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Winter Meetings Open Thread - Tuesday

Wbc_029_tiny by Jeff Sullivan on in Seattle Mariners Regular News

So, Guillen's off to Kansas City for $36m over three years. Good thing we offered arbitration so we could get that draft pick.

My favorite time of year as a Mariners fan is the point in the offseason immediately before the team starts changing the roster. My *least* favorite time of year as a Mariners fan is the point in the offseason immediately after the team starts changing the roster. I don't know why I even bother watching games.

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Ellsbury got a new agent
...Scott Boras.

Crazy trade reporting coming out about what Boston is offering for Santana.  Evidently, someone things it'd be Lester, Ellsbury, Crisp, and  Lowrie.  Yes, it doesn't make sense to offer both Crisp and Ellsbury, and even offer Lowrie if Ellsbury and Lester are in the deal.

I fucking hate you Mariners

by kentroyals5 on Dec 4, 2007 12:32 AM PST reply actions  

Replace Ellsbury with Masterson
that's the package most people are talking about.

If Boston lands Johan Santana without having to give up one of Ellsbury/Buchholz, I'm not going to be thrilled.

by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 4, 2007 12:44 AM PST up reply actions  

If I'm the Twins
I wouldn't budge on the demands for someone bettery than Lester/Kennedy.  If you don't get what you want, go into the season with Johan, compete for the NL central this year, and either 1) get your two draft picks, or 2) hope that Johan signs a more reasonable extension, worried that he has to put his arm through another year before cashing in.  

by david h on Dec 4, 2007 12:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes
the Lester/Crisp package the Sox are trying to push is ridiculous. The Twins for some reason think more highly of Ellsbury than they do of Phil Hughes -- I'm hoping it's because of need and not evaluation ability.

If the Twins turn down Hughes/Cabrera/(insert midlevel prospect) and take Lester/Crisp/(anything not named Ellsbury or Buchholz), I'll be blown away. And confused. And kind of angry.

by Teej on Dec 4, 2007 1:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Seattle PI
Just threw out Silva's name as a guy we've shown interest in.

by Slica on Dec 4, 2007 1:33 AM PST reply actions  

I'm petrified
Don't do it Bill, whatever it is that your thinking...just do that exact opposite.  

Go with the chicken salad on Rye and a cup of tea instead of your usual tuna and toast with coffee.

LET WLAD BAT!!!!

by MFAN on Dec 4, 2007 1:57 AM PST reply actions  

Someone help me out
Had a debate with a friend tonight, and I want some opinions:

Can anyone please explain to my why Jeff Mathis is being talked about as if he were an actual prospect? Is it just because he's a catcher and they're hard to come by? Is he really good behind the plate? I know the Marlins are hard-up for a catcher, but really? Mathis?

I just don't understand why reporters covering the Cabrera negotiations are talking about Mathis like he's anywhere near the level of Kendrick or Adenhart.

I'm no expert, so this question is very serious: Am I missing something about Mathis?

by Teej on Dec 4, 2007 1:58 AM PST reply actions  

You're missing nothing
Mathis isn't that great.  There are two mitigating factors:
  1.  Marlins have no catching.  They have Miguel Olivo (career OPS+ 76) and Matt Treanor* (career OPS+ 74).  The catcher that BA lists as their "projected 2011 catcher" is Brett Hayes who at 23 just hit .234/.280/.326 in AA.
  2.  Catchers tend to develop late.  Jason Varitek (whose stats in the minors are worse than Mathis') wasn't a full time catcher till 27.  Mathis turns 25 in 2008 and has no service time (less than 1 year I believe).  He's more talented than anyone the Marlins have.
That said, whatever you think of Andy LaRoche or Howie Kendrick, the second player the Dodgers offer (I've seen Kemp/Kershaw/Hu) is far better than Mathis.

* -- whatever you want to say about Matt Treanor, he's married to Misty May, the volleyball player.

by Trev on Dec 4, 2007 5:42 AM PST up reply actions  

*pant*
Matt Treanor has already won at life.  Nothing MLB can say or do can take that away from him.

by NBarnes on Dec 4, 2007 7:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Wha?
she's heinous. She looks like a busted Sandra Bullock with a shotputter's body. But I hear she's really nice.

