Nighttime Rumor Thread
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 6:04 PM PST
in Miscellaneous
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PrintThe Mets are working to acquire a setup man for new closer Francisco Rodriguez — and that setup man would be another closer from the American League West.
J.J. Putz could be headed to the Mets in a three-team trade with the Mariners and Indians, according to major-league sources.
Mets right-hander Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first-base prospect Mike Carp would be in the deal, as would Indians outfielder Franklin Gutierrez.
It is not yet clear which players are headed where.
Matthew's Addendum: Mike Carp is a name we've bandied about before as wanting from the Mets, back in good times when we thought Jarrod Washburn was to be no more. Obviously, we wouldn't know where the proposed deal sends which players and likely there would be other names involved, but the general sense right now is that Carp and Heilman would end up with us. I am nonplussed for the moment.
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Jeff's note: My read is that, were this to go down, we'd actually be landing Franklin Gutierrez as the centerpiece. And that would be absolutely a-ok with me. Gutierrez's offense could stand to improve, but the straight defensive improvement over Raul would seriously be on the order of like 35-40 runs. There are worse trades to make.
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Matthew's note to Jeff's note: Getting Franklin Gutierrez certainly makes more sense from a roster standpoint and would actually be the better haul. I certainly hope that's the deal, though I wouldn't mind getting Carp as well as he's an interesting enough 22-year-old LH 1B with patience
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Jeff's note to Matthew's note to Jeff's note: I can already feel myself getting too invested in what's probably going to be another rumor that doesn't go anywhere.
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Update from Rosenthal:
Under terms of the deal, the Mets would get Putz, outfielder Jeremy Reed and reliever Sean Green from Seattle. The Mariners would receive reliever Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first baseman Mike Carp from the Mets. They'd also get Franklin Gutierrez from the Indians and minor leaguers. The Indians would get reliever Joe Smith from the Mets and infielder Luis Valbuena from Seattle.
If the trade is completed, one problem for the Mets could be that Putz wants to remain a closer. Asked earlier in the day if Putz would embrace a setup role for another team, his agent Craig Landis said "no."
From the Mets' perspective, the deal would be Heilman and Smith for Putz. Chavez and Reed would be an exchange of backup outfielders, Smith and Green an exchange of right-handed groundball specialists.
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Matthew's note to Jeff's note to Matthew's note to Jeff's note: Who looks stupid now?
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Graham's note to Matthew's note to Jeff's note to Matthew's note to Jeff's note: Bill Bavasi?
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Comments
Seems a little light.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
Well J.J. was hurt for almost all of last season and K-Rod has always had one of the riskiest windups of all-time.
That screams potential major injury from both of them.
Is JJ even fully healed yet?
Didn’t we think he was at the beginning of the season? Heck, he may already have a serious injury.
Exclusive OR?
Jeff's guide to not looking stupid:
+/- is an absolutely terrible stat, so don't use it, and don't give up on young players before they turn 24.
54!
Because it's nearly Christmas
and therefore time for us to be shit upon?
He's a veteran relief pitcher.
That’s pretty much a rule for the Mariners. They have to get at least one veteran relief pitcher every offseason.
That's what my instincts told me.
Carp, Chavez, Heilman —→ Cleveland?
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 6:11 PM PST up reply actions
Should have let them both stand and see which thread we like better.
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 6:10 PM PST up reply actions
If his defensive numbers are right, then yes, easily
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 6:18 PM PST up reply actions
What kind of upside does he have? Any insight on that?
I fucking hate you Mariners
Somewhere in the vicinity of a ~league average bat
probably a little more.
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 6:23 PM PST up reply actions
What the fuck is up with having roster flexibility?
seems dirty
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 6:19 PM PST up reply actions
I can.
It would roughly mean, “yes, he can”. And by roughly I mean the literal translation wouldn’t make quite as much sense in English
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 10, 2008 7:24 PM PST up reply actions
zOMG no politics
Jeff's guide to not looking stupid:
+/- is an absolutely terrible stat, so don't use it, and don't give up on young players before they turn 24.
54!
On Gutierrez:
+/-, UZR, and PMR all have him as being either the best or one of the best defensive right fielders in baseball, and that’s with 284 games of experience. His glove is phenomenal.
If this went down we'd have a
Gutierrez/?/Ichiro outfield
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 6:22 PM PST up reply actions
Wouldn't be surprised to see Wlad/Gutierrez/Ichiro
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 6:23 PM PST up reply actions
Or Chavez
although I imagine in this scenario he’s going to Cleveland.
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 6:25 PM PST up reply actions
It would be dandy if one more player were headed here.
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 6:25 PM PST up reply actions
With this I agree but let's take this one thing at a time
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 6:26 PM PST up reply actions
Adding Gutierrez improves the big picture
I’ll worry about Wlad another time.
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 6:29 PM PST up reply actions
He also takes tons of pitches.
And yet rarely walks.
Interestingly his contact rate improved quite a bit this year while his numbers declined
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 6:25 PM PST up reply actions
So we'd be buying low?
Go, Jack, go!
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 10, 2008 7:26 PM PST up reply actions
Trying to understand Gutz’s offense is going to be a frustrating exercise. His swing has undergone major restructuring during his development and he struggles to maintain a consistent approach. At times he has major contact problems and a long swing, at other times he seems to have great control of the plate but a lack of power. He has power potential, as evidence by the monster HRs he occasionally hits, but he hasn’t been able to do it consistently.
Won't Gutierez's already so-so offense
suffer from moving to Safeco?
The
Richie,
the
You don't get Franklin Gutierrez for his bat
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 6:25 PM PST up reply actions
A little bit
But he’s never really flashed plus power.
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 6:28 PM PST up reply actions
I'm gonna project 2007 out to 650 PAs
stick my fingers in my ears and call it good
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 6:30 PM PST up reply actions
Sure, but it's still part of the total package.
There’s no Designated Fielder position.
The
Richie,
the
by Rollo Tomasi on Dec 10, 2008 6:26 PM PST up reply actions
If he'd played last year in Safeco
he probably would have been.
The
Richie,
the
by Rollo Tomasi on Dec 10, 2008 6:29 PM PST up reply actions
Career OPS+
Reed 83
Gutierrez 86
They’re about even.
The
Richie,
the
by Rollo Tomasi on Dec 10, 2008 6:36 PM PST up reply actions
The total package is that he's at least a league-average player and quite possibly more than that
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 6:28 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, he's not bad
But I’d rather have Joyce, assuming that option actually exists.
The
Richie,
the
by Rollo Tomasi on Dec 10, 2008 6:37 PM PST up reply actions
On the Mlbblogs site
they have the Mariners giving up Valbuena and Reed as possibilities in this deal too.
I’d hate to lose Valbuena as he’s one of maybe 3 hitters in the organisation with some plate discipline.
Reed can go somewhere and we can get one of those players back
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 6:27 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know what you're reading but that would make me more displeased
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 6:32 PM PST up reply actions
Sounds like 'we' like Jose Lopez going forward more than I thought.
I fucking hate you Mariners
I like this a lot less if it Valbuena + Putz
for Gutierrez
Better throw in Lopez or betancourt and try to get back another shiny part.
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 6:35 PM PST up reply actions
It's gonna turn into a 5-1 to get Guiterrez...I see it coming...
I fucking hate you Mariners
They're just working on a deal that would include said players right?
Nothing is final yet….
BOOYA! You got Slurved!
Gutierrez, Heilman and Carp
I REALLY don’t like Heilman. I might actually like the deal better if he were not involved.
Well
He’s a one-pitch guy who always complains about not getting his shot, yet he’s never done anything to warrant getting said shot.
Plus he’s ugly…
I don't see why you wouldn't want him in the bullpen.
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 6:42 PM PST up reply actions
He was an average to above-average reliever for years before 2008.
He wants to be a starter, though, so he might throw a fit.
Moar Info:
The particulars of the deal were still being worked out Wednesday night at the Bellagio, but MLB.com has learned the Mariners would likely receive Indiansoutfielder Franklin Gutierrez and the Indians would receive Mets right-handed reliever Joe Smith and Mariners infielder Luis Valbuena.
Mets right-hander Aaron Heilman and Mariners outfielder Jeremy Reed are also believed to be involved, though it is unclear who is headed where.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
B'oh
The Detroit Tigers are set to acquire right-hander Edwin Jackson from the Tampa Bay Rays for outfielder Matt Joyce, according to a major-league source. — Ed Price
Come on.
We need to fleece somebody way more than the Rays do.
The
Richie,
the
by Rollo Tomasi on Dec 10, 2008 6:43 PM PST up reply actions
Baker's chiming in.
And now, the halls are reverberating with rumors of a three-way deal with the Mets and Cleveland Indians that would send Franklin Guttierez to Seattle, with Putz and Luis Valbuena going the other way.
I really really really don't want to trade Valbuena
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 6:44 PM PST up reply actions
Me neither.
Also, we better get back more than Guitierrez.
Putz has a good contract
but there’s significant risk he goes the way of Gagne.
also, look at what the Rangers got for Gagne
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 6:53 PM PST up reply actions
hmmmm...
Putz and Valbuena for Guttierez? There has to be more to this. I guess I can live with a guy who can run and play defense for a change.
The inclusion of Valbuena makes me afraid
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 7:01 PM PST up reply actions
Why can't we just trade Yuni or Lopez and keep the fun good one
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 7:03 PM PST up reply actions
Better to throw in Lopez or Betancourt and try to get back another shiny part.
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 7:04 PM PST up reply actions
I was just poking around yesterday,
and their offense in 2008 was virtually the same as 2007. They got Garza, but Kazmir started sucking.
It’s amazing how much they improved with just defense and a good bullpen.
Right, which is why Raul has a contract with the Mariners
and why Joey Cora’s the new Mariner manager.
by eponymous_coward on Dec 10, 2008 7:10 PM PST up reply actions
This deal makes me unhappy
Determined, Jonesing Commentor | Proud proprietor of Washingtonhighways.org
USSM:
Second Update: Apparently, the M’s are going to give up Putz, Reed, and Luis Valbuena and get Gutierrez, Aaron Heilman, and Mike Carp, with various assorted pieces ending up in Cleveland and New York. It’s a remarkably interesting deal on a lot of levels. I love Gutierrez’s glove, but would have preferred Joyce as a better fit for Safeco. Heilman demanded a trade because he wants to start, and we’ve already got too many starters. And I hate giving up Valbuena, but Carp could be a legit 1B of the future. We’ll break it all down once it becomes official.
Right now I like it
We could make Heilman the closer, pump up his value and trade him after 2009
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 7:05 PM PST up reply actions
Zduriencik says there's something in the works.
Via TNT:
Just left our meeting with Mariners general manger Jack Zduriencik and it appears as though a deal for closer J.J. Putz could happen sometime in the coming days and possibly tonight.
When asked if a proposal on the table, Zduriencik said. “Yes, there is something to think about in detail.”
When asked if a deal could happen on Thursday or even tonight, he said, “Very possible.”
Now, the trick is figuring out who the deal could be with.
If anyone wants to think negatively of this possible trade
just remind yourself of Rafael Soriano for Horacio Ramirez, and repeat to yourself “this is much better.”
Apparently they offered 5/80 for Burnett.
If putting themselves on the line for 7 years at 23 per for an overweight pitcher with a ton of miles on his arm the last two years isn’t the most insane thing you’ve ever heard, the offer to Burnette might just beat it.
I'll defer to Dave on this one since he does a better job handling the prospects
But I’d guess gap power + good OBP with defense that doesn’t suck.
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 7:15 PM PST up reply actions
In other words, the exact opposite of Mike Jacobs
Perhaps a ~Lyle Overbay comp?
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 7:18 PM PST up reply actions
By a few measures, not by others
Perhaps Overbay with worse defense then.
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 7:20 PM PST up reply actions
Baltimore and Washington offering Texeira
$20 mil per?
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2008/12/teixeira-negoti.html
You know what? Fuck you Sports Gods, fuck you.
Hey, visitor from LGT here.
What do you guys think of Valbuena? Obviously he’s still really young, but what type of player do you see him developing into, like on a scale of 1 to 10 Asdrubals? Opinions seem a little divided at LGT right now, not sure what to make of him yet.
Well...
In many organizations he may not be all that highly thought of. In ours, he’s about the only play that ever sees ball 4.
Right now he seems to have above average defense and singles/doubles power.
Heilman would be heading to Cleveland
According to the Newark StarLedger.
I like it less if we don't get a third player
and Heilman ain’t a bad guy to get
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 7:18 PM PST up reply actions
Hey, fellas, stopping over from LGT:
Gutz might be the best defensive outfielder in the game, at any position. His bat is a total mystery — he has pretty great batspeed but struggles with breaking stuff. Wicked fast but not a fabulous SB threat. Can probably hold down a starting spot on his own with his glove, but it’s good to have a lefty to platoon him with. Seems like a good teammate, never heard any complaints.
Can anybody give me the ETA on Valbuena in the majors?
by fleerdon on Dec 10, 2008 7:18 PM PST reply actions
This thing could be huge:
LAS VEGAS — The Mets, Indians and Mariners are discussing a 12-player trade in which Seattle reliever J.J. Putz would go to the Mets. In the deal being discussed, the Mets would surrender six players, including outfielder Endy Chavez, relief pitcher Aaron Heilman and first base prospect Mike Carp. The Indians would be giving up rightfielder Franklin Gutierrez.
Rosenthal just updated his blog with this
Under terms of the deal, the Mets would get Putz, outfielder Jeremy Reed and reliever Sean Green. The Mariners would receive reliever Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first baseman Mike Carp from the Mets. They’d also get Franklin Gutierrez from the Indians and minor leaguers. The Indians would get reliever Joe Smith from the Mets and infielder Luis Valbuena from Seattle.
by seattlesundevil on Dec 10, 2008 7:26 PM PST up reply actions
Would that mean no more Tuesdays with Sean Green?
by seattlesundevil on Dec 10, 2008 7:26 PM PST up reply actions
NO! TWSG must live on!
Every day I hear about Seattle sports' failures. Every night I fall asleep to the sound of my own tears.
Chavez would presumably take over as the fourth OF because I think Zduriencik wants to give Wlad a full-time opportunity
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 7:30 PM PST up reply actions
Or your moms Forehead
You may gain some yards on the ground, but eventually Lofa will end up biting you in the ass.
by Scruffy Lefty on Dec 10, 2008 7:36 PM PST up reply actions
Fuck this noise >:(
Just as TWSG was getting really good.
So... what? We are lookin at
Heilman, Chavez, Carp, Gutierrez, Indian minor leagers for Putz, Reed, Green and Valbuena? Wow.. Z isn’t wasting time
by seattlesundevil on Dec 10, 2008 7:28 PM PST up reply actions
There's more!
LAS VEGAS — The Mariners are reportedly going to include newly signed bullpen coach John Wetteland, a 6-pack of Pyramid Hefeweisen, chocolate covered moose droppings, and a Kingdome ceiling tile.
Why does everyone love Valbuena so much, he's not even a top 5
spect in a bad M’s system. The guy has never hit enough to be more than a league average MLB player down the road, at best. These guys are replaceable
Well...
1) He’s left handed.
2) He’s plus with the glove.
3) He has a clue at the plate.
and 4) if second doesn’t work out, he’s capable of being a utility guy.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 10, 2008 7:34 PM PST up reply actions
He might be better than Yuni right now and he's set to be a good value at second base for a number of years
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 7:35 PM PST up reply actions
Am I the only one who thinks 'spect' is annoying?
I mean, you are taking out three letters. What is the time saved in typing prospect instead of spect? .05 seconds?
I thought it was a typo.
Yes, that’s annoying. I’m against any abbreviation that takes place on the wrong side of the word.
I will now go throw my ’za in the oven.
League average guys who play for free aren't easily replaceable.
I’m not quite as high on him as others, but he’s extremely nice to have around, if his glove really is as good as it has looked.
Holy shit
Why tonight. I’m still at work and instead of working I’m watching this god damn rumor
You may gain some yards on the ground, but eventually Lofa will end up biting you in the ass.
Hey me too!!
Makes work MUCH more entertaining.
by seattlesundevil on Dec 10, 2008 7:36 PM PST up reply actions
This seems very possible to fall apart..
SOOO many moving parts.
by seattlesundevil on Dec 10, 2008 7:38 PM PST up reply actions
Let me get this straight
The Indians are giving up Gutierrez, and minor leaguers for Joe Smith and Valbuena?
Don’t expect much from the minor leaguers. And does Shapiro put A. Cabrera at SS?
Unless Peralta’s moving to Third, no
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Dec 10, 2008 7:40 PM PST up reply actions
poor andy
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Dec 10, 2008 7:42 PM PST up reply actions
Anyone notice a potentially HUGE problem here?
Sean Green AND Putz gone = Morrow in the bullpen chances double.
Especially if we are getting Heilman who is demanding a trade so that he can start
by seattlesundevil on Dec 10, 2008 7:40 PM PST up reply actions
That was from the Newark Ledger reporter.
But there have been too many varying reports to have an idea of whats really happening.
He's Aaron Heilman
If he doesn’t like it he can fuck himself
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 7:42 PM PST up reply actions
We were getting Heilman before Green's name was inputted into the equation.
Plus he doesn’t even want to. Very confusing trade. I hatre speculation!
Green is a ROOGY
it’s not like he’s really worth anything more than comic relief
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 7:44 PM PST up reply actions
While he may replaceable...for now its still 2 people out of our pen.
Who knows what plans are for Heilman.
I can't see any way in the world he starts
If we keep him
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 7:52 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, that is bad.
But Heilman could theoretically relieve and if we’re getting both Gutierrez and Chavez, we might be trading one of them or one of our outfielders in the minors for more relief help.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 10, 2008 7:41 PM PST up reply actions
Plus there's a decent chance Heilman > Putz next year
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 7:42 PM PST up reply actions
Plus we could be picking up an arm in the Rule 5 anyway.
One that doesn’t suck for a change.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 10, 2008 7:46 PM PST up reply actions
YES
with Sean Green out of the way Roy Corcoran can really take his awesomeness to the next level
by Simon Phoenix on Dec 10, 2008 7:50 PM PST up reply actions
From Castroturf.
The Indians receive Smith and Valbuna.
The Mariners receive Gutierrez from the Tribe and Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first baseman Mike Carp from the Mets.
The Mets receive Putz, Reed and reliever Sean Green.
So it’s a nine-player swap, with the Indians giving up Gut to get a situational right-handed reliever and an infield prospect that the Mariners were considering for their starting second base job next season.
Wishful thinking perhaps.
Maybe I hold out hope that the new administration looks at present middle infield duo and sees two former top prospects who still have potential despite erratic play.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 10, 2008 7:51 PM PST up reply actions
I dunno.. I have read a couple places about some other unnamed minor leaguers coming our way
What a fun night!
by seattlesundevil on Dec 10, 2008 7:48 PM PST up reply actions
Rule IV is comin up.. maybe they are eyein someone
by seattlesundevil on Dec 10, 2008 7:50 PM PST up reply actions
There are two things wrong there.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 10, 2008 7:51 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know where the last half hour went.
I don’t know that I care either.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
Matthew seriously thought the Cardinals were going to trade Ankiel + Rasmus for Putz
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 8:01 PM PST up reply actions
But there's like nine more minutes left.
They just diagnosed the PotW.
The montage sucks, but there's a couple of scenes before that.
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 8:07 PM PST up reply actions
So far so good...
Just getting to the montage.
OH WHAT THE FUCK!?
THIS STORYLINE IS SUPPOSED TO BE DEAD
NO NO NO STOP THIS RIGHT NOW
YOU STOP THAT RIGHT NOW YOU TWO
YOU LISTENED TO ME ABOUT THE RAYS
YOU DID NOT LISTEN TO ME ABOUT HOUSE AND YOU HAVE PAID DEARLY FOR YOUR INSOLENCE
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 8:13 PM PST up reply actions
I was so overwhelmed by the first 41 minutes I didn't give a shit
fuck tha hataz
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 8:14 PM PST up reply actions
And now there is less of them
Where’s the problem?
by Robert on Dec 10, 2008 8:15 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
In that case...
I would have simply transported the fetus to a smuckers jar and used one of the lights used to grow pot to keep it warm
by Robert on Dec 10, 2008 8:18 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
One way to check is to type your password in.
Passwords get hidden as asterisks in hidden threads.
See?: *******
the other angels fan
by Eyebrows on Dec 10, 2008 9:00 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I AM BUT A FOOL
HAD I STOPPED WATCHING THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE GREATEST EPISODE SINCE HOUSE HIT ON THE MIDGET
Well non-season finale episode.
I’m not sure anything can top House’s Brain or last season’s finale.
i don’t even watch this show but this sub thread is entertaining
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Dec 10, 2008 8:12 PM PST up reply actions
I watched House for the first time last night.
It was . . . just like the Cracked thing you linked to.
For how long?
on a 3 yeah deal that seems OK.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 10, 2008 8:00 PM PST up reply actions
The Yankees have increased their offer to A.J. Burnett to include a fifth year, according to a major-league source. That development was first reported by ESPN.com. The offer is for $91 million, according to a major-league executive.
I remember when I thought he might be a bargain
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 8:01 PM PST up reply actions
I heard the Braves were going to offer a fifth year, and he might want to get out of the AL East.
Not sure of the dollar amount, though.
I have a bad feeling about this deal.
I have eight watches. None of them are fake.
by RafaelCarmona22 on Dec 10, 2008 8:01 PM PST reply actions
I think that's a step up from previous deals.
We knew those were bad out of the gate.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 10, 2008 8:02 PM PST up reply actions
Can't say for sure
presumably no more than it does any other righty’s.
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 8:07 PM PST up reply actions
There was another deal, so says Baker.
Previous three-way deal had collapsed
It seems the current three-team trade proposal between the Mariners, Mets and Indians, involving J.J. Putz, came together after another three-team effort fell apart. That prior effort involved the Mariners, Tigers and Tampa Bay Rays.
In that proposal, the Tigers would have kicked first baseman Jeff Larish into the pot, but not outfielder Matt Joyce. No word on whether the Rays would have sent someone to Seattle, but the M’s wound up walking away. At that point, the Tigers turned around and dealt Joyce to the Rays for starter Edwin Jackson.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
This is where
Bavasi used to dig in and do whatever it took to get the deal done just to prove something.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 10, 2008 8:09 PM PST up reply actions
Left-handed sock?
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 10, 2008 8:10 PM PST up reply actions
I need a left handed sock...
all my right handed ones are worn out.
Already re-signed with the Royals.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 10, 2008 8:11 PM PST up reply actions
Update from Rosenthal
If the trade is completed, one problem for the Mets could be that Putz wants to remain a closer. Asked earlier in the day if Putz would embrace a setup role for another team, his agent Craig Landis said “no.”
by seattlesundevil on Dec 10, 2008 8:08 PM PST reply actions
I want K-Rod to be the set-up man so bad.
by Aaron Campeau on Dec 10, 2008 8:32 PM PST up reply actions
Pointing to the sky and screaming after the end of the 8th inning
while everyone walks calmly back to the dugout, ignoring him.
the other angels fan
This is crazy...
The M’s I am used to protect all information as if it were vital to the national security of the USA. Jack Z just comes out of his room and tells all.
Goddammit, why do we have to be the next team to employ the captain of the Mets Failpen.
I have eight watches. None of them are fake.
by RafaelCarmona22 on Dec 10, 2008 8:10 PM PST reply actions
WOnder who is the "Indian Minor Leaguer" in question is?
The deal sys we get “OF Gutierrez, RHRP Heilman, 1B Carp, OF Chavez, Indians minor leaguers.”
BOOYA! You got Slurved!
This could be the difference maker
I hate sending away Valbuena, and Gutierrez is the only interesting player coming back so far.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 10, 2008 8:14 PM PST up reply actions
Don't know.
We suddenly went form twelve player deal to nine.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 10, 2008 8:14 PM PST up reply actions
69!
You may gain some yards on the ground, but eventually Lofa will end up biting you in the ass.
by Scruffy Lefty on Dec 10, 2008 8:15 PM PST up reply actions
You and Coach are the only ones providing semi-legitimate answers
so you can understand his frustration
by ningwers on Dec 10, 2008 8:21 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Is cautious optimism ok?
I have eight watches. None of them are fake.
by RafaelCarmona22 on Dec 10, 2008 8:17 PM PST up reply actions
I wonder if this means we're more likely to sign Fields
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
Another good point.
That would alleviate the bullpen panic. I believe Z was supposed to be talking to Boras about it sometime soon.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 10, 2008 8:18 PM PST up reply actions
Well let's see. If we sign Fields, this is how our pen looks:
Fields
Heilman
Corcoran
Jimenez
Lowe
Batista
Not terrible.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Dec 10, 2008 8:19 PM PST up reply actions
I'd revise that.
Add in a Rule 5 kid, maybe subtract Jimenez, or replace him with Thomas.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 10, 2008 8:20 PM PST up reply actions
Rosenthal
UPDATED 11:12 p.m. — Done deal: Mets acquire Putz
The Mets have acquired a setup man for new closer Francisco Rodriguez — and that setup man is another closer from the American League West.
J.J. Putz is headed New York in a three-team trade with the Mariners and Indians, according to major-league sources.
Under terms of the deal, the Mets get Putz, outfielder Jeremy Reed and reliever Sean Green from Seattle. The Mariners receive reliever Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first baseman Mike Carp from the Mets. They also get Franklin Gutierrez from the Indians and minor leaguers. The Indians get reliever Joe Smith from the Mets and infielder Luis Valbuena from Seattle.
From the Mets’ perspective, the deal is Heilman and Smith for Putz. Chavez and Reed are simply an exchange of backup outfielders, Smith and Green are an exchange of right-handed groundball specialists.
wee?
You may gain some yards on the ground, but eventually Lofa will end up biting you in the ass.
by Scruffy Lefty on Dec 10, 2008 8:19 PM PST up reply actions
so did we do good?
You may gain some yards on the ground, but eventually Lofa will end up biting you in the ass.
by Scruffy Lefty on Dec 10, 2008 8:19 PM PST up reply actions
Please someone tell me if we did good or not.
I’m too conditioned to expect awful things from trades.
And I'm tired
You may gain some yards on the ground, but eventually Lofa will end up biting you in the ass.
by Scruffy Lefty on Dec 10, 2008 8:23 PM PST up reply actions
And USSM hasn't crashed yet.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 10, 2008 8:20 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know how to feel.
also RIP Tuesdays with Sean Green.
I have eight watches. None of them are fake.
by RafaelCarmona22 on Dec 10, 2008 8:21 PM PST up reply actions
Tuesdays without Sean Green ought to be interesting.
Man: …
Man: You there Sean?
Man: …
Man: :(
by HARRYP09 on Dec 10, 2008 8:23 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
There would be three pauses.
He’s not waiting long enough.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 10, 2008 8:24 PM PST up reply actions
If we end up with Endy when the dust clears
This is a massively good deal for us.
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 8:23 PM PST up reply actions
Late inning defense of Endy, Gutz and Ichiro?
Holy crap
by seattlesundevil on Dec 10, 2008 8:25 PM PST up reply actions
Washburn's trade value goes through the roof.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 10, 2008 8:26 PM PST up reply actions
He could flip a tizzy and still pitch well
Holy fuck did his free agent prospects just get fucked over. I fhe pitches well he’ll be two years removed from the job.
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 8:31 PM PST up reply actions
How does Gutierrez compare to say, Adam Jones?
I have eight watches. None of them are fake.
by RafaelCarmona22 on Dec 10, 2008 8:25 PM PST reply actions
Worse bat, better glove, similar overall value right now
AJ has higher upside.
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 8:29 PM PST up reply actions
Anyone else think that Z is going this route, at least in part,
to make his pitchers look better? Maybe he can get something for Washburn when he’s sporting a 3 ERA in June.
the other angels fan
Is Gutierrez basically a .750 OPS guy with elite defense?
If Heilman can bounce back to pre 08 form, he has value
Dave did a good piece at Fangraphs.
Seems like Heilmann’s decline came when he tried to add a third pitch.
So does this basically end our offseason?
Beltre talks seem to have cooled off as of late – maybe that’s because of the Putz talk though?
by seattlesundevil on Dec 10, 2008 8:27 PM PST reply actions
In the span of a week
We went from Raul being the weak link in the OF to Ichiro.
by Robert on Dec 10, 2008 8:28 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
Trade the bum.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 10, 2008 8:29 PM PST up reply actions
Goodbye JJ
I’ll miss you… no more AC/DC at M’s games now either…
My heart has been thunderstruck… =(
BOOYA! You got Slurved!
That's the feeling keeping me from enjoying this influx of young cheap decent talent.
Im gonna miss JJ, alot.
I have eight watches. None of them are fake.
by RafaelCarmona22 on Dec 10, 2008 8:32 PM PST up reply actions
I don't trust new guys.
Since Perry left how many new guys have we had as hitting coach? Isn’t Pentland the only one to remain here for more than one season?
I'm a little surprised that Cleveland is doing this deal
It seems like they are getting the worse return.
We have a glut of AAAA OF’ers. With the addition of Brantley and La Porta (in the CC trade), we really needed to get SOMETHING out of one of them.
Franky G has had plenty of chances. We will dearly miss is amazing defense .. but the bat just hasn’t caught up.
You guys will see it. He will have a three game stretch where the ball FLIES off his bat and you will begin to think he could be a .280 25 homer guy … but then he will go into an inexplicable 0-27 slump over the next two weeks. I’m not exaggerating either, he will post a couple 0 fer 20+ AB slides in a season. But his defense is THAT good that you almost forgive him for it.
No, but Jack's talking to Boras.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
by JY on Dec 10, 2008 8:31 PM PST up reply actions
Hahaha
Wow, all said and done, the Mariners Traded a guy who has the ability to be a top 5 closer for essentially a long man reliever, two 4th outfielders, and an above average NY hyped prospect?
Tribe traded a 4th outfielder for a future starting 2b, and a valuable bullpen arm.
And the mets traded a bunch of broken pieces and parts for a top 5 closer… who will be used as a set up man.
I am not a Mariners fan, but I am calling for the resignation of their GM.
Terrible trade
Posted by: Wahoo2009 | December 10, 2008 at 10:33 PM
the other angels fan
They called the Joyce for whoever deal a steal for the tigers.
And a potential Hamilton-Volqeuz deal
BOOYA! You got Slurved!
The Mariners would receive right-handed pitcher Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first baseman Mike Carp from the Mets along with outfielder Franklin Gutierrez from the Indians.
"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/
I had the tv on, it was ~tied
indulged myself here for a few minutes, looked up and they had a 30 point lead.
by JI on Dec 10, 2008 8:46 PM PST up reply actions
WSU's great defense....
just got absolutely crushed by the Zags in the first 10 minutes of the second half. This game went from close to a blowout in about 5 minutes.
Zags are really really really good.
Hooray for defense!
This’ll really help out Silva and Washburn, no?
Remember Paul Abbot / John Halama?
Yeah, they were good with a Winn,Cameron,Ichiro OF
by seattlesundevil on Dec 10, 2008 8:47 PM PST up reply actions
This leaves a weird feeling in my stomach.
I have eight watches. None of them are fake.
by RafaelCarmona22 on Dec 10, 2008 8:46 PM PST reply actions
Learning to hate him is going to be strange
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 10, 2008 8:48 PM PST up reply actions
Felix hit a grand slam off the ace of his rotation.
I have eight watches. None of them are fake.
by RafaelCarmona22 on Dec 10, 2008 8:48 PM PST up reply actions
Funny thing is, if he bounces back, he's better than K-Rod.
I don’t expect him to repeat 2007 or anything, but if he stops walking guys . . .
I never claimed it as mine.
I have eight watches. None of them are fake.
by RafaelCarmona22 on Dec 10, 2008 8:55 PM PST up reply actions
no, it's from a forum i go to.
I have eight watches. None of them are fake.
by RafaelCarmona22 on Dec 10, 2008 8:58 PM PST up reply actions
ah, Puckett.
he was “enamored” when he heard the Ms might get Ankiel for JJ. he still is obsessing about Gutierrez’ numbers, but at least acknowledges the Ms need bodies.
He’s a Professional Baseball Reporter.
speaking of crap baseball reporting
KIRO’s Bill Swartz amazingly bad blogging from the winter meetings. Man they better sign Drayer soon.
ooh … just in per Elise— journeyman outfielders at best, a struggling reliever which is not as good as what you gave up in Green, and you gotta hope Carp improves
So to recap
We have a barely over league minimum 1B platoon for 09 with a solid prospect waiting for 10. We have two great OF gloves added. We’ve lost a closer coming off a poor season, a 2B prospect, and a ROOGY. I’d say B/B+.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 10, 2008 8:55 PM PST reply actions
Reading the comments on Baker's blog is hilarious
You’d think it was the Soriano – Ramirez trade all over
by seattlesundevil on Dec 10, 2008 8:55 PM PST up reply actions
I guess it's LaHairdly worth reigning in all the puns, then.
Seeing as he’ll be banished somewhere soon.
the other angels fan
On the plus side, Nazi jokes will be back in full force.
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
I HATE ILLINOIS NAZIS!!!!
It's hard to convince people to let you eat them if you're an asshole. - Thingray
I haven't been brave enough to go over there.
lessee:
this is the continuation of all the bad trades since Varitek….
he had the opportunity to bring in a power hitter in Ankiel and failed….
we are STILL bottom-feeding…. 1976 all over again, a pretty feild and some jive, no-name ball-players
So the extra minor leagues all seem to be pretty junk
Although I’m thrilled to have Maikel Cleto. Finally, we have what we need to compete with the Angels.
by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 10, 2008 9:03 PM PST reply actions
Baker lists the prospects:
As well, they get three more minor leaguers from the Mets, right handed pitcher Maikel Cleto, outfielder Ezequiel Carrera and left handed pitcher Jason Vargas.
Anyone know anything about these guys>
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