Horacio Ramirez:

by Jeff on May 24, 2007 12:33 PM PDT in Regular News

Also one of the worst starting pitchers in Mariner history.

14 strikeouts and 18 walks so far in 38.2 innings, along with the lowest groundball rate of his career.

And he's all ours for a few years, at the low low price of one of the best relievers in baseball.

Time for his sorry ass to go away forever.

1:02pm Update: Ramirez yanked from game after two innings with what's probably an injury. We may be getting our wish.

1:17pm Update: Ho gone with "tightness in his left shoulder." Hopefully of the significant and incapacitating variety.

1:23pm Update: Sean White also needs to go away forever.

1:30pm Update: Carlos Garcia...well it might be easier to make a list of Mariners who *don't* need to go away forever.

0 recs | Comment 54 comments

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Can we try...

... hoping that Bavasi gets a role with another organisation. It'd be the only one in history stupid enough to trade someone to Seattle to get HoRam in exchange.

P3 W1 L2 (.333)

by MarkE on May 24, 2007 12:38 PM PDT 0 recs

Well

I guess I don't need to check the score then....

by Gomez on May 24, 2007 12:39 PM PDT 0 recs

It's vulgar, but it's how I feel:

Fuck you Ho!

"Behold the gaseous stench of Skeletor's breakfast burrito!"

by Thingray on May 24, 2007 12:40 PM PDT 0 recs

I know you're going to hate me for this.

Pitcher A: 4-0, 2.19
Pitcher B: 0-2, 13.17

A is Ho at home. B is Ho on the road.

Man.

(yeah, his peripherals still suck although they suck a LOT less at home than on the road as well, 1HR/7BB/9K in 24.2 innings at home vs. 2HR/9BB/5K in 13.2 innings on the road)

Marinerds - a different daily dose of baseblog.

by Deanna on May 24, 2007 12:59 PM PDT 0 recs

Soriano vs. Ho

Soriano 20.2inn 2.61 era

Ho 38.1inn 6.10 era, b4 today's game

great trade Bavasi...........

Shenanigans

by Brohan on May 24, 2007 1:02 PM PDT 0 recs

I guess Hargrove feels the same way

That's the shortest hook since he yanked ... um ... what's that other crappy pitcher's name?

Hangin' With The Nuss

by Nuss on May 24, 2007 1:03 PM PDT 0 recs

Player B?

by Matthew on May 24, 2007 1:10 PM PDT up 0 recs

Thank Fucking God.

Tommy John, Tommy John, Tommy John.

A guy can hope right?

by TyranT on May 24, 2007 1:10 PM PDT 0 recs

hope for rotator cuff tear

Tommy John surgery is too successful anymore.

by azruavatar on May 24, 2007 2:28 PM PDT up 0 recs

Hoping for injuries is bad karma

That said, don't forget the labrum.

by Gomez on May 24, 2007 2:33 PM PDT up 0 recs

Is it still bad karma

if we root for injuries to one of our own?

by Jeff on May 24, 2007 2:39 PM PDT up 0 recs

Horacio plays for us?

I thought he was employed by the Angels or something to ruin our playoff chances

by Matthew on May 24, 2007 2:42 PM PDT up 0 recs

No, that's Bavasi

If you look around the table and you can't tell who the sucker is, and then you see Bill Bavasi, it's him.

by Rollo Tomasi on May 24, 2007 2:43 PM PDT up 0 recs

Careful what you wish for.

Reefer Jaw is eligible to come off the DL in time for Ho's next start.

by eponymous coward on May 24, 2007 1:14 PM PDT 0 recs

Weaver's going to be a while.

Pray for Woods.

by Jeff on May 24, 2007 1:15 PM PDT up 0 recs

Lehr's 5-0 with a 2.44 ERA.

Campillo (2-4, 4.07) and Feierabend (2-2, 3.75) are also outpitching Woods (1-3, 6.17).

Since Jake Woods is basically HoRam's Caucasian cousin (lefty with completely pedestrian stuff), I think I will pray for the other guys, though Feierabend's really the only one I think has a shot of being > 5th starter fodder.

by eponymous coward on May 24, 2007 1:19 PM PDT up 0 recs

Woods > Ho

Feierabend isn't ready, and the organization probably doesn't even know Campillo or Lehr's first names. Woods and Weaver are the probable options.

by Jeff on May 24, 2007 1:21 PM PDT up 0 recs

Campillo's pitched here before...

... and Lehr was a pickup.

I dunno, 5-0 with a shiny ERA in Tacoma (even though the periperhals aren't THAT good) likely gets you the callup, especially when Woods is looking like a pile of suck.

And go look at HoRam and Woods in the minors. Tell me you can pick those guys apart. They're both in the John Halama class of "LHP with zero stuff who really belongs in garbage relief/spot starting/AAA". The difference is Woods hasn't had the sample size to start sucking yet like HoRam or Halama.

Lehr's got better control than both of them, and I'm fine with him as the callup (though he's also not anything more than a Baek/Franklin style 5th starter).

by eponymous coward on May 24, 2007 1:36 PM PDT up 0 recs

I'm not saying I wouldn't prefer Campillo/Lehr

I'm saying they're really, really unlikely. We can argue about ideal situations until we're blue in the face, but it's kind of pointless when they're entirely hypothetical.

As for Woods, he's already been up once this year, he's throwing strikes and missing bats in AAA, and the near 2/1 K/BB he put up in eight starts last season probably bought him another look. He's a fair upgrade over Ramirez.

by Jeff on May 24, 2007 1:46 PM PDT up 0 recs

How do you miss bats with a 6.17 ERA?

Maybe his peripherals are better than that (don't have minor league xFIPs), but 44 H in 35 IP means SOMEONE is hitting him, even if the balls are falling in.

Granted, he's not Parquetastic like HoRam was, but...

eh. I suppose you're right. I have no confidence that Woods represents much of an upgrade on HoRam, though.

by eponymous coward on May 24, 2007 1:52 PM PDT up 0 recs

Well, yeah.

But he does have 31 strikeouts in 33 innings, which tells me that a handful of those hits are just shoddy luck. Were Woods putting up the same numbers in the Majors, he'd have a 4.47 FIP.

by Jeff on May 24, 2007 1:55 PM PDT up 0 recs

Wow.

He's a fair upgrade over Ramirez.

If Jake Woods is better than anyone, then that person must really, really, really suck...

Hello, Richie? Stop sucking. kthxbye!

by PositivePaul on May 24, 2007 1:53 PM PDT up 0 recs

Well, that and.

There's a 40-man roster thing...

Which, of course, were Weaver to go away, as he should, or Ho-Ram to go on the 60-day DL, which we'll know soon, wouldn't be too difficult to deal with...

Hello, Richie? Stop sucking. kthxbye!

by PositivePaul on May 24, 2007 1:38 PM PDT up 0 recs

Easy...

Offer White back to the Braves; call up Huber when the Braves either take him or he gets claimed/clears waivers and goes down to Tacoma.

by eponymous coward on May 24, 2007 1:45 PM PDT up 0 recs

That's like asking me to pray for hepatitis

by Gomez on May 24, 2007 2:01 PM PDT up 0 recs

When the choice is between Hepatitis

and SuperAids, you have to.

If you look around the table and you can't tell who the sucker is, and then you see Bill Bavasi, it's him.

by Rollo Tomasi on May 24, 2007 2:09 PM PDT up 0 recs

I've been a Mariners fan for nearly twenty years..

but I have to say, this just isn't fun anymore.

It's one thing to be bad, it's another thing to be stupid, but it's something else entirely, something far worse, to be bad, stupid and with little hope for the future.

Ms in 201?

Field Gulls

by John Morgan on May 24, 2007 2:00 PM PDT 0 recs

I'm sick of all this "no hope" talk.

It's silly. We've got a massive economic base, an ace pitcher in his early twenties, a pair of middle infielders with good upside signed long-term, and several promising "up the middle" prospects. A moderately intelligent front office could build a solid team around all that. How could Bavasi possibly keep his job for another season?

If you look around the table and you can't tell who the sucker is, and then you see Bill Bavasi, it's him.

by Rollo Tomasi on May 24, 2007 2:08 PM PDT up 0 recs

Bet has very little upside, Triunfel is at least

3 years away. Sexson sucks and is royally expensive, Ichiro is gone, Johjima is old, I think we can agree Beltre isn't ever going to "break out", Washburn is mediocre and overpaid, we have almost no starting pitching behind Felix and quality starting pitching is almost impossible to attain through free agency, the Angels have a much bigger market and a ton more young talent...shoot I'm depressing myself. I've never been a Mariners fan because I expect them to win, but if we're talking near future, I think "no hope" is a pretty accurate summation.

Field Gulls

by John Morgan on May 24, 2007 2:22 PM PDT up 0 recs

Very little upside?

Yuni's got the skills to be the best defensive shortstop in the league.

Johjima could be 63 and as long as he kept putting up an .800+ OPS I wouldn't care. By the time he starts declining Clement should be ready to replace him.

Ichiro will stay if the higher-ups show a commitment to winning by canning Bavasi and Hargrove's sorry asses. If he leaves, Adam Jones should be ready to replace him.

Beltre doesn't need to "break out;" between his offense and his defense he was a very effective player last year and probably will wind up the same this year.

Washburn is a fine #3, we just need to find a decent #2.

It is very possible to obtain good starting pitching through trades and free agency, you just have to be smarter and/or luckier than Bill Bavasi to do it.

The Angels' prospects are overrated. Remember Dallas MacPherson?

If you look around the table and you can't tell who the sucker is, and then you see Bill Bavasi, it's him.

by Rollo Tomasi on May 24, 2007 2:32 PM PDT up 0 recs

Seriously.

I'm convinced that if Hargrove were to be canned soon, Ichiro's thoughts on staying would become much more clear (and, I suspect, much more clear that he'd like to stay in Seattle)...

Hello, Richie? Stop sucking. kthxbye!

by PositivePaul on May 24, 2007 2:37 PM PDT up 0 recs

I appreciate your optimism, I just don't share it.

Field Gulls

by John Morgan on May 24, 2007 2:38 PM PDT up 0 recs

I don't know if his statement

was so much hopeless for the future as tired of the incidences of boneheaded stupidity we're watching night after night. I can't blame him for that.

by Gomez on May 24, 2007 2:26 PM PDT up 0 recs

Little hope for the future?

What?

Protect the enviroment, or I'll FUCKING KILL YOU! CAPTAAAAAIIIINNNN PLANNNNET! ~Ted Turner

by Goose on May 24, 2007 2:17 PM PDT up 0 recs

I think he mean...

Little hope for the future as long as Bavasi is calling the shots & Hargrove is managing. That point is 100% accurate. We have the young talent, but those 2 have an amazing gift to #$%& it up.

by SethGrandpa on May 24, 2007 2:20 PM PDT up 0 recs

"tightness in his left shoulder"

Please be the labrum. When I tore mine it felt tight with a nasty sting when I lifted my arm over my head.

by InSpokane on May 24, 2007 3:32 PM PDT 0 recs

Well there is no reason to think we cant win this

year. I mean it's baseball after all.

What was up with that rally monkey?

by apalach007 on May 24, 2007 4:27 PM PDT 0 recs

If he is injured, how long do you think

he's been injured for? Usually it seems like a pitcher's K/BB is a pretty good indicator of potential injury. If his shoulder has been messed up for a while his velocity would dip and his control would suck.

by Edgar for Pres on May 24, 2007 4:57 PM PDT 0 recs

Velocity? Control? Has he shown either one?

"Behold the gaseous stench of Skeletor's breakfast burrito!"

by Thingray on May 24, 2007 5:04 PM PDT up 0 recs

velocity yes, control not so much

shoulder injury -> loss of velocity, little loss of control

elbow injury -> loss of control, no loss in velocity

by Matthew on May 24, 2007 6:30 PM PDT up 0 recs

Both?

by Edgar for Pres on May 24, 2007 10:17 PM PDT up 0 recs

Bad pitcher.

by Jeff on May 24, 2007 10:20 PM PDT up 0 recs

well, based on his K/BB numbers

I would say his entire career

by Matthew on May 25, 2007 12:30 AM PDT up 0 recs

I don't know

basically all his stats are career worst this year besides HR/9.

by Edgar for Pres on May 25, 2007 12:44 AM PDT up 0 recs

Welcome to the AL.

by Jeff on May 25, 2007 8:18 AM PDT up 0 recs

Is the AL West really that much better?

I mean Jose Vidro isn't suffering (aka sucking more than before).

by Edgar for Pres on May 25, 2007 9:59 AM PDT up 0 recs

Yeah, the AL's a fair bit better.

Ramirez is discovering this.

by Jeff on May 25, 2007 10:32 AM PDT up 0 recs

Maybe i'm the last non-believer

in his suckitude. Its not because he's not bad, its probably because i realize that if he's good then we are much better.

by Edgar for Pres on May 25, 2007 10:43 AM PDT up 0 recs

you think?

He's currently slugging at essentially a career low mark, both SLG% and ISOp

by Matthew on May 26, 2007 11:35 PM PDT up 0 recs

OH FUCK!

The Mariners do have one pitcher who would be eligible to come off the disabled list if Ramirez has to go on. Jeff Weaver, who threw a bullpen session Tuesday and again Thursday, is eligible to come off the DL on Saturday, although it isn't clear that the Mariners want him to do that without pitching on an injury rehabilitation stint after he started the year 0-6 in six starts with a 14.32 ERA.

by Edgar for Pres on May 25, 2007 10:31 AM PDT 0 recs

Don't count on it.

by Jeff on May 25, 2007 10:33 AM PDT up 0 recs

I think it's likely

Weaver will never pitch for the Mariners again.

However, if Bill et al actually believe what they're saying, and they think Weaver really was injuried and can get better, we could well see him once or twice more.

by Llewdor on May 25, 2007 11:11 AM PDT up 0 recs

I dunno, dudes

For all this insider info and blogosphere belief that Weaver is a goner, nothing we've heard from the org or the media has defended that notion. I have to wonder, given their behavior pattern, if the M's management truly believes that he's just working back into shape, and has every intention of running him back out there as soon as they can.

Remember, buzz among the blogosphere was that Hargrove was gone after the 2006 season, and so many people were absolutely certain of that. And here he is to this day.

In other words, I would not be surprised to see Weaver take HoRam's next turn in the rotation. I won't like it, but I'm not about to believe it's not a possibility until I see them DL HoRam and call up Jake Woods (who BTW isn't all that better).

by Gomez on May 25, 2007 11:20 AM PDT up 0 recs