is whether catching holds his bat back. If you believe that the wear and tear of being behind the plate, as well as the time spent working on trying to become adequate back there, limits him to a +5 bat, but he could become a +15 bat if he just moved to an easier position and focused on hitting, then it’s not so cut and dry.

There’s also the issue of Piazza being the worst defensive catcher among players who were pre-selected as good enough defenders to catch in the major leagues. My guess it that Carlos Delgado would have been worse than -10 runs defensively had the Blue Jays not moved him from behind the plate. We have to at least consider the possibility that Clement’s defense really might be worse than Piazza’s. It’s pretty bad.

While I have empathy for Graham’s player-love, this was awesome:

Realistically, the implication of accepting that the most damage a catcher can do is only -10 runs, and that the position adjustment between C/1B is 25 runs, is that MLB should be converting every below average first baseman into a catcher. Guys like Ryan Garko, Chris Shelton, and Mike Jacobs should go behind the plate and catch.

Honestly, watching Clement behind the plate last year was painful. I can easily imagine him being a -15 to -20 over a full season. Watching last year’s performance (without any special love) I think it can’t be ruled out.

And as pointed out, the wear and tear that the position demands cannot be good for a guy coming off knee surgery. It would be best to try out Clement as a DH and have him focus on his batting. I suspect that his poor show with the bat last year was probably due to the defensive demands of catching (not just wear and tear, but calling the game, etc.).

Granted, I don’t have the Hardball Times Annual, but it’s always seemed like delving into the realm of catcher defense is a difficult thing for statistical analysis to do, because so little of the catcher’s regular actions result in outs (or even chances for outs). I’m not fond of this line of thinking, but it seems like the possibility at least exists that catchers can have an effect on the game in other ways (framing pitches, some of them calling pitches) that would be meaningful but impossible to measure. Considering the number of times the catcher touches the ball during the course of a season, it seems extremely counter-intuitive to suggest that the difference between the best and worst catchers is 20 runs. Obviously, just because it’s counter-intuitive doesn’t mean it’s wrong, but I’d hedge towards the “there’s probably more going on here” side of the argument.

Adam Moore? I think you give Clement the chance to stick behind the plate for 09. If he sucks to bad or if Adam Moore proves to be better you move Clement to whereever you want. If he can’t stick behind the plate I think we all know what he is, a potentially league avg hitter for 1b or DH. Its possible by the end of the year Adam Moore could be a better prospect.

Graham/Tango have presented some fascinating evidence that C defense is largely overrated; our eyes presented some evidence that Clement may be, at this point in time, worse than Piazza defensively.

But putting defense aside, or rather, assuming Clement can work his way up to Piazza-level D (which isn’t outlandish), we still need to figure out if playing the position is hurting Clement’s offensive growth. I agree with both that he should start at C next year, but… he’ll turn 26 during the ‘09 season. As Dave mentioned, this season was marred by a knee surgery, just as his 2006 season was. His offensive performance in Seattle was underwhelming (though his MiLB season was off the charts) – it’s not clear that he’d be more productive at 1B/DH on top of the health issue, but if he was, that certainly softens the blow of the position change.

So yeah, Graham’s presented some really interesting evidence that Clement’s more valuable – right now – than we might have thought. But it’s still a good idea to buy the guy a 1b glove for christmas. If he’s still having knee problems next year (and that’s pretty damned likely after 2 surgeries), then they need to move him while he still has a bit of cartilage left.

The post was good, but this was one of the best discussions of a post I’ve seen in a while. Nice work.