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Is it wrong to think about trading Jeff Clement?

Interesting little article over at BBTF.  Its probably written by a Red Sox fan so there is that small hint of irrational thinking.  Still its interesting.  More or less, its talking about what the Red Sox should do to get a good catcher.

One of his suggestions is to trade for a young catcher.  To avoid giving away too many prospects to do this he suggests taking on bloated contracts.  In the M's case he suggests trading for Jeff Clement and Carlos Silva.  You lose Clement who projects to be a good/great catcher if he can stick at the position and stay healthy.  Carlos Silva sucks both as a person and a player.  He is also making 36 million over the next 3 years.  Clement projects to be pretty good and Silva isn't quite as bad of a player as last year shows (although my hatred for him will burn strongly for the next three years) so I don't think this plan makes sense if its a pure salary dump. 

If you say that Clement is a 3 WAR player (4 seasons including arb? I suck at service time.) and Silva is a 1.5 WAR player then we are trading 36 million for Silva and 15 million in Clement arb salary.  We are trading 15.5 WAR * ~6 mil/WAR = 93 million in value at a price of only 51 million effectively giving them 42 million in value.  This means we need to get 42 million in value in return to come out even.  All this is really rough but this pretty clearly shows that this type of trade doesn't make sense if its just a salary dump.  Clement has too much value.  Clement might be around longer than 4 years if I messed his service time up too which would make him even more valuable.

I'd love to get a guy like Lars Anderson if that was possible but maybe we could grab one of their pitchers like Masterdon since they already have too many good SP.  There are ways that this could make sense because we need to get rid of some catchers and Clement has the most value by far and has his fair share of question marks.  With NYY and Tampa looking good next year the Red Sox have a lot of pressure to improve their team.  Their most obvious hole is at catcher and it makes sense in their case if they can get somebody who will help them out.  That motivation plus a pretty tight catcher market might make this the time to sell Clement.

There are a ton of reasons to hold on to Clement and if the return wouldn't be high enough then you definitely hold onto him.  I think it is an interesting thing to think about though.

0 recs  |  Comment 31 comments

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Clements isn't worth 3 wins in 2009

there’s no way he’ll catch enough and hit that well

by JI on Dec 27, 2008 7:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

CHONE has him ~ average at the plate.

so if he’s -5 behind the plate, that’s 3 WAR.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 27, 2008 7:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

According to his Chone page he'd have to be +7 to be worth 3 WAR

and then he’d have to be able to catch 120 games.

by JI on Dec 27, 2008 8:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that doesn't seem possible?

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 27, 2008 9:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

in any case, it seems pretty likely

that his true talent is ~ 3 WAR, right?

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 27, 2008 9:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Theo would laugh if Z asked for Anderson or Masterson.

I’d probably just let Clement go for nothing in exchange if they took back all of Silva’s contract.

But that is just me, somebody who hates nearly every player on our 25 man roster.

by DarkLou on Dec 27, 2008 10:18 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Should rephrase that.

Players I like: Beltre, Gutierrez, Felix, Morrow, RRS, Bedard

Players I would lose sleep over dealing: Felix, Morrow, Beltre

Basically, I couldn’t care less if the rest of the roster was turned over. I dont see much on this 25 man that I couldnt live without

by DarkLou on Dec 27, 2008 11:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Pujols for ARod, CC, and Joe Mauer.

I’d do that trade.

Big Z is the MAN.

by Taylor H on Dec 27, 2008 11:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't do it unless you replaced ARod with someone like Utley

ARod is sort of worth what he gets payed (if you assume that he has been unlucky as opposed to totally un-clutch), but Pujols is about $40 mil worth of unrelenting awesome for $14 mil in salary. Not to mention that ARod is almost 5 years older than Pujols.

Plus that deal would be horrible for everyone else. Where would the Twins even play 1/3 of an Albert Pujols. He’d be about 2’1" and 80 pounds with one thigh muscle and no arms. Although, he would probably still be a better DH than Jose Vidro.

by Vatinius on Dec 28, 2008 12:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Its probably written by a Red Sox fan so there is that small hint large probability of irrational thinking.

Fixed.

It’s not a crazy idea to at least kick the tires, but I’d like to see the M’s hold onto him. Hopefully he lives up to his billing.

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.

by baetown415 on Dec 27, 2008 11:33 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

With an already fixed outfield defense

and hopefully if they improve their infield defense, then Carlos Silva shouldn’t be as bad as he was last year.

by Fin on Dec 27, 2008 11:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh

I was talking about Clement living up to his billing (should I say hype? I kinda hate that word). I think Silva will “bounce back” because of the improved defense, but I don’t think giving up Clement just to get rid of Silva and get a maybe ok player back is a good idea, like some Red Sox fans might like.

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.

by baetown415 on Dec 28, 2008 12:59 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Trading Silva's contract doesn't make much sense if the team isn't looking to compete

for the next year or so. Either way, the Mariners aren’t in the position to dump potentially useful regulars just to get rid of contracts. Nobody should be untouchable, but the idea of packaging Clement and Silva together is a terrible one unless you’re getting real value back.

by Matthew on Dec 28, 2008 1:23 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah all pretty good points

I guess I mostly brought this up because we have a pretty healthy surplus of catching prospects and Boston has a pretty desperate need for a catcher. I think the only way a deal would work is to get one of their top prospects but I think you’d have to think about that type of deal. Didn’t have much else to say past that though. Just thought it might be interesting to kick around.

by Edgar for Pres on Dec 28, 2008 11:32 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Boston almost certainly has better ways of getting a catcher than that

They’d be better off signing any one of the journeyman catch and throw, no bat catchers that get shuffled around each season than picking up Silva’s contract. Particularly considering that a) Clement is questionable behind the plate and b) they have no need whatsoever for starters like Silva.

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 28, 2008 9:37 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Josh Bard

reportedly signed to the Sox for $1.6 mil (non guaranteed major league contract)…. they also picked up Brad Penny on a one year $5mil deal with and additional $3mil if he reaches 160ip.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3797047

Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!

by MfaninAlaska on Dec 29, 2008 12:08 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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