Teixeira -> Yankees ... almost a done deal
Jon Heyman reports that the Yankees are about to ink an 8 year, $180M deal with free agent first baseman Mark Teixeira.
The deal supposedly includes a full no-trade clause.
This makes a total of $423.5M that the Yanks have spent this offseason between Burnett / Sabathia / Teix.
Sucks for the Brewers and the Blue Jays, whose draft picks as compensation keep getting worse.
The AL East should be really, really fun in 2009.
An ESPN source confirms.
Rosenthal says it might be done by the end of the day.
0 recs |
194 comments
Comments
Holy fucking monkey balls
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Dec 23, 2008 12:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
How do you think this makes ME feel?
Sure, the Nats were probably always just the chump bidder there to drive the price up, but still…fucking Yankees. Fucking Red Sox. Fucking last place no-account no-rep team.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
by esoteric on Dec 23, 2008 12:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Yankees could win 92 games an finish in third
by JI on Dec 23, 2008 12:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I really hope they don't get Mike Cameron
by JI on Dec 23, 2008 12:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What's to keep them from doing that?
It's a crazy messed-up world... It's a doggy-dogg world...
by oc on Dec 23, 2008 12:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Melvin said that talks have stopped on the Cameron front.
And that he wants to keep him.
---
Juuuust a bit outside!!
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com
by Jack Moore on Dec 23, 2008 1:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that the Yankees told the Brewers they would have to eat some of Cameron's salary looks hilarious right now.
by Teej on Dec 23, 2008 1:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And it didn't then?
---
Juuuust a bit outside!!
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com
by Jack Moore on Dec 23, 2008 2:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN reports
its done 8yrs 170 mil
Midnight Baseball - No Lights - Only in Alaska!
by MfaninAlaska on Dec 23, 2008 12:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I hear 8/180 + full NTC.
MENDOZA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
by esoteric on Dec 23, 2008 12:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, now I'm seeing 8/170.
Still: MENDOOOOZAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
by esoteric on Dec 23, 2008 12:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
'

It's a crazy messed-up world... It's a doggy-dogg world...
by oc on Dec 23, 2008 12:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is how I feel right now.
I unwrapped my Christmas gift and it turned out to be a live rat sent to me courtesy Dave Kingman.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
by esoteric on Dec 23, 2008 12:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No it's 8/180!
BOOYA! You got Slurved!
by Slurvey on Dec 23, 2008 1:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Steinbrenner's going to flip his lid...
…if they come up short this year. And by short I mean not winning the World Series.
You're trying to kidnap what I've rightfully stolen.
by Sentinel on Dec 23, 2008 12:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Could someone explain to me why the West and Central have automatic playoff berths?
by JI on Dec 23, 2008 12:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Expansion sister cities
Toronto has won two World Series, but at least our division isn’t so effing stacked.
by katal on Dec 23, 2008 12:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't it reported yesterday that the Yankees
were “trimming payroll” this off season? So much for that.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Dec 23, 2008 12:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Hahaha Angels steal the Yankees first round pick away from the Brewers.
Bet they didn’t see that coming.
the other angels fan
by Eyebrows on Dec 23, 2008 12:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Imagine you're a Jays fan right now.
Now your consolation prize for losing Burnett is a THIRD ROUND pick.
Patriotism, Pepper, Professionalism
by esoteric on Dec 23, 2008 12:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
These compensation rules are as stupid as the Elias ratings.
by Sec 108 on Dec 23, 2008 12:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I say if you go over the salary cap in the fashion the Yankees do
they should owe the Brewers their 2010 first rounder, and the Jays their 2011 etc
by JI on Dec 23, 2008 1:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Or they should have to cede future draft picks to the lower tier of the AL East.
by acblue on Dec 23, 2008 1:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Basically they don't may much of a penalty after the firs FA
by JI on Dec 23, 2008 1:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
but it's the team losing the player that I'm more worried about
by JI on Dec 23, 2008 1:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. The whole penalty thing is stupid though.
Baseball does a ton of incongruous things like this that kill me. If this rule exists then why can’t you trade draft picks?
by Sec 108 on Dec 23, 2008 1:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They get...
a 1S pick as well.
They should really award extra supplemental picks instead of 2nd and 3rd rounders when teams sign multiple type-A’s.
by slamcactus on Dec 23, 2008 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought there was a limit to the number of type A free agents that could be signed.
by HARRYP09 on Dec 23, 2008 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Correct.
If there are between 0 and 14 type A FAs, a team may sign one.
If there are between 15 and 38, a team may sign two
If there are between 39 and 62, a team may sign three.
A team may sign as many type A FAs as they lose, regardless of how many are in the pot.
Yankees lose Abreu. Marte re-signed. Mussina retires (doesn’t count against total lost). Pettitte still unkown.
So yea, the Yanks are done with type A FAs.
I go to law school. Therefore, I have no life.
by andrewgolfsalot on Dec 23, 2008 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also...
These numbers should reflect both A and Bs.
There were 70 this year, for the record.
Yanks won’t be losing more than three, given that Marte re-upped and Mussina retired.
I go to law school. Therefore, I have no life.
by andrewgolfsalot on Dec 23, 2008 4:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nick Swisher will win MVP!
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Dec 23, 2008 1:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and Jeter will of course win 2 gold gloves this year
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE!!! I DRINK IT UP!!
by abender20 on Dec 23, 2008 3:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But... but... but...
He’s a proven winner! How dare you ridicule him!
You're trying to kidnap what I've rightfully stolen.
by Sentinel on Dec 23, 2008 8:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Does this move Swisher to the OF?
Because if it does, that means Damon is their new CF.
by katal on Dec 23, 2008 1:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
to be fair
it’s nearly impossible to top their own 05 OF in terms of defenisve inability. in fact, it would be truely difficult to come even close. (they were according to UZR, a combined -70+ that year!!!!)
by RollingWave on Dec 24, 2008 9:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As an Angels fan...
…this is great news. We get their 26th pick. I was worried he might end up on the Nats or the hated ones (Sox).
So….as it stands now, the Angels will get….
#25
#26
#33
2 picks around 37-46
2 second round picks (one for Garland and another our own)
Holy moly. Draft picks galore.
by baseballfan2 on Dec 23, 2008 1:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
You were worried he would end up on the Nats?
Why?
by katal on Dec 23, 2008 1:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fuentes is awesome
…but I would hate to see the Angels lose a first rounder by signing him. Just pass. The sooner the Angels realize that any good reliever can be a closer, the better off they’ll be. Our bullpen should be fine with Arredondo/Shields/Oliver. I also love Jepsen’s potential. He has potential to be a closer one day. Our bullpen will be fine.
by baseballfan2 on Dec 23, 2008 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We're all aware of this
we’re hoping the Angels aren’t though
by seattlebruin on Dec 23, 2008 5:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Yankees have one draft pick among the first 100.
by Teej on Dec 23, 2008 1:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
(and farther, but I don't know how deep the sandwich round is)
by Teej on Dec 23, 2008 1:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Eventually the free agents + lack of draft picks
will cause them to collapse
by JI on Dec 23, 2008 1:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Unlikely if they keep buying top-tier FAs
Which their revenue allows them to do.
That being said, they could easily be a 85-90 win bridesmaid for a few years (similar to this year).
by eponymous_coward on Dec 23, 2008 2:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
With that staff the have to be over 90 wins easily.
by JI on Dec 23, 2008 2:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They'd have to have some bad luck.
But imagine, say, A-Rod and Burnett with a major injury, Jeter aging, Posada injured and collapsing, Sabathia eating out a lot and losing some effectiveness, and all of a sudden the Yankees look quite mortal in that division.
To put it another way: Cano and Melky are the ONLY position players who came up through the Yankee farm system who aren’t on the wrong side of 30, and Melky isn’t that good.
by eponymous_coward on Dec 23, 2008 6:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
On the other hand CC is young, durable, and really good
and the odds of all these players falling through at the same time aren’t good.
by JI on Dec 23, 2008 6:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thus the bad luck.
Realistically, the Yankees/Sox/Rays are all potentially good teams.
I could also see something like the 2001 AL West, except with 3 teams being very good (95 wins), and beating the hell out of each other + everyone else.
by eponymous_coward on Dec 23, 2008 6:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and besides
if something is truely wrong, they could always pull another Bobby Abreu.
They do potentially have 4 to 5 guys under 30 in their lineup at the start of the season (though that would require them trading Damon, but Cano / Teix / Swisher / Nady / Cabrera are all under 30)
by RollingWave on Dec 24, 2008 9:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
Jamie Moyer has more rings than RJ, Giambi, A-Rod and Carl Pavano own as Yankees combined, some of the last players that everyone assumed would “buy” NY a championship.
The Yankees are formidable, as they always are, but really, they are the perfect demonstration of the folly of building your team through free agency. Even when you essentially have unlimited resources to do this, you’re still buying people on the wrong side of the age curve.
If the Yankees had more minor league players ready to join Cano, Wang, Hughes and Kennedy who looked like they would be really good, I’d be considerably more scared of them than I am when they decide to overpay someone.
by eponymous_coward on Dec 23, 2008 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Moyer does not have more rings than Randy Johnson
2001 Arizona Diamondbacks.
by katal on Dec 23, 2008 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Folly?
The Yankees are continually in the playoffs and they’ve won a shit ton of games over the last 15 years. Judging by relative attendance levels, Marlins fans would rather have that kind of folly than one WS title per decade.
The Rays’ success this year was nice to see, but they paid a much, much greater price than New York has ever paid for an AL pennant—97 losses a year for an entire fucking decade. NY bought their wins with dollars and TB bought their wins by torturing their fan base for a decade.
Focusing on WS titles is a shortsighted way to look at this—especially when most recent WS titles have been won by large budget teams—by outspending everyone in sight, the Yankees have been damned good while teams with no hope of that kind of revenue routinely get the shit kicked out of them.
Even for teams with decent revenue streams, there are very few problems that a $200M budget couldn’t solve. If the Mariners are now a 75-80 win team, an extra $80M should conservatively get them another 10 wins and make them a good bet to make the playoffs, even after all of the things Bavasi did to mangle the roster.
by ubelmann on Dec 23, 2008 5:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Atlanta managed to do a 13 year run WITHOUT spending like the Yankees did.
Look, I am not saying the Yankees built terrible teams. I’m saying that FA signings and an effectively unlimited budget are not the panacea and guarantee everyone thinks they are, given three rounds of playoffs AND smart competition in your division.
Sure, spending is good- but I would note the Yankees have traditionally been better when there’s a home-grown core of young talent SUPPLEMENTED by free agents, not primarily based around aging players.
by eponymous_coward on Dec 23, 2008 6:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Atlanta had a pretty nifty budget, too
They weren’t the Yankees, but they weren’t the Brewers, either.
I don’t really care that the Yankees aren’t guaranteed a championship. I care that they have a gigantic unfair advantage over everyone but the Mets and that even though you think they’ve been managed sub-optimally they’ve effectively been guaranteed a playoff spot every year.
If the Yankees got 28 outs every game, they still wouldn’t win the WS every year. Yet it would still be an unfair advantage and I would still want baseball to do something about it. I just can’t fathom how it is good for baseball to have about 5 teams that are legitimate players for every good free agent.
Sure, spending is good- but I would note the Yankees have traditionally been better when there’s a home-grown core of young talent SUPPLEMENTED by free agents, not primarily based around aging players.
So we’ve established that the Yankees are better when they draft well. That’s true for all teams. The only problem is that other teams can’t bail themselves out with free agents like the Yankees can. (It would also seem that most of their draft success came during a period of time when they were losing a lot of games, putting themselves in better draft position.)
by ubelmann on Dec 23, 2008 7:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why punish the Yankees for this though?
They have the means, they can do what they will. It’s not “fair”, but it’s reality, so other teams have to deal with it. If other teams want to compete but don’t have the means, they need to get better at evaluating and deploying talent – Tampa has shown that this is possible.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Dec 23, 2008 8:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why reward the Yankees for being located in a gigantic metro area?
I don’t care how smart the Brewers are, there just isn’t the revenue potential in Milwaukee that there is in NY—even if you put two teams in the city.
I’m aware that not everything in life is fair, but we generally try to minimize unfair advantages in sports. We wouldn’t let the Yankees hit with aluminum bats, play with 26 roster spots, or get 28 outs in a game—why would we do nothing as they sit on top of a gold mine that at most three or four other teams can stake a claim to?
At some point, I think you start to disillusion fans in legitimately smaller markets. I’m sure that Brewers fans would have loved to keep CC around, but they had literally no chance at re-signing him as long as the Yankees have that much more money than the Brewers. And I have trouble blaming the Brewers until you add at least about 8 million folks to the Milwaukee metro area. So small market teams get run like farm teams for NY, Chicago, and LA. The system is balanced just enough that the small market teams occasionally have a good 2-3-year run, but it seems like eventually fans in the smaller markets will get disillusioned if this continues forever.
As for Tex, consider this: what if the Expos had moved to Brooklyn instead of DC? Would the Yankees still have been able to outbid the Orioles?
Tampa has shown that this is possible.
As I noted above, Tampa has shown that this is possible when you average 97 losses a season for a decade. Can we agree that no fanbase actually wants to sit through that?
Once the Rays have to draft at the bottom of the first round for 3-4 seasons, they’ll be the Minnesota Twins. Which is fine if you’re looking to average 84 wins/season (which is what they have over the last decade) in a weak division, but every offseason you watch teams from bigger markets take quality players away from you. Even knowing that that’s the right move, that is not a fun fan experience. Over that same period, the Yankees have won 96 games/season and I would have a really difficult time buying that Brian Cashman could have won 96 games/season on Minnesota’s budget.
The best case scenario for small market fans is that 90% of their good players will finish their careers elsewhere, and they will get an occasional playoff run while averaging about .500 in the long-run—if they are run really intelligently. If they are run poorly, then they’ll be nearly unwatchable.
Let’s take Steve Phillips with the Mets as the benchmark for a bad GM with a big payroll. (Since as far as I can tell, a lot of people consider Phillips to be a bad GM.) Phillips took over in ‘97 and was fired in mid-2003, so let’s say that he was more or less responsible for the Mets from ‘98 to 2004. Over that time period, the Mets averaged 82 wins a season and had a WS berth. And they’ve had a winning record every season since then despite mediocre-at-best management.
Obviously I can imagine a big payroll being mangled even worse than that, and I can imagine a small market team being more successful than the Twins over the last decade, but it sure seems to me that a very good case scenario for a small market team is a very bad case scenario for a NY team, and that doesn’t sit too well with me.
by ubelmann on Dec 23, 2008 11:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's wrong to assume the Rays are winning solely because they have had high draft picks.
by JI on Dec 23, 2008 11:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It sure as hell isn't hurting
I don’t care if they are run by the love child of Albert Einstein and Marie Curie, they aren’t going to keep winning 97 games a year on a $50M payroll.
by ubelmann on Dec 23, 2008 11:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I also don't know that WIllie Bloomquist won't be MVP next year
There’s no good reason to think that the Rays can possibly do that when no one has ever done it before. Even Billy Beane, God Himself, has only won 90/season over the last 10 years. The sort of sustained success that the Yankees have had is only possible if you can use every available alternative to improve your team, and one of those alternatives is spending loads of money on the free agent market.
It’s cute and all that you guys have adopted the Rays, but you’re not going to care when they start to lose Kazmir, Crawford, Upton, etc. to free agency, and when they stop winning so much, you’ll probably blame a few relatively harmless moves that could easily be fixed with an extra $150M.
Obviously my complaining won’t help the situation, so whatever.
by ubelmann on Dec 24, 2008 11:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're a fool if you think the Rays won't have replacements for them
The Rays are run just as well/better than the A’s are.
by JI on Dec 24, 2008 12:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, because we waited until after the Rays won before we started rooting for them.
by Matthew on Dec 24, 2008 12:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And I know that I personally started rooting for them because they were good
not because I love the way they run the team and think it’s conducive to long term success.
by acblue on Dec 24, 2008 12:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I rooted for them because they had mohawks.
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Dec 24, 2008 12:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You didn't
But you clearly have no real emotional investment in them (just like I have no real emotional investment in the Mariners) and won’t really care when things go sour.
It’s okay, though, everyone can use a little action on the side every now and then.
by ubelmann on Dec 24, 2008 12:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But this HAS continued forever.
It’s not like the Yankees only started winning pennants in 1976 when free agency was created. Hell, you think the small market teams are being run like farm teams now? Go look at the trades between the KC A’s and the Yankees in the 1950’s. You think there’s competitive imbalance now? Look at the 1930’s Braves, Phillies or A’s.
I suppose putting another franchise in NY might solve this.. except wait, from 1947 to 1957 we HAD three franchises in NYC… and there was ONE year during all that time when there wasn’t a NYC team in the series (1948). So maybe we’d need 4?
by eponymous_coward on Dec 24, 2008 12:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would be okay with four
You have to expand in pairs and now that the Rays have made the WS, there aren’t really any teams that I’d be comfortable relocating.
by ubelmann on Dec 24, 2008 11:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your argument is somewhat strange
The best case scenario for small market fans is that 90% of their good players will finish their careers elsewhere,
That’s the way it’s always been, regardless. Since the dawn of free agency, players have always moved to good teams, and they always will. I’m not sure this is a damning indictment of the way “big market” teams do business.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Dec 24, 2008 7:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have a problem with them moving to good teams
I have a problem with them always moving to the same teams in the same big cities. These days it doesn’t even seem like the Cardinals are legit players in the free agent market, and they have traditionally had a lot of revenue given the population of St. Louis and they’ve even had a good deal of recent success.
by ubelmann on Dec 24, 2008 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Signing expensive free agents in an inefficient way to run a team
The Cardinals been on top for a decade and I can’t think of one expensive free agent they’ve signed.
by JI on Dec 24, 2008 12:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Then your problem is with capitalism not with baseball
Players, like anybody, will chase better money for doing the same job in a different place. If the Yankees offer Player X $20 million a year and the Brewers/Dodgers/Cardinals/Mariners offer $10 million, Player X will be a Yankee right quick.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Dec 24, 2008 12:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have no problem with capitalism in general
But if we give the Yankees and Mets more earning power, and we use the current free agent system, they’re going to collectively win more championships than any other pair of teams out there. If you’re cool with that, more power to you, but it doesn’t sit very well with me personally.
by ubelmann on Dec 24, 2008 12:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How are you still a baseball fan then?
they’re going to collectively win more championships than any other pair of teams out there.
The Yankees have already done that, with room to spare. They have 26. The Cardinals have 10 and the A’s have 9, and everyone else has less. If it doesn’t sit well with you, you may as well give up on the game entirely, because ’twas always thus, and until NYC goes bankrupt again, it will probably always be this way.
Which brings me back to my original point – win smarter, not more expensively.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Dec 24, 2008 12:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"until NYC goes bankrupt again"
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Dec 24, 2008 12:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There's no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater
I don’t like this aspect of baseball, but it’s not so bad that I’m going to stop watching completely. I think it could be improved, though.
There are a few other things I’d like to change in baseball, too (everyone has to agree on either DH or no DH, get rid of the silly beanball warning system that makes no sense to me, etc.), but for whatever reason, I’ve fallen in love with baseball and I’m willing to put up with its imperfections even if I’d like them to go away.
Which brings me back to my original point – win smarter, not more expensively.
There are practical limits to this. A smart GM is going to lose in the long term to a smart GM with more resources. Cashman and Epstein may not be quite as smart as the Rays’ management, but they’re pretty savvy.
by ubelmann on Dec 24, 2008 1:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that the Yankees haven't won anything since 1999
would suggest that, while there are probably practical limits to it, there’s no reason to decry the state of the game because two or three teams have an inordinate share of the resources in the game – look at the composition of the ALCS and NLCS over the last five or six years and you’ll see that it’s not always the teams with the most money that are there.
