Sabermetrics books/games

by Vatinius on Dec 4, 2008 3:58 PM PST Comment 40 comments

So I've been lurking around here for about a year but I've never really felt the need post anything. Now though, I'm looking to buy my dad either a good Sabermetrics book or a stat heavy baseball sim for christmas this year and I was wondering if any of you stat-addicts knew some good ones?

I was thinking of The Book by Tom Tango or Out of the Park Baseball 9. If you guys have any better recomendations I'd appreciate it.

Also, while I'm here...

When you park adjust tRA, is it only adjusted based on pitchers' home stadium and the assumption that half their games will be there, or is it adjusted based on where a pitcher actually pitched his innings?

So (hypothetically) if Carlos Silva, by some statistical fluke, managed to do 120 innings of his suckage in hitter friendly parks and only 33.3 in pitcher friendly parks, would tRA account for that and produce a slightly lower number, or would it in fact produce a slightly higher number becuase of his home park being pitcher friendly?

And while we're on the topic, who do you think would win in a hot dog eating contest, Carlos Silva or a Velociraptor?

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I really like Baseball Between the Numbers as a stats book.

When you park adjust tRA, is it only adjusted based on pitchers’ home stadium and the assumption that half their games will be there, or is it adjusted based on where a pitcher actually pitched his innings?

The former.

by Graham on Dec 4, 2008 4:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I second this.

I found BP’s book a great way to get started in this stuff. It’s got some humor in there, and it’s written more for a layman than some of the stuff I’ve seen.

I also bought a book called “Curve Ball,” but it was a bit dense for my tastes so I didn’t get very far. I haven’t read “The Book” yet, but that seems to be pretty highly respected.

by Teej on Dec 4, 2008 4:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thirded.

I like the way BBtN is written, starting each chapter with a question, sometimes one that at first seems impossible to answer. They then methodically work through what information/stats are needed to answer the question, and explain the process behind all of it. If I recall, the Bonds vs Ruth chapter is first, and it’s a great start for the book.

the other angels fan

by Eyebrows on Dec 4, 2008 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Fourthed

BBtN was a great way to get my feet wet.

by Robert on Dec 4, 2008 5:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

James Click owns so hard.

I’m glad the Rays hired him.

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 4, 2008 5:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Fifthed. *Reiterates what they said.

Indie.

by Taylor H on Dec 4, 2008 6:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I would say buy The Book.

As far as games go, it really depends on how much immersion and time/detail you think would be good. I used to be a voracious OOTP player, but the last few iterations, after they merged (and subsequently left) Sports Interactive, it’s become so bloated that I have a hard getting into it anymore and really stopped playing.

by Matthew on Dec 4, 2008 4:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I've read the Fielding Bible, The Book, and Baseball Between the Numbers.

Baseball Between the Numbers was my personal favorite. The Fielding Bible is obviously more focused on one aspect of the game if that’s what you’re looking for. The Book, while it had some great content in there, got a little too far in depth for me. I seem to remember reading like 50 pages about the sacrifice bunt at one point and had to just put it down.

by CKel on Dec 4, 2008 4:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I must read The Book.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Dec 4, 2008 4:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

So must Mike Scioscia apparently

by Vatinius on Dec 4, 2008 4:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmm...this is not a bad idea.

I have about $100 worth of Gift Cards for Barnes and Noble and for quite some time I wasn’t sure what to use it on.

Looks like I’ll be giving The Book and BBtN a shot. Anyone got any others?

by ThundaPC on Dec 4, 2008 5:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

(Nice work, by the way. The AL West and Rays articles were great.)

Sucking up the mods aside, there really is a shit-ton of good writing and analysis in it, and — just like last year — there are only one or two articles I might skip over just because they’re not really my thing. But as a whole, it’s worth your $22 and a lot more.

I like the BP annual for the PECOTA stuff, but as far as writing content, the THT book blows it out of the water. At least it has the past two years that I’ve been paying attention.

by Teej on Dec 4, 2008 10:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes it really is good stuff.

And I’ve used it as a conservation starter with a girl too.

by Robert on Dec 4, 2008 10:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That is unfortunate.

by Teej on Dec 4, 2008 10:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Why would you say that?

by JI on Dec 4, 2008 10:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I try to hide my baseball self from women.

Until I trap them, of course. Then it’s all good.

by Teej on Dec 4, 2008 10:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

After this so do I!

by Robert on Dec 4, 2008 10:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What if she wanted to talk about it first?

by JI on Dec 4, 2008 10:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I would feel a mix of "awesome!" and "this might be a dude!"

by Teej on Dec 4, 2008 10:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs

You are sharper than most

http://www.draysbay.com/2008/7/31/583769/trade-deadline-open-thread#7785306

by JI on Dec 4, 2008 10:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You guys amaze me with your archiving skills.

by Teej on Dec 4, 2008 10:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I am the Brian Giles to Robert's Ted Williams

by JI on Dec 4, 2008 10:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey.

by NOLAmarinergirl on Dec 5, 2008 8:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yet environmentally friendly...

by patsfan on Dec 4, 2008 10:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The last BP I bought was 2007(?)

And while I enjoyed the comments in the prior editions, many of the comments were just downright mean spirited without being funny. It was like the was a contest to see who could include the most zingers, and all the authors failed miserably. It was neither fun nor informative. I can’t think of anything BP is good for besides the 3rd order standings.

by JI on Dec 4, 2008 10:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The main reason I re-upped this year is Kevin Goldstein.

There might be better options for minor league news. (And I’m open to suggestions. I should probably just put my money toward Baseball America.)

Kind of ironic that I go to BP for scouting reports.

by Teej on Dec 4, 2008 10:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

2007 is my last copy, too

They just started to say way too many wrong things for me to want to read it anymore.

I still subscribe online for the PECOTA projections, but now that Dan Fox is gone and Nate Silver seems to be removing himself from the baseball arena and I can’t really stand Joe Sheehan and Will Carroll and Chris Karhl anymore, I don’t even know if I’ll re-up for next year.

by ubelmann on Dec 4, 2008 10:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I find the chats to be entertaining.

But those are free, so I should probably stop spending money.

by Teej on Dec 4, 2008 10:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I hate Will Carroll so much.

If there’s a mic and a camera somewhere, he’s trying to get in front of it.

I like Christina Kahrl’s writing a lot, but she and KG are the only thing worth reading anymore. I really don’t even bother to visit the site. I don’t think I’m going to re-up when my time runs out.

the other angels fan

by Eyebrows on Dec 5, 2008 9:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I bought OOTP 2007 and tried played it

I have yet to get into it.

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 4, 2008 9:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

tried to play it

that’s how bad it is – it affects your grammar

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 4, 2008 9:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Do they have roster updates for OOTP 2002 for 09?

by Robert on Dec 4, 2008 9:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Unlikely.

by HARRYP09 on Dec 4, 2008 9:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I bought it, too.

I couldn’t get into it. But I’ve never been a big sim fan and was just giving it a test-run. I think I wasted my money. Not because the game isn’t good, but because it just isn’t my thing.

by Teej on Dec 4, 2008 10:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Bill James Historical Abstract, Second Edition is working well for my father.

You didn’t really indicate how much your dad is into the math side of the game. I’m not very math intensive, but my dad is as well as a big fan of the history of the players. This one is extremely approachable, the explanations of how he isolates events on the field of play are terrific. Pretty simplistic as far the math involved, but the explanation of his logical process is what makes it fascinating.
His breakdown of the greatest players by position sounds kind of dry, but he gives a brief history of the player, short anecdotes, things like that. Made a great birthday gift, he’s still talking about it.

by dpseadv on Dec 4, 2008 10:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Oh shit, good call.

I have that by my bedside and look at it sporadically. Absolutely full of good shit. I never saw the old ones, as I was a bit late to idea of modern baseball analysis, but he is a hell of a writer.

by Teej on Dec 4, 2008 10:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It just screams Father's Day Gift in neon, it's making for a great jumping off point.

I’m sort of thinking of reading the first one now. In the introduction where he flat out states most of the first one was wrong, and he’s responsible for perpetuating or being the source for so much that is wrong with sabremetrics, that really got my attention. Not that I know anything about sabremetrics other than the fact it exists.
The thing that worries me about reading the original, I’d probably get them all mixed up in my head and start falling back on faulty premises. Not that it matters, 8 years from now he’ll publish another one and say the same thing.

by dpseadv on Dec 4, 2008 11:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs