4/25: Open Game Thread

Happy Washburn day?

Hopefully we actually play the game!

"Dammit monster, I ain't givin you no treefiddy!"

by Thingray on Apr 25, 2007 11:11 AM PDT 0 recs

Speaking of the DH

AL West "regular" DH's...

Piazza .260/.321/.377 .698
Vidro .286/.328/.381 .709
Hillenbrand .212/.226/.212 .438
Sosa .244/.306/.489 .795

Our DH is crappy, but he's got the highest BA, OBP and is second in slugging out of the regular DH's in the west....

So basically, our DH is crappy but not as crappy as everyone else's.....

by MfaninAlaska on Apr 25, 2007 11:14 AM PDT 0 recs

We might as well

Be the NL West

by Graham on Apr 25, 2007 11:22 AM PDT up 0 recs

How much nicer

would that production be in, say, the No. 2 hole with a real live No. 3 hitter? I mean, seriously, what if we had just gotten 85 percent of what Adrian Beltre was in his last year in LA?

This is why I say I'd trade Ichiro in a heartbeat for someone who actually could produce some runs for this team. You plug a legit No. 3 hitter in this lineup and it becomes WAY better by extension.

Hangin' With The Nuss

by Nuss on Apr 25, 2007 11:29 AM PDT up 0 recs

Ichiro RC/G:

8.4

In other words, no.

And Vidro in the two hole would still suck, because, well, those are terrible numbers for any spot in the lineup, let alone DH.

by Graham on Apr 25, 2007 11:33 AM PDT up 0 recs

Not sure where you got those numbers

but Ichiro's runs created this year is 11. Or, less than Aaron Hill, Bill Hall, Melvin Mora, Curtis Granderson, Khalil Greene, Chris Duncan, Hanley Ramirez and Shawn Green in 2007. (I could go on ...)

He's No. 100 on the active career list. He also does not have one single season in his career that is even close to ranking on the top 100 run creating years of all time.

Hangin' With The Nuss

by Nuss on Apr 25, 2007 12:01 PM PDT up 0 recs

Source:

THT

by Jeff on Apr 25, 2007 12:16 PM PDT up 0 recs

All of whom

Have played 6 more games than he has. Use rate stats.

by Graham on Apr 25, 2007 12:21 PM PDT up 0 recs

OK

So what is 8.4 a rate of? I'm confused.

By the way, it's still well behind elite, middle of the order producers.

Hangin' With The Nuss

by Nuss on Apr 25, 2007 12:37 PM PDT up 0 recs

Nevermind

Figured it out. Amazing how handy glossaries are.

Hangin' With The Nuss

by Nuss on Apr 25, 2007 12:38 PM PDT up 0 recs

An RC/G of 8.4 is crazy good.

For comparison, Jason Giambi's 06, in which he OPS'd .971 was good for a 9.0 RC/G.

Ichiro is also a sublimely good defender, which adds even more value. Basically he's the best offensive player on the team, and replacing his production with an elite bat wouldn't actually help us any due to the massive hit we take in defense pretty much cancelling out the modest increase in run production.

There is one fantastic, cheap way of making this lineup better. Observe:

Ichiro!
Beltre
Ibanez
Sexson
Guillen
Broussard
Johjima
Lopez
Betancourt

by Graham on Apr 25, 2007 12:48 PM PDT up 0 recs

His current rate

is well above his career average, though. If you're looking to last year for comparison, Giambi's 9.0 blows Ichiro's 6.5 out of the water. Seems like more than a modest increase to me. He also ranked 26th in AL last year in RC/G. The only two years he's had so far that are similar to this year in production are his rookie year and 262.

But I agree that the defensive element isn't something you necessarily can undervalue. It's just hard to quantify what kind of contribution that makes to the team. It's certainly got to be more now that he's playing CF.

Hangin' With The Nuss

by Nuss on Apr 25, 2007 1:06 PM PDT up 0 recs

I wasn't saying

That Ichiro is going to sustain this rate. However, he's the only guy hitting worth a damn in this lineup, and he's doing a phenomenal job of it. Calling to trade him for a guy who produces runs when he's the only one doing it seems pointless.

by Graham on Apr 25, 2007 2:34 PM PDT up 0 recs

Fair enough

Hangin' With The Nuss

by Nuss on Apr 25, 2007 3:23 PM PDT up 0 recs

Go find me some Gold Glovers playing CF

... who are hitting as well as Ichiro does, who can bat 3rd, who we could get for < 1 year of Ichiro, and I'll nominate you for GM of the century. (BTW, which awesome #3 hitter did the Braves get for Carlos Lee in 2006, who's not as good a player?)

Oh, and while I'm at it, don't forget to adjust whoever you get for playing half their games in a crappy park if we bring them to Safeco.

Seriously. Ichiro's not the problem here. The problem is using a craptastic DH and the waste of space Guillen's been in RF so far.

by eponymous coward on Apr 25, 2007 4:42 PM PDT up 0 recs

When did Carlos Lee

play for the Braves?

by Rollo Tomasi on Apr 25, 2007 6:29 PM PDT up 0 recs

while this isn't in defense of Vidro

I don't think swapping him out for Broussard immediately makes the offense better...

out of the regulars Vidro is
3rd in OBP..
he's 5th in Slg...
and 4th in OPS...

He may be a bad choice for DH, but right now he's not the big problem with this offense, plus he's really the only one on the team that regularly takes pitches.

by MfaninAlaska on Apr 25, 2007 1:11 PM PDT up 0 recs

Seriously

the discipline is the only reason I'm not calling for his head right now. Until the rest of the lineup gets their act together, I'm not ready to sit the one guy who knows what pitches he shouldn't swing at.

by Jeff on Apr 25, 2007 1:40 PM PDT up 0 recs

What makes you think

they'll ever get it together? These aren't players with some big long history of getting on base. Maybe they'll get a little luckier and hit a few more pitches, but swinging at pitches that aren't strikes isn't exactly something that magically gets better.

Hangin' With The Nuss

by Nuss on Apr 25, 2007 1:48 PM PDT up 0 recs

If we had a manager who stressed patience

and intelligence in at bats, then you could reasonably hope this situation would improve. However, I'm convinced nothing is going to make Beltre see the ball better. He is just guessing half the time he takes a swing. Watch his eyes. He might as well be blind.

by manyoso on Apr 25, 2007 1:53 PM PDT up 0 recs

Beltre's cracking me up this year

How many times this year has he checked his swing and then pointed for the 1st base ump to make the call?

Although I think that just supports the theory that he is just guessing what pitch is coming.

"Dammit monster, I ain't givin you no treefiddy!"

by Thingray on Apr 25, 2007 1:55 PM PDT up 0 recs

He does that all the time every year

It's one of the things that makes me like him so much.

by Graham on Apr 25, 2007 2:34 PM PDT up 0 recs

I guess I didn't notice before this year.

"Dammit monster, I ain't givin you no treefiddy!"

by Thingray on Apr 25, 2007 2:39 PM PDT up 0 recs

By "get it together"

I just mean "start hitting," not "start hitting with discipline." If, say, Guillen and Lopez were producing, we wouldn't need to rely on Vidro's eye so much.

by Jeff on Apr 25, 2007 2:11 PM PDT up 0 recs

"Until the rest of the lineup gets..."

Good luck waiting for that...

by manyoso on Apr 25, 2007 1:50 PM PDT up 0 recs

Jeff Pentland

Remember when he was the hitting coach of the Royals? They were a crappy bunch of hackers too.

Fire the Staypuft Hitting Coach.

by Gomez on Apr 25, 2007 1:51 PM PDT up 0 recs

My hatred of Vidro

Goes beyond the rational, I admit. I took that trade almost as badly as DMZ did.

by Graham on Apr 25, 2007 2:42 PM PDT up 0 recs

Unless

You physically assaulted your brother out of anger, you took it better than me.

The poster formerly known as KnightofKingK

by Robert on Apr 25, 2007 2:55 PM PDT up 0 recs

Yes.

Vidro has much to prove.

by Jeff on Apr 25, 2007 3:24 PM PDT up 0 recs

If it's Broussard you want

seems like the logical place for him to get some time would be in place of Guillen, right?

At least start platooning them or something, because Jose has not looked good.

by Zack on Apr 25, 2007 2:02 PM PDT up 0 recs

Broussard

Broussard is a hacker too.

by G_ on Apr 25, 2007 2:20 PM PDT up 0 recs

Broussard isn't a right fielder

Obviously, you're not a golfer.

by JI on Apr 25, 2007 2:37 PM PDT up 0 recs

He can be

by Edgar for Pres on Apr 25, 2007 2:47 PM PDT up 0 recs

And David Ortiz can be a SS

Doesn't mean it would work.

Obviously, you're not a golfer.

by JI on Apr 25, 2007 3:02 PM PDT up 0 recs

a little extreme there

don't you think, considering that Broussard has already played right field this year... granted he may not win a gold glove out there, be can easily be platooned if they choose to go that route.

by MfaninAlaska on Apr 25, 2007 3:11 PM PDT up 0 recs

Heh.

The offenses in this division are terrible, aren't they?

by Jeff on Apr 25, 2007 11:30 AM PDT up 0 recs

Not Sure terrible is appropriate

Putrid, disgusting, amateurish... those seem way more appropriate....

by MfaninAlaska on Apr 25, 2007 11:40 AM PDT up 0 recs

To Expand on the offenses

in a minimum of 10 games played, only 7 players have an OPS over .800... two each on LAA, Oak, Sea.. one for Texas....

by MfaninAlaska on Apr 25, 2007 11:45 AM PDT up 0 recs

Using Gross Production Average

(since it's handy and only one number), the four AL West teams rank 9th, 10th, 13th, and 14th. And Anaheim - the 9th-place team - has the lowest line drive rate in baseball.

by Jeff on Apr 25, 2007 11:51 AM PDT up 0 recs

Uh-ohs

John Mabry just homered. Corco may die of glee.

by Graham on Apr 25, 2007 11:31 AM PDT 0 recs

That John Mabry

He's the shit, man.

by I'm NOT Corco on Apr 25, 2007 6:41 PM PDT up 0 recs

J-Rod vs. Cupcakes again :)

Yaaaaay!

Marinerds - a different daily dose of baseblog.

by Deanna on Apr 25, 2007 11:51 AM PDT 0 recs

are you responsible for

the Philly count down to 10,000?

by Mere Tantalisers on Apr 25, 2007 12:51 PM PDT up 0 recs

Maybe

I sat through what felt like 10,000 losses during the late 1980's in Philly. It's all my fault.

Marinerds - a different daily dose of baseblog.

by Deanna on Apr 25, 2007 2:53 PM PDT up 0 recs

Oh man, I get to miss this

/fakes sadness

by Gomez on Apr 25, 2007 11:53 AM PDT 0 recs

At least

Bavasi didn't make a trade for Mark Prior in the off-season... just had shoulder surgery today and will miss the entire 2007 season... how quickly he's gone from on top to an after thought... same with Kerry Wood.

by MfaninAlaska on Apr 25, 2007 1:54 PM PDT 0 recs

Yep

And just like clockwork, Dontrelle Willis' career hit the dirt after a couple years just like every one sai- wait.

by Gomez on Apr 25, 2007 2:08 PM PDT up 0 recs

and remember the 05-06 off-season

where the rumors of Jeremy Reed for Bronson Arroyo were going around and 90% didn't want anything to do with Arroyo.....

wouldn't he look better in the rotation right now than most everyone else we're trotting out there????

by MfaninAlaska on Apr 25, 2007 2:11 PM PDT up 0 recs

Not necessarily...

He'd've found a way to completely suck pitching for Seattle. Seattle seems to be cursed that way. I mean, we sorta expected a lot of these recent acquisitions to suck. But did we really expect them to suck so bad (hello Spiezio, g'day Aurilia, etc...)???

Pray for Felix. Pray for the M's!

by PositivePaul on Apr 25, 2007 2:14 PM PDT up 0 recs

Remember when jeremy reed...

was one of our hottest trading commodities? ahh, good times. people (me included) were seeing rumors of Reed for Papelbon, but Bavasi turned down Epstein, because we wanted Lester or both. HAHHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHA

by manyoso on Apr 25, 2007 2:25 PM PDT up 0 recs

Not exactly

I believe Bavasi was angling for Palpebon or Lester. Epstein, however, was all about either shipping Clement or Arroyo out of Baw-stahn. So that wasn't going to go anywhere...

(Although, yeah, in hindsight, who wouldn't have done an Arroyo trade, eh?)

I know what you mean about Reed's trade value decline, though. Talk about a freefall...

by ebbnflow on Apr 25, 2007 4:03 PM PDT up 0 recs

That's how I remember it, too.

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

by Phildopip on Apr 25, 2007 4:12 PM PDT up 0 recs

Yes

Smooth move, Bill, though that's hindsight: who would've known that we'd have to move Ichiro to CF because Reed couldn't stay healthy nor hit.

by Gomez on Apr 25, 2007 2:28 PM PDT up 0 recs

Lesson learned:

When a prospect doesn't have much power, one should always be skeptical that his BB/K will remain stable in the upper levels.

by Jeff on Apr 25, 2007 3:24 PM PDT up 0 recs

So why do we have a team full of hacker?

Is it just how the pieces fell together or has the org really been after these type of hitters? Maybe an anti-Beane backlash?

by Edgar for Pres on Apr 25, 2007 2:32 PM PDT 0 recs

because

Contrary to popular belief Ichiro is the team leader and we all know that he firmly believes in attacking the pitchers, so he's leading the team by example!

I've wanted to use that one for a while now, but didn't want to cause a stir cause its all done in jest......

by MfaninAlaska on Apr 25, 2007 2:37 PM PDT up 0 recs

Bavasi mistakenly believed

that he was hiring a team full of computer experts that would crack statistics in their spare time and come up with the most sabermetrically sound approach for attacking other teams... but he didn't realize that his request for 'hackers' was misinterpreted.

by Gomez on Apr 25, 2007 2:45 PM PDT up 0 recs

Organizational philosophy.

The people running this team are aggressive in every sense of the word, and it's reflected by both the rosters and minor league promotions.

by Jeff on Apr 25, 2007 3:23 PM PDT up 0 recs

My fantasy team:

Felix: 15 Day DL
Troy Glaus: 15 Day DL
Ben Sheets: Pulled in the 3rd for a groin pull
Iwamura: 15 Day DL
Jason Jennings: 15 Day DL

ugh

by Garces on Apr 25, 2007 2:54 PM PDT 0 recs

LOL

Hey, at least you didn't burn your 1st round pick on Chris Carpenter in all three of your leagues.

...

by Gomez on Apr 25, 2007 3:17 PM PDT up 0 recs

I'm with you, brother

Adam LaRoche is hitting under .100, by the way! Wooo!

by Garces on Apr 25, 2007 3:22 PM PDT up 0 recs

My DL: Carpenter, Schmidt, BJ Ryan,

Harden, and Kenny Rogers.

Not to mention that Mariano Rivera has zero saves on the year.

sigh.

by Katal LM on Apr 25, 2007 3:52 PM PDT up 0 recs

heh

Yeah - I've got injured pitchers strewn across my two teams. Felix. Carpenter. Schmidt. Mussina. Dotel. Gagne.

Still ~barely~ hanging onto first in both leagues by my fingernails, though due to insane early offensive performances. Thank you ARod, Reyes, Kinsler and Francouer(!)

by ebbnflow on Apr 25, 2007 4:08 PM PDT up 0 recs

how the hell

do you have ARod AND Reyes?

by Katal LM on Apr 25, 2007 5:36 PM PDT up 0 recs

I wish...

Actually, I have them on two separate teams. Reyes I grabbed with the fourth pick in the first round for league #1, and ARod fell to me at #9(!) in the draft for league #2. Needless to say, I'm happy with those choices!

Anyway, I'm seriously running a Kingdome-era type team in both leagues: with Felix, Carpenter, and Moose out in one league and Moose, Schmidt, and now Sheets (apparently) having health issues in the other, I'm having to suffer along with Bedard and Burnett and their early season implosions... Offense (McCann, Tex, Reyes, Kinsler, Aramis, Abreu, Rios, Markakis, Francouer, Bay, and Thome for team #1 and McCann, Morneau, Hanley, O-Dawg, ARod, Beltran, Dunn, Alou, and Cuddyer for team #2) and second/third tier closers have been my saviors thus far.

Definitely sweating it this year, though. I've never actually finished anywhere but first in a fantasy baseball league, so there's more than a little pressure, there... :/

by ebbnflow on Apr 25, 2007 11:49 PM PDT up 0 recs

All hail Kinsler.

Sadly, my entire team is having hamstring issues. The pitchers are fine, though. I have Cole Hamels and Johan Santana, and I'm already leading the rest of the league in strikeouts by a margin of around 70.

Marinerds - a different daily dose of baseblog.

by Deanna on Apr 25, 2007 5:42 PM PDT up 0 recs

Holy coincidence.

And just as I'm typing that, Kinsler goes and hits a 3-run homer.

I love that guy.

Marinerds - a different daily dose of baseblog.

by Deanna on Apr 25, 2007 5:44 PM PDT up 0 recs

Love?

Hm. Yeaaaaaah...so that tingling I experience when he pulls yet another pitch over the left field wall? I'd say that that's a close approximation of what I'd be feeling at that very moment...

by ebbnflow on Apr 25, 2007 11:53 PM PDT up 0 recs

The A's are going to kick ass tonight

and break their foot doing so.

;_;

Die Angels Die!
Visting A's fan.

by Zonis on Apr 25, 2007 3:08 PM PDT 0 recs

Your main concern

should be whether or not you have to forfeit because you can't field a complete team.

by Rollo Tomasi on Apr 25, 2007 3:35 PM PDT up 0 recs

Isn't that our concern too?

We have only 1 major league pitcher in our rotation.

by Ben in Va on Apr 25, 2007 4:20 PM PDT up 0 recs

Forget tesm - how about front office?

Given that the A's tend to rebuild their team as the season progresses and then run away with the division, we should send Grover some gifts and put Billy Beane's name on the card.

If we're lucky we'll get them both suspended for 3 years.

by Llewdor on Apr 25, 2007 4:43 PM PDT up 0 recs

I can see it now

Dear Mike and Bill,

It pains me so to watch you guys run that team into the ground, even if you are a divisional rival.
Here is a gift for you. If you smack the Angels around I will make it a lifetime supply.

Love Billy

by Ben in Va on Apr 25, 2007 4:51 PM PDT up 0 recs

Playoff hockey >>> Mariner baseball

Go Rangers!

by phil333 on Apr 25, 2007 4:27 PM PDT 0 recs

For this series

damn straight.

by Jeff on Apr 25, 2007 4:45 PM PDT up 0 recs

No

Mariner baseball>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Playoff Hockey. GO MARINERS!

Serenity Now!

by Coach Owens on Apr 25, 2007 4:46 PM PDT up 0 recs

Seriously?

Don't you know how bad hockey is for your health? This is not the kind of thing that should be spread on a baseball forum, what kind of role models are you guys? Hockey? You might as well be spreading pro-pre-marital sex propaganda.

by braek462 on Apr 25, 2007 5:28 PM PDT up 0 recs