A Challenge
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 20, 2007 11:40 PM PST
in Seattle Mariners News, Regular
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PrintLet's cut through all the bullshit for a minute.
-Carlos Silva is an average pitcher, and nothing more
-Carlos Silva is an improvement
-Carlos Silva's contract isn't a good one
-Carlos Silva's contract isn't going to cripple the team on its own
There. This isn't a genius way of addressing a roster that we all want to see contend next year, but it's better than trading nigh everything we have in the upper levels for two years of Erik Bedard (which, granted, may still happen). So it could've been worse.
With that out of the way...
In 2008, the Mariners will be paying ~$51m to the likes of Richie Sexson, Carlos Silva, Jarrod Washburn, Miguel Batista, and Jose Vidro.
Identify any other non-Yankees teams who will be spending that much (gross or by proportion) on such a thoroughly mediocre group of players, and report back on how well they're doing.
Use this as your salary resource.
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Why just baseball?
Favor the Bold
You're right.
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 21, 2007 1:13 AM PST up reply actions
Jerome James
Foyle and Brian Grant in the NBA say hi
by kentroyals5 on Dec 21, 2007 10:00 AM PST up reply actions
Any white boy who wins a McDonald's
by bpdawg24 on Dec 21, 2007 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
It's a tough one
Delgado, who did not put up great numbers last year at .258/.333/.448 ($16M)
Pedro Martinez, injured most of '07 with poor numbers in '06 ($11M)
Moises Alou, in his age 41 year, can only play half the time even if he does hit .341/.392/.524 like he did last year ($7.5M)
Orlando Hernandez ($6.5M), increasing his walks from '06 to '07 despite about 10 fewer IP, in his age 42 season according to BBReferece.
Luis Castillo ($6M), who had a lower OPS in '07 than our own Jose "Turbo" Vidro.
That rounds out to $50M, which is close to the M's fab five, but I'm not sure what to make of Alou's half-time and Pedro's injuries.
by tworsandtwols on Dec 21, 2007 1:14 AM PST reply actions
Delgado was plan A for Sexson, but...
Sexson's going to be given $14M this year and his deal is done.
Delgado's OPS, last 3 yrs: .981, .909, .781
Sexson's: .910, .842, .694
In retrospect, whose deal do you take?
by tworsandtwols on Dec 21, 2007 1:12 PM PST up reply actions
That doesn't really tell the whole story
I'd much rather have Delgado. Especially with his being a lefty.
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 21, 2007 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
//Channels Vada Sultenfuss...
by PositivePaul on Dec 21, 2007 8:52 AM PST up reply actions
ChiSox
Some are debateable. Buehrle isn't that great, Thome is old and injury prone, Dye is declining, Contreras sucks and AJ isn't that great.
The answer: not well.
Tigers:
Rodriguez (13), Guillen (12), Willis (6.45), Rogers (8), Jones (7), Inge (6.2), total of 52
Pudge is declining, Guillen doesn't hold as much value at 1st IMO, Willis sucks, Rogers is old and injury prone, Jones isn't that great and Inge is all D and likely a backup now.
The answer: Better than us
Giants:
Zito (14.5), Rowand (~12), Winn (8), Durham (7.5), Roberts (6.5) for ~48.5. You could add in Vizquel and Molina and take out Rowand for about the same figure
Result: shit
Angels:
Anderson (12), Garland (12), Matthews (9), Speier (4.75), Figgins (4.75), Shields (4.25) for 46.75
This one is pretty arguable, I'll admit, but you could potentially argue for Hunter being included.
Result: Better than us
Dodgers:
Schmidt (12), Kuroda (12 (including 7 mill bonus)), Kent (11.5), Garciaparra (8.5), Pierre (8) for 52
Result: probably the same or slightly better
So that's 5 teams that have about the same collection of talent for the same price, with two doing well because of good investments and prospects, two doing poorly for shitty investments and one doing average. Texas is in this field in 09 with Young's deal starting and Houston, Philly and the Cubs are in the periphery
That was probably more work than it was worth. Don't be too harsh.
I thought about SF
by tworsandtwols on Dec 21, 2007 2:02 AM PST up reply actions
Paying for star level production is not a problem
The Seattle group is the worst.
Thome? Rowand? Figgins? Guillen?
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 21, 2007 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
Like I said
by Mariner John on Dec 22, 2007 1:23 AM PST up reply actions
The Cubs spring to mind immediately.
by TIF @ Lookout Landing on Dec 21, 2007 6:00 AM PST reply actions
I am getting used to being mocked
"Well, it occurs to me that if Silva is worth ... worth ... forty ... I can't even type it into my laptop. My hands shake. Anyway, if he got that much, then Johan Santana's value just shot out of the stratosphere and into orbit."
by KC @ Lookout Landing on Dec 21, 2007 6:00 AM PST reply actions
Anybody know
Is this just a matter of Notre Dame hype and the fact that the Cubs had to pry him away from football? I have to give him credit for one thing, though: He has an amazingly ridiculous fan website.
The Mariners must make
Ridiculous
At first I thought he was talking about Bedard, but after rereading this he was indeed talking about Silva. A man with a career opponent batting average of .299 "gets American League hitters out." A guy who the league hit .324 against (with a 5.94 ERA) in 2006, "gets American League hitters out."
GIVE ME A BREAK!!!
Here's a good breakdown of how the M's rotation compares to the league avg: http://marinerlog.blogspot.com/2007/12/whats-good.html
by PP on Dec 21, 2007 8:55 AM PST reply actions
Maybe he just meant
Even better!
We wanted to add some power to the rotation.
Silva. Power.
One of those things is NOT like the other...
by PositivePaul on Dec 21, 2007 9:01 AM PST up reply actions
Power!
by PP on Dec 21, 2007 9:09 AM PST reply actions
Okay, how about Boston?
Varitek: 9m
Julio Lugo:9m
Dice K: 8m (not counting posting fees)
Then you add the bench and some so-so guys:
Covelli (!) Crisp: 4.75m (great defense, but expensive for a glove) Alex Cora: 2m.
Then after that I'm realizing it's not as bad as it looked at first glance. Still, some of those contracts would kill other teams.
I think the posting fee should count for DiceK
I don't care if it "comes from a different budget" or whatever, Daisuke cost the Sox 103M for a 5 year contract.
I agree, it should be taken into consideration.
Posting fee
Drew: 14m
Varitek: 9m
Lugo: 9m
Dice-K: 18m
Which adds up to a nice round 50 million for those 4 players. Unfortunately, when you add in Dice-K's posting fee, the Sox are spending like $160 million next year, so you take away that $50 mil and you're left with roughly the M's payroll. When you've got that kind of money to throw around, you can afford more mistakes.
Hmmm
$13m to Tejada
$6.25m to Woody Williams
$5m to Kaz Matsui
That's much less than the M's have tied up in mediocrity, but their payroll is lower (not THAT much lower) and that's pretty damned mediocre.
St.L have:
$12m to Scott Rolen
$10.5m to Chris Carpenter
$6.5m to Juan Encarnacion
$6.5m to Mark Mulder
$5m to Joel Pineiro
$3.5m to Adam Kennedy
$2.3m to Player A
$2.25m to Ryan Franklin
That's a total of $48.55 for a bunch of ex-stars and ex-M's, out of a total payroll of $90.3m (2007 figure). That's well over 50%, whereas the M's total is just shy of that.
Cardinals 'win.'
I know : (
That's pretty good.
The bottom line being, bad teams have money tied up in mediocre players.
by Jeff Sullivan on Dec 21, 2007 11:15 AM PST up reply actions
oh yeah, Texas
Padilla: 11
Blalock: 6
Young: 5 (jumps to 16 next year for the next 4! hahaha)
Cat: 4
Broussard: 4
that's nearly 40M of their 70M payroll. You know, frankly all of Texas is pretty mediocre.
Michael Young
by Graham MacAree on Dec 21, 2007 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
His salary ~ Ichiro's salary
hehehe
Worst contract in the division.
Barry Zito.
This seems like it needs a new entry.
If a player just sucks (Zito)
Disagree.
Was he that bad before he was injured?
That's WITH the A-Rod subsidy coming off the books
2006 was the luckyest season ever
The thing about the Cards though
Whatever's left of Scott Rolen will still be getting paid, as will Mulder/Encarnacion/Carpenter, all of whom are coming off of serious injuries.
Then, you've got the escalators on Pineiro's deal (mmmphrphHA HA HA HA!) and another year of Franklin.
Wow. They better hope Reyes figures some shit out, that Rasmus is ready quickly and that Ankiel's fairy tale isn't over.
Encarnacion is (literally) finished. Can't see.
I thought I'd heard that but didn't know if it
What's up with Mulder? Any word on how his second rotator cuff surgery went?
You've got a lot of faith in CC, which is fine - and yes, TJ surgery is generally easier to recover from (somewhere Jesse Foppert is banging his head against a wall), but I'm not sure about a guy who's got both a surgically repaired shoulder AND elbow. He may in fact return some value in 08, but the fact that he's under contract for three more years would really scare me.
I've lived through the mark Mulder
Encarnacion is (literally) finished. Can't see. ??
Line drive to the face.
Here we go:
On August 31, Encarnacion was struck in the face by a foul ball hit by Aaron Miles while he was on the on-deck circle. Encarnacion suffered multiple fractures to his left eye socket and an injury to his left eye and missed the remainder of the 2007 season. [7] The injury was regarded by the Cardinals' head team physician, Dr. George Paletta, to be the the worst injury he'd ever seen to the face on a baseball player. The future of Encarnacion's career is unknown and could be in serious jeopardy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Encarnacion
Damn!!
He has one hell of a wiki entry
I do wish him the best, (even though getting him out of RF really helps the team).
He needs to learn to duck:
About the funds....
by PositivePaul on Dec 21, 2007 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
It's worse
$4.25 to Tony LaRussa
$3.5 to Braden Looper
That bumps the total closer to $50m.
Yeah
3.5 to Braden Looper isn't a terrible deal. Or is he hurt or something?
just plain sucks
Not a bad deal, but there are guys just like him in the minors that can suck for free. He's their Chris Reitsma.
He's been solid out of the pen
Have you seen that rotation?
He did?
125 ERA+, 3.33 FIP, fairly standard LOB%. That's pretty good. Maybe not amazing, but I'd take that.
He gave up a lot of hits
Giving up a lot of hits
Low K's, low walks, GB tendencies, not a bad contract... again, I don't think it's a crippler, and I don't think he sucked in 2006.
He wasn't good in 2007, but for 3.5m, he's not exactly the problem.
I can't figure out what the Astros are doing.
And wow, the Cards really are throwing a good chunk of their payroll at bad and/or questionable players.
We think we have it bad, but there are many people in other cities who have to feel the same way. Of course, even Yankee and BoSox fans are never happy.
They are in complete win now mode.
Win now??
They already have Woody Williams.
Actually, with their home park,
ZOMG LETS SWITCH PARKS
by JI on Dec 21, 2007 1:32 PM PST up reply actions
I have some gripes about Safeco,
Well, I found a team that's pretty close
Milwaukee Brewers
Eric Gagne: 10m
Jeff Suppan: 8m
Jason Kendall: 4.25m
Guillermo Mota: 3.2m
Salomon Torres: 3.2m
Craig Counsell: 2.8m
Derrick Turnbow: 3.2m
34.6 m on a team with a payroll around 70 million.
Lets look at mah beloved A's...
Oh wait! Loaiza is gone too!
CF Mark Kotsay $8M
3B Eric Chavez $11M
SS Bobby Crosby $3.5M
Total: $22.5
Ok, so maybe thats not so bad... But if you rewind 1 year, and do it entering the 2007 season...
RP Jay Witasick $1.5M
3B Eric Chavez $9M
CF Mark Kotsay $7M
SS Bobby Crosby $2.5M
SP Esteban Loazia $6M
C1 Jason Kendall $13M
Total: $39
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