the different parks
I think its cool.  I don't care if it royaly fucks players.  As long as you don't have a post or hill in the OF you can put the fences within reason where ever you want and I think it makes it more interesting.

by Edgar for Pres on Feb 13, 2008 11:05 PM PST   0 recs

I suppose it wouldn't be as big of a problem
if GMs were smarter. But I still think that places like San Diego and Philly should undergo a few changes.

by Jeff on Feb 13, 2008 11:09 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Maybe we can sign Greene
to an undervalued deal when he hits free agency and all the other GMs don't realize how valuable he is.

What?

Stop laughing.

by Matthew on Feb 13, 2008 11:16 PM PST   0 recs

question?
Where did he play in college?  I thought it was Clemson, but now I'm thinking somewhere in CA.  But wow, good catch, those splits will cost him millions.  

by billy1 on Feb 13, 2008 11:46 PM PST   0 recs

Clemson indeed
I was watching an interview with him the other day on one of our local channels. They mentioned - and I have since verified - that in his senior year at Clemson, after turning down a contract offer from the Cubs (who drafted him the summer before), he hit .470, with 27 home runs in 71 games.

Those are Nintendo numbers.

by Jeff on Feb 13, 2008 11:51 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Watched him
in the CWS I think, that year, he was all the rage.  Now I remember, what's up with no stirrups? Goofy.  Jeff, or Matthew, what would you guess that he will lose based on his home park?  I would hope that SD would give him some love, but on the open market?  

by billy1 on Feb 14, 2008 12:25 AM PST   0 recs

I'd say he'd get about 75%
of what he's actually worth (conversely, M. Young is overpaid to what he's actually worth).

by Matthew on Feb 14, 2008 12:29 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

He's definitely a weird-looking dude
that's a big part of why he's such a fan favorite down here.

Greene's still under team control, and he just signed an $11m/2yr deal to buy out the remainder of his arby years. If he sustains his current level of performance as he heads into free agency as a 30 year old, he'll probably deserve to be a ~$12-14m/yr player, but I could see him settling for Jack Wilson money ($20m/3yr). He might have a shot at the Orlando Cabrera contract ($32m/4yr). But that would still be less than half of what Young got.

Petco's going to end up costing Greene tens of millions of dollars. Meanwhile, the environment in Texas has enabled Young to be able to buy the Lesser Antilles.

by Jeff on Feb 14, 2008 12:57 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I'm glad I investigated why you wrote this.
Funny stuff.

LD*%=[[(LD%)[(OFB%)+(IFB%)+(HR%)+(LD%)]]-[100-(r:LDBIA%)]/100*[[(LD%)[(OFB%)+(IFB%)+(HR%)+(LD%)]]- [(laLD%)/[(laLD%)+(laOFB%)+(laIFB%)+(laHR%)]]]][100-[(K%)+(BB*%)+(HBP*%)+(GB*%)]]

...and now I'm here

by Librocrat on Feb 14, 2008 1:17 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Some hitters seem to crumple under
the pressure of performing in parks that aren't well suited to them.

Remember Cirillo?

by Llewdor on Feb 14, 2008 9:10 AM PST   0 recs

No
I try not to.

by Limerickx on Feb 14, 2008 12:10 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

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