Center field defense over the years

by iglew on Jan 19, 2008 2:02 PM PST

I'm not sure this really warrants its own diary, but I have a question and I don't see any other likely diary to put it in.

In the course of an unrelated discussion over on Athletics Nation, I happened to be thinking about Adam Jones and whether he'll be traded. And then I'm thinking that even though I understand both Jones and Ichiro are awesome, and I totally get why you'd want to hang on to both of them, it's kind of a waste to have two guys on the same team who can play good defense in CF, when so many other teams out there are resigned to picking the least bad of their corner outfielders to play in the middle. Surely there's better value to be had by trading one of them to another team that will make full use of the defense?

And then I started thinking, why the heck did you guys waste Ichiro in RF for so long, when statistically you know he's going to save far more runs playing in CF. But then I remembered ... well, Jeremy Reed, whatever other problems he had, was pretty good defensively. And so was Randy Winn. And Mike Cameron. And Junior when he was young and uninjured. And holy crap, have you guys ever had bad defense in center field?? Maybe I'm forgetting someone, but I can't think of any.

Or maybe I just have low standards. I root for the team that fills CF with guys like Nick Swisher, Eric Byrnes, and Terrence Long. They're decent players (well, maybe not T-Long...), but they're not exactly defensive whizzes. And that's not even counting this past season when injuries made us play something like 15 different guys in CF.

Are my standards of CF defense unreasonably low? Or are yours unreasonably high because you're spoiled? Maybe past-his-prime Randy Winn seemed lousy to you. Maybe you think Adam Jones' defense is no big deal.

So my question is: When was the last time that the Mariners had what you would consider sub-par defense in center field? I don't mean just the occasional sub when the starter needs a day off or is on the 15-day DL. I mean a time when your real center fielder isn't very good defensively.

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Jeremy Reed was only averageish...

We love Jones and you cannot have him.

by Matthew on Jan 19, 2008 2:27 PM PST 0 recs

Henry Cotto

1988. Although I don't recall him being horrid, really, either...

Ill Ligitamus Non Carberendum

by PositivePaul on Jan 19, 2008 2:46 PM PST 0 recs

Thinking back, it has been a good run

Ichiro
Reed (who was a good stop gap)
Cammy
Griffey

You have to go back to 87-88 and the Mike Kingery/Mickey Brantly/Darnell Coles days. But before that, Hendu had a decent reputation for defense.

by johnbai on Jan 19, 2008 2:57 PM PST 0 recs

Winn was a good LF

but a bad CF IMO. I was spoiled watching Cameron and anyone who followed him up was going to fall short. Kind of like anyone following Ichiro after he goes.

by Sec 108 on Jan 19, 2008 4:47 PM PST 0 recs

Hmm

I thought Winn seemed really uncomfortable with the routes in CF at first, but took to them pretty well over time. And his arm was, of course, horrible, though I suppose that's not too uncommon for center fielders.

At the time, I definitely felt like he was awful. Maybe we are spoiled.

by chaney on Jan 19, 2008 5:12 PM PST up 0 recs

Winn was tied for 3rd best CF per RZR in 2004

Chaney got it right -- he had a few misplays while adjusting to CF at the start of 2004, but displayed terrific range after that.

by G_ on Jan 20, 2008 9:52 PM PST up 0 recs

Willie Boom Boom

played half a season in center when Reed went down didn't he?

by Mere Tantalisers on Jan 19, 2008 5:36 PM PST 0 recs

35 starts in '06

http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bloomwi01.shtml

Bridging the gap between Reed and Ichiro I believe.

by chaney on Jan 19, 2008 6:23 PM PST up 0 recs

The reason Ichiro was in center so long...

He had the strongest throwing arm.

Seriously.

"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Jan 19, 2008 5:39 PM PST 0 recs

err ... RF

"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Jan 19, 2008 5:40 PM PST up 0 recs

I know Ichiro had the best arm

and I know he was a better RF than anyone else. (And yes, I still remember that amazing throw where Ichiro nailed Terrence Long moving from 1st to 3rd on a single by Ramon Hernandez.)

But the statheads have the numbers to prove that it's more important to have a good defensive CF than a good defensive RF. That's why moving Ichiro to CF makes sense, even if he's the better candidate for either position. (Otherwise it would make sense to move Ichiro back to RF and let Adam play CF.)

visiting A's fan (Shoreline resident)

by iglew on Jan 19, 2008 7:25 PM PST 0 recs

I'm pretty sure those

who fill out the lineup card would disagree.

And, yeah, maybe the M's would be better off with Ichiro in right, but it was a big deal to get Ichiro to move to center, they're not going to move him back unless he volunteers to.

"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Jan 19, 2008 8:04 PM PST up 0 recs

Weve seen good defense in center through the years

Starting with our first player ever, in fact. Ruppert Jones, still one of the most exciting players to watch in the Mariners history. And followed by a name you should remember from the Bay area, Dave Henderson. And, of course, the outstanding ones, Griffey, Cameron, and Ichiro. It's been by far the best-manned posititon for the Mariner's over their history.

by nathaniel dawson on Jan 19, 2008 7:37 PM PST 0 recs

Hiram Bocachica

..he had more than his fair share of web gems in his short stay in Seattle.

by CKel on Jan 19, 2008 9:01 PM PST 0 recs

YAY!

Something about him struck a good chord with me.

by Limerickx on Jan 19, 2008 10:49 PM PST up 0 recs

I really liked him as well

For me it might have been the fact that a AAAA player had a huge fan club

MLS Seattle

by Nick S on Jan 19, 2008 11:36 PM PST up 0 recs

Bocachica wow wow

Hiram was one of our 12 centerfielders in Oakland last year. (We had Doyle for a while, too.) I had really high hopes for him, but it didn't work out. He was among the best defensively, but he didn't hit at all.

visiting A's fan (Shoreline resident)

by iglew on Jan 20, 2008 2:22 PM PST up 0 recs