There are no absolutes in baseball. I’m not so naïve as to believe that hard work will always defeat big checkbooks, but I’m not so fatalistic that I believe the opposite, either.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Dec 24, 2008 1:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Yankees have averaged 97 wins per season since 2001
I don’t care that they haven’t won a Series. It is not in the best interests of baseball to have one (or two, or four) franchises that are able to spend their way to an advantage. If in any given year the average team has a 3.3% chance of winning it all, but the Yankees are able to come in at 10-15%, the odds are still against them, but that’s an edge that needs to be controlled if MLB wants to entertain any thoughts of long-term parity.
by Jeff on Dec 24, 2008 1:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's a good point
but that also assumes that “MLB wants to entertain any thoughts of long-term parity”. Not to get all conspiracy-theorist, but MLB has a strong vested interest in keeping the “house edge”, if you will, of having at least one NYC team there or thereabouts every year – as much as the Phillies/Rays may have been a “purist’s dream”, and as fun as the Rockies’ story was, those are two of the lowest-rated Series in televised baseball history. Having a NY team in the playoffs/WS ensures good ratings.
So while I don’t think MLB is actively complicit in ensuring the Yankees/Mets/Sox are always among the winningest teams in the game, I also don’t think they’re going to go out of their way to rock that particular boat, at least as long as they stake their league’s identity on who wins the World Series every year.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Dec 24, 2008 1:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that has
a good deal to do with the folly of the NLE for most of that decade too.
Expos: always and still is a joke except for the one year that happened to be strike year.
Phillies: complete joke after strike until recently
Mets: they traded Kazmir for Victor Zambrano.
Besides, while there’s obviously good insight, you can’t possiblly argue that how good Maddux / Smoltz / Glavine turned out during this stretch didn’t have a lot of good luck to it as well. i mean after age 26, it was only clear that Maddux was a good pitcher, no one could have rationally predicted that he would be one of DA BEST FOOKING PITCHA OF ALL TIME.
Marlins: a few good teams and a ton of bad once.
by RollingWave on Dec 24, 2008 9:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They'll just spend money on guys who fall because of signability.
They can still find plenty of talent in the draft.
Tools Whore
Sign Bonds!
by Tyler on Dec 23, 2008 2:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not like sitting out for one year is going to kill them
Look at their first-rounders in the ‘90s. They had essentially four worthwhile 1st-rounders in the 90s—Carl Everett, Derek Jeter, Eric Milton, and Brian Buchanan. And Buchanan was really only worthwhile because they were able to package him with Milton to get a couple of prime years out of Chuck Knoblauch. They didn’t even sign Mark Prior, who was arguably their best pick of that decade.
The Yankees draft position is 24 next summer? Looking back at 24th overall picks, you can certainly find some good players. You’d have to be really lucky to find players as good as CC or Tex, though.
The goal isn’t most wins per dollar, the goal is most wins, and since the Yankees have more money than anyone else, they are correctly investing in the very best players in baseball rather than taking a chance on a late first-round pick and a couple of even lower picks. They can go back to accumulating talent in the draft next year if they like.
by ubelmann on Dec 23, 2008 5:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
umm..
Albert Pujols : 13th round
Jason Bay: 22nd round
Matt Holliday: 7th round
Jorge Posada: 24th round
Derek Lowe: 8th round
Grady Sizemore: 3rd round
John Smoltz: 22nd round
just to name a few, you can even find (a lot) of hall of famers in the later rounds. of course it’s not always just a signability issue, more like a crapshoot issue.
by RollingWave on Dec 24, 2008 9:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Completely agreed
I think that the Yankees can sit out a draft every now and again and be just fine, but even the scouts who signed the guys on that list would agree that they are by far the exception.
by ubelmann on Dec 24, 2008 11:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
really?
let’s just look at the the current (or very recent ret guys) who i think will likely make the HOF (who went through the draft of course)
SP
Clemens: 1
Maddux: 2
Glavine: 2
Smoltz: 22
Mussina: 1
Schilling: 2
Hoffman: 11
RJ: 2
Infielders:
A-rod: 1
Pujols: 13
Jeter: 1
Kent: 20
Piazza: 63
Jones: 1
outfielder / DH:
Bonds: 1
Thome: 13
Griffey: : 1
Manny: 1
Sheffield: 1
Thomas: 1
of the 20 guys I listed here exactly half are 1st rounders, 4 are 2nd rounders and 6 are much later rounders. obviously 1st rounders dominate, but 2nd and late rounders are hardly the “exception”
by RollingWave on Dec 24, 2008 7:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
when 70% of your hand-picked list comes form the 1st or 2nd round,
that’s a pretty good indication that the draft isn’t as much of a crapshoot as you seem to be insinuating.
by Matthew on Dec 24, 2008 8:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
it’s not a COMPLETE crap shoot no doubt, but what I meant to say is that there is certainly a good degree of crapshoot factor inside it, otherwise we should never see HOFers drafted past the 2nd or even 1st round, they should all be 1st overall picks minus the Pirates (when in fact very few of them are)
by RollingWave on Dec 24, 2008 10:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course it's part crapshoot
but it’s also a fact that the fewer high picks you have, the greater your disadvantage. It’s simple probability.
by Jeff on Dec 24, 2008 10:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Yankees lineup seems to be worth about 21 wins
That assumes Posada can actually play
by JI on Dec 23, 2008 1:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
37 year old C with almost 1500 games in MLB
The odometer is pretty high on him and Jeter (34 year middle IF). Even A-Rod is showing some signs of going downhill on the durability angle.
by eponymous_coward on Dec 23, 2008 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
The Rays starting 9 is worth 22, the Sox 24, and that’s without know who the balls is on the Red Sox bench, or who the Rays’ DH will be.
by JI on Dec 23, 2008 2:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
BUT TEH YANKEES ARE TEH AWESUM WITH TEH SPENDING FOR TEX!!11!!!! AND JETER!1!!!
by eponymous_coward on Dec 23, 2008 6:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just get irritated when people assume the Yankees bought a championship whenever they do this.
It’s just not true- and I actually think using unlimited spending makes you lazy when it comes to your farm system.
by eponymous_coward on Dec 23, 2008 6:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...They've had some good success with their farm system. That big payroll is a glaring 'use me when you can't agrue!'
It obviously helps to have unlimited payroll though.
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Dec 23, 2008 6:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Are the Yankees actually bad at drafting?
Or maintaining their farm system? They did just have more players taken from them in the Rule 5 draft than any other team, so it would seem that they have at least some talent down on the farm.
Along with their success, they’ve been drafting at the bottom of the first round when they have been drafting for the last 15 years. Obviously, the system is designed to hurt good teams, but if we’re claiming that they’ve become lazy w/r/t prospects, we should keep in mind that their draft position might have a lot to do with how their farm system looks right now.
by ubelmann on Dec 23, 2008 7:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well
they had a really bad stretch from the mid 90s to mid 00, but recently they been doing fairly well, Cano / Wang / Chamberlian is better than what many teams have churn out recently. and they still have Hughes and guys like Cabrera / Kennedy / Gardner / a boatload of RPs. after 06 they dumped Sheffield and RJ for some prospects (non of them has truely panned out though, Ohlendorf was bad and then traded for Nady / Marte was the best result so far , though there’s still hope they get some RPs out of the bunch)
by RollingWave on Dec 24, 2008 9:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Baltimore...
If Tillman and Matusz are able to make an impact this year, Baltimore becomes yet another potentially very good team. Jones, Markakis, Weiters, Huff, Scott, and Roberts is a damn good offensive core. Depending on which Melvin Mora shows up, they could have seven well above average regulars. They already have two legitimate stars in Markakis and Roberts, and Weiters and Jones could become two more +4 win players in short order.
Poor Blue Jays.
by slamcactus on Dec 23, 2008 1:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Tillman isn't getting called up to the majors in 2009.
by Matthew on Dec 23, 2008 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
...and having an impact
is the left off part of that comment.
by Matthew on Dec 23, 2008 1:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Um...
He’s had success at double-A. A strong first half and sharpened command, and he’ll be up by July.
Tillman has some major improvements left to make, but he’s potentially much closer to making an impact at the major league level than you two are suggesting. If he doesn’t make them, he won’t be fast-tracked to the majors, but my post was an “if things go right” scenario. There’s a lot of upside on that team right now.
by slamcactus on Dec 23, 2008 2:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To be clear...
I’m not saying Tillman is likely to make an impact in the majors this year. Tillman making the jump in performance necessary to make him an impact arm in the majors is a possibility, though, and a couple of arms making the jump from promising to useful makes Baltimore a pretty good team that would be capable of contention in pretty much any other division.
by slamcactus on Dec 23, 2008 2:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Assuming the Orioles have him skip AAA, which is a big assumption,
you’re still left with Tillman having too small of a time in the majors in 2009 to make any sort of impact.
by Matthew on Dec 23, 2008 2:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Skip AAA?
Why, exactly, do you think the Orioles won’t start him in AAA to begin the year?
by slamcactus on Dec 23, 2008 2:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
so you are arguing he will make an impact in the majors while playing in the minors?
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE!!! I DRINK IT UP!!
by abender20 on Dec 23, 2008 3:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
now that's an impact player
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Dec 23, 2008 3:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is really simple.
If a player starts a season in Triple-A and performs at a dominant level, it’s possible for that player to be called up relatively early in the major league season. If/when that happens, that player can then make an impact at the major league level. Savvy?
Tillman won’t be skipping AAA, but he’s got a chance to crack the major league roster early if he improves and shows that he’s ready. I have no idea why Matthew talked about him ‘skipping’ AAA.
by slamcactus on Dec 23, 2008 5:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In order for Tillman to be an impact player at the major league level
He will either have to skip AAA entirely or be the best pitcher in the major leagues for half a season.
Savvy?
by Graham on Dec 23, 2008 5:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
An...
above average pitcher for half a season is a valuable player. Nobody’s anointing Tillman as an MVP candidate in 2009.
by slamcactus on Dec 23, 2008 5:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"If Tillman and Matusz are able to make an impact this year"
Funnily enough, I didn’t read this as “If Tillman and Matusz are able to contribute any value to the Baltimore Orioles”.
Impact players aren’t worth ~10 runs over the course of a season, which is what Tillman would be if he was an average player called up in July.
by Graham on Dec 23, 2008 5:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Then...
you put way too much thought into a throwaway sentence in a post on a message board 3 months into the off-season.
My point, which you’ve sucked all of the fun out of discussing, is that the Orioles have a really exciting core of position players. If a hypothetical situation in which they also had good young pitching were to occur, then they would be a good baseball team that would be able to compete in any other division in baseball.
Congratulations for making up an argument and then winning it.
by slamcactus on Dec 23, 2008 5:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps communicating better/using correct arguments rather than incorrect ones would result in more fun.
by Graham on Dec 23, 2008 5:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
These type of arguments are why posting here isn't any fun anymore.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Dec 23, 2008 5:57 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
This isn't constructive.
If you have concerns, please bring up specifics in an e-mail to the moderators.
by Matthew on Dec 23, 2008 6:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think degrading people for miscommunicating or having the 'incorrect' argument leads to a really lame place to discuss topics.
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Dec 23, 2008 6:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This place has been less constructive lately in regards to dealing with 'wrong' opinions.
Of course we don’t want this to turn into the PI forum but I think we all can be better about interacting with new posters/ideas-however wrong they may be. Even if they are off-base they shouldn’t be criticized into not posting anymore.
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Dec 23, 2008 6:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they shouldn't be douchey towards the authors.
by JI on Dec 23, 2008 6:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree on this point...I don't really see him be douchey towards the authors in this thread.
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Dec 23, 2008 7:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if it was intentional
but I do see how it can be interpreted that way.
by JI on Dec 23, 2008 7:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I see it too....but do you really think he knows Graham/Matthew are authors here?
I think he should have a little more tact/respect too, but I don’t think that means we should stoop to that level of discourse here with new commentators/arguments.
That is all.
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Dec 23, 2008 7:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Considering they both have front page posts it would be hard not to know.
by JI on Dec 23, 2008 7:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't believe his intention were to come here, see who are authors and then argue with them.
But I’m done discussing this topic.
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Dec 23, 2008 7:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I happen to feel that we were quite level-headed in addressing the original statement
up until the point where slamcactus resorted to personal insults. At that point, all bets are off.
Whether or not you think its pedantic, phrasing is important. This is a text only medium.
by Matthew on Dec 23, 2008 7:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Ugh...
Semantics.
For the Orioles, I imagine impact is anything better than shitting the bed. After all, they’ve been losing a lot longer than the M’s have.
Favor the Bold
by IcebreakerX on Dec 23, 2008 6:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And Matusz?
We might as well be talking about if Triunfel makes an impact on the Mariners this year, we could be really good.
by Matthew on Dec 23, 2008 5:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jesus.
The point is that IF the Orioles had solid pitching, they’d be a team capable of contending in any other division. If you treat every “this is a team’s upside” comment as a projection/prediction you’re going to spend a ridiculous number of hours of your life locked in stupid arguments.
by slamcactus on Dec 23, 2008 5:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Right
If the team’s minor league pitching talent somehow skips AAA and immediately begins to dominate Major League hitters, Weiters does the same offensively, Jones instantly hits his prime, the bullpen plays out of its mind, and Mora plays like it isn’t his age-37 season, then sure, they could be wonderful. But that isn’t likely, so there’s no use to talk about it.
More realistically the Orioles compete for .500, Roberts goes away at the end of the season, Tillman and Weiters are called up full time, and the Orioles are pretty neat in 2010.
by katal on Dec 23, 2008 6:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Try 2011
It’s not like we care anymore, though.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
by Baltimo on Dec 24, 2008 3:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Y'all should try and trade with the Nats.
They’ll never be good, but at least they have really cool hats. And really, it’s easier to feel sorry for a team in the AL East than the NL East. So y’all can dethrone the Phils and continue to embarrass the Mets and the Nats can give the Rays an easy target 20 times a year. Win win!
by acblue on Dec 24, 2008 3:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There is no point
With the Nationals having signed Daniel Cabrera and Corey Patterson this week, they’re already the 2006 Baltimore Orioles.
Although we’ve had 11 straight losing seasons, at least we’re not Washington.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
by Baltimo on Dec 24, 2008 4:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I'm saying, you guys will have a good team soon and the Nats won't.
So y’all—>NL East, Nats—>AL East.
by acblue on Dec 24, 2008 12:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Draft compensation question
Has it ever happened where a type A free agent has not been signed because a team didn’t want to give up draft picks. If a type A free agent is only worth 1 WAR and is old and not worth signing to any contract if draft picks must be given up, then what happens. A player could be worth a small contract if the draft pick compensation was removed though. Is there a time limit where the draft pick compensation goes away? I guess this player would probably accept arbitration so this usually doesn’t happen. Seems like it limits a FA’s options if he wants to sign with a different team though.
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 23, 2008 2:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The whole Tim Raines collusion story jumps to mind.
But now that I think about he he returned to Montreal in May because he was NOT offered arbitration.
by Sec 108 on Dec 23, 2008 2:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It happens.
Dave put up a post over at Fangraphs about how the elias rankings screwed Damaso Marte over this year. Solid reliever, but not one worth giving up a first round pick.
He ended up re-signing with the Yankees.
by slamcactus on Dec 23, 2008 2:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Same thing with Darren Oliver.
the other angels fan
by Eyebrows on Dec 23, 2008 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And it's looking like
It’s going to happen to Jason Varitek. No one is going to give up a first rounder for a 37 year old catcher who has an agent (Boras) demanding a Posada-sized contract. (4 years 52 mil). He’ll have to either retire or resign with the Sox.
by dancehall_dreamer on Dec 23, 2008 4:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lookng at the AL East
Baltimore/Toronto could win 80+ games and still end up in last. If I was them I’d be asking to see if there is any room left in the central division.
by IceStormV1 on Dec 23, 2008 2:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
if I were the Jays, I'd be happy if people remember the Jays are in the AL East
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE!!! I DRINK IT UP!!
by abender20 on Dec 23, 2008 4:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I will laugh all the more hard when the Rays win the division again.
by Omerta on Dec 23, 2008 2:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
We could only hope.
I would be curious to see how each roster matches up in WAR, and then in salaries. Would they be close to even now?
by Fin on Dec 23, 2008 4:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So much for Cashman's "We're gonna start building from within!" mantra.
by Goose on Dec 23, 2008 4:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
They haven't traded any prospects for veterans.
They have just spent lots and lots and lots of $$$$ on veterans.
"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game."
-Rickey
by Big Jared on Dec 23, 2008 5:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They have essentially traded next year's top draft picks...
…for the rights to sign CC, Tex, and Burnett. So they have given up some prospects this offseason, even if we don’t know which prospects those are just yet.
by ubelmann on Dec 23, 2008 7:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So honestly, the Yankees are going to be fun to watch.
Oh fuck you. Get out of work? Do what i do and piss your pantalones. Ain’t no one going to fuck with you when you piss your pants. -- kevin_ess, winebibber
by Wilder. on Dec 23, 2008 10:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Watching them play defense will be a blast.
by acblue on Dec 23, 2008 10:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It would be awesome if they signed Manny to LF and Matsui goes to DH.
Regardless, if they do sign Manny, this could be the greatest lineup ever.
Oh fuck you. Get out of work? Do what i do and piss your pantalones. Ain’t no one going to fuck with you when you piss your pants. -- kevin_ess, winebibber
by Wilder. on Dec 23, 2008 11:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They have the third best lineup in the division
and if they somehow added Manny it would be a tossup
by JI on Dec 23, 2008 11:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There is a bright side.
Boston fans are now whining about how they have no chance. They also want to run Henry and Epstein out of town.
Do it! They haven’t done any good for your franchise anyway.
by Sec 108 on Dec 24, 2008 8:28 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
If Lowell is healthy, signing Teixeria is pointless
There’s no reason why you should take on an albatross contract just to keep the Yankees out of the playoff for one season.
by JI on Dec 24, 2008 9:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I hear Tex's skillset doesn't age well
Yeah, the Yankees get a great player now. But they also get to pay for the decline years.
by Gomez on Dec 24, 2008 10:45 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Eh, hits for a good average, takes walks, has power
good defensive player. He’ll probably age OK, it’s years 7-8 I’d be worried about.
by JI on Dec 24, 2008 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And by years 7 and 8, their investment will likely have paid for itself a couple times over.
*Assuming they win a championship or two between now and then.
It’s those arms they paid for I would be most worried about.
Oh fuck you. Get out of work? Do what i do and piss your pantalones. Ain’t no one going to fuck with you when you piss your pants. -- kevin_ess, winebibber
by Wilder. on Dec 24, 2008 11:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
his comp lists
VIA PECOTA (last year ) was Eddie Murray, Lance Berkman, Willie Aikens and Willie McCovey. unless you think he’ll go and get arrested for all sorts of crack problems like Aikens it’s unlikely he won’t age well. Murray is a good comp for the likely expected case where he was good up to age 34 then was decent from 35-37.
VIA BR his list this year was.
Carlos Delgado (935)
Kent Hrbek (925)
Fred McGriff (913)
Jim Thome (911)
Will Clark (910)
Jeff Bagwell (909)
Willie McCovey (906) *
Richie Sexson (904)
Shawn Green (901)
Paul Konerko (899)
there’s some icky case there (Hrbek fell off early and Clark due to Injury +strike) but most of the rest are really encouraging ( and i don’t think anyone can honestly say that Teixeria is in the same realm as Sexson / Green / Konerko )
the name Willy McCovey pops up a ton in both comps (he is Teix’s most comparable player from age 24/25), and that would obviously be what the Yankees are hoping for since during the same comparable span McCovey had 5 monster seasons (over 160 ops+ including a mvp 200+ one) and truely only one bad year where he was hurt most of the season (81 games barely over 100 OPS+)
by RollingWave on Dec 24, 2008 8:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, at least this gives me another reason to hate the Yanks.
Damn, they’re going to be good.
"i never eresalized thast cc sabagtiahia wa s THAT black. good for him"
--- Robert
by Taylor H on Dec 27, 2008 6:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

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