Lookout Landing: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Around SBN: The Record of Wrongs: Vanderbilt Commodores

14 Of 32 NL BBWAA Voters Certifiable; Remaining 18 Arguably Certifiable

The NL MVP voting results were released today, and while overall they got right the only thing that really matters, a closer look at the ballot totals reveals a pair of unforgivable mistakes:

  • Albert Pujols only received 18 of 32 first-place votes, with 12(!) going to Ryan Howard(!!) and 2(!!!) going to Brad Lidge(!!!!)
  • Chase Utley finished 15th

I know it's beyond tired to complain about the BBWAA, but while some will take the selection of Pujols as a sign of how far they've come, I'd say the results would be better taken as a sign of how far they still have to go before we can even think about taking their opinions seriously. Pujols is the best player in baseball. By a healthy margin. And peak Chase Utley is one of the greatest second basemen in the history of the sport, a guy basically making a career out of Bret Boone's presumably artificial ceiling. How that guy finished third on his own team - without a single top-three vote - just blows my mind to the point at which I have to cover my ears so as not to decorate the walls on either side of my head with boiling CSF.

It's insane. It is inexcusable and completely insane. Brad Lidge? Ryan flipping Howard? It just - ...no. You know who would've been a better first-place vote than Ryan Howard? Randy Winn. Or Brad Hawpe. Maybe even Fred diddly God damn Lewis. There were literally dozens of more valuable players in the NL this year than Ryan Howard. Howard finished second. 13 slots ahead of Chase Utley, who was the better player by at least like three or four wins. This is the stuff migraines are made of. Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave.

I wonder if there are any other fields in the world in which the people who cover a given topic know so little about the topic.

0 recs  |  Comment 88 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

More from Lookout Landing

Assorted Thoughts On Game One

Oct 2009 by Jeff Sullivan - 42 comments

Comments

Display:

but! but!

Ryan Howard carried them down the stretch! everyone said so! it MUST be true!

by msb on Nov 17, 2008 3:18 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I love how the same people who believe this choose to ignore the fact that he dragged his team down in the first half.

Utley and Co. kept that team alive while Howard was Howard was OBPing .310 for the first three months of the season. Had he been hitting back then, maybe the team wouldn’t have needed to be carried.

But I forget, those games don’t count.

by Teej on Nov 17, 2008 3:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The BBWAA no doubt has an inordinate amount of members that eat at Subway

so Howard was probably as fresh in their minds as that turkey sub they had for lunch.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 17, 2008 3:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

well, sure

but is it an MVP sandwich, or just a very good sandwich in an otherwise undistinguished menu?

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 17, 2008 3:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ryan Howard's September

He’s just smart enough to know that September is “triple points month” for most of the BBWAA voters. That .352 average? It was really 1.056. 11 HRs? Actually 33. And so on. With numbers like that, how can you resist voting for him?

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Nov 18, 2008 10:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cheers.

I like to think I’m one of the idle rich, although all the evidence indicates otherwise.

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Nov 18, 2008 10:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

if you're like me you're halfway there

now all you gotta worry about is the “rich” part.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 18, 2008 1:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

One man gave Pujols a 7th place vote

One Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel . His article and “explanations” here.

1. Ryan Howard, Phil
2. CC Sabathia, Mil
3. Manny Ramirez, LA
4. Carlos Delgado, NY
5. Aramis Ramirez, Chi
6. Prince Fielder, Mil
7. Albert Pujols, Stl
8. Ryan Ludwick, Stl
9. Ryan Braun, Mil
10. David Wright, NY

It takes like actual anti-knowledge of baseball to come up with that list and order.

by nfreakct on Nov 17, 2008 3:30 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Saw that. Simply stunning.

I’m trying to find one single way in which Prince Fielder was better than Albert Pujols.

Hardricourt is blowing my mind right now. If you’re going to be lazy and put Howard at No. 1, fine I guess, but putting Pujols at No. 7 means that you absolutely, without doubt, do not know anything about baseball and should have all voting privileges taken away immediately.

by Teej on Nov 17, 2008 3:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Better neck tattoos

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 17, 2008 3:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Most jersey fabric used

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 17, 2008 3:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Someone wrote this comment on his page:
Pujols had a great year but he didn’t help raise his team’s level of play, which is what I think an MVP should have to do in order to win the award.

That’s just an amazing amount of stupid packed into one sentence. No one carried his team more than Albert. He just a much bigger hole to carry his team out of than any of these guys who “carried their teams to the playoffs.”

by Teej on Nov 17, 2008 3:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought Ryan Ludwick had just as much to do with keeping the Cards in the hunt as Pujols did. St. Louis did stay in the wild card race until mid-September, but mainly because the Brewers and Mets were gagging at the time.

Look I want Ryan Ludwick inside of me as much as the next guy, but this guy is an idiot.

Furcal

by JI on Nov 17, 2008 3:43 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

AH!
St. Louis did stay in the wild card race until mid-September, but mainly because the Brewers and Mets were gagging at the time.

THE METS’ GAGGING IS WHAT ALLOWED RYAN HOWARD’S TEAM TO REACH THE PLAYOFFS!

by Teej on Nov 17, 2008 3:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And I realize I spelled his name wrong but whatever.

If he can’t take 30 seconds to look up Albert Pujols’ fucking triple-slash numbers, then I’m not going to double-check the spelling of his name.

by Teej on Nov 17, 2008 3:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Weeeeeee
I understand that the Cardinals would not have been even close to the wild-card berth without Pujols, but I still like players who elevate their game in crunch time and lift their teams to new heights. And I thought Ryan Ludwick had just as much to do with keeping the Cards in the hunt as Pujols did. St. Louis did stay in the wild card race until mid-September, but mainly because the Brewers and Mets were gagging at the time.

If the Mets and Brewers hadn’t “gagged” then Howard’s Phillies wouldn’t have seen the playoffs either.

by Jeff Sullivan on Nov 17, 2008 3:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So by his own definition

Delgado shouldn’t even be considered because he didn’t so much carry his team to the playoffs as choke.

Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Nov 17, 2008 3:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If we hadn't picked Justin Leone

instead of Pujols, we’d have much more to bitch about

Furcal

by JI on Nov 17, 2008 3:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So Ryan Howard fed the Mets and Brewers turkey subs from Subway

Forcing them to gag. I think the MVP votes for him were valid then.

by Sec 108 on Nov 17, 2008 4:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This is my favorite.
Pujols as MVP is such a JOKE. It’s a disgrace to the players that deserve the award and MLB. HOW do we listen year after year from the voters, “well, he had a great year but his team didn’t make to the playoffs” or “you cannot vote a MVP from a team that didn’t make the postseason”, but here we are with a MVP from a 4TH PLACE TEAM! This is such a joke and makes a mochary or the sport.

Emphasis mine.

by Fett42 on Nov 17, 2008 5:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And you thought I sucked

Also,

jreims:

According to Pujols own words, he doesn’t deserve to win the award. Albert Pujols quote from 2006, when he got snubbed, and Ryan Howard won the MVP.

“I see it this way: Someone who doesn’t take his team to the playoffs doesn’t deserve to win the MVP.”

I think he should get what he wishes, regardless of how he played. There are enough hypocrites and liars out there That’s not sending a very good example back to the kids in the Dominican Republic.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2680495</blockquote>

Furcal

by JI on Nov 17, 2008 5:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't like this guy.

Really? Prince Fielder? Wow…

by Kirkharbaugh on Nov 17, 2008 3:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wrote up a long reply that nobody on that site will ever read, so I think I'll post it here, too, if nobody minds

I’m not trying to be one of the people who gets emotional and jumps all over you, but I would like to respectfully assert that your reasoning doesn’t have a single ounce of sense to it. Your reasoning for weighing September so heavily has been covered by many other posters already, so I’ll skip it. What I want to look at is how you’ve applied your method to vote for Delgado over Pujols.

Delgado had a wonderful .340/.400/.649 line with 8 homers in September. He dazzled, it’s true. The afterburners were ablaze. Over in St. Louis, during the same month, Pujols posted a .321/.427/.702 line. In less at-bats (thanks to walking more), he matched Delgado’s 8 homers. He had more RBIs. More doubles. He struck out only 1/3 as much. As bright as Delgado shined, Pujols shined brighter still.

And yet, Pujols wasn’t as high on your ballot. So: if you grade on the whole year, Pujols was obviously better. If you grade with a heavy weight on September…well, Pujols was still better. So what I’m saying here is: by voting for Delgado over Pujols, you have literally removed player performance from your equation. You no longer are considering how well a player actually played. You can’t say you are, because Pujols played better than Delgado in every month but July.

So why Delgado’s 4th-place vote? Well, we know the answer don’t we…the Mets pushed toward the playoffs (and failed), while the Cardinals sagged back into 4th place.

In other words, you quite literally based your MVP vote on everything about a player’s team EXCEPT that player. You put the Mets-sans-Delgado in 4th place and the Cardinals-sans-Pujols in 7th. Surely you can see that this is utter nonsense.

The vote is subjective, yes. But the reason the vote is subjective is because the writers are supposed to be the experts—the people who know how to watch the game, look at the numbers, and impart well-reasoned information to the fanbase. You are literally paid to understand the game and share your knowledge, the thing I do for fun. Your method of voting only shows that you have no idea how to do the job entrusted to you in the MVP voting process. You vote haphazardly, utilizing criteria that fail to reflect on the people competing for the award.

It is unfortunate for the fanbase that trusts you to impart their information. It is unfortunate for the game, which seeks to reward its deserving players with prestigious awards befitting of their talents, but has those awards rendered meaningless by failures of the people who give them. And it is unfortunate for the players, who are subject to the whims of your subjective "reasoning," unabashedly biased and statistically ignorant.

Our methods for understanding the game have grown by leaps and bounds. With our increased understanding of statistical application and technology, we can now even measure and document the break of every pitch thrown in every single game. Anybody can order TV packages and watch any team play every day. Anyone can see how any player performed in any of hundreds of situations—for free!—on the internet. Yet the MVP voting process lags behind, weighed down by the voters who refuse to step forward, to take their jobs seriously, and to really attempt to understand how and why they determine value other than to childishly assert, "I can vote however I want, it’s subjective."

It’s a damn shame.

by mojowo11 on Nov 17, 2008 9:27 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

I wonder if there are any other fields in the world in which the people who cover a given topic know so little about the topic.

I could tell you but then you’d have to ban me.

Furcal

by JI on Nov 17, 2008 3:33 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

But HRs and RBIs!?!?!?!

Seriously, this is not surprising at all. MVP voters lurves their Triple Crown stats.

by eponymous_coward on Nov 17, 2008 4:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Yep, but he still led in HRs and RBIs.

Seriously, leading your league in two of three Triple Crown categories makes you a heavy favorite in MVP voting.

by eponymous_coward on Nov 17, 2008 4:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My apologies. I went there and shouldn't have.

Anyway, back your question… it is simply amazing how poor baseball writers are at their job. FJM clearly proved that. Pujols getting the award is at least a sign that there is some hope out there, somewhere, hidden in a dark corner. On the other hand, they probably were just voting for Prince Albert’s BA.

I will accept any draft combination of Crabtree, Andre Smith, Stafford, and Mays. Hear that Ruskell? Time to start spreading vicious rumors about all 4 so they fall.

by abender20 on Nov 17, 2008 4:13 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

As a Mets fan

I want to shake this guy until he understands that Delgado couldn’t even scratch the surface of Pujols’ current greatness.

"I got my pregnant wife (the Yankee fan) with me. Hoping my kid learns to kick her everytime the Mets score." -Schifftis-

by future on Nov 17, 2008 5:53 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Expect Justin Morneau to get a lot of votes

Despite not even being the most valuable hitter on his team (at least, for instance, looking at bRAA at Statcorner) and being one of the worst defenders in the league at first base.

by ubelmann on Nov 17, 2008 8:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Chase Utley

deserve it more than both. Howard’s selection is only slightly less worse than Justin Morneau 06 (since Morneau actually won the MVP, dispite being the 3rd most valuable player on his own team)

by RollingWave on Nov 18, 2008 12:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m going to have to go ahead and disagree with the resounding sentiment here. Ultimately, the right guy won, that much I certainly agree with. Pujols is the best player in the league and absolutely carried his team all season and while they didn’t make the postseason, they came damned close.

As for the Phillies, I don’t think you would find many people who would disagree with the notion that Utley is the most valuable player on that team. Everyone agrees with that. But he was downright average in the second half in the season (remember, you are as good as your last at bat to sportswriters – and most fans) and Ryan Howard absolutely took his game to another level in September. Playing well when the games matter most plays into the complex and unsolvable equation of MVP. It shouldn’t determine the award on that alone, but it certainly plays a role. Plus, with runners on (especially in scoring position), Howard’s average went way up and he drives in runs in bunches. The system isn’t perfect, but these things matter both in the course of a season and to the writers giving the award. To say that there are dozens and dozens of players more valuable than Ryan Howard is laughable. None of this is meant to say that Howard deserves the MVP (he doesn’t) or that Utley isn’t more valuable to the Phillies (he is). I am merely pointing out that because of his HRs, RBIs, BA with RISP and that crazy September, mentioning him in the debate isn’t as absurd as you all are making it seem.

And, in the end, let’s not lose sleep over who finished second in the race because the right guy won the darn thing. We should be more upset at the guy who voted Pujols 7th than anyone who put Howard 1st or 2nd.

by Chris Haines on Nov 18, 2008 11:42 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

A few things:

1) All the games count, not just ones played in September. Howard very well could have torpedoed the Phillies season before it got off the ground if not for Utley’s hot start.

2) Pat Burrell was better than Ryan Howard this year.

3) Jason Werth would have been better had he been a regular for the entire year.

4) Without running any calculations, there’s a decent chance that Victorino and Rollins were better than him as well.

5) Ryan Howard was slightly below average at reaching base, he played horrible defense, isn’t a plus baserunner, (and even though I loathe using this as an argument against him) strikes out at an historic rate. If he’s posting a .438 wOBA* like in 2006, yeah he’s certainly in the discussion. However this year he was a slightly above average hitter for a first baseman, while playing terrible defense. That is not someone who should be mentioned as an MVP.

Furcal

by JI on Nov 18, 2008 12:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Explain to me how Pat Burrell was better than Ryan Howard this year. Average was equal, Howard had more HRs and more RBIs and defense is a wash because Burrell can’t move. I love Pat Burrell, but to say he was better than Ryan Howard this year is ridiculous.

by Chris Haines on Nov 18, 2008 1:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Burrell was much better at reaching base (.367 to .339)

and posted a greater wOBA (.373 to .367), the OBP gap grows larger when you consider that Howard was intentionally walked 17 times compared to Burrell’s 6.

Even if you were to label both he and Howard as equally destructive on defense, Burrell’s superior on base skills make up for having less power than Howard.

Furcal

by JI on Nov 18, 2008 1:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You can’t put aside the intentional walks because therein lie Howard’s value to his team. He is a threat that teams have to neutralize by walking him intentionally TO GET TO BURRELL. Why would they do that if Burrell was more valuable. And I’d further argue that though he got on base more, Burrell was an absolute liability on the basepaths (Howard is no picnic, but better than Burrell) so they’d have to pinch run for him erasing any value he brings beyond that point in the game.

Howard’s value lies in the creation of runs (RBI+R), something he does just about as well as anyone (and almost 100 runs more than Pat Burrell 251-160).

by Chris Haines on Nov 18, 2008 3:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Why would they do that if Burrell was more valuable.

Because they’re dumb?

(RBI+R)

Meaningless. Almost completely depends on his teammates.

Furcal

by JI on Nov 18, 2008 3:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

By reading a game thread of your own volition you agree to accept all liability for any and all damage done to your delicate sensibilities.
Start posting about the Mariners »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Sth70021_small
The Luckiest Pitchers of 2009
Small
A different way of looking at the offseason - Impact on Playoff Hopes
Small
My Favorite Player: Rob Johnson
Clement_small
The Effect of Chemistry in MLB and the Yuniesky Betancourt Exception
Small
On the Shoulders of Giants: A Compilation

Recent FanPosts

Small
Blasphemy?
Small
Cliff Lee had surgery on left foot
Clemente_small
OT cooking thoughts, and oh yeah, there's that football game, Feb 7
39135485-59af19dbb26654095f910f34176af094_4ae8a81e-scaled_small
Predictions Group
Small
A Case For Felipe Lopez
Small
First Thursday in February (and Superbowl!) OT
12839274_l_small
Optimism thread... Give your thoughts about what you predict in '10

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Sexy People

Hms_surprise_small Graham

Small Matthew

Wbc_029_small Jeff Sullivan