Gold Glove Voters Are Occasionally Accurate, Hilarious
by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 5, 2008 10:18 PM PST
in Miscellaneous
70 comments
I was on the fence about posting these results since they're irrelevant and totally stupid, but I know people will probably want to talk about them, so here's a link to your 2008 Gold Glovers. Commentary by categorization:
Reasonable
Yadier Molina
Jimmy Rollins
Carlos Beltran
Shane Victorino
Joe Mauer
Adrian Beltre
Grady Sizemore
Questionable
Greg Maddux
Mike Mussina
Brandon Phillips
David Wright
Carlos Pena
Dustin Pedroia
Ichiro
Laughable
Mike Young
Nate McLouth
Adrian Gonzalez
Torii Hunter
Neither Gonzalez nor Hunter are bad defenders, mind you, but in their cases there are such obviously superior options that you can't even make a decent case for them winning. Young and McLouth just suck a lot.
Congratulations to Adrian Beltre for winning an award he deserves, and to Ichiro for winning an award he probably doesn't. Honestly, Ichiro probably belongs under "laughable" with the other four (I mean, come on, Carlos freaking Gomez, people), but I can't bring myself to do it, so whatever. The only thing that matters here is that, were the Gold Gloves an exam in any college class other than second semester organic chemistry, the voters just flunked. I know, I know. I can't believe it either.
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I'm not sure why but I thought Adrian Gonzalez was significantly better than what his RZR seems to indicate.
by BrianL on Nov 5, 2008 10:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Gonzalez seems to be a little above average, but it's silly to vote for anyone but Pujols
by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 5, 2008 10:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Has Pujols always been a epic defender because this concept is relatively new to me
by Robert on Nov 5, 2008 10:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously that's true.
I’m just not sure why I had Gonzalez rated so highly in my mind.
Why wouldn’t these people vote for Pujols, though? Seems like a lot of these voters seem to think that excellent offense and excellent defense are mutually exclusive in a player.
by BrianL on Nov 5, 2008 10:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ding ding ding
The catcher’s paradox isn’t limited to catchers.
by Matthew on Nov 5, 2008 11:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Carlos Gomez?
Pffft! He doesn’t hit well enough to get a Gold Glove.
54!
by joof on Nov 5, 2008 10:44 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
How does Adam Jones rate
compared to the rest of the field, and…Gomez? How many runs above average is he?
by _David_ on Nov 5, 2008 11:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
AJ seems to be somewhere between above average and really good
and early results have Gomez as a +15 < x < +25 CF.
by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 5, 2008 11:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even allowing for some regression to the mean, he is absolutely dynamite
a shame about Delmon Young, because Gomez/Span is an awesome two-thirds of an outfield.
by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 5, 2008 11:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
McLouth?!
Wow. The Gold Gloves really are stupid.
I’m surprised Yuni didn’t win one. He’s right there with Young.
by b_rider on Nov 6, 2008 6:01 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I don't see what the big deal is...
The times I watched Pittsburg (3 times), he was awesome out there. Does that mean he should win a GG, no, not necessarily, but to be outraged by him getting one seems like a little much. His numbers are decent. Who else are you guys advocating out of the NL over McLouth?
FULLY agree on Carlos Gomez though, he’s Cammy good out there. I spent half my summer telling this Twin ‘fan’ I know about him. Like DUDE watch your team….
I have a cousin with 1 testicle, when they yell play ball, he smiles.
by Montucky on Nov 6, 2008 7:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Chris Young? Randy Winn? Shane Victorino? Fred Lewis?
Adam Dunn had a better RZR than McLouth this year. It’s only one year and all, but still, it seems obvious that McLouth won this Gold Glove with his bat.
by Teej on Nov 6, 2008 8:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that is a better list.
I always forget about Fred Lewis. I saw him in ST and he could fly. And I really let myself down by forgetting Winn. I miss his LF skills.
I haven’t seen much of Chris Young, other than the oft ESPN clip. But I really don’t follow the D’Backs, he should be fun to watch as he matures.
ALRIGHT, so there’s better choices than McLouth. Didn’t we already agree that GG voters aren’t highly intelligent?
I have a cousin with 1 testicle, when they yell play ball, he smiles.
by Montucky on Nov 6, 2008 12:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Young was really really good this year.
The Mike Cameron comparisons seem to be getting more and more apt each year.
by Goose on Nov 6, 2008 5:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Basically he was the best non Beltran CF in the NL
/-:23
RZR:.947
OOZ:92
FRAR:34
Zone Rating:.889
by Goose on Nov 6, 2008 6:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. He's ridiculous out there.
And no one talks about him because his fantasy numbers went down. He raised his OBP 20 points, though. Still not great in that department, but with his glove and power, he’s a wonderful player to have around. He’s going to be underrated for the duration of his career.
by Teej on Nov 7, 2008 10:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair, out of zone plays would push McLouth up a bit
but only from “worst” to something like “safely below average” – I haven’t seen UZR numbers for the guy, but yeah… statistically not that awesome.
by marc w on Nov 6, 2008 9:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
-14 this year
-21 in 2006, -16 in 2007.
by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 6, 2008 9:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rob Neyer agrees with you.
Nate McLouth, though? Quite frankly, this is like some horrible joke, roughly on par with giving three Gold Gloves to Derek Jeter (2004 to 2006) or giving one to Rafael Palmeiro (1999) on the strength of 28 games.
According to John Dewan’s Fielding Bible data, McLouth was 40 plays worse than average, dead last among major league outfielders. According to Baseball Prospectus, McLouth was 17 runs — runs, not plays — worse than an average center fielder. According to Bill James’ win shares, McLouth’s outfield defense was 46th-most-valuable in the majors. This is exactly the sort of award that only damages the reputation of the honor.
by BrianL on Nov 6, 2008 10:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, now I just feel like a tool.
And rightly so.
I have a cousin with 1 testicle, when they yell play ball, he smiles.
by Montucky on Nov 6, 2008 12:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And the Mariners keep their streak alive
21 years and counting.
by katal on Nov 6, 2008 6:43 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Clearly this organization knows how to value defense
by seattlebruin on Nov 6, 2008 6:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well lets hope this means the will RETAIN Beltre.
His services are hugely needed at 3B.
I have a cousin with 1 testicle, when they yell play ball, he smiles.
by Montucky on Nov 6, 2008 7:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
More likely his trade value has increased slightly instead...
I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.
by EnglishMariner on Nov 6, 2008 10:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ooo-Oo Lillibridge!!
I couldn’t help myself.
Man, if they trade Belter’s, he better bring a boatload back. Its going to take a lot to fill that void inside. It better be shiny, real shiny, with flashing lights and a horn. Just keep my attention so I won’t have to look back and see the sad past of losing Belter’s.
I have a cousin with 1 testicle, when they yell play ball, he smiles.
by Montucky on Nov 6, 2008 12:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
as well as
the voteres giving out these awards anyway
by RollingWave on Nov 10, 2008 2:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you fucking shitting me?
I don’t know of any fan, SABR or not, who thinks he is anything close to a good fielder.
by JI on Nov 6, 2008 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Basically every broadcaster....
He was a decent 2b defender (though I still don’t know what, say, UZR said about him), and then he selflessly moved positions to accommodate Soriano. Scrappy, selfless, formerly a good defender (at another position, but never mind that) = defensive gold.
by marc w on Nov 6, 2008 10:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A-Rod selflessly moved to third
Jeter selfishly stayed at short
Jeter won the gold gloves.
by JI on Nov 6, 2008 10:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but A-Rod isn't selfless
ZOMGCONTRACT! He’s also the opposite of clutch AND scrappy. He’s too talented to be scrappy, so he’s “wasting” his talent by folding under pressure. Or something.
I never said broadcasters were fair.
by marc w on Nov 6, 2008 11:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Brandon Phillips can pick it. He's a SS inexplicably playing 2nd. That's not questionable. I'm mean, you could say Utley was awesome and his is, but it's justifiable to think Phillips is the best defensive SS in the league.
Tools Whore
Sign Bonds!
by Tyler on Nov 6, 2008 1:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I say inexplicably, because his team doesn't have a good SS, not because he would be an elite SS. I have no clue how good of a SS he'd be, but Reds fans have been saying he should play there basically since he got there.
Tools Whore
Sign Bonds!
by Tyler on Nov 6, 2008 1:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You know that other box works too, right?
This one? Just checking…
I'm more like I am now than I've ever been.
by ralphie81 on Nov 6, 2008 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but I don't like it as much.
Tools Whore
Sign Bonds!
by Tyler on Nov 7, 2008 8:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
When you're a guest in somebody's house
it’s always polite to abide by their rules and customs.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Nov 7, 2008 8:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Subject line length has no defined rule.
by Robert on Nov 7, 2008 9:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thus, "customs"
it is generally customary to use both subject line and body text.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Nov 7, 2008 9:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Nov 7, 2008 9:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have not found that to be the case.
J.K.L.
by acblue on Nov 7, 2008 11:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I kind of feel the same way about Asdrubal Cabrera.
The stats don’t back it up yet (though he was decent on OOZ plays), but hell, it’s not like Jhonny Peralta’s an elite defender.
I think Cabrera at SS, Peralta at 2b maximizes the value of each.
by marc w on Nov 6, 2008 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I really expected this to happen coming into the 2008 season.
by Teej on Nov 6, 2008 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Peralta is too big and clunky to play second
He’d probably have to move to third.
by JI on Nov 6, 2008 6:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Indians lurker,
And you are correct. Shapiro’s looking for either a 2B to shift everyone to the left, or a 3B to fill that hole.
Hey, I hear no one wants Adrian Beltre in Seattle. Not a single person. Practically giving him away, they say.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Nov 6, 2008 9:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh hellz yes
I’m sure the Ms could have him if Zoidberg so desired.
The only reason Barfield isn’t on the bottom of the totem pole is because we still have Andy Marte.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Nov 7, 2008 11:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If I could acquire him for dirt, I would.
Just in case. There was some promise there. He’s worth keeping in AAA.
by Teej on Nov 8, 2008 12:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Organic chemistry?
You don’t think they could have aced Creative Writing?
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on Nov 6, 2008 6:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they're just coasting by on a Darts scholarship.
"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"
by Torgen on Nov 6, 2008 6:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why is Torii Hunter Laughable
He is a great defender always making highlight reel catches. I don’t think he made an error this year either.
by Flamefox111 on Nov 6, 2008 6:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The latter two things you just listed have very little to do with the spirit of the award.
And Jeff preemptively answered your question
Neither Gonzalez nor Hunter are bad defenders, mind you, but in their cases there are such obviously superior options that you can’t even make a decent case for them winning.
by Matthew on Nov 6, 2008 6:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, what's that thing under the Aurora bridge called again?
Maybe I’m overreacting to the presence of “flame” in the u/n, but….
by marc w on Nov 7, 2008 12:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's called the Ship Canal
the Fremont Bridge shelters the troll of which you speak.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.
by pdb on Nov 7, 2008 6:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You live in Portland, so I'll give you a pass
but the Fremont troll isn’t under the Fremont bridge. It’s under the Aurora Bridge (aka Geo. Washington bridge). The ship canal bridge is part of I-5, not the 99.
Amirite, Corco?
by marc w on Nov 7, 2008 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fuck Corco, I know you're right.
J.K.L.
by acblue on Nov 7, 2008 11:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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