One too many Brokeback Jokes
Heath Ledger Found Dead in Olsen Twin's Apartment in NYC
http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003699996
First Brandon Lee, now this - the moral is, don't wear facepaint in a movie until you're willing to risk it being your last.
THIS IS SPARTA THIS IS SPARTA THIS IS SPARTA THIS IS SPARTA THIS IS SPARTA THIS IS SPARTA
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BTW, this is kind of depressing.
Too soon?
Hmmm..
Now who's in big trouble, mister!
//lame
I read he died in his own place,
This is odd as well:
But he scheduled a massuese
If you "were" welcome.
Please, baby.
That's actually quite a surprise
Drugs are bad, kids.
Conspiracy
Ah, the good old days
Yup, far, far, far too soon.
Like Gyllenhaal did?
by Rollo Tomasi on Jan 22, 2008 5:19 PM PST up reply actions
Well
Too soon?
Did he and Renfro ever cheat death together?
you know, I normally don't pay attention to this
by Bearskin Rugburn on Jan 22, 2008 5:57 PM PST reply actions
To clarify
If Jeff died, would there be a diary full of "Too bad it wasn't Bavasi! Too soon?" If it was Felix who OD'd would there be diaries full of "Breaking news: Hernandez placed on IR - For Eternity" posts?
Just feels kind of weak. Ledger was the same age as a lot of us here.
It's obviously an awful situation
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 22, 2008 11:17 PM PST up reply actions
He's in the same boat as an athlete
I just get the feeling if this was some young Allstar pitcher for the Padres there wouldn't be this level of flippancy. What I'm saying, I guess, is what's the difference?
I'll paraphrase a line from Trey Parker
That said... joking is, in a way, a manner of dealing with tragic news. I don't think anyone here holds ill will towards Ledger and his daughter. It's a shame, but let's not take what happened too personal.
I can't speak for anyone else
Sports are something to which I devote an awful lot of my life. Movies aren't. Neither is popular music, which is why I won't care when Britney and Amy Winehouse die next week. They just don't mean as much to me as a pitcher or a hockey goalie.
Being in the film industry, you obviously have a different perspective. I'm sure I would too, were I in your shoes. But I'm not, and so I can't sit here and force myself to really care too much about this.
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 22, 2008 11:39 PM PST up reply actions
well, we made a bunch of Sean Taylor jokes
But seriously, if you, or anyone, feels a personal connection to him, then yeah, you probably don't want to joke about it. But don't try to project your personal connection on the rest of us; and we didn't make any joke about his family.
150,000+ people die every single day. If you want to take them all seriously you'll go mental.
Agreed
It's kind of an odd disconnect we have, and it's one that I guess is necessary. If everyone took these things too seriously the intertubes would be a pretty miserable place to be.
There is, though, a pretty large public misconception about the everyday lives of actors. Once you move down from the A List, it's far more regular than you'd think. I deal with it every day, and it's pretty interesting to see how people actually act compared with how someone walking the streets of Portland will blog about their experience seeing X person browsing a rack at Powell's.
But anyway, your point is more than fair.
Off topic
by Scruffy Lefty on Jan 23, 2008 7:07 AM PST up reply actions
I work on the production side
jbergsma14@yahoo.com
by Scruffy Lefty on Jan 23, 2008 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
Enjoy Rush Limbaugh's newletter, pal!
by Jordan of Boise on Jan 23, 2008 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
Little did you know I'm a conservative
by Scruffy Lefty on Jan 23, 2008 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
Also, I make political jokes.
There is no sense in arguing
I'd rather just buy librocrat a beer and have peaceful discussion in which we both come out happy
by Scruffy Lefty on Jan 23, 2008 3:38 PM PST up reply actions
I
I would rather feel pain for the family of Joe Kennedy, the pitcher who died recently from early heart disease. Now that's sad.
Ironic Heartlessness
We become anxious as a result of the disparity between the world we know and the world that we control, being able to see the entire world yet to be able to nothing to affect its state. Senseless tragedies, violence and injustice are not new phenomenons, but our ancestors had the benefit of ignorance as to the state of affairs beyond their immediate concerns. Like all animals, humans react strongly to stimuli that appear to threaten the basical physiological and psychological needs (e.g. food, shelter, safety) and exposure to information of this nature produces powerful reactions even when the source of the information is distant (such as a new item about a murder that occurs in a different country).
The more information that we are forced to comprehend, the more evidence that the inequities we witness are not personal but Cosmic in nature. As our understanding grows, so does our helplessness. That anxiety, if not consciously realized, it gravely felt on the subconscious mind and compels us to seek relief.
As modern humans with unlimited information and limited power, we are hard pressed to reconcile our desire to correct the wrongs that we perceive in the world around us with the subconscious realization that we will never be able accomplish that desire. The result is a uncomfortable state of cognitive dissonance.
Mechanisms to relieve this informational anxiety vary. Humor is a longstanding means of psychological relief, and it is often employed by modern individuals to reduce the impact of anxiety-provoking information on the psyche. By purposefully trivializing a distressing item, the individual might reduce the subconscious impact of that information and thereby limit their own instinctual reaction.
Dramatic mockery of anxiety-provoking stimuli may also highlight the lack of connection between one's personal sphere of activity and the reported event in a fashion that registers with the subconscious. That is to say, the individual not only demonstrates the non-importance of the distressing information to themselves so as to limit its subconscious threat, but invokes powerful social norms to shape their own behavior. If the individual self-demonstrates a desired reaction, in this case resilience and a lack of anxiety, they effectively act as a social model to the subconscious. The subconscious mind then realizes that it would be socially aberrant to succumb to distress over the stimuli at hand the the superego works in alignment with the desired conscious effort to overcome the basic impulses of the id.
by Jordan of Boise on Jan 23, 2008 12:02 AM PST up reply actions
So we learned from our trip to
I agree with humor being a way to deal with stress. It's how we all handle being Mariners fans.
Is this appropriate?
1. "I read he died in his own place, but if he was in the Olsen Twins apartment, that makes it even stranger/funnier."
I agree with the stranger part. I'm not sure why his death, in and of itself, would be funny at all.
2. "He finally found a way to quit Jake Gyllenhall... Too soon?" (And various comments that immediately preceded it.)
First of all, I think 99% of the time that's a rhetorical question, and everyone knows it's too soon. The phrase sounds like a cutesy cover of the fact that the 'joke' is inappropriate.
Secondly, it sounds as though he's being mocked for homosexuality. Most of you realize he wasn't gay, and it was just a movie role. So why are all the jokes about this role? Because it's easy I guess, and/or because you find something innately funny about homosexuality. Neither attitude do I understand.
3. "Sacred cows are the kiss of death. The second you decide that something is off limits, then every joke you've ever made is offensive."
With all respect for Mr. Parker, that sounds like a very convenient cop-out. Slippery-slope arguments almost never hold up. There's a line, and the vast majority of us know when it's been crossed ("too soon?"). I think we all know how we can avoid hurting most people's feelings. If you're not interested in making that effort, because you have this very easy joke to make, I don't agree with that.
4. "That said... joking is, in a way, a manner of dealing with tragic news.... It's a shame, but let's not take what happened too personal."
There are a lot of other ways to deal with tragedy without offending anyone. And my understanding is that most of the people making jokes were unaffected by Ledger's death, so why the need for jokes? And the last sentence is just wrong, as though no one should feel differently than you, and no one should be bothered by jokes at the expense of someone who died so recently.
5. "150,000+ people die every single day. If you want to take them all seriously you'll go mental."
Uh, no you won't. I think we can all get by without making jokes about someone's death, and no one will end up in an asylum. There are plenty of things to laugh at in this world. We can afford to be selective. And if you think someone dying is a good opportunity to make some jokes at his expense, I think it would be better if you shared that joke with a controlled audience - not the internet.
6. "To me though, his death is no more important that any other death that happened yesterday." I'd prefer you didn't make jokes about anyone who died yesterday.
7. "It is quite tragic considering that he would be willing to throw his life away with drugs... people who die from overdose do not deserve my sorrow (if that really is the case)."
Well, as you point out, you don't know if he died from an overdose. I'm assuming you mean intentional overdose, and that you'll see it as a tragedy if it turns out to be a bad mix of prescriptions or accidental. I would think the lack of info would be all the more reason to hold off.
Let me say, these comments aren't intended personally - I didn't really note the authors of the various comments I quoted. I guess the easy response to all my bitching is that I didn't have to read it, and maybe there's some validity to that. But I didn't know what it was until I read it.
Personally, Ledger's death hasn't really affected me emotionally. I thought it was sad, I guess, him being a father and all. I just thought this thread was a little crass. I'll shut up now.
by The Alaskan on Jan 24, 2008 11:46 AM PST reply actions
I'm cool with that.
So then stop reading it
So don't post it. How is that difficult?
Isn't once enough? Or is there some quota that needs to be met before being offended is valid?
by The Alaskan on Jan 24, 2008 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
Because *I* don't find it offensive
It's as simple as that. That's what freedom is.
God Bless America
I totally agree - I'm not forced to read it. I chose to read it. And I'm glad I read it, because now we can have this lively conversation.
by The Alaskan on Jan 24, 2008 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
You can make a choice not to read it
Different people have different standards
"I guess the easy response to all my bitching is that I didn't have to read it, and maybe there's some validity to that."
There's a tremendous amount of validity to that. Please don't take this personally, but once you realized what was happening, and that it didn't sit well with you for any reason, maybe it was time to stop reading the thread.
If you've spent any amount of time around here, you'd know that the bar for what this site deems offensive and will not talk/joke about is pretty danged low; in the last two months, I've made several jokes inferring that my own mother was a prostitute (which, just for the record, she was not). And I'm just one poster. Whether that level of discourse is proper or not is not really the question; the reality is that it happens, it's accepted by a lot of posters and ignored by countless others, and it's been happening long enough that it shouldn't be a surprise when it happens.
I guess what I'm getting at is, I'm sorry if you were offended or taken aback by some of the comments made - they were indeed crass, and tasteless. And it's obvious that you have issues with some of the responses, and that's valid - but maybe next time, skip the thread entirely?
You make a good argument
Like I said (I think), I wasn't really offended myself. I guess I'm "fighting someone else's battles," if you could even call it fighting. I just think it's a little sad that this kind of thing is being said in such a public forum. If it was you and your buddies, I would see it differently. And maybe that's the way I should see it, but it's hard when just anyone can walk in on your conversation.
Anyway, I would hate to change things here. You guys have a great thing going, being able to discuss things freely. I just think that free discussion can be done without jokes at someone's expense. I may very well be wrong about that, though I don't see how.
by The Alaskan on Jan 24, 2008 12:47 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure it's an issue
If it was you and your buddies, I would see it differently.
I think that's how a lot of us see this site, really, which may be why this sort of thing runs rampant - the "regulars" here have all posted so long that it seems to be like a group of good friends in the "real world", sitting around drinking beer and busting each other's balls a lot.
And, just like in the real world, sometimes people will stumble into the insanity, and be shocked by what they hear; there's really no way to mitigate against that, because, again, it all comes down to what someone deems appropriate. I'm not a big fan of GTE, so I don't post in game threads much; problem solved.
That's very well put.
But again, I would hate to ruin a plaec where people can get together and just BS like friends do. So, like you said, maybe those random few just have to accept a little offense, in order to preserve the good.
by The Alaskan on Jan 24, 2008 1:02 PM PST up reply actions
The bus is more public, though
/*start looking back at own youth, unrealistically
(Of course, when I was a teenager, I was NEVER like that with my friends on the bus. NEVER.)
/*end fictional remembrance
Anyway. This is a website that is, while not closed, certainly not something people who don't at least have a cursory knowledge of the Mariner/baseball universe would just wander across - it's less like that bus than like the semi-secluded back room of the bar, which you won't know is even there unless you're looking for it.
If in more public, you mean more diverse
I'm sure you've always been a model citizen.
by The Alaskan on Jan 24, 2008 1:34 PM PST up reply actions
No, I just meant more public
I don't for one second presume that LL'ers all have similar opinions; my only presumption is that a lot of them don't offend easily, and that presumption comes from the familiarity of having spent a lot of time here.
Agreed
(Doesn't that seem like bad grammer, to say the same pronoun twice ('it') to describe two different nouns? Have I violated an actual grammatical law, or was it just poorly done?)
by The Alaskan on Jan 24, 2008 1:50 PM PST up reply actions
It's no worse
(I'm a very picky speller)
Hey now...
by PositivePaul on Jan 24, 2008 1:03 PM PST up reply actions
You're just asking for a Sermon.
I was hoping for a sea chanty, myself
"Yo Ho Yo Ho
OH SNAP!!!!!!
I kid, I kid. I like your mom. She's aces.
Good choice!
by yourfacemakesmewail on Jan 26, 2008 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
Hey now...
by PositivePaul on Jan 24, 2008 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
I'm absolutely dying to see what Brett
by Graham MacAree on Jan 24, 2008 12:50 PM PST up reply actions
If you think this thread is bad
http://www.digg.com/business_finance/Best_Buy_Cashes_in_on_Heath_Ledger_s_Death
Best Buy did a great display
by Jordan of Boise on Jan 24, 2008 4:53 PM PST up reply actions
I don't get it.
"Good riddance. Another hollywood fag dead."
Now THAT is worse.
by The Alaskan on Jan 24, 2008 5:05 PM PST up reply actions
If you think that's bad
And I mean at all.
I endorse a program
by Jeff Sullivan on Jan 24, 2008 5:23 PM PST up reply actions
In other news
---
What kind of shitty name is Vanderzanden? No wonder he's a rotting corpse!
Too soon?
Oh CRAP!
//recalls my über-hatred of this at first...
by PositivePaul on Jan 25, 2008 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
That was my grandfather!
Elmer. That's a good name. They don't really name kids Elmer anymore, do they?
by The Alaskan on Jan 25, 2008 1:23 PM PST up reply actions
That.
by PositivePaul on Jan 25, 2008 1:25 PM PST up reply actions
According to the Social Security Agency,
I'm naming my first son
What do you name your second son, then?
by The Alaskan on Jan 25, 2008 1:50 PM PST up reply actions
can't have a second son
One son + many daughters to marry over to rival kingdoms before eventually conquering them.
You've really thought this through, haven't you?
Damn
Oh, well.
by The Alaskan on Jan 25, 2008 2:03 PM PST up reply actions

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