Shortstop Roundup

by JI on Dec 4, 2008 1:00 PM PST Comment 68 comments

It's offical:

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - Edgar Renteria became the second free agent to join the San Francisco Giants in as many days, receiving an $18.5 million, two-year contract to replace 11-time Gold Glove shortstop Omar Vizquel.
"He is a complete player on both sides of the ball, a clutch performer and a winner," Giants general manager Brian Sabean said in a statement Thursday announcing the deal. "He has the hardware to show it with the awards he has garnered and a World Series ring. We look forward to seeing him in a Giants uniform."

The deal was first reported by FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal.

Renteria gets a $2 million signing bonus, $7 million next year and $9 million in 2010. The Giants have a $10.5 million option for 2011 with a $500,000 buyout.

Renteria is a decent enough bounce back candidate, but I'm not wild about giving him a guaranteed second year.

Via Rotoworld:

The Cardinals are on the verge of acquiring Khalil Greene from the Padres for two relief prospects, according to the New York Post.

The Padres will get Mark Worrell and a player to be named from the Cardinals for Khalil Greene, according to MLB.com.

Greene is owed ~$6m, next season. As noted by reputable sources, Greene has always been a great breakout candidate, espically if one were to remove him from Petco Park, and even if he doesn't bounce back all the way he's still a solid regular. For the price of the midwest version of Sean Green? I love it. welcome to Cardinal Nation, Khalilbot!

UPDATE: The Padres are paying Greene to go away.

According to one club official, the commissioner’s office may need to approve the deal, which likely means that the Padres could be offsetting Greene’s salary by at least $1 million.

SECOND UPDATE: Apparently that part went away.

THIRD UPDATE: Word is the Pads are paying $2m. The only way this would be better is if Towers kept the $2m and instead threw in the rights to Frankenfriar.*

via lh4.ggpht.com

* I like Frankenfriar.

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You can really tell the Padres wanted Greene to go away

by Jeff on Dec 4, 2008 1:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Yup.

Two of the team’s maybe three players who fans actually give a damn about will be gone by the time 2009 comes around.

by Teej on Dec 4, 2008 1:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair

They want Hoffman and Peavy to go away too.

Khalilbot

by JI on Dec 4, 2008 1:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Worrell might be happy to leave too:

MW: Like you said, I pretty much dominated all season. You saw the stats themselves, it is ridiculous the chances and opportunity they have given me over the years. Just look at every year how well I’ve done. For this team not to give me the opportunity or just 13 days in the big leagues, I felt like it was kind of a slap in the face.

http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/818116.html

Khalilbot

by JI on Dec 4, 2008 1:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I really don't think that they knew what to do with Worrell

It was either he was a starter when we needed relief or was slated to do both when we had enough starters

by Fuzz on Dec 4, 2008 6:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Considering the state of last year's bullpen he would have been better than 99% of their relievers.

by JI on Dec 4, 2008 7:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I really like the Greene deal for the Cards.

It appears to be a pure salary dump. His 2008 was legitimately disgusting, but we can’t ignore what he did before that. He’ll obviously strike out a lot and put up a low BA and OBP, but if he can get back on a 25-homer track and keep playing a premium position well, this will be an absolute steal.

by Teej on Dec 4, 2008 1:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I'm not convinced his average will be all that low if he rebounds to the player he was in 2007.

Khalilbot

by JI on Dec 4, 2008 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That's a pretty safe statement.

by TheEmrys on Dec 4, 2008 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He didn't have a good average that year

Khalilbot

by JI on Dec 4, 2008 1:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

His career BA is .248.

Best ever was .273, and that was four years ago. I’m figuring it’ll be in the .250 range. Guess it depends on how define “low.” But with his lack of contact ability and refusal to walk, it’s definitely not going to be high.

by Teej on Dec 4, 2008 2:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Moving out of Petco could make all the difference in the world,

but yeah those concerns are there.

Khalilbot

by JI on Dec 4, 2008 2:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm glad I am not very emotionally invested in the Giants because this singing would piss me off.

I am no longer in Spokane, but I think I'll keep the name anyway.

by InSpokane on Dec 4, 2008 1:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

If you were emotionally invested in the Giants you would also be sick and tired of seeing Bocock and Vizquel out there

Not a great signing, but at least it’s something

Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Washingtonhighways.org

by I'm NOT Corco on Dec 4, 2008 2:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Since I live down here now, Telephone Park is a nice place to watch a game, and its baseball. That's where I'd like to leave it.

However, this is a Bavasi like signing.

I am no longer in Spokane, but I think I'll keep the name anyway.

by InSpokane on Dec 4, 2008 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Read Dave's write up at Fangraphs

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/renteria-to-sf/

I’m cautious about the second year (though you could defend that by saying if he’s good in 109 and 110, the option lets you play with house money in ‘11) because Renteria’s offensive package could evaporate quickly and his defense kinda sucks, but there’s a good chance Renteria is a decent player next year.

Khalilbot

by JI on Dec 4, 2008 2:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

ehh those ones are supposed to be 's

Khalilbot

by JI on Dec 4, 2008 2:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I can't figure out this statement.

“His Marcel for 2009 has him projected as a .285/.345/.417 hitter, good for a .336 wOBA”

How does one go from a .309 wOBA to .336.

I am no longer in Spokane, but I think I'll keep the name anyway.

by InSpokane on Dec 4, 2008 3:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

His 2008 line = .309 wOBA

His projected 2009 line = .336 wOBA

Khalilbot

by JI on Dec 4, 2008 3:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I know

I get that, but how is that possible?

I am no longer in Spokane, but I think I'll keep the name anyway.

by InSpokane on Dec 4, 2008 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

'08 was a massive outlier?

by acblue on Dec 4, 2008 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

His 2008 was pretty far out of line with his established numbers.

His wOBA over the years:

2004: .344
2005: .324
2006: .334
2007: .329
2008: .274

by Teej on Dec 4, 2008 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You and I are talking about the wrong player again.

by acblue on Dec 4, 2008 3:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

God dammit.

by Teej on Dec 4, 2008 3:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Only a retard would turn down Prince for Putz

Khalilbot

by JI on Dec 4, 2008 3:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Loney is better than Howard.

by Teej on Dec 4, 2008 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Last year

Not if Howard bounces back.

Khalilbot

by JI on Dec 4, 2008 3:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I was kidding.

But yes, Howard should be counted on to be better than Loney. Stone glove and all.

by Teej on Dec 4, 2008 3:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Be more absurd when you're kidding.

by JI on Dec 4, 2008 3:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll work on it.

I’m still finding my online voice.

by Teej on Dec 4, 2008 3:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

A friend of mine played with Loney at Elkins HS

Says that the guy was an absolute beast at 1B, but could also pitch with the likes of Kazmir, who he played against

by Fuzz on Dec 4, 2008 7:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Example

wOBA is a sum of a player’s offensive production. If his production depends on his average, then yeah it’s gonna jump around a bit

Khalilbot

by JI on Dec 4, 2008 3:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Let's try this again.

RENTERIA’s wOBA (Fangraphs) over the past few years:

2006: .350
2007: .381
2008: .308

There were some bad years before 2006, too, but I believe Marcel uses the previous three seasons to make projections. So that’s how you’d end up with .336.

by Teej on Dec 4, 2008 3:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Bavasi would've inked Renetria to a 4-year contract at 10 million/yr

I’m skeptical that Renteria’s defense is going to be even tolerable in a few years (PMR rates him as even worse than Betancourt in 2008 and most metrics have him trending to well below average), but it’s a quick fix without the need for a long term contract. Given that most of his rate stats in 2008 as a hitter were in line with his career (along with a uncharacterstically low .290 BABIP), he should be able to bounce back decently.

by JLC on Dec 4, 2008 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That's awesome for the Cards. I was always hoping Khalil Greene would somehow find his way to Seattle.

Indie.

by Taylor H on Dec 4, 2008 1:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I dunno - much as I'd like to like Khalil

His defense is not strong (at least per PMR 2008) and doesn’t appear to me that his offensive profile is any better fit for Safeco than for Petco. I like him better in St. Louis. On balance, I think he’d be more expensive than Yuni and no more valuable.

by xo1 on Dec 4, 2008 2:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I was always under the impression that he was pretty good with the glove.

Much of that is from my eye, I admit. Dewan’s +/- doesn’t have him among the best or the worst, and I don’t pay for the other numbers, so I’m not sure.

by Teej on Dec 4, 2008 2:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Greene has been a league average hitter for most of his career.

I don’t know if he still is, because he collapsed pretty badly last year, but I would be pretty damn surprised if he’s not a better hitter than Yuni going forward. Defensively I think he’s slightly-below-average/average. That makes him significantly better than Yuni.

by acblue on Dec 4, 2008 2:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

More fun with comparisons!

“Carl Everett is a clutch-hitting run producer with power. As a switch-hitter, he provides our lineup with added versatility. Carl is a winner, most recently as a member of the 2005 World Series Champion Chicago White Sox.”

“He is a complete player on both sides of the ball, a clutch performer and a winner,” Giants general manager Brian Sabean said in a statement Thursday announcing the deal. “He has the hardware to show it with the awards he has garnered and a World Series ring.”

by Nick S on Dec 4, 2008 2:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs