A Bunch Of Stuff
I don't know exactly when it happened, but at some point between my childhood and now, I lost the ability to be happy about any improvement the Mariners make, regardless of the shape it takes. This helps me to be more objectively analytical sometimes, but it also robs me of the simple joy that comes whenever you see your favorite team add a new player. I miss that joy. Growing up, I'd look in the little two-inch-by-one-inch "Transactions" column in the sports page every morning to see if the Mariners had brought in a new player, and if they had, I'd spend the rest of the day thinking about how much he might make the team better. Now when the Mariners sign a big name all I can think is "this guy couldn't strike out the queen."
That's good for writing but bad for my emotional health. It's not like I look forward to being negative all the time. And besides, even if you pay $4 for a Coke instead of $0.25 for a sweet, delicious, always-smooth Select cola, in the end at least you still get the Coke, right?
If only Silva weren't so god damn boring.
----------
Carlos Silva claims to have added a splitter. He says he started using it against lefties in the second half last year, and the numbers suggest improvement.
There's a good way and a bad way to look at this:
Good: Silva may not be as bad against lefties as he was in Minnesota, which makes him both a better fit for the park and a better pitcher overall.
Bad: We paid $48m/4yr to someone who's experimenting with his repertoire.
We'll see. Silva was better down the stretch last year, but he's always been a second-half pitcher, so it could also be a bunch of nothing. Still, it's a shot of hope after ten pints of why-me's, so if this is what we need in order to go forward with bright eyes, then dammit, here's to the splitter.
----------
Geoff Baker responded to the Silva/Towers thing in the way that you'd expect of a guy who had front row seats to Josh Towers' 2006 season: he wasn't buying it. It's hard to blame him, because the last time Baker covered the Blue Jays, Towers looked really, really bad. Like, really bad. It's hard to shake that impression.
But guess what? Carlos Silva was bad that year, too. Except Silva lasted basically the whole year in the rotation, while Towers got bumped to AAA (where he was fine).
I'm not interested in innings and quality starts. I'm interested in the things over which a pitcher has direct control; things like strikes and balls and grounders and missed bats and all that good stuff. Josh Towers didn't rack up the innings in '06/'07 because he gave up a lot of runs. That much is obvious. My argument is that he gave up a lot of runs for reasons that weren't his fault.
Let's repeat Wednesday's analysis, except this time let's cut 2005 out of the equation and just go with numbers from the last two years. (Feel free to scroll down if you don't want to read all of this.)
K%
Silva: 9.6% (relief stats removed)
Towers: 14.1% (relief stats removed)
unintentionalBB%
Silva: 3.6% (relief stats removed)
Towers: 4.7% (relief stats removed)
HR%
Silva: 3.6% (relief stats removed)
Towers: 4.7% (relief stats removed)
Strike%
Silva: 65% (relief stats not removed) (I don't have that data)
Towers: 67% (relief stats not removed)
1st pitch strike%
Silva: 65%
Towers: 66%
Swinging strike%
Silva: 9%
Towers: 11%
Line Drive%
Silva: 21%
Towers: 21%
Groundball%
Silva: 46%
Towers: 42%
Flyball%
Silva: 33%
Towers: 37%
HR/FB% (park-adjusted by THT)
Silva: 13%
Towers: 15%
FIP
Silva: 5.04
Towers: 5.48
xFIP
Silva: 4.87
Towers: 4.68
Platoon split
Silva: +.116 OPS vs. lefties
Towers: +.094 OPS vs. lefties
It's the exact same story, only with one difference - over his last 169 innings in the big leagues, Towers has a high home run rate (and so does Silva, only to a lesser extent). This high home run rate has led to a miserable ERA and to the impression that Towers is finished as a useful Major League starter.
I don't need to sit here and lecture you about this. Anyone who reads this website has learned to be skeptical of disproportionately high HR/FB rates. So Towers is at 15% over his last 169 ML innings. Johan Santana was at 16% in 219 innings last year. Felix was at 17%. AJ Burnett, 19%. Derek Lowe, 17%. In 2006, Josh Beckett was at 17%. None other than Carlos Silva was at 18%. Felix, 18%. Ian Snell, 17%. Tim Hudson, 16%. Andy Pettitte, 15%. Dan Haren, 14%.
Home run rates over samples that small don't tell you much of anything about a pitcher's true ability. It could be the Towers is done and has turned into a marshmallow, but it could also be a total fluke. Considering he topped his career average swinging strike rate last year, which seems more likely?
Baker also presents the argument that Towers is just giving up worse balls in play than Silva; that is, the ball is being hit harder against Towers, therefore leading to more balls dropping in.
The equivalent line drive rates between both Towers and Silva seems to go against that suggestion, but better yet, I bring you PMR data. Based on things like batted ball location and velocity, Carlos Silva's "expected" rate of BIP being turned into outs last year was 68.5% (this is under the column 'Predicted DER'). For Josh Towers, it was 67.5%. Silva is better, yes, but only by ~6 hits over a full season. That's not much. The "Towers just gives up screamer after screamer" point doesn't appear to hold much water.
Look, I'm not saying that, everything being equal, I'd take Josh Towers over Carlos Silva. Silva, I think, is the slightly better pitcher, in large part because he's better with men on base. My point is that, if you can present this strong an argument that Pitcher A and Pitcher B are pretty similar, then it doesn't make sense to offer one a huge contract while the other sits at home, freely available. There are questions about Josh Towers going forward, but there are also questions about Carlos Silva, and if this comparison doesn't make you at least a little bit angry, then you, like the Mariners, are still being blinded by ERA and reputation.
----------
"If we add a starter, then he pitches in the bullpen," Bavasi said. "If we don't, then either Brandon or Horacio Ramirez would be the fifth starter. And if it's Ramirez, Morrow would be at the end of the bullpen."
It has been reported that Morrow might begin the 2008 season at Triple-A Tacoma to get more experience as a starter. But the club's first-round pick in the 2006 draft out of the University of California will be in the majors if he stays with the Mariners.
"He's highly, highly unlikely to start in Triple-A," Bavasi said. "We don't feel like that's going to help us."
Some people have a plan for the future. Some people are Bill Bavasi.
0 recs |
42 comments
Comments
Aww... Cheer up Jeff, it's the holidays!
by Thingray on Dec 21, 2007 1:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I know what happens when you assume, but
by InSpokane on Dec 21, 2007 1:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
On the flip side of the coin...
I guess my point is, there's got to be something else that's beyond the stats and scouting (and, of course, individual GM stupidity/gullibility) that can explain why Towers waits by the phone and Silva buys a Venezuelan phone company. Beyond medical reports too -- there might very well be some injury issue that few people know about (and are privvy to). I'm real curious what that is...
by PositivePaul on Dec 21, 2007 1:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Honestly
by Jeff on Dec 21, 2007 1:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In fact
What about shorter deals with lesser pitchers or pitchers coming off injury? Bavasi did not like what he saw in that group, and with spots filled in the rotation, doesn't even like those guys for a fifth spot. He said that what they have in the fifth spot now, what he defined as Ramirez or Morrow, is better than what is left on the free agent market...
Here Bavasi is just demonstrably wrong, but he's not the only GM who looked at Towers' ERA, thought "holy crap!" and looked somewhere else.
They're wrong. They're just...wrong. There's no way to say this without sounding like an arrogant son of a bitch, but when it comes to filling out a rotation, there are an awful lot of executives out there who do it poorly.
by Jeff on Dec 21, 2007 2:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bill, Bill . . . . .
by Paytheline on Dec 21, 2007 3:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bavasi
Or maybe it is the result of myself setting standards too high from months of armchair GMing.
But every more Bavasi makes erodes a huge chunk of my confidence in his abilities as a GM. And comments like those during the Silva press conference just compound things.
In a thread the other day, you mentioned something about how many losses it would take to get Bavasi fired, and if it was worth a step backwards to see a change at the top.
I hate to say this, especially this early in the offseason, but I actually hope that the M's crap out this year if it would result would be a nice new, intelligent GM. This team will never be a consistent contender with such an idiot behind the drivers seat.
by Jerry on Dec 21, 2007 3:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously...
by PositivePaul on Dec 21, 2007 3:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+5
by Patrick517 on Dec 21, 2007 7:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't go that far
But in 2008, if they don't contend, I do kind of hope they fall apart in a way that reflects poorly on the people in charge.
by Jeff on Dec 21, 2007 3:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Would that matter?
The team puts making money first. The product on the field demonstrates that clearly.
I have yet to see an argument as to why the ownership would do things differently. They already have money, and little effort in this team makes them more. It's a very sound investment for them, short and long term.
by eknpdx on Dec 21, 2007 4:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This comes down
Delta hits from BPro: The number of hits above or below average for this pitcher, based on his own number of balls in play and his team's rate of hits (minus home runs) per ball in play; (H-HR) - BIP * (team (H-HR)/BIP). Essentially, the Voros McCracken number. For a team, Delta-H should be zero. Positive numbers signify more hits allowed than expected ("bad luck," if you believe pitchers have nothing to do with the outcome of a BIP), negative numbers mean fewer hits than expected ("good luck").
By delta hits, from BPro, he has been unlucky the last 4 years. 9 unlucky hits in 116 IP, 11 in 208 IP, 11 in 62 IP, 13 in 107 IP, the last 4 years from 2004.
Silva: 12 in 203 IP, 5 in 188 IP, 7 in 180 IP, (-2) in 202 IP.
So, hardline DIPS: Towers was unlucky. MLB talent evaluators appear to not subscribe to hardline DIPS.
by rfloh on Dec 22, 2007 12:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
According to his BIP data
However that's still a win below average. Carlos Silva, meanwhile, was +0.5 wins over average.
by Graham on Dec 22, 2007 12:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, not hit unlucky.
To me, this isn't really about traditional DIPS.
by Jeff on Dec 22, 2007 12:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He was unlucky beyond that too
by Graham on Dec 22, 2007 12:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His regressed numbers don't look that great
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 22, 2007 1:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's bad when I consider a 5 R/9 pitcher
by Graham on Dec 22, 2007 1:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he gave up more hits
It comes down to whether you believe that he has no control over the unlucky hits he gave up, it was all random fluctuation.
by rfloh on Dec 22, 2007 1:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's been hit-unlucky
by Jeff on Dec 22, 2007 2:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't agree
He's pretty unlucky on both counts.
by Graham on Dec 22, 2007 2:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I did not realize that.
by Jeff on Dec 22, 2007 2:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He was giving up more hits
Hardline DIPS says that is luck. MLB talent evaluators do not appear to agree.
by rfloh on Dec 22, 2007 2:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here are
Silva's on contact SLG against last 4 years: 509, 489, 593, 486.
Hitters appear to have made better contact against Towers than they did against Silva.
This could be due to luck, defense, park, various factors etc.
by rfloh on Dec 22, 2007 2:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Being more of a flyball guy
I think hitters do make better contact against Towers than Silva. I do not think, however, that makes him a substantially worse pitcher, especially given the difference in strikeouts.
by Jeff on Dec 22, 2007 2:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What I'm saying
So, DIPS.
by rfloh on Dec 22, 2007 2:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
UGH, wasn't being hit as hard
by rfloh on Dec 22, 2007 2:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
All right, I get it now.
by Jeff on Dec 22, 2007 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
mmm 4 dollar Coke...
by JI on Dec 21, 2007 1:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Throw some Captain in there, and I'm all over it.
by Thingray on Dec 21, 2007 1:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why go with Captain
by BringBackBriley on Dec 21, 2007 4:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Captain = spiced rum
Two different drinks my friend.
by Thingray on Dec 21, 2007 4:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like the fact
by wadswerth on Dec 21, 2007 2:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
This makes me happy too.
A lot of guys add splitters, cut fastballs, knuckle-curves and other pitches in the middle of careers.
by Thingray on Dec 21, 2007 2:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bill's really starting to piss me off
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 21, 2007 5:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
One of the things I find interesting is that although Jeff and Dave Cameron all argue that they would make terrible GM's, the information they use to get to their opinions (that they use on this site) is widely available and widely respected. Sometimes I wonder how Bavasi and Co. don't notice these statistics and give them at least some weight. Do they not use the internet? When they do, do they never search for the term "Mariners"? How are they in the dark in all this.
They even met all of the bloggers. Do they never sign on to read an opinion?
by Librocrat on Dec 21, 2007 7:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OT:Woooooo!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Seattle-Mariners-J-J-Putz-2007-ALL-STAR-Jersey-XL-NEW_W0QQitemZ170179455146QQihZ 007QQcategoryZ24910QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
19 hours left.
by Librocrat on Dec 21, 2007 7:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
On a different note
Also included in the list:
Now Player Acquisition Consultant to Seattle Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, Mat Olkin studied, analyzed, and wrote about baseball players for fifteen years.
I guess I missed that the M's hired this guy a little while ago. I really hope this guy is yelling his head off about Ibanez and Sexson's defense.
by Edgar for Pres on Dec 21, 2007 7:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Hilarity
http://ussmariner.com/2005/01/21/the-ms-stathead/
Written before the 2005 season. DMZ doesn't sound too hot for him, but meh. Here is a gem from the article though:
Now, generally the role of these guys is to pipe up with interesting thoughts on player deals. Like if the M's were thinking about trading for Miguel Batista, he might say "hey look, his K rate sucks. And it's sucked for a while."
by Librocrat on Dec 21, 2007 7:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Horacio Ramirez starting another game as a Mariner
by phil333 on Dec 22, 2007 12:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Erik Bedard
Via Camden Chat blog, MacPhail says Bedard Unlikely to be Traded
Bavasi has said either HoRam or Morrow will be the fifth starter but I don't think he trusts those two as far as he can throw them.
You know what that means...
....say hello to Livan Hernandez. :(
by ThundaPC on Dec 23, 2007 2:41 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

by 