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 4, 2007 8:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Wow
I just google-imaged "Misty May," since I don't know who she is.  Your description is accurate, but I also learned there is at least one other Misty May out there.  She's a bit better looking, but seems a lot less wholesome.

by david h on Dec 4, 2007 8:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Apparently she slurps too.
Good for her.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 10:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Heh.
I just remembered the Misty May Ass Blog.  I wonder if it's still around...
"I restore a sense of childlike wonder to people's lives; you give them Zunes and Vista." -- Fake Steve Jobs to Borg employees

by PositivePaul on Dec 4, 2007 9:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah dude
I see hotter girls than that walking down the street
Washington Highways

by Corco on Dec 4, 2007 8:34 PM PST up reply actions  

And loopholes are loopholes
I'm currently observing Hawaiian Standard Time
Washington Highways

by Corco on Dec 4, 2007 8:55 PM PST up reply actions  

I know it's not my blog
but nobody came up with a valid disagreement with this, so I'd have to appeal to Jeff and see if that counts as closing a loophole.
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Dec 4, 2007 9:13 PM PST up reply actions  

And why would you do that?
I'm totally sober.

Also, the last two times I have been drunk I've stayed away from the blog

Washington Highways

by Corco on Dec 4, 2007 9:15 PM PST up reply actions  

It's a matter of principle
After all, who would we be if we didn't have principles?
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Dec 4, 2007 9:17 PM PST up reply actions  

That's what
Larry Craig's wife should have said when he said "honey, I'll be back in a minute, gotta run to the men's room".
Nice Guys Finish Third - Hopelessly lost, but makin' good time.

by pdb on Dec 4, 2007 9:26 PM PST up reply actions  

I think we'd get along really well in person.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 10:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Tribune says
"They need at least two starting pitchers and are looking hard for a veteran setup man in the bullpen - think Octavio Dotel."

Plus a nice quote from Bavasi on Dan Haren:

"You don't want to see Adam Jones kicking your ass for the next 10 years," he deadpanned.

If we trade 3 of the main 4 (Jones, Balentien, Morrow, Clement) for Eric Bedard, I will freak. The only combo of those 4 I would trade for Santana excludes Jones.

Oh man this whole thing is excruciating. Wanna upgrade the team? Rid of Sexson, and rid of Ibanez at least in LF. Nontender Ramirez. Stop being douchebags and being so open about Broussard and try to get a deal worked with TB for Jackson.

I love Sheets but not the injuries. Bedard would be cool but the lopsided asking price is ridiculous. Colon is not a bad idea. Screw Silva.

The remaining hangup with Kuroda is that two of his advisors want him in Southern Cal, where they happen to live. One of them is Mr. Hasegawa. Yup, that one.

by Slica on Dec 4, 2007 3:16 AM PST reply actions  

Guillen's draft pick
Guillen's a type B so we get one pick in the compensation round (really just the end of the 1st round).  The last pick of the first round last year was #64.  

In 2004, the 64th pick was Hunter Pence.  In 2002, it was Brian McCann.

by Trev on Dec 4, 2007 5:49 AM PST reply actions  

Whoops
I meant we would've gotten at least the 64th pick in the draft if we'd offered arbitration.

by Trev on Dec 4, 2007 5:50 AM PST up reply actions  

D-Rays Turn Down M's Offer for E-Jax
Proposed deal was Broussard for Jackson.

M's are also in the mix for Sheets, which would mean probably Sherrill and Clement would be heading to Milwaukee. When Sheets is on, he's great; however, he hasn't pitched a complete season in three years.

by JoeyJoJoJuniorShabadoo on Dec 4, 2007 8:06 AM PST reply actions  

Why would TB have any interest in that?
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Dec 4, 2007 8:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Maybe Bavasi Thought The Rays
Wanted Broussard to platoon with Gomes at DH.

Or maybe he wasn't thinking at all?

by JoeyJoJoJuniorShabadoo on Dec 4, 2007 8:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Did he counter with an offer
of Green for Carlos Pena?
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Dec 4, 2007 9:14 AM PST up reply actions  

No, but there is a rumor...
that they are thinking of adding Johnson to Brousard for Jackson.

by ppl4life on Dec 4, 2007 3:10 PM PST up reply actions  

The longer we go without major news
the better we are.

Jose Guillen comes off as a wasted opportunity, but if that's the worst thing done this offseason then it's not a big deal.

Mangini was out supplemental 1st round pick last year.  What makes you think they would pick anything different this time around?

I vote less is more this offseason.  Bavasi, please fail to get something done.

Go Fo Broke!

by eknpdx on Dec 4, 2007 8:41 AM PST reply actions  

Ben Sheets
Would be flippin' sweet.

by Garces on Dec 4, 2007 9:07 AM PST reply actions  

What Minnesota gets
might not matter...

The Marlins and Tigers are talking about a monster deal that would send Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis over to the Tigers for Andrew Miller, Cameron Maybin, and others.  Dave Dombrowski has always worked well with the Marlins, his former team.

Per Rosenthal.

by Garces on Dec 4, 2007 9:10 AM PST reply actions  

Huh.
That deal looks pretty good for the Marlins. Cabrera would most likely replace Inge at 3rd base. When you factor in defense (Inge >>>>>>>>>> Cabrera defensively) that this is an upgrade. Willis is not the same pitcher he used to be, and moving to the AL certainly won't help him. Add to the fact that Willis and Cabrera are under club control for only one more year, and Florida looks to have just fleeced Detroit.
I reject your reality and substitute my own!

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Dec 4, 2007 9:19 AM PST up reply actions  

What I meant to say
is that when you factor in defense, I'm not so sure that this is an upgrade.
I reject your reality and substitute my own!

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Dec 4, 2007 9:20 AM PST up reply actions  

For sure
Though Detroit's offensive production next season is going to be absurd.

by Garces on Dec 4, 2007 9:22 AM PST up reply actions  

not if they hold on to Caberea
which begs the question: if that goes down, shouldn't they put Guillen at third and Cabrera at first?
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Dec 4, 2007 9:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Interesting
The Mariners have expressed an interest in Mark Loretta, a baseabll source said. The Mariners met with Loretta's agent on Tuesday morning and said they'd like to sign him as a utility infielder, and will likely offer the veteran what the Rockies would offer, somewhere in the neighborhood of $2 million for one year. Loretta was offered arbitration by the Astros and could take a 50 percent pay cut if he signs with another team.

by tkballer22 on Dec 4, 2007 9:18 AM PST reply actions  

WHER WOULD WILLY PLAY?!?!?!?
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Dec 4, 2007 9:24 AM PST up reply actions  

At 3B
Once Beltre is traded for this offseason's version of HoRam.
P3 W1 L2 (.333)

by MarkE on Dec 4, 2007 11:42 AM PST up reply actions  

I've read
that he's said he would take a discount to sign with the Rockies, so I'm not sure offering the same as them is going to get him here.  Of course, maybe whoever wrote that had heard he'd take a discount to get out of Houston, and at the time the Rockies were the only team making an offer.

by david h on Dec 4, 2007 9:28 AM PST up reply actions  

More!
# One Reds official think the Giants almost have to trade Tim Lincecum to build an offensive core.  It seems the Mariners and Reds in particular are pushing for Lincecum.  The Ms could offer Adam Jones; the Reds have Jay Bruce, Joey Votto, and Josh Hamilton.  The Mariners could've had Lincecum with the fifth overall pick in 2006, but opted for Brandon Morrow instead.  The Reds could've had him too but went for Drew Stubbs.

# Baggarly talks of the rumored Richie Sexson for Ray Durham or Rich Aurilia swap, though Larry LaRue says it's bogus.

---

Aurilia!  Joy!

by Garces on Dec 4, 2007 9:46 AM PST reply actions  

It doesn't make much sense
but Lincecum and Cain rumors keeps floating around and the Ms just got linked to Lincecum.

by Matthew on Dec 4, 2007 9:47 AM PST reply actions  

Did you just respond to yourself?
And annoyed?
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 10:22 AM PST up reply actions  

inside joke
if something doesn't seem to make sense, it's either an LL inside joke or it's drunk Corco.

One of the two.  

by marc w on Dec 4, 2007 10:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Ah.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 10:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Sabean doesn't make sense
so....I'll keep hoping.

Odds of it are 10000:1, but hey.   Makes this week a bit better after the craptacular start.

by marc w on Dec 4, 2007 10:09 AM PST up reply actions  

Hm
Would Jones for Lincecum straight up happen? Likely something more like Jones + Lopez and a AAA pitcher of some sort. Yeah?

by okdan on Dec 4, 2007 10:02 AM PST reply actions  

At this point
I want no part of trading Jones. The second we do is the second Raul Ibanez becomes 100% the everyday LF for 2008. I want to cling to the hope that they get him out of there for as long as possible.

by Matthew on Dec 4, 2007 10:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Broussard
Why are the M's so keen to deal him?  Why does he have basically no value?  I thought he was a pretty good hitter.

by Bender on Dec 4, 2007 10:24 AM PST reply actions  

I think he just has no value to us.
And given the way we run the team, he won't.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 10:26 AM PST up reply actions  

He has no value
because we're expected to non-tender him next month and then another team can get him without giving up a player
Washington Highways

by Corco on Dec 4, 2007 10:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Can't play any position well
Hits well as a lefty but not vs LHPs.

Lots of these guys around, plus he'll cost like $4 mil next season if he's traded for.

by Gomez on Dec 4, 2007 10:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah
Take a look at his numbers over the last few years, and then take a look at the numbers of other 1B/DH regulars.  Being better than Sexson last year is about as impressive as being one of the 10 largest cities in Wyoming.  

by G_ on Dec 4, 2007 11:07 AM PST up reply actions  

First genuinely fun rumour I've heard
Dontrelle Willis AND Miguel Cabrera to Detroit for Andrew Miller AND Cameron Maybin.

Now that would be exciting.

by Llewdor on Dec 4, 2007 10:39 AM PST reply actions  

Detroit would need to give up a ton more
Miller and Maybin probably wouldn't cut it for Cabrera alone, much less paired with Willis.

by Matthew on Dec 4, 2007 10:47 AM PST up reply actions  

That rumor's
already being discredited.  They're now calling it "discussions" as opposed to "negotiations."

by Garces on Dec 4, 2007 10:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Right...
they are looking at that as a starting point for one or the other of Willis/Cabrera.

by ppl4life on Dec 4, 2007 3:14 PM PST up reply actions  

I wouldnt' mind
Adam Jones and Sexson and NO cash for Lincecum
http://seattlesportsmaniac.blogspot.com

by LantermanC on Dec 4, 2007 11:22 AM PST reply actions  

Am I the only guy
Who doesnt want to trade Adam Jones for just about anything, including Lincecum?

by Slica on Dec 4, 2007 11:50 AM PST reply actions  

Nope
We would have to get someone really, really good for me to be interested in that
Washington Highways

by Corco on Dec 4, 2007 11:54 AM PST up reply actions  

Glad to hear it
I mean, im not saying he is the next Willie Mays or something...just feel its a bad time to trade him. Last year he was the top prospect in baseball. Seeing the Tigers so stingy with Maybin, and the Indians stingy with Miller...we should be the same way with Adam.

Instead we're getting rumors about Jones. The above two examples have mostly ended conversations when those two names were brought up. Im getting scared.

Come on January!

by Slica on Dec 4, 2007 12:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Bedard
# The Orioles and Dodgers may be close on a deal that will send left-hander Erik Bedard to Los Angeles, a baseball source said. The O's are in need of a center fielder and a closer who can play at the major league level, and the Dogders seem willing to part with outfielder Matt Kemp and reliever Jonathan Broxton, who could come in a close in lieu of Chris Ray, out for the year after Tommy John surgery. "They want Bedard bad," said the source.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3140986&name=winter_meetings

by sammy on Dec 4, 2007 12:21 PM PST reply actions  

Couldn't we match this?
This just means were not, right?

by Robert on Dec 4, 2007 12:24 PM PST up reply actions  

With what?
Balentien and Morrow?
When life gives you scurvy, make lemonade.

by Mariner John on Dec 4, 2007 5:30 PM PST up reply actions  

There is a report
that the ANGELS have jumped into Santana talks.

Johan Santana.

:|

by Slica on Dec 4, 2007 12:33 PM PST reply actions  

Is it just a pissing match?
First the talk of Detroit going after D-TRain and Carbrera.

Now we hear the Angels going after Santana.

Then we hear Bedard is the Dodgers target.

Sound like a bunch of front office executives playing "one up."

Go Fo Broke!

by eknpdx on Dec 4, 2007 12:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Peter Gammons...
(I cant stand him)

Apparently said the Red Sox and Twins are finalizing a deal (though I heard this last night, too)...after the Red Sox threw Ryan Kalish in.

This sucks. I dont want Boston or the Angels to get him. Im actually rooting for the YANKEES to get Johan Santana. Baseball is ruined.

by Slica on Dec 4, 2007 12:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Can we just get the Santana and Cabrera trades
done with already so other teams can be involved in stuff?

by Matthew on Dec 4, 2007 1:01 PM PST reply actions  

Is there a reason these people can't multitask?
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 1:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Ah
I get it. That way, if you make all the stupid trades you're going to make immediately after Santana is traded, may people won't pay attention. GENIUS!!! Beltre and Cash for Zito it is!!!!!!
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 1:17 PM PST up reply actions  

read:maybe
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 1:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Why do people think Beltre is being traded?
Bavasi's smarter than he gets credit for.
When life gives you scurvy, make lemonade.

by Mariner John on Dec 4, 2007 5:32 PM PST up reply actions  

We don't.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 10:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Hmmph
Gammons says the Marlins and Angels are "serious about moving Cabrera to the Angels."  The current rumor: Howie Kendrick, Nick Adenhart, Jeff Mathis, and one other prospect.

by Garces on Dec 4, 2007 1:03 PM PST up reply actions  

as far as getting talent out of LAA
I like this package. Mainly because it doesn't feature Ervin Santana as a main piece.

by Matthew on Dec 4, 2007 1:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Agreed.
I got tired of people pretending Santana and Willits have considerable value.

I still don't see the appeal of Mathis, though.

by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 4, 2007 1:14 PM PST up reply actions  

He had a killer AAA
at 22 and some competent years prior to that. Anaheim minor league parks inflate stats, hasn't done squat the last couple years, every other argument against him etc. He is still a solid defensive catcher who has shown good offensive output and is still pretty young. Mathis won't be a sticking point for the Angels because they have Napoli, but I would consider him essential in any trade to florida
Don't listen to their lies, Bill! Look at the sparkly ERA! Sparkly sparkly! - McCovey Chronicles

by Trenchtown2 on Dec 4, 2007 2:06 PM PST up reply actions  

LAAoA
Gammons is reporting a likely deal of Kendrick, Adenhart, Mathis, and X for Cabrera.  Cabrera is an amazing hitter, and supposedly 15 pounds less doughy, but that is a lot to give up.

by david h on Dec 4, 2007 1:05 PM PST reply actions  

"LAAoA"
I make that noise when I beat my head into the wall this time of year.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 1:09 PM PST up reply actions  

what really annoys me
as a seattle --> socal transplant is that the angels arent even in los angeles COUNTY, much less the city.

i will forever derogatorily refer to them as the anaheim angels of anaheim.

PS. anaheim sucks. i drive through that piece of shit four times a month on my way from san diego to LA. i have never once been tempted to stop.

by seattlebruin on Dec 4, 2007 1:20 PM PST up reply actions  

X is Kendry Morales
Mike Jacobs and Aaron Boone do not make a 1st baseman on anything other then a last place team. Angels already have Kotchman so I doubt it is a sticking point for them
Don't listen to their lies, Bill! Look at the sparkly ERA! Sparkly sparkly! - McCovey Chronicles

by Trenchtown2 on Dec 4, 2007 1:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Baker is reporting that
the M's did NOT offer Kuroda 4/44. So at least that's something.

by sammy on Dec 4, 2007 1:13 PM PST reply actions  

I think he said "probably did not offer"
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 1:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Now that Guillien is in KC
He really needs to not show up on Rotoworld anymore.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 1:16 PM PST reply actions  

speaking of dead deals
why were the Brewers hot after Scott Rolen in the first place? Were they going to move Braun to the OF?

by Matthew on Dec 4, 2007 1:19 PM PST reply actions  

Brewers
I know they've got a hitters park, but does LF defense matter?  I didn't get the impression Braun was all that quick, and his arm was mainly adequate for 3B.
Go Fo Broke!

by eknpdx on Dec 4, 2007 1:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Braun was ghastly at 3B
I don't know the particulars of the ballpark, but LF is further down the defensive spectrum than 3B, so moving Braun to the outfield is the right idea.

by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 4, 2007 1:29 PM PST up reply actions  

The Cardinals are trying to give him away
because he hates TLR.

BTW, the Cardinals are going to lose 140 games next year, 150 if they trade Rolen for Bill Hall. :|

"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Dec 4, 2007 1:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Rolen for Hall makes them worse?
When life gives you scurvy, make lemonade.

by Mariner John on Dec 4, 2007 5:33 PM PST up reply actions  

If Hall doesn't lap Rolen with the bat
it is, because he is a butcher on defense. But for the money saved it's ok. I just really like Rolen and I don't want to see him run out of town by TLR. LaRussa is completely wrong for this team.
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Dec 4, 2007 6:23 PM PST up reply actions  

so there appears to be at least some tepid
interest out there for Broussard, but nobody wants to make a deal because they all think he'll be non-tendered.

Wouldn't it behoove you then, if you were Seattle, to offer arb to Broussard to show you're not non-tendering him, and then just trade him?

Naturally, what they will do is cut him loose for nothing.

by Matthew on Dec 4, 2007 1:30 PM PST reply actions  

Yahoo!'s Jeff Passan says Lopez is available
LL's Jeff Sullivan isn't the least bit surprised.

by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 4, 2007 1:55 PM PST reply actions  

Of course he's available,
and they'll throw in his doghouse too.
I overvalue prospects

by Thingray on Dec 4, 2007 1:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Lopez + Wlad + Morrow
could be a pretty interesting package for a SP. Not sure who though.

I'm actually warm to the idea of Loretta, who should come short and cheap, can field decently well, and hits ok and if parting with Lopez means a goodly SP in return, go for it. Keep Jones and Clement at nearly all costs. We need those two.

by Matthew on Dec 4, 2007 2:00 PM PST up reply actions  

What are we going to do with Clement?
And I mean that Q honestly, since everyone seems to have a different answer
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 2:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Who knows
but I would like to see him stay in Seattle.

by Matthew on Dec 4, 2007 2:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, me too.
Ideally he would be DH, right? I mean, if we pretend Bavasi/McLaren don't exist.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 2:06 PM PST up reply actions  

in 2008?
No, he would be catching in Tacoma full-time to start 2008

by Matthew on Dec 4, 2007 2:09 PM PST up reply actions  

No, any year
I assume that Johjima is staying beyond 08, which wouldn't leave a spot for Clement.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 2:13 PM PST up reply actions  

I hope so.
Re-signing Joh should be high on the priorities list right now IMO.

by Patrick517 on Dec 4, 2007 2:27 PM PST up reply actions  

That's what I'm wondering
I assume we want to resign Johjima, so where does Clement go? He'll be the catcher in AAA, so we couldn't put him at first in 09 very easily.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 2:28 PM PST up reply actions  

FWIW
I would've had him working on his 1B play this off-season.  

by Patrick517 on Dec 4, 2007 2:36 PM PST up reply actions  

the only problem there
his bat behind the dish makes him the allstar we thought we were getting with the #3 pick. At first base his bat is slightly above average, at best.

by CKel on Dec 4, 2007 2:43 PM PST up reply actions  

No it bloody well shouldn't
He's good, but he's not that good, and he's going to be old.

by Graham MacAree on Dec 4, 2007 2:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm with you on this, Graham.
After next season Kenji should be thanked for his service to the Mariners, and then shown the door.
I reject your reality and substitute my own!

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Dec 4, 2007 2:55 PM PST up reply actions  

No it shouldn't.
Kenji's getting older and worse.  An exstension of Johjima is just along the Howard Lincoln and Chuck Armstrong line of thinking...and it's just not a good idea.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.

by BrettJMiller on Dec 4, 2007 3:09 PM PST up reply actions  

are we talking likely or idea?
likely - yes
ideal - unlikely. I'd approach Johjima with an extension offer to see what he feels, but no way I lock him up past 2010.

by Matthew on Dec 4, 2007 2:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Is he tradable right now?
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 2:58 PM PST up reply actions  

In theory, yes
but it's never going to happen.

by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 4, 2007 3:00 PM PST up reply actions  

True
I would assume they would put Burke there full time with a much younger, healthier, but not very good back up that can play twice a week (>>>>>Rivera) until he either is ready this year or until 2009.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 3:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Is Clement our future at C?
He seems kinda old to still be learning the position.

by Patrick517 on Dec 4, 2007 3:29 PM PST up reply actions  

But you keep reading and see
Where Passan says that Lopez is also a non-tender candidate. So his information is not exactly accurate.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 2:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Passan is an idiot
he calls Lopez "a possible non-tender"

by Matthew on Dec 4, 2007 2:01 PM PST up reply actions  

too slow, yo
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 2:02 PM PST up reply actions  

With Bavasi
I wouldn't be completely surprised, but I would be surprised to some extent, and pissed off.

by chrisisasavage on Dec 4, 2007 3:29 PM PST up reply actions  

He can't be non-tendered.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 3:31 PM PST up reply actions  

its not a bad idea
i don't think anyone here has floated the idea of sending him somewhere for a starter. But M's seem out of patience with him, and he would be a good piece to couple with, say, Sherrill and Rob Johnson for a package that ought to net a major league ready #3 or so.

Personally, I'm split. I don't think he'll really develop further, but that's not based on any baseball acumen. The only harm in seeing if something will click during the next season is his value may be nil by the end of it, but its not like he'll keep the M's from contending if he sucks.

by Bearskin Rugburn on Dec 4, 2007 2:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think his value is that high now.
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 2:04 PM PST up reply actions  

You mean: LL!'s
Or, more appropriately, LL?!?!'s
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 1:58 PM PST reply actions  

Oh, PHEW! The reply works
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 1:58 PM PST up reply actions  

What about:
Morrow, Lopez and Sexson (eat part of contract)
for
(Lincecum or Cain) + Durham?
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 2:20 PM PST reply actions  

On which end
Our list is not good enough, yeah?
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 2:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Okay
Morrow, Lopez and Sexson (eat part of contract) + Wlad

for

Lincecum + Durham + Vinnie Chulk (Older player)

I'm just making that up - but of all the rumors, Giants have been repeated for Sexson (supposedly because of his power bat) and now Lopez. Wlad gives them the younger player they keep claiming they need  and Morrow semi-replaces Lincecum.

Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 2:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Bill Bavasi for Brian Sabean + Cash
Jose Vidro (DH - Ms) was arrested today in an Idaho Bathroom for having a wide stance and sucking.

by CapSea on Dec 4, 2007 2:41 PM PST up reply actions  

*vomit*
When life gives you scurvy, make lemonade.

by Mariner John on Dec 4, 2007 5:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Please no more Ray Durham love
The guy is donnnne.  He has out-coraed Joey Cora in his collapse this season.

by Paytheline on Dec 4, 2007 3:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Why
attempt to trade Lopez when his value is a bit low?

by Slica on Dec 4, 2007 2:25 PM PST reply actions  

Jesus!
Maybin, Miller, and FOUR MORE PROSPECTS

for Cabrera probably...

That's so MUCH

Washington Highways

by Corco on Dec 4, 2007 3:15 PM PST reply actions  

Don't buy into it yet
the White Sox think they've got Cabrera too.

by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 4, 2007 3:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Little do they all know
that it is actually I who own Cabrera. I purchased his soul 2 years ago for some Ho-Hos and Twinkies.

by Matthew on Dec 4, 2007 3:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Yesterday
the Nippon Ham Fighters thought they had a deal with the Marlins for Cabrera too.

by G_ on Dec 4, 2007 3:20 PM PST up reply actions  

n/s
I reject your reality and substitute my own!

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Dec 4, 2007 3:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah
but assuming DET's prospects are any good

Maybin + Miller +4 Prospects >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Danks + Fields + GioGone

Washington Highways

by Corco on Dec 4, 2007 3:19 PM PST up reply actions  

MLB.com reporting?
MLB.com usually is very careful to tag "rumors" when appropriate.
Go Fo Broke!

by eknpdx on Dec 4, 2007 3:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Well damn
The first day of the winter meetings came and went without a blockbuster move. What will the second day in Nashville bring? Stay tuned.

All times ET 6:20 p.m., from Peter Gammons
* The Tigers have won the Miguel Cabrera sweepstakes. Detroit will get Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis for six players -- Cameron Maybin, Andrew Miller, catcher Mike Rabelo and three minor league prospects.

by Garces on Dec 4, 2007 3:33 PM PST up reply actions  

New strategy vs Detroit
Forfeit, save your pitchers, take 9-0 loss.

by Gomez on Dec 4, 2007 3:32 PM PST up reply actions  

They did very well for themselves
even though I agree with Matthew that they might've been able to get more by trading Cabrera and Willis separately.

by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 4, 2007 3:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know about Willis
He was getting a ton of "declining each year" criticism by the mainstream media for a while now.

It's possible the Marlins already knew his value and didn't want to risk it diminishing further.

Go Fo Broke!

by eknpdx on Dec 4, 2007 3:45 PM PST up reply actions  

So then
Is it more like Cabrera for Miller, Maybin, and top live arm from the farm, with Willis for the other players and covering the contracts?
Go Fo Broke!

by eknpdx on Dec 4, 2007 3:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Peavy's getting 3 years and $52M
tacked on with a team option for a 4th year at an additional 18M

by Matthew on Dec 4, 2007 4:07 PM PST reply actions  

Did he get the NT clause
he was asking for?
"Kruger! My son tells me, your company shtinks!"-Frank Costanza.

by Coach Owens on Dec 4, 2007 4:14 PM PST up reply actions  

That's a very reasonable contract
for a perennial Cy Young candidate.
I reject your reality and substitute my own!

by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Dec 4, 2007 4:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Reasonable?
That's an absolute steal.

by Aaron @ Lookout Landing on Dec 4, 2007 8:06 PM PST up reply actions  

And a surprise
since I thought Peavy was a goner after '09.

by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 4, 2007 8:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Whoa
I thought Bedard was way younger than he is.  He's already 28.  I don't know but I thought he was more like 24 or 25.

by Edgar for Pres on Dec 4, 2007 9:02 PM PST reply actions  

As long as we're talking a bit about Lincecum
There's a short article looking at his PITCHf/x data at THT today.  Of the 178 changeups in the data set, only 5 went for hits - 4 singles and a double.  Impressive.

by david h on Dec 4, 2007 9:09 PM PST reply actions  

There are two pitches that have made me
get goosebumps.
  1.  Felix's curve, 2005, at cheney.  The scouts were literally laughing watching people fish for it.  A bunch of guys who'd seen everything and everyone, and they're leaning forward, smiling, shaking their heads.   You could hear the break on that.  He wasn't allowed to throw his slider back then, but even when people knew the yakker was coming, they couldn't hit it.
  2.  Lincecum's change-up, 2007, at cheney.  I've never seen anything like it.  A splitter?  There was so much movement I simply didn't believe it was a change.  

by marc w on Dec 5, 2007 10:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Still sad I missed that game.
But doesn't the changeup minimize injury risk?  
"I restore a sense of childlike wonder to people's lives; you give them Zunes and Vista." -- Fake Steve Jobs to Borg employees

by PositivePaul on Dec 5, 2007 11:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Via Baker
There are other rumors involving the M's we haven't touched on here, but the ones I'm talking about now have the potential to have the biggest impact. Yes, the M's will have to find another outfielder if they trade Jones. Yes, they talked to the agent for Geoff Jenkins today. A lot of talk. We could start seeing action in the next day or two.

Geoff Jenkins!

by Robert on Dec 4, 2007 11:42 PM PST reply actions  

We're also front runners for Bedard
<quote>So, that's it for now. I can tell you the Mariners appear to be salivating over the chance to land Bedard. They also appear to have a better-than-decent shot at getting him.</quote>

Take it for what it's worth, but it's just what Baker heard.  I'm excited.

Hopefully this doesn't become last year's Hudson/LaRoche turning into Ho/Vidro.  I'd hate to see Adam Jones Full Time/Bedard turn into Kuroda/Jenkins...even though I like Jenkins.

Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.

by BrettJMiller on Dec 5, 2007 12:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Bedarad is the only player available
that I'd consider trading Jones for.
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron

by JI on Dec 5, 2007 12:22 AM PST up reply actions  

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