Things that are so goddamned fucking stupid they make my blood boil

by JI on Nov 8, 2008 4:35 PM PST

Still, maybe the Cardinals should think twice about their proposed trade for Holliday, which, according to one source, would require them to part with outfielders Ryan Ludwick and Skip Schumaker along with right-hander Mitchell Boggs.

The Cardinals, then, would risk keeping Holliday for only one season while giving up three years of Ludwick, four years of Schumaker and six of Boggs.

Link

This would be like trading Carlos Pena and Iwamura for Todd Helton. Excuse me while I go have a heart attack.

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That's definitely prohibited on SBN.

I do it during the day.

At the mall.

Screw you, Mariners. I'm back in football's loving arms. *edit: well, shit. This isn't going well.

by kevin_ess on Nov 8, 2008 4:47 PM PST up 0 recs

During the day?

You’re safe. It’s the nights you gotta watch out for.

by brayden04 on Nov 8, 2008 4:51 PM PST up 0 recs

I don't like nights.

Or knights. Never touch yourself around a knight. Fucking swords.

Screw you, Mariners. I'm back in football's loving arms. *edit: well, shit. This isn't going well.

by kevin_ess on Nov 8, 2008 4:53 PM PST up 1 recs

oh well oh well oh well-ah hoo!

Tell me more! Tell me more!

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Nov 8, 2008 11:13 PM PST up 0 recs

Like fun do you do that at the mall!

by katal on Nov 8, 2008 11:19 PM PST up 0 recs

Yeah! Like fun!

Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.

by BrettJMiller on Nov 9, 2008 12:18 AM PST up 0 recs

Ludwick for Holliday straight up would be a disaster

Holliday sucks

by JI on Nov 8, 2008 4:47 PM PST up 0 recs

It's a shitty deal for the Cardinals, but Holliday does not suck. I'd take a .417 wOBA on my team.

Now giving all that talent just to get .004 wOBA points better is retarded. But it’s not as if Holliday is bad.

Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.

by BrettJMiller on Nov 8, 2008 4:53 PM PST up 0 recs

Holliday is a career .280/.348/.455 hitter on the road

His defense is probably worse than Ludwick’s.

Compared to Ludwick he blows.

by JI on Nov 8, 2008 4:55 PM PST up 0 recs

And he's .357/423/.645 at home

Coors doesn’t make you that much better. Better to take the overall line and adjust it for park than to just look at road performance.

by Jeff on Nov 8, 2008 4:56 PM PST up 1 recs

Then what would you project him at?

Even if you ramp his numbers up a bit, it’s not as good as what Ludwick should do next year. While Ludiwck’s average might have been a bit high, his power is 100% legit.

by JI on Nov 8, 2008 4:58 PM PST up 0 recs

Assuming a little regression on Ludwick's part and using StatCorner's adjustment for Holliday

they are very similar players, and given their respective contract statuses I’d much rather have Ludwick. But I think you could make a decent argument that Holliday might be a little better, or that he’s at least more of a guarantee to sustain than Ludwick is.

Dumb trade, though.

by Jeff on Nov 8, 2008 5:01 PM PST up 0 recs

Completely agreed.

Screw you, Mariners. I'm back in football's loving arms. *edit: well, shit. This isn't going well.

by kevin_ess on Nov 8, 2008 5:03 PM PST up 0 recs

I just have hard time seeing it

I don’t see one thing Holliday is even close to being better at except hitting for average and stealing bases.

by JI on Nov 8, 2008 5:05 PM PST up 0 recs

Hmm.

Those things matter.

Screw you, Mariners. I'm back in football's loving arms. *edit: well, shit. This isn't going well.

by kevin_ess on Nov 8, 2008 5:17 PM PST up 0 recs

Not nearly as much as the other things

by JI on Nov 8, 2008 5:27 PM PST up 0 recs

Holliday's seen by the zone ratings as a better fielder, too.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Nov 10, 2008 3:54 PM PST up 0 recs

I've heard a theory

that says Coors not only improves home hitting numbers, but depresses the road numbers of people who play there regularly.

Something about the thin air making pitches not break normally, so hitters crush the ball at home but Rockies on the road see unfamiliar and possibly “better” movement.

Any truth to this?

by Simon Phoenix on Nov 8, 2008 7:27 PM PST up 0 recs

BP looked into this a few years ago but I can't find it

If I recall correctly I believe that theory didn’t stand up.

by Jeff on Nov 8, 2008 7:41 PM PST up 0 recs

Jeff Cirilo thought it was true

by JI on Nov 8, 2008 7:49 PM PST up 0 recs

Jeff Cirillo is got of the asshats.

Screw you, Mariners. I'm back in football's loving arms. *edit: well, shit. This isn't going well.

by kevin_ess on Nov 8, 2008 7:54 PM PST up 0 recs

God, even.

Screw you, Mariners. I'm back in football's loving arms. *edit: well, shit. This isn't going well.

by kevin_ess on Nov 8, 2008 7:54 PM PST up 0 recs

Bad players need excuses

by Jeff on Nov 8, 2008 7:55 PM PST up 0 recs

My point exactly.

by JI on Nov 8, 2008 8:23 PM PST up 0 recs

Sigh.

Screw you, Mariners. I'm back in football's loving arms. *edit: well, shit. This isn't going well.

by kevin_ess on Nov 8, 2008 9:27 PM PST up 0 recs

Holliday's road numbers could also be depressed

by the parks which he plays a large portion of his road games in (Petco, AT&T, Chavez Ravine, all pitcher’s parks).

This.

by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 6:38 AM PST up 0 recs

Yup.

When your home park is Coors, your road parks include everywhere EXCEPT Coors.

And all hitters tend to hit better at home, all else being equal. It’s called home field advantage.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Nov 10, 2008 3:55 PM PST up 0 recs

This.

I’m sick of everyone quoting Holliday’s road stats as his true talent level.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Nov 10, 2008 3:53 PM PST up 0 recs

...Okay I was thinking Roy Halladay.

Yeah, that’s terrible.

by BrianL on Nov 8, 2008 4:56 PM PST up 0 recs

I hear Kevin Jarvis is looking for work...

Screw you, Mariners. I'm back in football's loving arms. *edit: well, shit. This isn't going well.

by kevin_ess on Nov 8, 2008 4:57 PM PST up 0 recs

I don't like this idea at all

all that for maybe – maybe – one extra win.

by Jeff on Nov 8, 2008 4:49 PM PST 0 recs

This would subtract wins

Holliday is Raul Ibanez with good defense.

by JI on Nov 8, 2008 4:50 PM PST up 0 recs

And a better name.

by brayden04 on Nov 8, 2008 4:50 PM PST up 0 recs

I think of gifts.

Screw you, Mariners. I'm back in football's loving arms. *edit: well, shit. This isn't going well.

by kevin_ess on Nov 8, 2008 4:56 PM PST up 0 recs

Umm...

Raul Ibanez 54 bRAA 2006-8
Matt Holliday 137 bRAA 2006-8

You’re underselling Holliday.

by Matthew on Nov 8, 2008 5:28 PM PST up 0 recs

Thank you. This.

Screw you, Mariners. I'm back in football's loving arms. *edit: well, shit. This isn't going well.

by kevin_ess on Nov 8, 2008 5:30 PM PST up 0 recs

Does that adjust for park?

by JI on Nov 8, 2008 5:31 PM PST up 0 recs

Yes.

by Matthew on Nov 8, 2008 5:33 PM PST up 0 recs

And yes, I am probably under selling him

But he’s much close to being in the class of guys like Burrell, Ibanez, and Guillen then he is to being among the elite outfielders. his average is probably going to go up in smoke when he leaves Colorado and he’s going to be a 290ish 20 HR guy who doesn’t walk a whole lot. He’s vastly inferior to Ludwick.

by JI on Nov 8, 2008 5:34 PM PST up 0 recs

What you're doing here

is just as “stupid” as the trade you’re arguing against.

There’s no freaking way that Holliday is close to Guillen. It’s not even worth spending more than a couple seconds looking at.

And 80 runs over 3 seasons, using Matthew’s numbers, doesn’t make him close at all to Ibanez. Especially not when you consider that Holliday is usually one of the better defensive OFs in MLB, and that Ibanez is usually among the worst. That’s, fairly conservatively, another 20 runs or so a year. A difference of 40-50 runs a year is not “close”.

The same applies to Burrell too.

Who are these “elite” outfielders that Holliday isn’t close to? Who are these “elite” OFs who are more than 50 runs better than Holliday?

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Nov 9, 2008 11:22 PM PST up 0 recs