Gold Glove Voters Are Occasionally Accurate, Hilarious

by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 5, 2008 10:18 PM PST in Miscellaneous Comment 70 comments

I was on the fence about posting these results since they're irrelevant and totally stupid, but I know people will probably want to talk about them, so here's a link to your 2008 Gold Glovers. Commentary by categorization:

Reasonable

Yadier Molina
Jimmy Rollins
Carlos Beltran
Shane Victorino
Joe Mauer
Adrian Beltre
Grady Sizemore

Questionable

Greg Maddux
Mike Mussina
Brandon Phillips
David Wright
Carlos Pena
Dustin Pedroia
Ichiro

Laughable

Mike Young
Nate McLouth
Adrian Gonzalez
Torii Hunter

Neither Gonzalez nor Hunter are bad defenders, mind you, but in their cases there are such obviously superior options that you can't even make a decent case for them winning. Young and McLouth just suck a lot.

Congratulations to Adrian Beltre for winning an award he deserves, and to Ichiro for winning an award he probably doesn't. Honestly, Ichiro probably belongs under "laughable" with the other four (I mean, come on, Carlos freaking Gomez, people), but I can't bring myself to do it, so whatever. The only thing that matters here is that, were the Gold Gloves an exam in any college class other than second semester organic chemistry, the voters just flunked. I know, I know. I can't believe it either.

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I'm not sure why but I thought Adrian Gonzalez was significantly better than what his RZR seems to indicate.

by BrianL on Nov 5, 2008 10:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Gonzalez seems to be a little above average, but it's silly to vote for anyone but Pujols

by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 5, 2008 10:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Has Pujols always been a epic defender because this concept is relatively new to me

by Robert on Nov 5, 2008 10:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

As a first baseman, yes

by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 5, 2008 10:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Certainly not as an outfielder

by JI on Nov 6, 2008 10:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Obviously that's true.

I’m just not sure why I had Gonzalez rated so highly in my mind.

Why wouldn’t these people vote for Pujols, though? Seems like a lot of these voters seem to think that excellent offense and excellent defense are mutually exclusive in a player.

by BrianL on Nov 5, 2008 10:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ding ding ding

The catcher’s paradox isn’t limited to catchers.

by Matthew on Nov 5, 2008 11:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Carlos Gomez?

Pffft! He doesn’t hit well enough to get a Gold Glove.

54!

by joof on Nov 5, 2008 10:44 PM PST reply actions 1 recs

How does Adam Jones rate

compared to the rest of the field, and…Gomez? How many runs above average is he?

by _David_ on Nov 5, 2008 11:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

AJ seems to be somewhere between above average and really good

and early results have Gomez as a +15 < x < +25 CF.

by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 5, 2008 11:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That's obscene.

J.K.L.

by acblue on Nov 5, 2008 11:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Even allowing for some regression to the mean, he is absolutely dynamite

a shame about Delmon Young, because Gomez/Span is an awesome two-thirds of an outfield.

by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 5, 2008 11:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Good heavens.

by BrianL on Nov 5, 2008 11:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

McLouth?!

Wow. The Gold Gloves really are stupid.

I’m surprised Yuni didn’t win one. He’s right there with Young.

by b_rider on Nov 6, 2008 6:01 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I don't see what the big deal is...

The times I watched Pittsburg (3 times), he was awesome out there. Does that mean he should win a GG, no, not necessarily, but to be outraged by him getting one seems like a little much. His numbers are decent. Who else are you guys advocating out of the NL over McLouth?

FULLY agree on Carlos Gomez though, he’s Cammy good out there. I spent half my summer telling this Twin ‘fan’ I know about him. Like DUDE watch your team….

I have a cousin with 1 testicle, when they yell play ball, he smiles.

by Montucky on Nov 6, 2008 7:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Chris Young? Randy Winn? Shane Victorino? Fred Lewis?

Adam Dunn had a better RZR than McLouth this year. It’s only one year and all, but still, it seems obvious that McLouth won this Gold Glove with his bat.

by Teej on Nov 6, 2008 8:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oops, Victorino did win.

by Teej on Nov 6, 2008 8:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, that is a better list.

I always forget about Fred Lewis. I saw him in ST and he could fly. And I really let myself down by forgetting Winn. I miss his LF skills.
I haven’t seen much of Chris Young, other than the oft ESPN clip. But I really don’t follow the D’Backs, he should be fun to watch as he matures.

ALRIGHT, so there’s better choices than McLouth. Didn’t we already agree that GG voters aren’t highly intelligent?

I have a cousin with 1 testicle, when they yell play ball, he smiles.

by Montucky on Nov 6, 2008 12:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Young was really really good this year.

The Mike Cameron comparisons seem to be getting more and more apt each year.

by Goose on Nov 6, 2008 5:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Basically he was the best non Beltran CF in the NL

/-:23
RZR:.947
OOZ:92
FRAR:34
Zone Rating:.889

by Goose on Nov 6, 2008 6:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes. He's ridiculous out there.

And no one talks about him because his fantasy numbers went down. He raised his OBP 20 points, though. Still not great in that department, but with his glove and power, he’s a wonderful player to have around. He’s going to be underrated for the duration of his career.

by Teej on Nov 7, 2008 10:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Weird, that top numer is suppsed to be plus 23 runs.

by Goose on Nov 6, 2008 6:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair, out of zone plays would push McLouth up a bit

but only from “worst” to something like “safely below average” – I haven’t seen UZR numbers for the guy, but yeah… statistically not that awesome.

by marc w on Nov 6, 2008 9:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

-14 this year

-21 in 2006, -16 in 2007.

by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 6, 2008 9:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep.

Think where he’d be with, oh, 70 OOZ plays.

by marc w on Nov 6, 2008 10:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Rob Neyer agrees with you.

Nate McLouth, though? Quite frankly, this is like some horrible joke, roughly on par with giving three Gold Gloves to Derek Jeter (2004 to 2006) or giving one to Rafael Palmeiro (1999) on the strength of 28 games.

According to John Dewan’s Fielding Bible data, McLouth was 40 plays worse than average, dead last among major league outfielders. According to Baseball Prospectus, McLouth was 17 runs — runs, not plays — worse than an average center fielder. According to Bill James’ win shares, McLouth’s outfield defense was 46th-most-valuable in the majors. This is exactly the sort of award that only damages the reputation of the honor.

by BrianL on Nov 6, 2008 10:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yowch.

Even worse than the RZR data (which was just plain bad).

by marc w on Nov 6, 2008 10:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ok, now I just feel like a tool.

And rightly so.

I have a cousin with 1 testicle, when they yell play ball, he smiles.

by Montucky on Nov 6, 2008 12:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And the Mariners keep their streak alive

21 years and counting.

by katal on Nov 6, 2008 6:43 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Clearly this organization knows how to value defense

by seattlebruin on Nov 6, 2008 6:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well lets hope this means the will RETAIN Beltre.

His services are hugely needed at 3B.

I have a cousin with 1 testicle, when they yell play ball, he smiles.

by Montucky on Nov 6, 2008 7:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

More likely his trade value has increased slightly instead...

I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.

by EnglishMariner on Nov 6, 2008 10:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ooo-Oo Lillibridge!!

I couldn’t help myself.
Man, if they trade Belter’s, he better bring a boatload back. Its going to take a lot to fill that void inside. It better be shiny, real shiny, with flashing lights and a horn. Just keep my attention so I won’t have to look back and see the sad past of losing Belter’s.

I have a cousin with 1 testicle, when they yell play ball, he smiles.

by Montucky on Nov 6, 2008 12:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Belter's?

Belter’s what?

I'm more like I am now than I've ever been.

by ralphie81 on Nov 6, 2008 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

as well as

the voteres giving out these awards anyway

by RollingWave on Nov 10, 2008 2:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Mike Young???

by JI on Nov 6, 2008 10:46 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Are you fucking shitting me?

I don’t know of any fan, SABR or not, who thinks he is anything close to a good fielder.

by JI on Nov 6, 2008 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Basically every broadcaster....

He was a decent 2b defender (though I still don’t know what, say, UZR said about him), and then he selflessly moved positions to accommodate Soriano. Scrappy, selfless, formerly a good defender (at another position, but never mind that) = defensive gold.

by marc w on Nov 6, 2008 10:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

A-Rod selflessly moved to third

Jeter selfishly stayed at short

Jeter won the gold gloves.

by JI on Nov 6, 2008 10:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but A-Rod isn't selfless

ZOMGCONTRACT! He’s also the opposite of clutch AND scrappy. He’s too talented to be scrappy, so he’s “wasting” his talent by folding under pressure. Or something.

I never said broadcasters were fair.

by marc w on Nov 6, 2008 11:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Best player in the AL west!

by hcoguy on Nov 6, 2008 11:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Brandon Phillips can pick it. He's a SS inexplicably playing 2nd. That's not questionable. I'm mean, you could say Utley was awesome and his is, but it's justifiable to think Phillips is the best defensive SS in the league.

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on Nov 6, 2008 1:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I say inexplicably, because his team doesn't have a good SS, not because he would be an elite SS. I have no clue how good of a SS he'd be, but Reds fans have been saying he should play there basically since he got there.

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on Nov 6, 2008 1:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You know that other box works too, right?

This one? Just checking…

I'm more like I am now than I've ever been.

by ralphie81 on Nov 6, 2008 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but I don't like it as much.

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on Nov 7, 2008 8:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

When you're a guest in somebody's house

it’s always polite to abide by their rules and customs.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 7, 2008 8:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Subject line length has no defined rule.

by Robert on Nov 7, 2008 9:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thus, "customs"

it is generally customary to use both subject line and body text.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 7, 2008 9:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Is it?

by Graham on Nov 7, 2008 9:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yup.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 7, 2008 9:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I have not found that to be the case.

J.K.L.

by acblue on Nov 7, 2008 11:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

In other words

-U

by NOLAmarinergirl on Nov 7, 2008 12:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I kind of feel the same way about Asdrubal Cabrera.

The stats don’t back it up yet (though he was decent on OOZ plays), but hell, it’s not like Jhonny Peralta’s an elite defender.
I think Cabrera at SS, Peralta at 2b maximizes the value of each.

by marc w on Nov 6, 2008 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I really expected this to happen coming into the 2008 season.

by Teej on Nov 6, 2008 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe Peralta is too big and clunky to play second

He’d probably have to move to third.

by JI on Nov 6, 2008 6:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Indians lurker,

And you are correct. Shapiro’s looking for either a 2B to shift everyone to the left, or a 3B to fill that hole.

Hey, I hear no one wants Adrian Beltre in Seattle. Not a single person. Practically giving him away, they say.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Nov 6, 2008 9:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Have they given up on Barfield?

by Teej on Nov 7, 2008 10:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh hellz yes

I’m sure the Ms could have him if Zoidberg so desired.

The only reason Barfield isn’t on the bottom of the totem pole is because we still have Andy Marte.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Nov 7, 2008 11:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If I could acquire him for dirt, I would.

Just in case. There was some promise there. He’s worth keeping in AAA.

by Teej on Nov 8, 2008 12:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Organic chemistry?

You don’t think they could have aced Creative Writing?

"He almost has to start. Do you believe in miracles?"

by Torgen on Nov 6, 2008 6:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Neither Gonzalez nor Hunter are bad defenders, mind you, but in their cases there are such obviously superior options that you can’t even make a decent case for them winning.

by Matthew on Nov 6, 2008 6:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey, what's that thing under the Aurora bridge called again?

Maybe I’m overreacting to the presence of “flame” in the u/n, but….

by marc w on Nov 7, 2008 12:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That's called the Ship Canal

the Fremont Bridge shelters the troll of which you speak.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 7, 2008 6:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You live in Portland, so I'll give you a pass

but the Fremont troll isn’t under the Fremont bridge. It’s under the Aurora Bridge (aka Geo. Washington bridge). The ship canal bridge is part of I-5, not the 99.

Amirite, Corco?

by marc w on Nov 7, 2008 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs