Free Adam Jones

by dlinsley on Jun 10, 2007 6:53 PM PDT Comment 53 comments

USSmariner and Prospectinsider have touched on the Adam Jones situation lately, and simply put, he needs to be playing for the Mariners right now.
After a 4-5 night tonight with 4 RBIs, AJ has a .960 OPS in the PCL, as a center fielder, playing half of his games at Tacoma.

Any suggestions on where he should play? I'm dreaming, I know, but imagine Ibanez at DH, Guillen in LF, AJ in Right, and Vidro as the 10th hitter on the roster.

Free Adam Jones!!

0 recs | Comment 53 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

He'd be better in left

Left field in Safeco is bigger and Guillen has a better arm. Bringing him up would upgrade the offense and the defense, but they'd need to find a place for Vidro on some other team (Minnesota?)

What do I look like, a guy who's not lazy?

by Rollo Tomasi on Jun 10, 2007 6:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't know if Guillen has a better arm.

But I agree with you anyways. It sure would be nice to have someone with range back in left field.

Felix, you magnificent bastard.

by Double06 on Jun 10, 2007 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think he'd play here

So I'd rather he stay down.

No, sir, they're saying Boo-vasi.

by Mariner John on Jun 10, 2007 7:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The Point

is that you bring him up to play.

I agree, it's time. Raul to DH, Vidro to the bench, Ellison to Tacoma, Jones to LF.

by tait644 on Jun 11, 2007 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The point is

I don't think he would get playing time here.

No, sir, they're saying Boo-vasi.

by Mariner John on Jun 11, 2007 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

But he's too good for AAA

He's destroying the league at 22. He needs a new challenge.

by dlinsley on Jun 10, 2007 7:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

So him being called up and rotting on the bench

is better than him playing everyday?

Sorry I don't see Hargrove benching Vidro or Ibanez for him.

No, sir, they're saying Boo-vasi.

by Mariner John on Jun 10, 2007 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh I'm so glad Hargrove is our manager...

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!

by SethGrandpa on Jun 10, 2007 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

21

He's 21. Won't be 22 for another month and a half. Baseballcube incorrectly labels any player with a birthday during the minor league season as the older age, so a lot of people make this mistake.

For it is the greatest truth of our age: information is not knowledge. -Caleb Carr

by helfgott on Jun 10, 2007 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

For all the numbers he is putting down there.....

he is striking out at a rate of a K per game which over a full season is in Adam Dunn territory, only he is doing this in AAA. I think he needs more time down there to hone his pitch recognition skills. If he were to be brought up, he will be eaten alive by vastly superior pitching he is bound to face in the AL unless he faces Texas or Tampa Bay every night.

by Susheel Ramasahayam on Jun 10, 2007 7:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

You wouldn't want Adam Dunn on this team?

by Dylan on Jun 10, 2007 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

All I'm saying is a little more time in AAA

to get better at recognizing pitches. Maybe Richie is a better comparison.

by Susheel Ramasahayam on Jun 10, 2007 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Power hitters rarely make the Big League transfer

Smoothly, so we might as well get those tough ABs sooner than later. We're doing him no favors keeping him down there, and if he surprises, we could really use the production.

But that's assuming he'd actually get playing time up here. We all know that won't happen barring an injury.

Felix, you magnificent bastard.

by Double06 on Jun 10, 2007 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jones is Not

anything close to Adam Dunn. Dunn's value comes in Homeruns and walks having drawn well over a 100 bases on balls in a few major league seasons.... Adam Jones doesn't draw walks at a rate even remotely close to that....

Jones is going to be good, but right now the M's are battling in a tight division for a playoff spot. Making a change just to get Adam Jones time to adjust ... well I just don't see it as the right time. If the M's fall back in the race then by all means bring him up... but right now they are 7 games over .500, everyone in the lineup is contributing... some more then others, I don't see a need to upset the applecart at this point in time just for Adam Jones' sake.

by MfaninAlaska on Jun 10, 2007 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

So are you saying

That replacing Ibanez in left with Jones, and replacing Vidro with Jones in the lineup would not make the team better both offensively and defensively?

I disagree.

by tait644 on Jun 11, 2007 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No I'm saying

bringing him up right now is silly.... yes he's ripping it up in AAA, but no he won't hit like that at this level... I would bet a ton of money on that, and I would venture to guess he'd end up the season with an OPS below what Vidro is putting up now. With his strikeout ratio in AAA and his lack of walks, I would venture to guess he'd be somewhere in Jeremy Reed territory with a bit less average, a bit less OPS but a little more Slg. He obviously still has holes in his offensive game that don't translate well to the majors and that would be exploited greatly at the MLB level.

by MfaninAlaska on Jun 11, 2007 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

Ok. I disagree, but ok...

by tait644 on Jun 11, 2007 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We already have one of those

His name's Richie Sexson.

by Gomez on Jun 10, 2007 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Except

with less contact, fewer home runs and fewer walks.

No, sir, they're saying Boo-vasi.

by Mariner John on Jun 10, 2007 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Less contact, eh?

100 walks and 190 K's say hi.

by Gomez on Jun 10, 2007 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was talking average

not % of balls in play. I guess it is only this season that Dunn has a higher average.

No, sir, they're saying Boo-vasi.

by Mariner John on Jun 10, 2007 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Adam Dunn at DH

That'd make me smile for weeks.

by Graham on Jun 10, 2007 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd love to get Dunn here.

I'd even give up Clement for him...

by tait644 on Jun 11, 2007 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually he has a .970 OPS

But who's counting?

Protect the enviroment, or I'll FUCKING KILL YOU! CAPTAAAAAIIIINNNN PLANNNNET! ~Ted Turner

by Goose on Jun 10, 2007 7:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

WE'RE GOING STREAKING!

by Garces on Jun 10, 2007 7:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Is that RED?

by Susheel Ramasahayam on Jun 10, 2007 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

HAHAHA!!

Dude, this needs to be one of the LL shirts. I wonder if Red would buy one?

Felix, you magnificent bastard.

by Double06 on Jun 10, 2007 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think there's already been a tee made for that

No, sir, they're saying Boo-vasi.

by Mariner John on Jun 10, 2007 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would love to see Adam Jones here

Honestly though with the M's playing well I don't see them rocking the boat.

The only way he comes up right now is if either Guillen or Ibanez is injured.

Otherwise you have to trade one of them and you know they won't trade Ibanez.

My parents didn't want to move to Florida, but they turned sixty, and that's the law.

by Ben in Va on Jun 10, 2007 7:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Won't or can't?

No, sir, they're saying Boo-vasi.

by Mariner John on Jun 10, 2007 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Probably both

I am sure they could get someone to bite on Ibanez though. Probably wouldn't net much of a return.

The problem with getting rid of Ibanez and replacing him with Adam Jones though is you take one of the few left handed bats out of the lineup and replace it with a rightie.

We are already right-handed heavy as it is. I would honetly rather see Jones take Guillens spot, excpet maybe put Jones in left, Ichiro in CF and Ibanez in right.

My parents didn't want to move to Florida, but they turned sixty, and that's the law.

by Ben in Va on Jun 10, 2007 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Won't

by SethGrandpa on Jun 10, 2007 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

While Adam Jones probably deserves a promotion

It must be noted that every game he played this weekend was in that mile high launchpad of Colorado Springs.

by Gomez on Jun 10, 2007 11:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Probably?

I don't think there is much else the kid can do.

And if you want to bring up the fact that he just played four games in Col. Springs, shouldn't you also acknowledge that he's played 31 games at Cheney?

That .970 OPS is legit, and he is better than every OF we have not named Ichiro.

He's ready.

by tait644 on Jun 11, 2007 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Against guys who don't belong in the big leagues

He's MLB ready, but don't blow it too far out of proportion.

by Gomez on Jun 11, 2007 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not

He really doesn't have anything left to prove. Just like Ryan Braun or Hunter Pence didn't.

Of course Jones isn't going to have a OPS of .970 in the bigs, but there's no reason why he shouldn't be with the M's, starting in LF.

None.

by tait644 on Jun 11, 2007 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um, because he's never played LF?

and the shift wouldn't be as easy since he's still working out the defensive kinks in CF?

Because then you have to punt Raul or Turbo and eat their multimillion dollar salaries?

You and I can agree that his bat is better than theirs', but there are other factors at play. If the decision were a slam dunk, even a behind-the-times org like the M's makes the move in a heartbeat.

by Gomez on Jun 11, 2007 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

All reports

say that Jones is MUCH, MUCH better in CF this year than last. I really don't believe the move to LF will hurt his development in the least. Besides, LF is a tougher position than RF in Safeco. And you don't move Ichiro from CF, and Guillen from RF, just to accomodate Jones. If they put Jones in LF, we might have the best defensive OF in the league.

And as far as punting Raul or Vidro, yes, I understand the idiot FO is going to hold their salaries against Jones, but is that really germane to this conversation? If we are talking about whether Adam Jones SHOULD be playing LF for the M's tomorrow, it's my opinion that the answer is a resounding YES!

by tait644 on Jun 11, 2007 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you look at the Rainier's stats...

Yes, Jones is hot and hit a ton for four games IN COLORADO SPRINGS. But that doesn't mean that he all of the sudden has nothing to learn in AAA. I'm agree with the people above that I'd like to see a little more patience. Even if someone got injured I could see an argument for Balentien or even Morse. They have both been hitting well this year as well and Balentien has significantly improved his BB/K ratios while still hitting for power. Not that steals are too important but I wouldn't have expected Jones to be 3 for 8 and Balentien to be 10 for 12.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=t_ibp&cid=529&stn=true&sid=t52 9

by rdave on Jun 11, 2007 5:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

More to Learn

Sure Jones could become more patient. But he's 21. And he's got a .970 OPS playing his home games in Cheney.

What he's done is taken the next step to be an impact bat in the minors. He crushes mistakes, hits the ball to all fields, handles both righties and lefties, etc. He really has nothing left to prove.

If he came up to the bigs, he would not be the only player who has patience issues. But it is clear that he is to the point in his development where he can learn to cut down his Ks in a major-league uniform, and still be an asset to the big league club.

by tait644 on Jun 11, 2007 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

.970 OPS is misleading

Jones tweaked his wrist on a sliding play in the first week of the season, and his power suffered for the first few weeks because of it. The only home run he hit in April was on opening day. Anyone think that's a true reflection of his talent level? I don't.

Since May 1, he's hit a ridiculous .340/.419/.694.

He's major league ready.

For it is the greatest truth of our age: information is not knowledge. -Caleb Carr

by helfgott on Jun 11, 2007 6:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Imperssive, but hardly ridiculous in the PCL

That said, yes, he is ready.

by Gomez on Jun 12, 2007 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um

If a 28 y/o AAAA journeyman 1B/DH with no defensive value whatsoever who scouts have written off for years put up Jones' post-May 1 line, people would start wondering if he should have gotten a chance after all.

Bucky Jacobsen hit .312/.422/.661 in Tacoma in '04, earned 160 major-league at-bats, and had Mariners fans everywhere penciling him in as the '05 starting DH before he was injured.

In a league full of 26-30 year old career minor league sluggers, there isn't anyone with a higher OPS than Jones post May 1 mark of 1.113.

For a 21y/o potentially plus center fielder playing half his games in the league's worst hitting environment to be hitting this well qualifies as ridiculous.

For it is the greatest truth of our age: information is not knowledge. -Caleb Carr

by helfgott on Jun 12, 2007 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Keep in mind the context

The team shit the bed in 2004 and was looking for ANYBODY in the minors who looked like they could produce.

And you ignored the central point: he put up those numbers in Albuquerque, Las Vegas, Colorado Springs. It's ridiculous like Todd Helton's prime in pre-humidor Colorado was ridiculous.

by Gomez on Jun 12, 2007 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He in this instance being Adam Jones in 5-6/2007

by Gomez on Jun 12, 2007 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Performance

Everyone in the PCL runs through those stadiums. Adam Jones has also played 23 games in Cheney since May 1. Ever been to Cheney? Ever seen that 28-foot high wall rising above the 420ft Center Field fence? It's an extreme pitchers' park. Not for the PCL, for any league.

We all know the PCL's a hitters' league and there are some extreme parks its players go through. You don't need to point that out. Within league context, Jones' performance isn't an everyday batting line. For one of the league's most athletic, most projectable and youngest position players to be hitting better than all of the league's journeymen is something special. The only two hitters who have put up comparable lines this year (in more friendly hitting environments) are already making an impact in the majors.

I'm not sure why you started an argument over semantics here, but if you're trying to say Jones' performance over the last month and a half is the kind of thing you see all the time in the PCL, you're wrong. He's the best hitter in a league with dozens of guys 8-9 years older than him, many of whom have significant major league experience.

For it is the greatest truth of our age: information is not knowledge. -Caleb Carr

by helfgott on Jun 13, 2007 7:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're exaggerating my point

I didn't say his performance was typical. I'm saying it's certainly not unprecedented, and has probably been replicated over time by players similar in ability and talent.

Quoting his numbers in a vacuum belies the reality of his ability, which is still a pretty good reality, but we're not talking about an other-worldly talent. We're talking a good MLB-ready player who is having a great year. Going beyond that is hyperbole.

by Gomez on Jun 13, 2007 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok

so let's put him in left, let Raul DH, and make Vidro the 10th man. You're telling me that's a bad idea?

by Bhamster on Jun 13, 2007 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay, performance

Also, Adam Jones incredible, otherworldly special season has him, as of the start of today, 6/13/07... 5th in the PCL in OPS. 5th.

Mitch Jones (LV): 1.099... 303/402/697
Nathan Haynes (SLK): 1.052... 391/466/586
Marlon Byrd (OKL): .984... 358/415/568
Val Pascucci (ALB): .980... 283/385/595
Adam Jones (TAC): .973... 317/392/581

I'll list the whole top ten for comparison purposes...

Andy Tracy (NO): .960... 300/407/553
Chip Ambres (NO): .949... 306/391/558
Jason Botts (OKL): .939... 320/423/515
Justin Leone (FRE): .938... 287/405/534
Mike Fontenot (IWA): .930... 340/385/545

Of course, half the guys on that list are now in the bigs. But if Adam Jones were having an unprecedented season... why does he have so much competition? Sure, some of the guys play their home games in these launchpads... so Adam's numbers being similar despite playing more games in an offense-depressive environment indicates he's a better hitter. But how much marginally better? Wouldn't all the hitters on that list be from the launchpad teams if it was just the park?

We see this every year, a few guys who have a pretty awesome season in the PCL. Not only do guys put up numbers like Adam's every year, there are 4 that are putting up better numbers RIGHT NOW and at least 9 with comparable numbers to his.

Also, half the guys on that list also play home games in offense-killing parks. Oklahoma's home park, AT&T Bricktown, has one of the lowest HR park factors in all of minor league baseball. New Orleans and its swampside humidity is also hard on power hitters. The hitters listed from those respective teams have also played 20-25 games in their respective home parks, and road games in a separate PCL conference where they don't get to see Albuquerque, Vegas, Colorado Springs as much as the offense-low environments like Memphis, Nashville and Round Rock. If anything, their numbers are probably more impressive than Jones', even if they're a little lower, since they put them up in much unfriendlier circumstances.

He is a great young kid, a 22 year old hitting as well as the league's best 25-29 year olds in the PCL. And in 3-5 years, he'll probably be a better player than any of these guys listed. But it's also the PCL and right now, he's not the only one in the league hitting as well as he is.

by Gomez on Jun 13, 2007 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jones

As I said in my first point, his season OPS is misleading. The first week of the season, he injured his wrist. Since May 1, he leads the PCL in OPS.

I never said his performance was unprecedented. I said he's been performing ridiculously well over the past month and a half. If you have a different standard for what you want to apply the term "ridiculous" to, good for you. I'm really, really not interested in continuing an argument that started over your quibble about 1 word even though you said nothing to disagree with my general point.

If you want the last word, it's yours.

For it is the greatest truth of our age: information is not knowledge. -Caleb Carr

by helfgott on Jun 13, 2007 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I find it funny

that you're accusing me for blowing up this discussion out of proportion... when you're the one who made it a point to initiate and extend this discussion.

You argued and argued that Jones is doing something special, when I've shown you that, in fact, what he's done hasn't just been done before but is also being done by several other peers.

Now that I've shown you're not correct, here you are trying to backtrack and say that that was never your point all along, while also trying to act like I've irrationally blown your points out of proportion and that I've been foolish to even discuss the matter in the first place. Don't think you're the first person to try that tactic with me.

I have no problem openly admitting when I'm wrong. I'd appreciate it if you and others would do the same without resorting to these tired internet tactics.

by Gomez on Jun 13, 2007 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pot

meet kettle.

by Bhamster on Jun 13, 2007 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, except...

This has nothing to do with you or our "argument," but Jesus God...Jones is not 22! He's 21! Multiple people have pointed this out in this very thread!

I'll never understand why I've seen this mistake about 500 times in the past year. On August Freaking 1st, he will turn 22, meaning of approximately 165 days of the minor league season, Jones will have been 21 for about 130 of them.

Again, 21. Not 22. 21. Adam Jones is 21.

Now the last word's yours :)

For it is the greatest truth of our age: information is not knowledge. -Caleb Carr

by helfgott on Jun 13, 2007 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs