Jose Guillen = Mariner for Life

by PLU Tim on Aug 29, 2007 10:15 AM PDT

Looks like it may be 3 years. I hope that the 3rd one is an option year.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/329422_mside29.html

What do you guys think? I was dead set against this until a few games ago. Ichiro may be the face of the team, but Guillen and Beltre are the heart of this team so he needs to stay around for a while.

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Dodgy

I will withhold my final opinion until the full details are released, but this has potential disastrous contract written all over it.

by EnglishMariner on Aug 29, 2007 10:19 AM PDT reply actions

Interesting.

I was opposed to a three year deal, but not vehemently. I guess my reaction will largely depend on how much the contract is worth...

by sammy on Aug 29, 2007 10:21 AM PDT reply actions

My problem

Next year we have Sexson, Ibanez, Ichiro and Vidro under contract. John McLaren LOOOOOOVES his veterans who've been through wars.

Next up: Wlad and AJ traded for magic beans and a shitty junkballing lefthander!

by eponymous coward on Aug 29, 2007 10:26 AM PDT reply actions

I was on the fence

but now I approve of extending him.

He's a quality regular, so the money's gonna be large, $6-9 million per. Such is MLB's overpriced market, but it's not like we're paying for garbage.

by Gomez on Aug 29, 2007 10:28 AM PDT reply actions

hahahahahahahahaha

you think he's only going to get btw 6-9M a year?

by Matthew on Aug 29, 2007 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions

I'm all for it

We haven't brought in a player this fun to watch since Beltre. He deserves it.

by Corco on Aug 29, 2007 10:30 AM PDT reply actions

Three years? Too many.

But good for him.

"Every Halloween, the trees are filled with underwear. Every spring, the toilets explode."

by Thingray on Aug 29, 2007 10:33 AM PDT reply actions

I think Jose G

has been one of the better additions this year. His production has been pretty good. I feel bad for Wlad, though. He is all out of options this year, right? Is going to be dumped for trash or what?

by InSpokane on Aug 29, 2007 10:36 AM PDT reply actions

Not out of options

according to ussm

by Zack on Aug 29, 2007 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions

they had a team option on him

play that out, I don't get this at all

Don't listen to their lies, Bill! Look at the sparkly ERA! Sparkly sparkly! - McCovey Chronicles

by Trenchtown2 on Aug 29, 2007 10:38 AM PDT reply actions

Goodwill

He was grumbling about wanting an extension. He hasn't been able to settle in with a single team for most of his career. To just take out the option in that instance is the baseball equivalent of slapping the NFL franchise tag on a player. It'd be a slap in the face and would run the risk of pissing off his colleagues.

by Gomez on Aug 29, 2007 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions

Fine by me.

So long as the contract is reasonable.

by ThundaPC on Aug 29, 2007 10:43 AM PDT reply actions

Only way I'm against this..

1)Now that Guillen has his first multi-year contract, he completely implodes and turns into a clubhouse cancer

Wlad never gets a look for the M's. Gets traded for crap and goes on to an all-star-level career for another team.
Richie Sexson, Raul Ibanez and Jose Vidro are all still around for 2008. At least one of those three need to be traded. My bets are on Sexson, with Ibanez moved to first, and AJ in LF
It's three guaranteed years, and money's more than $9 million per (average).

Guillen has shown his arm is healthy. And he's shown that in spite of being a righty, Safeco's not a problem for him. He'll probably have around a .285/.355/.470 line this season which isn't terrible by any means. His range is a problem, and his arm, while still good, is still losing a few ticks.

He'll be 32-34 through the life of the contract (assuming a 3-year deal), and I'm not sure his decline will be that great over that timeframe. Not that there aren't better measurements, but 25 HRs and 100+ RBIs is nothing to complain about. I'd be much more concerned about his range disappearing than his bat, but you could stick him at DH after 2008 if that's an issue.

I'm not ecstatic about it, and there are probably waaaay better ways to construct your roster, but the M's have proven they're either unaware of those methods or don't agree with them. There are worse players they could give a three year contract to.

Who'm I kidding? BOOOOOOOOO RICHIE!!! FREE BROUUUUUUUSAAAARRRRDDD!!!!

by PositivePaul on Aug 29, 2007 10:43 AM PDT reply actions

He might suck that last year

but overall I'm glad he's coming back. Now if only we can figure out how to get Jones in there everyday next year.

"Players have two things to do. Play and keep their mouths shut." - Sparky Anderson

by Omerta on Aug 29, 2007 10:45 AM PDT reply actions

Cool!

PLU Tim I totally agree that Ichiro is the face of the team while Beltre and Guillen are the cornerstones. I like this signing. As far money goes. As we have seen good baseball players are expensive. Although the signing of Guillen probably means bye to Wlad in the offseason for some sort of pitching upgrade for the team.

by maxthedrummer on Aug 29, 2007 10:45 AM PDT reply actions

Wlad for 1b!

Raul and Guillen platoon in RF
Jones in Left
Vidro DH along with raul in guillen
I don't know what to do with Broussard or Sexson, but Sexson and -8 million for nothing would be fine

http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com

by LantermanC on Aug 29, 2007 10:48 AM PDT reply actions

Wlad still has a fourth option.

Barring trade, he's in Tacoma next year. Which is fine. Slot him in for 2009.

What's NOT fine would be to have Adam Jones on the bench next year. As a matter of roster management, I just think it's a smart idea to start rotating kids in every year or two. Jones is your very best bet to start among your prospects, so he should be given a long look next year, with lots of playing time.

by rtang on Aug 29, 2007 10:50 AM PDT reply actions

Keep in mind, folks

We don't know if WLAD IS going to be an All Star, or if he's nothing more than another Wily Mo Peña.

by Gomez on Aug 29, 2007 10:52 AM PDT reply actions

Wily Mo = .256/.312/.473

by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 29, 2007 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions

Yeah

He's a one tool player.

by Gomez on Aug 29, 2007 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions

It's not like he's a problem.

And with his contract situation, he's kind of historically unique.

by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 29, 2007 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions

No, he's not

My point is just that, as an unproven and admittedly limited commodity, we needn't blow his not being on the big league roster out of proportion.

by Gomez on Aug 29, 2007 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions

meh

as a part time player, in hitter friendly parks.

Not that he's a bad player but he's nothing more than a role player.

by etowncoug on Aug 29, 2007 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions

Yeah, but he's only 25

and got rushed to the Majors.

by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 29, 2007 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions

I honestly don't think

our organization will ever find that out...he'll never find the opportunity to prove himself to be an all-star or Wily Mo. WE WANT VETERANS!

I fucking hate you Mariners

by kentroyals5 on Aug 29, 2007 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions

Right

We also don't know if he's a Magglio Ordonez, and we won't in 2008.

Based on John McLarens completely homosexual mancrush for veterans, I'm not feeling optimistic that the roster logjam gets fixed. My nightmare goes something like Adam Jones blowing a knee out playing in the DR during winter ball and gets worse from there.

by eponymous coward on Aug 29, 2007 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions

cut Mac some slack

I've stated elsewhere that the situation McLaren inherited was not one that was ripe for change.

Hargrove left at the height of his success and Hargrove played his veterans every single day. Mac is going to need to sit some people down this offseason and explain how there role is going to change in the 2008 season. I think he will, but that's going to happen next year. Right now McLaren doesn't have a mandate to make a change.

by etowncoug on Aug 29, 2007 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions

Right.

So I should ignore the facts that McLaren uses crappy veterans in his bullpen in high-leverage situations, has stupid substitution patterns (Vidro at second or Bloomquist at third with groundballers on the mound, Broussard and Jones rotting on the bench in situations that really call for them to be used), and have faith that he will stop managing like a Special Olympics participant?

While you're at it, why don't you suggest that Bill Bavasi will rip off a mask Scooby-Doo style and turn out to be Billy Beane this offseason?

I've pretty much made my decision on this one. McLaren likes veterans and old-school baseball "by the book" management, and he's in an organization that is going to cater to his fallacies. We as fans should plan accordingly.

I think Jones has a shot of starting next year, but he's the kind of player who I could see struggling a bit and rotting on a bench when Vidro/Raul/etc. look good hitting.

by eponymous coward on Aug 29, 2007 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions

well

Getting bitch slapped by your division rivals in the middle of play off race, should be mandate enough. If what you are saying is true, which I don't think that it is, Mac needs to grow a pair.

by InSpokane on Aug 29, 2007 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions

There's a chronic temptation

across the blogosphere to only see the high end projections of our org's prospects.

Sure, he could be Magglio Ordoñez. And he could not.

This is not to say let's dump him for trash. It's just to say that, if we ever do deal prospects, it doesn't mean we just threw away an All Star. Unless the guy IS an actual MLB All Star, we have no idea if the guy in question is ever going to actualize his potential. Many prospects don't.

by Gomez on Aug 29, 2007 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions

Just like

Ryan Anderson, Rhett Johnson, and Chris Snelling.

by MfaninAlaska on Aug 29, 2007 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions

Of course...

..we don't know if Guillen's going to be equal to the value on HIS contract either, if you're going to assert "you can't assume prospects will be TEH AWESOME". Richie Sexson, Rich Aurilia, Jeff Cirillo, Carl Everett and Pokey Reese all say "Hi". Guillen's great this year, but he's a year removed from being pretty useless (.216/.276/.398).

Again, I don't object to Guillen per se- more the mindset he represents ("OH NOES WHAT IF A VETERAN WHO CONTRIBUTES LEAVES MUST SIGN HIM UNTIL HE'S DECREPIT"). We were able to find this guy for relatively inexpensive on the FA market last year, and tying him up longterm means we assume risk and block younger and cheaper players- and you might notice our farm system is flush with decent corner OFers/corner IF types who are pretty close to being ready for MLB jobs (Jones, Wlad, Clement- even Reed and Morse would be a tolerable platoon at a bit over replacement level if you really wanted to go there)... but we have bupkus in terms of arms who are ready for rotation spots who aren't complete replacement level junkballers. Wouldn't it be nice if we spent some cash on the rotation instead of having 43542 outfielders?

by eponymous coward on Aug 29, 2007 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions

And DMZ makes my point for me on USSM

Damn it.

by eponymous coward on Aug 29, 2007 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions

Okay

Who's out there among FA SPs, reasonably? Don't count Smoltz, because he just re-upped with the Braves.

Saving for a need that you can't reasonably expect to meet on the FA market isn't any smarter. Free agent pitchers generally don't live up to their price tag anyway.

by Gomez on Aug 29, 2007 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions

The FA market...

is not the only way to spend money on pitchers.

"Hey, Carl Pohlad! Want a boatload of prospects for your unhappy Venezuelan ace?"

by eponymous coward on Aug 29, 2007 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions

'Sure! I'll start the bidding at

Adam Jones, WLAD, Triunfel and Jeff Clement!'

by Gomez on Aug 29, 2007 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions

I'm not opposed to dealing him...

The problem is that Bill Bavasi's dealmaking history is at best, questionable (cough CarlosGuillencough RaffySorianocough). Can you point me to a reason why I should trust him to make a good deal when the old "well, Wlad's not a proven veteran, so here are some magic beans and a crappy junkballing lefthander we'll give you for him" is a fairly likely scenario?

by eponymous coward on Aug 29, 2007 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions

I wish he wasn't so crazy

I can see bad things happening if he starts to suck in a couple years.

by Zack on Aug 29, 2007 10:55 AM PDT reply actions

I like his crazy

by InSpokane on Aug 29, 2007 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions

He's been remarkably restrained this year

he seems to be tough playing smart player, and he seems to be a much bigger positive (character and ethics not just offense and throwing)

http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com

by LantermanC on Aug 29, 2007 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions

His crazy seems to be several years behind him

He was fine with the Nationals. Had a flare up with Wilkerson back in 2005, but nothing major, and left on good terms. I'd like to think he's matured a bit finally.

by esoteric on Aug 29, 2007 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions

I can see it now

Carlos Truinfel is ready to be a big league SS (I realize he might not stick at that position, but for sake of argument, LET IT BE!) in say 2012 and that would be the year we sign a Miguel Tejada to a 3-5 year deal to block him.

Thats how our team works.

I fucking hate you Mariners

by kentroyals5 on Aug 29, 2007 11:09 AM PDT reply actions

If Bavasi was a Billy Beane style hardass...

... he'd find a team that wanted Guillen on an extension during the offseason, make the trade, and actually get, oh, maybe some decent pitching back?

But this is the REAL world. Oh, well.

It's not that I object strenuously to Guillen per se- it's just that Guillen + all the other veterans gum up the roster for AJ/Wlad/Clement, and it's in line with Mariner philosophy that it's far better to extract all value out of a veteran free agent you signed and leave them as a desiccated lump on the roster (Sexson, Boone, Olerud) than to trade someone a year early and avoid paying for the dcline phase.

In truth, I'd be OK with an OF of Guillen/Ichiro/AJ. The problem is that I don't trust Bavasi and the front office to make the right decisions on everyone ELSE cluttering the roster or in the minors.

by eponymous coward on Aug 29, 2007 11:27 AM PDT reply actions

yeah I think that is where my reservations

are coming from.

Though Bavasi could make this work if they were willing to unload Raul this offseason. I doubt the organization has the will to do this, but they definately could do it.

by etowncoug on Aug 29, 2007 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions

I think Richie's gone.

AJ in left, Raul at first.

by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 29, 2007 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions

I'm unconvinced.

Yeah, I know, the alleged waiver claim, Bavasi loves Jones, etc.

To which I counter: Jose Vidro, Raffy Soriano, Horacio Ramirez, John Parrish, Rick White, Eduardo Perez, Carlos Guillen. Bavasi occasionally does it right, but his batting average is horrible, and we're talking about finessing a 14 million dollar no-hit 1B off the roster, something Billy Beane might have issues doing well.

Remember the Cirillo for Jarvis deal? Yeah.

by eponymous coward on Aug 29, 2007 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions

Richie has one season left.

It won't be hard to find someone willing to take a chance, and Bavasi is not unaware of this. He knows he needs to make room for AJ.

by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 29, 2007 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions

OK...

So when the Sexson for Zito deal comes through, how are you going to feel?

;)

by eponymous coward on Aug 29, 2007 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions

Suicided

by Jeff Sullivan on Aug 29, 2007 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions

Yeah.

Srsly.

If I'm Sabean, I'd happily flip Zito for a package of Sexson/Feierabend/Wlad. Boom, I get salary relief for 2009, fill some positions, and it's not like the Giants don't need to rebuild anyway.

by eponymous coward on Aug 29, 2007 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions

And Jeebus.

Just looked at the Giant roster. They have exactly zero regulars under the age of 32 in their everyday lineup.

They seriously need to purge the roster.

by eponymous coward on Aug 29, 2007 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions

Before I found out about Wlad's secret 2008

option, I was very much against this. Now I'm fine with it on one condition: That one of Ibanez,Sexson, or Vidro is traded in the offseason to make room for Jones full time in 2008.

If that happens, then by all means give the man his money. He's a good player and has quickly turned into one of our favorites. I'm not worried about blocking Wlad, because Ibanez's contract is up after next year anyways.

These pretzels....are making me thirsty!

by Goose on Aug 29, 2007 12:00 PM PDT reply actions

A bit of a conflict at USSM over this it seems

Dave=For Guillen extension
DMZ=Against Guillen extension

These pretzels....are making me thirsty!

by Goose on Aug 29, 2007 12:11 PM PDT reply actions

Advantage DMZ

Horacio Ramirez is God's gift to whoever the Mariners happen to be playing.

by SethGrandpa on Aug 29, 2007 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions

I'm fine w/guaranteeing 08 and 09

but 10 better be a team option

I still don't understand the need for this when you have him at a team option already for '08. Why Bavasi insists on doing things ahead of time with veterans bewilders me. It makes sense with the youngsters, but things like inking Raul to an extension the year before sticking him in LF full-time, the Willie extension a year before his final year, etc.

WTF Bill? Stop trying to keep everybody happy. Winning = happiness. Focus on that.

by Matthew on Aug 29, 2007 12:48 PM PDT reply actions

It depends

If he didn't have a no-trade clause, it would be cool. No one would likely want him, but hey, atleast we have some options then. I really like Guillen. I always thought he was a little bitch, but he has balls, and he seems reasonable enough. I like him. He's a decent player.

The biggest issue for me, after the cash for a guy who isn't spectacular, is the potential to block Wlad. I'm very high on Wlad, and I'd be upset to see him pissed away to hold onto an older fellow such as Guillen. We could have a guy with legitamate power in Wlad, and you don't block him for Guillen. This team still sucks, so we should principally be looking towards the future. Obviously, we're in the race this year, but maybe not next year. Or the year after.

Jones and Wlad in the outfield with Ichiro is something I want to see for the next half decade. DH Guillen, sure, but don't sit his ass out in RF while we've got a guy like Wlad waiting in the minors. It would be just like this organization to block the future so we can squeeze some more production out of an aging geriatric "veteran" while we just manage to miss the playoffs by a few games.

I smell 2003 all over again, and I am very disturbed. If we miss it this year, I think we need to douche the system out of all the old fuckers, and just rebuild with youth. I'd rather wait a few years to compete than get close but fall short like in 2002 and 2003. We should have done this right back in 2004.

Willie is ours, and you can't have him

by spittle8 on Aug 29, 2007 1:29 PM PDT reply actions