25 Years, 25 M's
Thanks to this post on Viva El Birdos, and a disinclination to study for my poli sci exam, I decided to make the 25 year M's team.
The Rules:
I went through the last 25 years of Mets history - 1983 through 2006, inclusive -- and put together a team. A starter at each position. A backup catcher, middle infielder, and outfielder. An extra bat off the bench. A defensive replacement-type. Five starters, 1 closer, and five relievers.
Easy? Sure, except:
* I took only one player per year.
* Once I used a player, he couldn't be used again (e.g. only one Dwight Gooden)
* The player really needed to have the position he's in -- so I couldn't put Todd Hundley as a backup catcher or use John Olerud off the bench.
I went with 9 starters, a 4 man bench (C, IF, OF, Util), 5 SP, and 7 RP (Lou would've wanted it that way). The 25 years cover 1982-2006.
Leading off for the 1982-2006 M's:
1. RF Ichiro!, 2004 .372/.414/.455 262 hits. Best thing about an Mariners team that lost the most games of any M's since 1983 ridiculously. Edgar deserved better than Rich Aurilia and Scot Spiezio.
Batting second...
2. 3B Edgar Martinez, 1992 .343/.404/.544 Why is Edgar at 3B? Because otherwise it's Mike Blowers or Jim Presley. Edgar's first batting title.
Batting third...
3. SS Alex Rodriguez, 2000 .316/.420/.606 I've made my peace with the best player any of us will ever see. This was his best season at SS (park adjusted), and best overall until 2005.
In the cleanup spot...
4. CF Ken Griffey Jr., 1994 .323/.402/.674 Highest OPS of his career. Junior was on pace for 136 R, 203 H, 35 2B, 6 3B, 58 HR, 130 RBI, 16 SB, 81 BB. Stupid strike.
Batting 5-6-7...
- 2B Bret Boone, 2001 .331/.372/.578
- DH Ken Phelps, 1986 .247/.406/.526
- 1B Alvin Davis, 1989 .305/.424/.496
By OPS+, these are the best years by an M's player at each position (except for Edgar). Boone, whose career line before 2001 was .255/.312/.413, gets to represent the magical M's. (How he improved let's not go there.) Phelps is a pop culture reference and the best non-Edgar DH. 1989 is Mr. Mariner's best season (by OPS+).
Batting eighth...
8. C Kenji Johjima, 2006 .291/.332/.451 I'm sorry I didn't get Dan Wilson in. I never actually was that big a fan. Joh's rookie year is the best hitting season for a catcher for this 25 year period. Putting him in did cost me Putz's 2006, though. (See poll below)
Batting ninth...
9. LF Phil Bradley, 1985 .300/.365/.498 For those who don't know, Phil Bradley is the M's leader in LF games played. (Raul is 68 games behind him.) He is the only Mariner to start in LF three consecutive seasons. This was his only All-Star season.
Bench:
C Dave Valle, 1987 .256/.292/.435
OF Darren Bragg, 1996 .272/.376/.451
OF Ken Griffey, Sr., 1990 .377/.443/.519
Valle would hit 12 HR as a backup catcher. Bragg would be traded mid-season for Jamie Moyer and never hit as well again. The senior Griffey only had 77 AB for Seattle that season, but one of his three HR occur right before his son hit a home run. The only time a father-and-son have gone back-to-back came off California Angels starter Kirk McCaskill on Sept. 14, 1990. Field of Dreams came out the year before that. No, I don't cry when I watch that movie. Not at all.
Starting Rotation:
1. LHP Randy Johnson, 1997 20-4, 2.28 ERA, 213 IP, 77 BB, 291 K Lowest ERA in team history until Felix decides that's a record he'd like to have. In the AL, 2nd in Wins, 2nd in ERA, 2nd in K's, 2nd in Cy Young voting, all to Roger Clemens.
2. LHP Jamie Moyer, 1998 15-9, 3.53 ERA, 234.3 IP, 42 BB, 158 K First of Moyer's five great seasons with the M's (1998-1999, 2001-2003). 1998 may have fewer wins than 2001 or 2003, but it's Moyer's Seattle bests in IP, Ks, K/BB, and shutouts and it's all done in the Kingdome.
3. RHP Freddy Garcia, 1999 17-8, 4.07 ERA, 201.3 IP, 90 BB, 170 K The Chief's second best year in Seattle (after his 18-6, 3.05 ERA 2001 campaign). This year he finished second to Carlos Beltran in the Rookie of the Year voting. Imagine how good he'd have been if he lived during Prohibition...err...never mind that thought.
4. LHP Mark Langston, 1988 15-11, 3.34 ERA, 261.3 IP, 110 BB, By ERA this is Langston's best year as Mariner. You could take his 1987 campaign (19-13, 3.84 ERA) if you're picky and swap it with Valle's 1988 campaign. Langston would go on to be traded to Montreal for Randy Johnson and would later lose the 1995 playoff game to...Randy Johnson.
5. LHP Matt Young, 1983 11-15, 3.27 ERA, 203.7 IP, 79 BB, 130 K 24 year-old rookie pitcher was the best thing on the 60-102 Seattle Mariners. ERA+ of 131 is 8th best in team history. Young never had another All-Star season and only topped 200 IP two more times. In 1987, he was involved with a trade for Jesse Orosco. Orosco was 30 at the time. Orosco would pitch 16 more years. Young had just 6 years left.
Bullpen:
RHP Rafael Soriano, 2003 3-0, 1.53 ERA, 53 IP, 12 BB, 68 K
LHP Arthur Rhodes, 2002 10-4, 2.33 ERA, 69.7 IP, 13 BB, 81 K
RHP Jeff Nelson, 1995 7-3, 2.17 ERA, 78.7 IP, 27 BB, 96 K
RHP Mike Jackson, 1991 7-7, 3.25 ERA, 88.7 IP, 34 BB, 74 K
RHP Edwin Nunez, 1984 2-2, 3.09 ERA, 67.7 IP, 21 BB, 57 K
LHP Dennis Powell, 1993 0-0, 4.15 ERA, 47.7 IP, 24 BB, 32 K If you're wondering why Dennis Powell is on this list, see below.
UPDATE: Original list left off Mike Jackson 1991 and Edwin Nunez 1984. My bad.
Closer:
RHP Bill Caudill, 1982 12-9, 26 SV, 2.35 ERA, 95.7 IP, 35 BB, 111 K
Only two relief pitchers in Mariners history have struck out 100 batters, Caudill in 1982 and Putz in 2006. After a disappointing 1983 (4.71 ERA, but 73 K/35BB in 72.7 IP), he was trade to Oakland for Dave Beard and Bob Kearney. Beard had an ERA of 5.80 in his one year in relief for the M's. Kearney caught 346 games for Seattle over the next four years hitting .231/.265/.348, good for an OPS+ of 67. Caudill would make an All-Star game with Oakland. Bill Bavasi, Billy Beane would like a word with you.
Alternative lineups:
Originally I had Goose Gossage, 1994 as one of the relievers just so you could tell everyone that the M's have had two deserving Hall-of-Famers be denied Cooperstown in case Edgar doesn't make it. This used Griffey's 1993 season, which has the highest OPS+ of any Mariner. Since OPS+ uses only seasonal park factors, and the park didn't change, I assume it's just a fluke. (Griffey 1993: 172 OPS+, Griffey 1994: 170 OPS+).
You may have noticed that there are only 24 players listed. The 25th Man needs no introduction:
IF Willie Bloomquist, 2005 .257/.283/.330 This team was built for WFB.
Go Mariners!
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33 comments
Comments
Things I learned
- Goose Gossage finished his career with the M's. At the age of 42, he was still good for an ERA+ of 117 in 1994.
- Before Johjima, the M's had not had a catcher hit league average (OPS+ = 100) since Bob Stinson who did it in 1977 and 1978.
- Don't do stuff like this on a weeknight.
by Trev on Apr 24, 2007 3:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't feel bad, I didn't know Gossage pitched
by Goose on Apr 24, 2007 4:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read his autobiography.
by Deanna on Apr 24, 2007 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's on my list, is it any good?
by Thingray on Apr 24, 2007 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah it is only 23...
by basebliman on Apr 24, 2007 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Late nights...
by Trev on Apr 24, 2007 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This list is sweet
Ha, nevermind, I didn't even see Moyer til just now.
Also, sad to see that Phelps is our best option at DH besides Edgar. The OBP is good, and slugging is acceptable, but average is horrendous. I wonder if a 3b would be better than that. Spiezio anyone?
Anyways, looks like a fun project. I'm curious though why was this on viva el birdos (for mets palyers)? Isn't that a Cards site?
by LantermanC on Apr 24, 2007 5:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A,lso for closer
by LantermanC on Apr 24, 2007 5:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Very cool
I know Dan Wilson isn't very popular on this site, but any all-time M's team has to have him at catcher. Even if the numbers don't agree. Does defense count in this at all?
by BaltimoreMarinersFan on Apr 24, 2007 6:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm inclined to agree
I never saw him in his prime, though, so this is just going with secondhand information.
by Graham on Apr 24, 2007 6:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Although...
by BaltimoreMarinersFan on Apr 24, 2007 6:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but...
Isn't that the year Wilson hit that grand slam?
by darrylzero on Apr 24, 2007 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was 1998
by Robert on Apr 24, 2007 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Erik Hanson
by Hoft on Apr 24, 2007 7:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Here is my suggestions
Switch Darren Bragg (1996) with Jay Buhner (1996).
Replace Garcia (1999) with Fleming (1992).
Replace Powell (1993) with Charleton (1993).
The only problem is that I need a reliever from 1999. Maybe Paniagua (1999).
by Edgar for Pres on Apr 24, 2007 8:06 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah
by Edgar for Pres on Apr 24, 2007 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My $0.02
C- Kenji Johjima '06: Far and away the best season by a Mariner catcher, even with the shaky defense.
1B- Alvin Davis '89:
2B- Bret Boone '01: I could have gone a couple ways with this. I could have used Boone's 2003 (which was nearly as good) and taken Freddy Garcia from the 2001 team, but that would have prevented me from using Moyer's 2003. It was a tough choice.
3B- Jim Presley '85: I damn near took Edgar, but... no. Presley was perfectly acceptable, but they let him stay three whole seasons (!)after he'd worn out his welcome.
SS- Alex Rodriguez '96: Duh.
LF- Phil Bradley '86: Jay Buhner really gets the shaft on this team, doesn't he?
CF- Junior '93: Far and away Junior's best complete season. It's amazing to me that he peaked at the age of 23.
RF- Ichiro '04
DH- Edgar '95
So the lineup goes:
Ichiro '04: .372/.414/.455
A- Rod '96: .358/.414/.631
Junior '93: .309/.408/.617
Edgar '95: .356/.479/.628
Boone '01: .331/.372/.578
A.D. '89: .305/.424/.496
Bradley '86: .310/.405/.445
Johjima '06: .291/.332/.451
Presley '85: .275/.324/.484
Bench:
Tom Lampkin '99, C: .291/.345/.495 (21 XHB!)
Mark McLemore '02 IF: .270/.380/.395
D. Ramos '83 IF: .283/.326/.362
Henry Cotto '91 OF: .305/.357/.463
Mickey Brntley '87 OF: .302/.344/.499
Rotation:
Randy Johnson '97: 20-4 2.28, 291K
Randy's best season? I don't think so, but it's so hard to choose.
Moyer '03: 21-7, 3.27
Hanson '90: 18-9, 3.24
Langston '84: 17-10, 3.40, 204K
Fleming '92: 17-10, 3.39
Bullpen:
Swift '90: 6-4, 2.39
Guardado '05: 2.72 ERA, 36 SV
Well, I had to take someone from that team. It was either him or Mike Morse. Not the best season by a Mariner closer by a long shot
Bobby Ayala '94: 2.78 ERA 18 SV, 76 in 56IP
I had to take someone from that team; plus, I hate everyone.
Mike Jackson '88 2.63 ERA 99 IP
Ed Vande Berg '82 2.37 ERA
Mike Timlin '98 2.95 ERA 19 SV
by JI on Apr 24, 2007 8:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Junior
by Hoft on Apr 24, 2007 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good call on Vandeberg
by marc w on Apr 24, 2007 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ayala
by bluemax on Apr 24, 2007 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
One good season...
by Trev on Apr 24, 2007 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The big question
Build the best rotation you can without using the '07 season. Then you have the chance to swap out one performance in the past for one performance this year. If the swap makes the team better, you win some money. If it doesn't, you lose some money.
Do you take Felix's 2007, despite the question marks? I say yes.
Also, I'd take Wilson's 1996 and Putz' 2006 and find another bench bat for Bragg. I think especially with a team this powerful, I'd go for defense at catcher. And there may be no real evidence he actually calls a better game, and being a good clubhouse guy might be overrated, but I think a little extra glue couldn't really hurt and pitchers always seemed to really like working with him. That's a bit sentimental, but I think it's worth it.
by darrylzero on Apr 24, 2007 9:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Um...
IMO Beltre::Presley or Blowers as Johjima::Wilson. Clearly the superior player.
Also, Edgar could have been the MVP in 2005: he clearly outplayed Mo Vaughn. So his season HAS to get squeezed in. We can do this by taking Beltre's 2006, which means we also take Edgar's 1995 at DH. I'll take superior defense at 3B and a monster DH year over Ken Phelps and Joh.
RF Ichiro!, 2004 .372/.414/.455
3B Adrian Beltre, 2006 .268/.328/.465
(hey, hitting second seems to work here...)
SS Alex Rodriguez, 2000 .316/.420/.606
CF Ken Griffey Jr., 1994 .323/.402/.674
DH Edgar Martinez, 1995 .356/.479/.628
2B Bret Boone, 2001 .331/.372/.578
1B Alvin Davis, 1989 .305/.424/.496
(I almost really wish I could get Olerud on the team, but while Ole's the better player, Davis is the better Mariner.)
C Dan Wilson, 1996, .285/.330/.444
LF Phil Bradley, 1986 .310/.405/.445
Bradley gets his 1986 instead of 1995 so I can put in a decent season for Phelps from the bench in 1985...
Bench:
C Dave Valle, 1987 .256/.292/.435
1B/DH Ken Phelps, 1985 .207/.343/.466
(The average sucks but the OPS+ is good...especially for from the bench in the mid-80's).
IF Willie Bloomquist, 2005 .257/.283/.330
OF Ken Griffey, Sr., 1990 .377/.443/.519
Rotation:
LHP Randy Johnson, 1997 20-4, 2.28 ERA, 213 IP, 77 BB, 291 K
LHP Mark Langston, 1988 15-11, 3.34 ERA, 261.3 IP, 110 BB,
RHP Freddy Garcia, 1999 17-8, 4.07 ERA, 201.3 IP, 90 BB, 170 K
LHP Jamie Moyer, 1998 15-9, 3.53 ERA, 234.3 IP, 42 BB, 158 K
LHP Dave Fleming, 1992 17-10, 3.39, 228.3 IP, 60 BB 112 K
Bullpen:
RHP Rafael Soriano, 2003 3-0, 1.53 ERA, 53 IP, 12 BB, 68 K
LHP Arthur Rhodes, 2002 10-4, 2.33 ERA, 69.7 IP, 13 BB, 81 K
RHP Jeff Nelson, 1995 7-3, 2.17 ERA, 78.7 IP, 27 BB, 96 K
RHP Bill Swift, 1991 1-2, 19 SV, 1.99 ERA, 90.3 IP, 26 BB, 48 K
RHP Bill Caudill, 1982 12-9, 26 SV, 2.35 ERA, 95.7 IP, 35 BB, 111 K
RHP Edwin Nunez, 1984, 2-2, 7 SV, 3.19 ERA, 67.7 IP, 57 K
LHP Norm! Charlton, 1993, 1-3, 18 SV, 2.34 ERA, 34.7 IP, 17 BB, 48 K
(OK, Norm got injured this year- but I got him on the team...instead of Dennis freakin' Powell. This gives me two lefties, too.)
I wish I could have gotten Buhner on the team... but oh well. I'm pretty happy to have squeezed some M's with some history onto the team (Wilson, Swift, Charlton). Oh, and the riches we have in RF (where Buhner got hosed) are countered by the rotten history at 3B (where good years = one by Blowers, a couple by Presley, and Beltre).
by eponymous coward on Apr 24, 2007 10:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Aw, crap
RHP Rafael Soriano, 2003 3-0, 1.53 ERA, 53 IP, 12 BB, 68 K
LHP Arthur Rhodes, 2002 10-4, 2.33 ERA, 69.7 IP, 13 BB, 81 K
RHP Bill Swift, 1991 1-2, 19 SV, 1.99 ERA, 90.3 IP, 26 BB, 48 K
RHP Bill Caudill, 1982 12-9, 26 SV, 2.35 ERA, 95.7 IP, 35 BB, 111 K
RHP Edwin Nunez, 1984, 2-2, 7 SV, 3.19 ERA, 67.7 IP, 57 K
LHP Norm! Charlton, 1993, 1-3, 18 SV, 2.34 ERA, 34.7 IP, 17 BB, 48 K
LHP Ed Vande Berg, 1983, 2-4, 5 SV, 3.36 ERA, 64.3 IP, 22 BB, 49 K
This DOES balance my 'pen out a bit more, though. Hate giving up Nellie, but I like having some 80's players represent.
by eponymous coward on Apr 24, 2007 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is pretty hard
by Edgar for Pres on Apr 24, 2007 3:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice job!
Anyways, here's the link:
by TheOtherJeff on Apr 24, 2007 7:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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