Navigation: Jump to content areas:

Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Indy 500: 'Greatest Spectacle In Racing' Set For Sunday

Winter Meetings Open Thread

Wbc_029_tiny by Jeff Sullivan on in Seattle Mariners Regular News

weeeeeeee

The Red Sox do need a right-handed hitting fourth outfielder. The name of Willie [Ballgame] continues to pop up in many quarters. He would be much cheaper and more reliable than Rocco Baldelli, whose health makes his presence questionable.

Comment 239 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Hahahahaha!

BOOYA! You got Slurved!

by Slurvey on Dec 8, 2008 3:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Exact same skillset.

Both are gritty, hustle, and have the same amount of nominal mitochondrial function. The problem is that Rocco has more size and muscle, and therefore less function per unit volume. Like I said, same skillset.

Can't wait for Ruskell to knock this one out of the park.

by abender20 on Dec 8, 2008 3:02 PM PST up reply actions  

They do need a Short Stop

I am no longer in Spokane, but I think I'll keep the name anyway.

by InSpokane on Dec 8, 2008 3:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Ok.

I am no longer in Spokane, but I think I'll keep the name anyway.

by InSpokane on Dec 8, 2008 3:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I was going off of what a coworker said this morning. He is a complete idiot fan so assumed he knew what is was talk about.

My Ok. was me taking your word for it.

I am no longer in Spokane, but I think I'll keep the name anyway.

by InSpokane on Dec 8, 2008 3:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I really meant to say he is NOT a complete idiot fan

I am no longer in Spokane, but I think I'll keep the name anyway.

by InSpokane on Dec 8, 2008 3:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I really don't want to believe this.

I’ve read reports that he probably won’t stick at short, but UZR thought he was good (in a tiny sample size, of course). And his BABIP was pretty high. And I have an irrational dislike of him so I don’t care what you say.

by Teej on Dec 8, 2008 3:42 PM PST up reply actions  

His BABIP was high because his LD was high

He’s not going to be a world wrecker or anything, but he’s a decent little shortstop.

by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 8, 2008 3:53 PM PST up reply actions  

the point of rec's are?

(other than knowing that e-people e-love you)

Can't wait for Ruskell to knock this one out of the park.

by abender20 on Dec 8, 2008 3:43 PM PST up reply actions  

So...

5:06pm: Cubs manager Lou Piniella asked Seattle reporters today whether Ibanez can play right field.

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on Dec 8, 2008 3:11 PM PST reply actions  

Yes he can.

BOOYA! You got Slurved!

by Slurvey on Dec 8, 2008 3:12 PM PST up reply actions  

I can play QB for the cowboys, then.

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on Dec 8, 2008 3:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Exactly!

BOOYA! You got Slurved!

by Slurvey on Dec 8, 2008 3:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Can you poorly hold field goals though?

I hear that’s a requirement for becoming a quarterback for the Cowboys is the non-ability for holding place kicks

by Fuzz on Dec 8, 2008 10:53 PM PST up reply actions  

I thought Willie had delusions of grandeur about starting in the NL.

"It's reassuring to know that in your life, you can have no more than 32 root canals."
-T. McCarver

by Big Jared on Dec 8, 2008 3:24 PM PST reply actions  

Of course....

Bavasi knows value when he sees it. This doesn’t seem like such a longshot after all.

"It's reassuring to know that in your life, you can have no more than 32 root canals."
-T. McCarver

by Big Jared on Dec 8, 2008 3:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I dunno

Would he take a 4th OF/bench spot on the best team or a starting job with a lesser team? He’s always seemed hell bent on getting that chance to be a real starter.

"It's reassuring to know that in your life, you can have no more than 32 root canals."
-T. McCarver

by Big Jared on Dec 8, 2008 4:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Ya..

WFB would leave the Mariners and win a ring on the Sox. It’s sad how predictable yet possible that is.

by CKremer on Dec 8, 2008 10:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Slightly offtopic

 but does anybody know the reasoning of A-Rod signing with the Rangers so late into the offseason

by Robert on Dec 8, 2008 3:47 PM PST reply actions  

Thats what I thought

but the wikimobile says January 26th 2001

by Robert on Dec 8, 2008 3:49 PM PST up reply actions  

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2000/12/11/rangers_arod_ap/


“People are talking about the money, but you have to recognize the type of player he is and what he can accomplish,” Oakland general manager Billy Beane said. “And he’s only 25 years old.”

Billy Beane is a smart guy

by JI on Dec 8, 2008 3:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I want Bloomquist to get a starting job somewhere.

I want all of the Bloomquist fans to see what he would do when “given his chance to start”. It would be great to see him in Texas or with the Angels for 150 games.
It wouldn’t change anything. People see what they wanted to see.

by mark sobba on Dec 8, 2008 4:01 PM PST reply actions  

Nah, couldn't happen.

With Willits, there’d be too much grit.

by Coach Owens on Dec 8, 2008 4:05 PM PST up reply actions  

What?

Nah. couldn’t happen. = Two fragments, was a good sentence before
With Willits. There’d be too much grit. = Two fragments, comma works

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Dec 8, 2008 4:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Coach is just drunk

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Dec 8, 2008 4:13 PM PST up reply actions  

but you used them all correctly in this instance

even if inadvertently.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Dec 8, 2008 4:14 PM PST up reply actions  

At least I don't use the British version

of English! Do you say aluminum that weird way they do?

by Coach Owens on Dec 8, 2008 4:16 PM PST up reply actions  

They spell words differently.

Like “Metres” instead of “Meters”, “Realise” instead of “Realize” and others.

by Coach Owens on Dec 8, 2008 4:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm saying that of course they do

but why the fuck does it matter?

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Dec 8, 2008 4:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes but when you grow up learning to spell words

a certain way then it’s a bit strange to see it spelled a different way, no?

by Coach Owens on Dec 8, 2008 4:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Well it's just like getting used to the time difference

when you go to a different country. Your brain is so used to what you experience every day that it’s strange to experience something different.

by Coach Owens on Dec 8, 2008 4:34 PM PST up reply actions  

I think that's his point.

Not everyone has to jump all over him because of that.

Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.

by BrettJMiller on Dec 8, 2008 4:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Meh, I guess it used to be funny...

It just seems like LL has become “How can I say something that’s just a little bit ruder than the last comment to get a laugh.”

Yeah, Coach’s argument was stupid, and this is a typical Coach type of meltdown that has become legendary in LL lore, but maybe it’s a combination of everything here lately that makes this seem unnecessary and like people are trying to force the humor. The whole being a dick to be funny fad was fun for awhile, but it seems like it’s a bit out of control these days.

Not that this is the worst example of dickishness or anything, just seemed like as good a place as any to mention it.

Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.

by BrettJMiller on Dec 8, 2008 5:26 PM PST up reply actions  

You should have waited for something more flagrant

because we were actually being pretty kind to Coach.

by JI on Dec 8, 2008 5:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Brett thinks Tucker Max is funny

Brett is therefore not the arbiter of when things are funny.

by Graham MacAree on Dec 8, 2008 6:13 PM PST up reply actions  

He's certainly dead on with this though
The whole being a dick to be funny fad was fun for awhile, but it seems like it’s a bit out of control these days.

by Goose on Dec 8, 2008 9:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Their English came first

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Dec 8, 2008 4:26 PM PST up reply actions  

They invented it, we perfected it, right Coach?

After all, we have more people working on it, so it’s gotta be better.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Dec 8, 2008 4:27 PM PST up reply actions  

The English invented cricket, the Indians perfected it

so that’s a nice consolation prize for them.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Dec 8, 2008 4:29 PM PST up reply actions  

That's true

Indian Speed Cricket is the coolest game ever

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Dec 8, 2008 4:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Actually...

If you believe linguistic theories, U.S. English is actually closer to the original English since colonization and isolation from other linguistic influences kept it purer…

This signature space for rent.

by PositivePaul on Dec 8, 2008 7:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Isolation from other linguistic influences?

you mean influences like the, oh I dunno, Irish, Germans, Swedes, Jews, Chinese, Japanese, Russians, Indians, Italians, West Africans, Carribes, Cubans, Scots, Armenians, Poles, Latinos, Portuguese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Arab, Persian and some other immigrants who have come here and influenced the way American English is spoken? Yes, yes I suppose you’re right.

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 8, 2008 8:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Canadians spell words funny too

That’s why our healthcare is superior and our currency is worth more.

by JI on Dec 8, 2008 4:28 PM PST up reply actions  

No it's not

C$1=US$.80

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Dec 8, 2008 4:30 PM PST up reply actions  

yeee-ouch

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Dec 8, 2008 4:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Maybe because he's English?

Don’t show your age so much.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Dec 8, 2008 4:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Al-yoo-min-ee-um

I believe he is eluding to that.

"It's reassuring to know that in your life, you can have no more than 32 root canals."
-T. McCarver

by Big Jared on Dec 8, 2008 4:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Arrraghh!

Dammit.

"It's reassuring to know that in your life, you can have no more than 32 root canals."
-T. McCarver

by Big Jared on Dec 8, 2008 4:26 PM PST up reply actions  

no harm no foul

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Dec 8, 2008 4:28 PM PST up reply actions  

It's optional there

It looks nice for separation but you don’t speak it

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Dec 8, 2008 4:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree that it reads better with no comma

But I’m not sure that you’d get marked down- it’s sort of an archaic usage of the comma, one that would be indisputably acceptable about 50 years ago, but I think it’s still acceptable enough that you would not get marked down, particularly by an older teacher

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Dec 8, 2008 4:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Local press chats with Zduriencik

* Zduriencik said that Brandon Morrow’s conversion to a starter will continue, but admitted that it could change if personnel moves were made. He said that’s the case with any player. But as of now, they are looking at Morrow as a starter. If they trade Putz, maybe that changes.

Hmmm… I don’t really know how I feel about the idea that Morrow starting and trading Putz may be mutually exclusive.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 8, 2008 5:31 PM PST reply actions  

I think he's mostly just saying that to please the media

Since they seem hellbent on him being a closer.

I’d be shocked if Morrow weren’t a starter come opening day

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Dec 8, 2008 5:32 PM PST up reply actions  

If you believe in WPA then closers should be really valuable

I’ve been wanting a little explanation on this for a while.

Closers have high WPA because the team is able to leverage the innings a pitcher is in and since he is very good, is able to accumulate high WPA totals which makes him valuable to the team.

Starting pitchers operate in lower leverage situations but pitch many more innings so if they are above average, they too can rack up a good WPA but only the top SP can do this.

Starting pitchers can often get better “runs allowed” metrics because they pitch so many innings. If pitcher A has 220 IP and RA of 4.25 and pitcher B has 60 IP and a RA of 2.50 (with the average RA being 5), pitcher A will be 18 runs above average and pitcher B will be 17 runs above average.

If you use WPA to put a value on a player then isn’t it easier to justify making Morrow a closer. If you use “runs above average” then it is probably easier to justify using him as a starting pitcher since just looking at runs ignores the impact of leverage.

(In the discussion above a closer is defined as a very good relief pitcher used in high leverage situations. Todd Jones is not a closer. Carlos Marmol is a “closer”.)

by Edgar for Pres on Dec 8, 2008 8:15 PM PST up reply actions  

That's exactly why WPA is a fun way of looking at what happened during a game

but should not, not, not be used for any sort of player evaluation

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Washingtonhighways.org

by Corco on Dec 8, 2008 8:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Morrow may indeed be more valuable as a closer than as a starter

but for one thing, his repertoire suggests that this may not always be true, and for another, a good reliever is a lot easier to find than a good starter. So for these reasons the team owes it to itself to give Morrow as many chances to start as it can, I think.

by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 8, 2008 9:14 PM PST up reply actions  

If good relievers are easier to find than good starters

should WPA take this into account and control for this.

I agree with you. I’m mostly just wondering about which way is better for evaluating player contribution because not all runs are made equally. I bet the runs saved by a bullpen are probably 50% more valuable than the runs saved by a team’s defense or starting pitching. A team full of cheap relief pitching can easily be an average bullpen if you have an intelligent GM but there might be a real advantage to actually investing in great relief pitching.

by Edgar for Pres on Dec 8, 2008 9:39 PM PST up reply actions  

You'd just have to look at the leverage values

If I recall from memory, innings thrown by upper-level relievers tend to have ~twice the leverage of innings thrown by starters.

by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 8, 2008 9:44 PM PST up reply actions  

We can't really ask WPA to be something it's not.

Which is an accounting of a single game. By design, the late innings are going to be more crucial because of the limited opportunities that remain.

I can at least understand the argument that WPA helps you figure out which hitters were more “valuable” if you think that’s actually how you should vote for MVP (which many people do). Using it for pitchers doesn’t seem wise.

by Teej on Dec 8, 2008 9:44 PM PST up reply actions  

WPA for pitchers is totally valid (except it doesn't take into account defense)

It has more uses than just the MVP race.

Late innings are more critical but to cash in and earn high WPA you need to perform well. Relief pitchers can only take advantage of the high leverage situations if they are better than the average relief pitcher used in high leverage situations.

by Edgar for Pres on Dec 8, 2008 9:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Dont forget, though

That its a lot easier to find a Carlos Marmol or Pat Neshek than it is to find a James Shields or Jon Lester.

Its harder to find good solid SP than good solid RP.

by CKremer on Dec 8, 2008 10:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Elite RP's are just as hard to find as Elite SP's

But it’s easier to find that stop-gap guy who will fill a role for a year or two while you either farm an elite pitcher or find one on the market

by Fuzz on Dec 8, 2008 11:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Zduriencik's a smart dude and a scout at heart. And Brandon Morrow is a scout's pitcher.

He’s big, he’s young and he throws in the high 90s. I can’t imagine Z looking at that dude and all his potential and deciding to put him in the bullpen. Especially if he’s trying to put together a plan for long-term success, which I think we can assume.

by Teej on Dec 8, 2008 5:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Hard to see Morrow's transition to being a starter not continuing at this point.

And “maybe” that changes if Putz is moved but I don’t see it happening. Wouldn’t be hard to find bullpen help.

by ThundaPC on Dec 8, 2008 5:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Zduriencik can't be that dumb.

I don’t know anything about baseball and I know that would be a dumb idea.

by mark sobba on Dec 8, 2008 7:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Rotoworld
Free-agent Jason Giambi has told friends that he expects to sign with the A’s, but his former team has him “way down on its list of priorities,” sources told FOXSports.com’s Ken Rosenthal.
Giambi supposedly wants a three-year deal, though that’s completely unrealistic. Two years might be possible, but one year remains more likely. He seems like a much worse fit with the A’s in the wake of the Matt Holliday deal. Perhaps there’s a chance they could use him at DH, Jack Cust in left field and Holliday in right, but it’s not likely at all.

by JI on Dec 8, 2008 7:18 PM PST reply actions  

ESPN
Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti told ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark on Monday that he ran into [C.C. Sabathia] agent on Sunday night in a hotel lobby and the left-hander told him that he wants to be a Dodger.

No real surprise here, but at least it’s not Anaheim.

by Wilder. on Dec 8, 2008 7:27 PM PST reply actions  

ARGH!

The Diamondbacks are working to re-sign Tony Clark, presumably to a one-year deal.

Again? AGAIN? God, why do they keep fucking bringing this guy back!?

by Goose on Dec 8, 2008 8:09 PM PST reply actions  

Tony Clark's a good dude

At spring training he was the one guy who’d talk with every single fan and sign stuff for everybody. But yeah probably done as a hitter.

by Nick S on Dec 8, 2008 10:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Worth taking a flyer on if he gets that far?
Because of his elbow woes, Takashi Saito could be non-tendered by the Dodgers if he doesn’t agree to terms this week.
Saito is eligible for arbitration for the first time and would be a very interesting case, given both his extreme success and his recent health issues. The Dodgers would have to give him a raise from the $2 million he made last season in order to re-sign him, but they wouldn’t want to risk him being awarded $5 million or more by an arbitrator.

by Goose on Dec 8, 2008 9:47 PM PST reply actions  

YES BOB YES!
Diamondbacks manager Bob Melvin said he plans to open 2009 with Chad Tracy at first base, Conor Jackson in left field and Eric Byrnes in a reserve role.

$11M for a 4th outfielder. Wooo!

by Goose on Dec 9, 2008 3:37 AM PST reply actions  

Also, K-Rod to the Mets?

SI.com’s Jon Heyman expects the Mets and Francisco Rodriguez to agree to a three-year deal worth about $37 million.
K-Rod certainly would have had more earnings potential if he had elected for a one-year deal with the chance to go back on the market next winter. However, the difference between $12 million per year and $15 million per year has a lot more to do with status than any real world consequences. At least this deal is still bigger than the three-year, $34 million contract he turned down from the Angels a year ago.

by Goose on Dec 9, 2008 3:38 AM PST reply actions  

Baker playing GM..

discussing trading Beltre for Delmon Young. Brilliant Geoff, just brilliant.

by DarkLou on Dec 9, 2008 4:56 PM PST reply actions  

think

of how sad Willie would be without his thriving fanbase of 60 year old retired soccer moms. And who would they love now?!!? WHERE’S BRET BOONE?!?

http://marinersmania.com/forums

by outtathequestion on Dec 9, 2008 9:03 PM PST reply actions  

hmm.

Willie’s fans all seem to be middle-aged or older guys…

by msb on Dec 10, 2008 8:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed

Search

User Tools

By reading a game thread of your own volition you agree to accept all liability for any and all damage done to your delicate sensibilities.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Starlin Castro's fit with Seattle

by styks 3 days ago

31 comments

Kawasaki80_small
Lists! So many lists!

by J0SER 3 days ago

7 comments | 1 recs

M_s_hat_copy_small
OT -- May 22nd In Memoriam

by seattle_since_81 4 days ago

250 comments | 2 recs

Ichiro_small
Why do managers and media members hate walks?

by Smegmalicious 8 days ago

21 comments

Wbc_029_small
Friday Morning Music Thread

by Jeff Sullivan 8 days ago

49 comments

Small
Dustin Ackley BP swing vs game swing

by grante2 9 days ago

7 comments

Beastquakerwallpaper_small
More on the Struggles of Smoak

by Ben Knibbe 10 days ago

5 comments | 1 recs

Randy2_for_sbn_small
Albert Pujols 2012: Three Retrospectives

by fiftyone 12 days ago

3 comments | 1 recs

Small
On Batting Orders

by riverdog 12 days ago

23 comments

Niehaus_small
More on Dustin Ackley and the strikezone

by JLC 15 days ago

6 comments | 12 recs

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Recent Posts

Yahoo_full_count

In Association With

Baseball Nation Recent Stories

PHILADELPHIA, PA - Cliff Lee of the Philadelphia Phillies throws a pitch against the Boston Red Sox during the first inning of a MLB interleague baseball game. Lee took the loss as the Red Sox defeated the Phillies 5-1. (Photo by Rich Schultz/Getty Images)

The Good And Winless

Third baseman Chone Figgins of the Seattle Mariners misplays this grounder by Jeff Mathis of the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim at Safeco Field on in Seattle, Washington. Figgins was charged with an error on the play. (Photo by Otto Greule Jr/Getty Images)

Chone Figgins: M's Won't Play Him, Won't Dump Him

Clearwater FL, USA; Pittsburgh Pirates center fielder Nate McLouth (2) before the game against the Philadelphia Phillies at Bright House Field. Mandatory Credit: Daniel Shirey-US PRESSWIRE

Pirates DFA One-Season Wonder Nate McLouth

More from Baseball Nation >

Sexy People

Wbc_029_small Jeff Sullivan

Small Matthew

Claw_small JY