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Nighttime Rumor Thread

Tiny by Jeff on in Miscellaneous Comment 682 comments

This one's new.

The Mets are working to acquire a setup man for new closer Francisco Rodriguez — and that setup man would be another closer from the American League West.

J.J. Putz could be headed to the Mets in a three-team trade with the Mariners and Indians, according to major-league sources.

Mets right-hander Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first-base prospect Mike Carp would be in the deal, as would Indians outfielder Franklin Gutierrez.

It is not yet clear which players are headed where.

Matthew's Addendum: Mike Carp is a name we've bandied about before as wanting from the Mets, back in good times when we thought Jarrod Washburn was to be no more. Obviously, we wouldn't know where the proposed deal sends which players and likely there would be other names involved, but the general sense right now is that Carp and Heilman would end up with us. I am nonplussed for the moment.

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Jeff's note: My read is that, were this to go down, we'd actually be landing Franklin Gutierrez as the centerpiece. And that would be absolutely a-ok with me. Gutierrez's offense could stand to improve, but the straight defensive improvement over Raul would seriously be on the order of like 35-40 runs. There are worse trades to make.

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Matthew's note to Jeff's note: Getting Franklin Gutierrez certainly makes more sense from a roster standpoint and would actually be the better haul. I certainly hope that's the deal, though I wouldn't mind getting Carp as well as he's an interesting enough 22-year-old LH 1B with patience

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Jeff's note to Matthew's note to Jeff's note: I can already feel myself getting too invested in what's probably going to be another rumor that doesn't go anywhere.

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Update from Rosenthal:

Under terms of the deal, the Mets would get Putz, outfielder Jeremy Reed and reliever Sean Green from Seattle. The Mariners would receive reliever Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first baseman Mike Carp from the Mets. They'd also get Franklin Gutierrez from the Indians and minor leaguers. The Indians would get reliever Joe Smith from the Mets and infielder Luis Valbuena from Seattle.

If the trade is completed, one problem for the Mets could be that Putz wants to remain a closer. Asked earlier in the day if Putz would embrace a setup role for another team, his agent Craig Landis said "no."

From the Mets' perspective, the deal would be Heilman and Smith for Putz. Chavez and Reed would be an exchange of backup outfielders, Smith and Green an exchange of right-handed groundball specialists.

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Matthew's note to Jeff's note to Matthew's note to Jeff's note: Who looks stupid now?

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Graham's note to Matthew's note to Jeff's note to Matthew's note to Jeff's note: Bill Bavasi?

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Seems a little light.

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on Dec 10, 2008 6:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Is JJ even fully healed yet?

Didn’t we think he was at the beginning of the season? Heck, he may already have a serious injury.

by Coach Owens on Dec 10, 2008 6:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmmm.

If JJ has already suffered one and K-Rod suffers one during the season. JI said odds are one of them gets hurt bad during next season…. Does JJ’s injury count?

by Coach Owens on Dec 10, 2008 6:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Exclusive OR?

Jeff's guide to not looking stupid:
+/- is an absolutely terrible stat, so don't use it, and don't give up on young players before they turn 24.
54!

by joof on Dec 10, 2008 8:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ahhhhhhhhhhh.

didn’t see this at all.

BOOYA! You got Slurved!

by Slurvey on Dec 10, 2008 6:17 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

はい　そですね

BOOYA! You got Slurved!

by Slurvey on Dec 10, 2008 6:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hiragana

And I can read it just fine.

You know what? Fuck you Sports Gods, fuck you.

by bluemax on Dec 10, 2008 6:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wish I could.

Then I would have some idea of what the fuck is going on around me.

by brayden04 on Dec 10, 2008 7:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I can.

It would roughly mean, “yes, he can”. And by roughly I mean the literal translation wouldn’t make quite as much sense in English

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 10, 2008 7:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

zOMG no politics

Jeff's guide to not looking stupid:
+/- is an absolutely terrible stat, so don't use it, and don't give up on young players before they turn 24.
54!

by joof on Dec 10, 2008 8:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Gutz (as he’s known by some Tribe fans) should be an elite defender in CF

by APV on Dec 10, 2008 8:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

On Gutierrez:

+/-, UZR, and PMR all have him as being either the best or one of the best defensive right fielders in baseball, and that’s with 284 games of experience. His glove is phenomenal.

by Jeff on Dec 10, 2008 6:20 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

If this went down we'd have a

Gutierrez/?/Ichiro outfield

by JI on Dec 10, 2008 6:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So we'd be buying low?

Go, Jack, go!

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 10, 2008 7:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Trying to understand Gutz’s offense is going to be a frustrating exercise. His swing has undergone major restructuring during his development and he struggles to maintain a consistent approach. At times he has major contact problems and a long swing, at other times he seems to have great control of the plate but a lack of power. He has power potential, as evidence by the monster HRs he occasionally hits, but he hasn’t been able to do it consistently.

by APV on Dec 10, 2008 8:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Won't Gutierez's already so-so offense

suffer from moving to Safeco?

The
Richie,
the

by Rollo Tomasi on Dec 10, 2008 6:25 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

22 in 800 ABs

meh.

The
Richie,
the

by Rollo Tomasi on Dec 10, 2008 6:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A little bit

But he’s never really flashed plus power.

by Jeff on Dec 10, 2008 6:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm gonna project 2007 out to 650 PAs

stick my fingers in my ears and call it good

by JI on Dec 10, 2008 6:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

On the Mlbblogs site

they have the Mariners giving up Valbuena and Reed as possibilities in this deal too.

I’d hate to lose Valbuena as he’s one of maybe 3 hitters in the organisation with some plate discipline.

by marinerdan on Dec 10, 2008 6:26 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Gutierrez, Heilman and Carp

I REALLY don’t like Heilman. I might actually like the deal better if he were not involved.

by tait644 on Dec 10, 2008 6:33 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Moar Info:
The particulars of the deal were still being worked out Wednesday night at the Bellagio, but MLB.com has learned the Mariners would likely receive Indiansoutfielder Franklin Gutierrez and the Indians would receive Mets right-handed reliever Joe Smith and Mariners infielder Luis Valbuena.

Mets right-hander Aaron Heilman and Mariners outfielder Jeremy Reed are also believed to be involved, though it is unclear who is headed where.

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on Dec 10, 2008 6:37 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Wait

Putz, Reed, AND Valbuena for Gutierrez? Me thinks some players are missing.

by tait644 on Dec 10, 2008 6:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

B'oh
The Detroit Tigers are set to acquire right-hander Edwin Jackson from the Tampa Bay Rays for outfielder Matt Joyce, according to a major-league source. — Ed Price

by Jeff on Dec 10, 2008 6:38 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

YESYESYES

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on Dec 10, 2008 6:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Link?

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on Dec 10, 2008 6:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

They got friedman'd.

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on Dec 10, 2008 6:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Come on.

We need to fleece somebody way more than the Rays do.

The
Richie,
the

by Rollo Tomasi on Dec 10, 2008 6:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Baker's chiming in.
And now, the halls are reverberating with rumors of a three-way deal with the Mets and Cleveland Indians that would send Franklin Guttierez to Seattle, with Putz and Luis Valbuena going the other way.

by BrianL on Dec 10, 2008 6:44 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Me neither.

Also, we better get back more than Guitierrez.

by Matthew on Dec 10, 2008 6:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Late

and yes we do

by JI on Dec 10, 2008 6:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

hmmmm...

Putz and Valbuena for Guttierez? There has to be more to this. I guess I can live with a guy who can run and play defense for a change.

by PLU Tim on Dec 10, 2008 7:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I was just poking around yesterday,

and their offense in 2008 was virtually the same as 2007. They got Garza, but Kazmir started sucking.

It’s amazing how much they improved with just defense and a good bullpen.

by Teej on Dec 10, 2008 6:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

USSM:
Second Update: Apparently, the M’s are going to give up Putz, Reed, and Luis Valbuena and get Gutierrez, Aaron Heilman, and Mike Carp, with various assorted pieces ending up in Cleveland and New York. It’s a remarkably interesting deal on a lot of levels. I love Gutierrez’s glove, but would have preferred Joyce as a better fit for Safeco. Heilman demanded a trade because he wants to start, and we’ve already got too many starters. And I hate giving up Valbuena, but Carp could be a legit 1B of the future. We’ll break it all down once it becomes official.

by JI on Dec 10, 2008 7:03 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Zduriencik says there's something in the works.

Via TNT:

Just left our meeting with Mariners general manger Jack Zduriencik and it appears as though a deal for closer J.J. Putz could happen sometime in the coming days and possibly tonight.

When asked if a proposal on the table, Zduriencik said. “Yes, there is something to think about in detail.”

When asked if a deal could happen on Thursday or even tonight, he said, “Very possible.”

Now, the trick is figuring out who the deal could be with.

by Teej on Dec 10, 2008 7:03 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

If anyone wants to think negatively of this possible trade

just remind yourself of Rafael Soriano for Horacio Ramirez, and repeat to yourself “this is much better.”

by marinerdan on Dec 10, 2008 7:05 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

As an aside:

Is Joe Smith the most generic name ever?

by Goose on Dec 10, 2008 7:09 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Hey, visitor from LGT here.

What do you guys think of Valbuena? Obviously he’s still really young, but what type of player do you see him developing into, like on a scale of 1 to 10 Asdrubals? Opinions seem a little divided at LGT right now, not sure what to make of him yet.

by LGT33 on Dec 10, 2008 7:17 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Well...

In many organizations he may not be all that highly thought of. In ours, he’s about the only play that ever sees ball 4.

Right now he seems to have above average defense and singles/doubles power.

by PLU Tim on Dec 10, 2008 7:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Many thanks for the feedback. I hope you guys get a good return for Putz.

by LGT33 on Dec 10, 2008 7:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Heilman would be heading to Cleveland

According to the Newark StarLedger.

by Slica on Dec 10, 2008 7:17 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I like it less if we don't get a third player

and Heilman ain’t a bad guy to get

by JI on Dec 10, 2008 7:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, fellas, stopping over from LGT:

Gutz might be the best defensive outfielder in the game, at any position. His bat is a total mystery — he has pretty great batspeed but struggles with breaking stuff. Wicked fast but not a fabulous SB threat. Can probably hold down a starting spot on his own with his glove, but it’s good to have a lefty to platoon him with. Seems like a good teammate, never heard any complaints.

Can anybody give me the ETA on Valbuena in the majors?

by fleerdon on Dec 10, 2008 7:18 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

This thing could be huge:

LAS VEGAS — The Mets, Indians and Mariners are discussing a 12-player trade in which Seattle reliever J.J. Putz would go to the Mets. In the deal being discussed, the Mets would surrender six players, including outfielder Endy Chavez, relief pitcher Aaron Heilman and first base prospect Mike Carp. The Indians would be giving up rightfielder Franklin Gutierrez.

by Goose on Dec 10, 2008 7:25 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Rosenthal just updated his blog with this
Under terms of the deal, the Mets would get Putz, outfielder Jeremy Reed and reliever Sean Green. The Mariners would receive reliever Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first baseman Mike Carp from the Mets. They’d also get Franklin Gutierrez from the Indians and minor leaguers. The Indians would get reliever Joe Smith from the Mets and infielder Luis Valbuena from Seattle.

by seattlesundevil on Dec 10, 2008 7:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Fuck this noise >:(

Just as TWSG was getting really good.

by BrianL on Dec 10, 2008 7:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So... what? We are lookin at

Heilman, Chavez, Carp, Gutierrez, Indian minor leagers for Putz, Reed, Green and Valbuena? Wow.. Z isn’t wasting time

by seattlesundevil on Dec 10, 2008 7:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think the Indian MiLs would be worth much

if they are only getting Smith and Valbuena

by tait644 on Dec 10, 2008 7:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There's more!
LAS VEGAS — The Mariners are reportedly going to include newly signed bullpen coach John Wetteland, a 6-pack of Pyramid Hefeweisen, chocolate covered moose droppings, and a Kingdome ceiling tile.

by PLU Tim on Dec 10, 2008 7:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Why does everyone love Valbuena so much, he's not even a top 5

spect in a bad M’s system. The guy has never hit enough to be more than a league average MLB player down the road, at best. These guys are replaceable

by DarkLou on Dec 10, 2008 7:33 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Well...

1) He’s left handed.
2) He’s plus with the glove.
3) He has a clue at the plate.
and 4) if second doesn’t work out, he’s capable of being a utility guy.

"Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett http://mvn.com/marinersminors/

by JY on Dec 10, 2008 7:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Am I the only one who thinks 'spect' is annoying?

I mean, you are taking out three letters. What is the time saved in typing prospect instead of spect? .05 seconds?

by brayden04 on Dec 10, 2008 7:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought it was a typo.

Yes, that’s annoying. I’m against any abbreviation that takes place on the wrong side of the word.

I will now go throw my ’za in the oven.

by Teej on Dec 10, 2008 7:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

League average guys who play for free aren't easily replaceable.

I’m not quite as high on him as others, but he’s extremely nice to have around, if his glove really is as good as it has looked.

by Teej on Dec 10, 2008 7:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Holy shit

Why tonight. I’m still at work and instead of working I’m watching this god damn rumor

You may gain some yards on the ground, but eventually Lofa will end up biting you in the ass.

by Scruffy Lefty on Dec 10, 2008 7:35 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Hey me too!!

Makes work MUCH more entertaining.

by seattlesundevil on Dec 10, 2008 7:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I have to head to work in 2 hours.

Come on Z, hurry up and get this done or kill it.

by Goose on Dec 10, 2008 7:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Let me get this straight

The Indians are giving up Gutierrez, and minor leaguers for Joe Smith and Valbuena?

Don’t expect much from the minor leaguers. And does Shapiro put A. Cabrera at SS?

by tait644 on Dec 10, 2008 7:39 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Unless Peralta’s moving to Third, no

Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.

by Gradyforpresident on Dec 10, 2008 7:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He’s playing there in winter ball.

by Voltaire on Dec 10, 2008 7:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

poor andy

Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.

by Gradyforpresident on Dec 10, 2008 7:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone notice a potentially HUGE problem here?

Sean Green AND Putz gone = Morrow in the bullpen chances double.

by Slica on Dec 10, 2008 7:39 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I’ve seen a report that put Heilman with the Tribe. Any more news on this?

by Voltaire on Dec 10, 2008 7:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That was from the Newark Ledger reporter.

But there have been too many varying reports to have an idea of whats really happening.

by Slica on Dec 10, 2008 7:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not true

Heilman would probably close

by JI on Dec 10, 2008 7:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He's Aaron Heilman

If he doesn’t like it he can fuck himself

by JI on Dec 10, 2008 7:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs